Commissaires to clamp down on rule violations

Chips Lovell

Planning on racing this season? Announcement from the College of Commissaires today that they'll be clamping down on rule violations. They've highlighted a few issues including road position, kit, dossards etc.

Lumen

I like the fact that shorts are compulsory (and tights therefore illegal), even in February.

Has Raam been drafted in as style consultant?

fondriest

As long as the comms are consistant it'll be grand , I had a comm threaten to stop me riding a race last year because I had my numbers cut down, which is fine and he was 100% right . To then watch him go over to one of the more well known A1 riders and look at his numbers which were much more trimmed down than mine and have a laugh with him about it , that really pissed me off . Double standards are a bitch.

Darkglasses

Not a racer here but I would have liked if they were as specific about anti-littering as they are in sleeve length and sock height issues.

Oryx

Why do they have the long sleeve short leg rule?

lennymc

Darkglasses wrote: »

Not a racer here but I would have liked if they were as specific about anti-littering as they are in sleeve length and sock height issues.

It disgusts me to see people littering when they are cycling, especially when they are in a race, organised by the local club, who are relying on the goodwill and support of the locals who live on the very course they are racing on. Grrrrrr

Lumen

Oryx wrote: »

Why do they have the long sleeve short leg rule?

Comes from UCI rules governing public decency.

Oryx

Lumen wrote: »

Comes from UCI rules governing public decency.

Seems a bit odd, as rules go. And seeing as Im here asking stupid questions anyway, what is a dossard? (Google did not help)

buffalo

Oryx wrote: »

Seems a bit odd, as rules go. And seeing as Im here asking stupid questions anyway, what is a dossard? (Google did not help)

My handy Chrome definition extension claims: One of many derisive terms used to describe a rider that never takes a turn at the front, but always allows himself to be pulled along by the other riders.

But I suspect it's Vlad's fancy word for numbers.

Oryx

Ah! Dossard = dosser! I get it.

Orion

Oryx wrote: »

Why do they have the long sleeve short leg rule?

It doesn't say long-sleeved - just not sleeveless. Are short-sleeved ones not allowed?

Chips Lovell

Although they didn't mention it today, knee socks are also prohibited.

Harrybelafonte

Orion wrote: »

It doesn't say long-sleeved - just not sleeveless. Are short-sleeved ones not allowed?

i.e. No triathletes.

Wishbone Ash

Oryx wrote: »

Why do they have the long sleeve short leg rule?

The requirement is that the jersey must have sleeves - not necessarily long sleeves.

daragh_

I hope A4's are now prohibited from chucking Bidons pre 'sprint'.

AstraMonti

Is there any true reasoning for allowing only shorts? It's very weird, if they have been out cycling in February they ll see how nice and purples your knees become in 5C.

Eamonnator

AstraMonti wrote: »

Is there any true reasoning for allowing only shorts? It's very weird, even they have been out cycling in February they ll see how nice and purples your knees become in 5C.

From my reading of the notice, tights or knee warders are allowed "where weather conditions make them appropriate for the safety or health of the rider."

Beasty

Maybe the rules date from a time before lycra tights became the cold weather gear of choice - I don't know but perhaps there was a risk of loose leggings catching in the chain

On the sleeves/covered shoulder point, I know they require 2 layers at Manchester velodrome (as well as track mits), as I understand it to afford some protection from friction burns in the event of a fall.

GMCI

Darkglasses wrote: »

Not a racer here but I would have liked if they were as specific about anti-littering as they are in sleeve length and sock height issues.

Littering can be penalised under the same penalty as the public urination, "act that offends public decency" I think its called. I do believe it is going to be targeted also this year.

I agree with what happens with the double standards at times. I do know though that the Commissaires are getting much stricter than ever before. Before there was a lot of stuff that a blind eye was turned to for the development of the sport and to keep people on their bikes.
Now with cycling being so popular, a much harder line has to be taken to protect the image of the sport as it is perceived by the general public and also by the cycling community themselves, hence the triathlon clothing issues.
The clothing stuff may seem trivial, but it all contributes towards general discipline throughout the entire sport. Pay attention to your own actions rather than looking around at other peoples actions and causing an accident.

ROK ON

I think many folks will have a little laugh when they read the reference to tri athletes.

I must say however that it is in very poor form IMHO.
It seeks to highlight differences.
Why was it deemed insufficient simply to say that all racers must wear a short sleeved club or plain jersey. Sleeveless and long sleeve jerseys are prohibited and you will not be allowed to race wearing one.

I think this is symptomatic of an organisation that is very simply incapable of communicating with stakeholders. Given the case of triathletes, why not go further and remind our MTB riders that race at a level where baggies are de rigeur that Lycra shorts must be worn on the road?

Very poor form.

GMCI

ROK ON wrote: »

I think many folks will have a little laugh when they read the reference to tri athletes.

I must say however that it is in very poor form IMHO.
It seeks to highlight differences.
Why was it deemed insufficient simply to say that all racers must wear a short sleeved club or plain jersey. Sleeveless and long sleeve jerseys are prohibited and you will not be allowed to race wearing one.

I think this is symptomatic of an organisation that is very simply incapable of communicating with stakeholders. Given the case of triathletes, why not go further and remind our MTB riders that race at a level where baggies are de rigeur that Lycra shorts must be worn on the road?

Very poor form.

I don't agree with you one bit. The document was compiled based on the experiences of Commissaires throughout the 2013 season and beyond. One thing that is very apparent when dealing with Road Racing cyclists is that every little detail has to be spelt out because the slightest omission of clarity leads to excuses of misinterpretation and I know Commissaires will not have the time to enter into debate with ANY athlete on race day about what he can and cannot wear. Its being realistic as riders generally do not know the rules of the sport in which they are participating. To see riders pinning numbers to their chest early in 2013 says it all.

I find it funny that you are complaining through a thread that is based on a communication with the stakeholders from Cycling Ireland, that they are actually incapable.

wirelessdude01

Short sleeved rule is ridiculous. Surely long sleeved club/plain jerseys should be allowed. Really should be the cyclist choice what to choose.

Beasty

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Short sleeved rule is ridiculous. Surely long sleeved club/plain jerseys should be allowed. Really should be the cyclist choice what to choose.

Where does it say short sleeved only? It simply says jerseys must have sleeves - long sleeves are fine

Lumen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Short sleeved rule is ridiculous. Surely long sleeved club/plain jerseys should be allowed. Really should be the cyclist choice what to choose.

There's no rule against long sleeved jerseys.

Eamonnator

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Short sleeved rule is ridiculous. Surely long sleeved club/plain jerseys should be allowed. Really should be the cyclist choice what to choose.

Where does it say, that the sleeves have to be short?

Diarmuid

ROK ON wrote: »

Why was it deemed insufficient simply to say that all racers must wear a short sleeved club or plain jersey. Sleeveless and long sleeve jerseys are prohibited and you will not be allowed to race wearing one.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Short sleeved rule is ridiculous. Surely long sleeved club/plain jerseys should be allowed. Really should be the cyclist choice what to choose.

Guys you might want to read the rules before you start complaining about them

Cycling Ireland rules for Road Racing wrote:

Chapter T5 Article 2
1. All riders shall when racing, wear a jersey with sleeves and a pair of shorts, possibly in the form of a one piece. By shorts it is understood that these come above the knees. Jerseys without sleeves shall be forbidden. It is also forbidden to wear non-essential items of clothing other than where weather conditions make them appropriate for the safety or health and safety of the rider.

Diarmuid

SNAP!

ROK ON

@GMCI
I would take a different view.
I have no issue at all with the enforcement of a jersey rule. My point is that notification of that rule in no way needed to mention tri athletes. It could be interpreted that athletes coming in from other sporting cultures are somehow in need of a cultural rebooting.

There is no reason whatsoever to state clearly that a racing jersey must have sleeves, and sleeveless jerseys are prohibited. That statement is clear and unambiguous. If you can't see that then I won't be able to persuade you.

ROK ON

Diarmuid
You have referred to the actual rules.
My point refers to the email sent out today to license holders.

While reminder emails highlighting the rules are welcome and necessary, my issue is the highlighting of tri athletes is IMHO poor form and potentially counterproductive. Once the rule has been highlighted and other explanation is simply unnecessary.

GMCI

ROK ON wrote: »

Diarmuid
You have referred to the actual rules.
My point refers to the email sent out today to license holders.

While reminder emails highlighting the rules are welcome and necessary, my issue is the highlighting of tri athletes is IMHO poor form and potentially counterproductive. Once the rule has been highlighted and other explanation is simply unnecessary.

It was defined and clarified in as much detail as it was because the sport of triathlon is so closely linked to road racing compared to any other sporting culture, that the subtle differences needed to be highlighted. Your right though, I don't see how I could be persuaded to your way of thinking as I think it is necessary. One are that isn't mentioned in the document that has cropped up in relation to triathlons is people purchasing TT bikes that are designed for triathlons and then failing the bike checks at TT Nationals Championships. Another subtle difference that leads to some very expensive errors by some people. So the need to highlight the subtle difference had to be made as nobody from outside the sport would actively seek to read the rules relative to the sport.

couerdelion

GMCI wrote: »

It was defined and clarified in as much detail as it was because the sport of triathlon is so closely linked to road racing compared to any other sporting culture, that the subtle differences needed to be highlighted. Your right though, I don't see how I could be persuaded to your way of thinking as I think it is necessary. One are that isn't mentioned in the document that has cropped up in relation to triathlons is people purchasing TT bikes that are designed for triathlons and then failing the bike checks at TT Nationals Championships. Another subtle difference that leads to some very expensive errors by some people. So the need to highlight the subtle difference had to be made as nobody from outside the sport would actively seek to read the rules relative to the sport.

You get stupid people from all walks of life it's not exclusive to triathlon. maybe they should have clarified that wetsuits aren't appropriate too just in case triathletes aren't aware?

Wishbone Ash

ROK ON wrote: »

..... my issue is the highlighting of tri athletes is IMHO poor form and potentially counterproductive..

couerdelion wrote: »

You get stupid people from all walks of life it's not exclusive to triathlon...

If a particular group is found to be in breach of the rules, it would be quite normal and proper to single them out. I don't understand why you have a problem with that. If MTBers were turning up at road races in baggy shorts and Camelbacks, they would be mentioned too.

ROK ON

When a person has a CI license they are a cyclist. That they may participate in another sport is irrelevant.

He only thing that matters is that the rules are enforced.

couerdelion

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If a particular group is found to be in breach of the rules, it would be quite normal and proper to single them out. I don't understand why you have a problem with that. If MTBers were turning up at road races in baggy shorts and Camelbacks, they would be mentioned too.

Have you seen any triathletes turning up to races without sleeves?

GMCI

couerdelion wrote: »

Have you seen any triathletes turning up to races without sleeves?

Yes, stage races in particular where they attempt to wear the tri suit in the TT. Hence the reference to it in the document I guess.

I think you are overcomplicating things here and trying to make an issue out of something that isn't there. Nobody in particular was getting singled out in the document nor was anybody from any particular background being called stupid.

This was to make tri athletes aware of the subtle differences in road racing regulations in case they weren't aware as this is the most common sport that are currently participating in open road races.

I really don't see where you or ROKON are going with the rant.

couerdelion

GMCI wrote: »

I really don't see where you or ROKON are going with the rant.

It's hardly a rant. It isn't that big a deal and I won't lose any sleep over it. It just irks.

There's enough cyclists as it is who think triathletes don't know how to cycle and have the bike handling skills of a drunk toddler without CI further perpetuating their thinking and identifying triathletes as a separate group of people who don't know the rules of cycling.

Why not write the paragraph with out singling anyone out?

With an increasing number of new people taking part in road racing,cyclists need to be aware that jerseys need to have sleeves as is the standard of road racing. If participating in a time trial (in a stage race or otherwise) sleeveless skin suits are forbidden.

Anyway it's done now, not much more to say.

Chips Lovell

Would triathletes really be that quick to take offence if someone told them they couldn't wear their gear in a bike race?

Harrybelafonte

The reaction to the mention of triathletes is totally OTT here.

Are sleeveless jerseys to be worn? No.
Who usually wears these in a competitive event? Triathletes.
Who have shown up at races wearing sleeveless jerseys? Triathletes.
Ok, well, let's make it clear to the group who wear these as a norm that different rules apply in road races.

Are triathletes going to start claiming discrimination now?

Idleater

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Are triathletes going to start claiming discrimination now?

Triphobia. Call in Mr waters and the institute to see what the moral stance should be

Beasty

Let's face it, the gear and how numbers are worn is really not a big deal here. The rules are there and if anyone fails to abide by them they can have no complaint if they don't get to race.

What's more interesing to me are the comments about poor behaviour within races, and a proper clamp down is well ovedue in my mind. It will be interesting to see whether they pull up any races where violations are widespread (as I think happened in one race in Ulster last year). Hopefully the Commissaires will be prepared to take such action if we see some of the behaviour witnessed last year (and if they don't the Gardai may well do so).

A couple of other safety issues I don't think are mentioned but were raised at the AGM that I'm sure they will be looking out for are riders "resting" their elbows on the bars rather than holding them properly, and people riding head down not looking ahead (or indeed around)

Mugser

What's a dossard?

fondriest

Mugser wrote: »

What's a dossard?

Your numbers .

Mugser

Cheers Maurizio.

on_the_nickel

I think it's well recognised that triathletes are..how can I put this nicely ...a bit thick. After all, why would you spend 4 hours cycling, running and swimming when you could spend 4 hours cycling?

mirrormatrix

on_the_nickel wrote: »

I think it's well recognised that triathletes are..how can I put this nicely ...a bit thick. After all, why would you spend 4 hours cycling, running and swimming when you could spend 4 hours cycling?

I know this is the cycling forum and all, but name calling is a little unnecessary.

niceonetom

What I don't understand is how they can go sleeveless with such (apparently) thin skin.

Eamonnator

niceonetom wrote: »

What I don't understand is how they can go sleeveless with such (apparently) thin skin.

They wear knee length (compression) socks. Toasty.

dave_o_brien

I've done a few triathlons, all while wearing sleeves.

I was made to feel very welcome.

I do think it was poorly worded from CI, but they are the rules, and along with the more serious issues (road safety, behaviour such as urinating and littering that may compromise the ability to continue races, etc.). I'm glad they've announed this, and hope the safety issues are prioritised and properly enforced.

mirrormatrix

niceonetom wrote: »

What I don't understand is how they can go sleeveless with such (apparently) thin skin.

Its all a question of time really. You'd waste a good thirty seconds or more putting on a jersey. And it's much easier and less effort to make up time in transition than it is on the bike.

Also, the tri season doesn't really kick off until May, at which point the weather is warm enough to go with just the tri suit.

The compression socks give no warmth at all. Supposed to help with recovery after a race or something I think. Not too bothered with them myself.

morana

dave_o_brien wrote: »

... and hope the safety issues are prioritised and properly enforced.

and this is what is paramount..no good chucking an a3 out of a race because his numbers are upside down if a 140 strong bunch is being brought over deep potholed roads up to a sprint with cars either side of the road....but I am sure nothing like that would ever happen

Wishbone Ash

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Its all a question of time really. You'd waste a good thirty seconds or more putting on a jersey. And it's much easier and less effort to make up time in transition than it is on the bike.

Also, the tri season doesn't really kick off until May, at which point the weather is warm enough to go with just the tri suit.

The compression socks give no warmth at all. Supposed to help with recovery after a race or something I think. Not too bothered with them myself.

I think niceonetom's comment has flown over your head!