Laptopsdirect.co.uk issue

FocusFord

Hi everyone,

I need some help with regards to an issue I'm attempting to resolve with laptopsdirect.co.uk.
I purchased my fujitsu lifebook ah531 from them in Oct 2012 and just yesterday the laptop has started to encounter issues. It constantly fails to boot up and when it does, it will freeze and become unresponsive.

So I rang up their customer services team today and after them stating that my laptop has exceeded its 1 year warranty, I stated that I am entitled under the EU directive 99/44/EC sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees, to a repair or replacement free of charge within 2 years of receiving the laptop.

The first operator denied that I am eligible to this right and restated that my laptop is out of its warranty. I then stated that the manufacturers warranty is independent of this statutory right. He then said this is not in their terms and conditions ?

I then asked for a manager and the operator told me he would have a manager call me back before the call centre closed.

15 minutes before its closing time I rang back having not received a call from a manager.

This time a different operator answered and I explained everything and stated my right again.
She then said that I would need to get an engineer to examine the laptop and then send the report from the assessment to them. I stated that I was uncomfortable with getting an engineer to examine the laptop for fear of the engineer causing damage to which I would have no say, aswell as the cost for the engineer. I asked if I could send them the laptop and have their team assess it. She replied this wasn't the procedure and I would need an engineers report.

After this the first operator came back on the line and continued to deny the existence of the EU directive/ my right. He then said he was not going to talk 'law' on the phone and he said no-one else was going to either.

Finally the second operator stated that the UK doesn't 'buy into this law' and so I am not entitled to repair or replacement ....


So basically I need confirmation as to whether I'm in the right/wrong concerning this matter and advice as to what to do next would be appreciated !

Thanks

weemcd

UK law is one year. Rest of EU is 2. Your laptop is out of warranty as they are a UK trader.

FocusFord

I can't find where it states the UK as an exception. Could you show me where it states this ?

weemcd

No I couldn't. I'm telling you from my own personal experience, I worked for a UK retailer who sold electrical goods, and I heard every excuse, European trade description, distance selling regulation quoted at me in regards to returning an item.

It boils down to the same thing. UK is 1 year under warranty as UK is not a full EU member. EU law is 2

Take my word for it and save your breath. Funny how everyone wants to become a legal expert and look for legal loop holes when they hear the word no.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

FocusFord wrote: »

I can't find where it states the UK as an exception. Could you show me where it states this ?

You won't see it listed as an exception to the directive. They didn't ratify the directive. Can you, to put it another way, find where it states the UK ratified it? Ireland didn't either but that was because our existing laws gave better protection.

skinny90

Marlee Flat Voyager wrote: »

You won't see it listed as an exception to the directive. They didn't ratify the directive. Can you, to put it another way, find where it states the UK ratified it? Ireland didn't either but that was because our existing laws gave better protection.

Definitely higher than one year if not very similar to irish law

FocusFord

So should I be looking at the SOGA sale of goods act instead ?... Which gives up to 6 years to prove that the fault existed from the start.

http://www.amdea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Sale-of-goods-act_July09.pdf

clint_silver

good explanation here

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/feb/05/how-long-electrical-goods-guaranteed

slimjimmc

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/consumer_what_you_can_do_about_faulty_goods_e/faulty_goods_-_if_you_want_a_repair_or_a_replacement.htm

You bought the goods more than six months ago

If you received the goods more than six months ago, you can ask for a replacement or a repair as long as it's reasonable for the goods to have lasted this long. But you will have to be able to show there was something wrong with the goods at the time of sale.

You can ask for a repair or replacement at any time up to six years after you bought the goods as long as it is reasonable for them to have lasted this long. If the goods go wrong after six years, you no longer have the right to ask for a repair or replacement.

If lapptopdirect continue to not play ball you can take them to the Small Claims Court. The court's ruling is enforceable in the UK.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/european_small_claims_procedure.html

FocusFord

I'm still very confused about this. Since I purchased the laptop online from the UK, does this mean that I am now subject to UK law?

Because as far as I can see, SOGA is the UK's version of the EU sale of goods directive (it overrides the EU law) and SOGA entitles the consumer to apply for a repair/replacement/refund from a retailer within 6 years.

The link given by clint_silver seems to confirm this point meaning I should therefore be able to have the laptop examined, and if there is a fault discovered, have the laptop repaired or replaced.

From the guardian link:

However, SOGA provides cover for goods bought for up to six years – in England and Wales. This means if a TV fails after 13 months, you still have rights. Assuming the item has failed through no fault of yours, and it was "reasonable" to expect it to last longer – given its cost/quality – you should demand, under the Sale of Goods Act, that it be replaced or repaired by the retailed, not the manufacturer. Once the item is six months old, the onus is on you, the consumer, to show the item failed as a result of a manufacturing fault.

This provides relevant information to back up the above:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/my-laptop-is-broken-can-i-get-it-repaired-or-replaced-

Please help clarify this so I can go ahead and get an independent engineer to examine it and apply for a repair/replacement if its appropriate.

FocusFord

So because the laptop stopped working only yesterday (and it functioned well up to that point), does that rule out me proving through independent examination that the fault existed from the point of sale ?

Or could it still be argued that the fault was always there (e.g. dodgy hard drive from day 1) and that it only became apparent/caused trouble yesterday ?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

skinny90 wrote: »

Definitely higher than one year if not very similar to irish law

I did not say otherwise. I was purely replying to OPs comment about not seeing UK excluded from the directive.

skinny90

Marlee Flat Voyager wrote: »

I did not say otherwise. I was purely replying to OPs comment about not seeing UK excluded from the directive.

Meant to quote the post ahead of yours about it being just one year

Jarren

Hi OP

How about contacting Fujitsu directly ?

http://support.ts.fujitsu.com/warranty/index.asp?lng=IE&Level1=20960&LNID=6435

They might sort out the problem without any hassle you having from LD .

My 2cents

whippet

FocusFord wrote: »

Or could it still be argued that the fault was always there (e.g. dodgy hard drive from day 1) and that it only became apparent/caused trouble yesterday ?

What you need to get is an independent report as to what the problem is. Present this to the retailer and then go from there.

As it stands now the retailer has no way (apart from what you are telling them) of knowing what the problem is, how the problem was created etc.

FocusFord

I'll need to go the route of getting an assessment by an engineer if I want to request a repair/replacement on SOGA grounds.

What I'm unsure of regarding that is will an inspection/report from a local laptop repair tech suffice ?

whippet

FocusFord wrote: »

I'll need to go the route of getting an assessment by an engineer if I want to request a repair/replacement on SOGA grounds.

What I'm unsure of regarding that is will an inspection/report from a local laptop repair tech suffice ?

which can over complicate things too!!

If the technician who works on your machine isn't a certified repair technician from the manufacture you may be invalidating any warranty etc.

FocusFord

What I don't understand is they don't mention getting a certified technician from the manufacturer, just an independent examination/report to prove the fault was always there.

But I'm not convinced that they'd accept a report from my local laptop tech stating that the fault has always been there.

FocusFord

I just got off the phone to the European consumer centre ireland and was informed that the european directive has been transposed over to UK law and that I am within my rights to request a repair/replacement on the grounds of that directive. The operator said that they have had no problem enforcing this directive in several cases to date across the UK.

I then asked her to confirm that according to the law, because I am within the 2 years of purchase, I am not required to prove that there is a fault/ that it existed from the point of sale (in other words, the fault could have arised within the 2 years). The operator confirmed this and reassured me that the seller is now obliged to deal with the matter.

The advice was to write to the company and inform them of my rights/entitlements and give them about 10 business days to meet my request of a repair/replacement.
In the case where they fail to do so, I should ring the ECC again and they will get onto their partner UK office who will then get in contact with the company themselves to enforce this law.

clint_silver

FocusFord wrote: »

I just got off the phone to the European consumer centre ireland and was informed that the european directive has been transposed over to UK law and that I am within my rights to request a repair/replacement on the grounds of that directive. The operator said that they have had no problem enforcing this directive in several cases to date across the UK.

The advice was to write to the company and inform them of my rights/entitlements and give them about 10 business days to meet my request of a repair/replacement.
In the case where they fail to do so, I should ring the ECC again and they will get onto their partner UK office who will then get in contact with the company themselves to enforce this law.

And thats the way to do it. Paper trail through official channels all the way.

one man clappin

OP, you say that it is a known issue that you are having with your laptop? When did you first become aware of this problem?

FocusFord

Yes, the laptop worked perfectly up to 2 days ago. Then it began to encounter several issues including unresponsiveness and most of all, failing to boot.
The laptop has given me a 'bad hard disk' error message and will no longer boot to windows.

FocusFord

Laptopsdirect UK only seems to have an online eMessage system and no contact email. But, I have the email for the managing director of Buyitdirect (they own laptopsdirect).

Should I send the above request for repair/replacement to the managing director via email (maybe he would have it carried out faster)
or should I send a typed letter to the laptopsdirect UK address ?

Nemeses

FocusFord - where are you based? In the UK or Ireland?

FocusFord

Ireland

slimjimmc

FocusFord wrote: »

Laptopsdirect UK only seems to have an online eMessage system and no contact email. But, I have the email for the managing director of Buyitdirect (they own laptopsdirect).

Should I send the above request for repair/replacement to the managing director via email (maybe he would have it carried out faster)
or should I send a typed letter to the laptopsdirect UK address ?

The laptopsdirect.co.uk domain is registered to Buy It Direct Ltd and suggests Laptops Direct is just a trading name. Their contact page even shows it's the same company, so I'd send any correspondence to the address on the website.

Postal mail is more likely to get attention rather than just another email lost in the depths of someone's inbox. Use Registered Post International so you have proof of delivery.

Nemeses

Don't know if it applies but read up on this

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_rights_and_cross_border_shopping_in_the_european_union.html

The product would have had to be defective from day 1 / from delivery.


Because its a hard drive, they are technically failing components the minute it turns on.. your best bet is just to either pay for a repair or fix it yourself.

Its a fairly straight forward job if you know how!

slimjimmc

Nemeses wrote: »

Don't know if it applies but read up on this

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_rights_and_cross_border_shopping_in_the_european_union.html

The product would have had to be defective from day 1 / from delivery.


Because its a hard drive, they are technically failing components the minute it turns on.. your best bet is just to either pay for a repair or fix it yourself.

Its a fairly straight forward job if you know how!

Don't know where you got that requirement from but the product must also be reasonably durable which basically means a defect can appear long after day 1 / delivery and you may still be covered.

Anyway, the EU rights you linked to are minimum rights, Ireland and (afaik) the UK give greater rights.

Nemeses

slimjimmc wrote: »

Anyway, the EU rights you linked to are minimum rights, Ireland and (afaik) the UK give greater rights.

What are these rights and anything to back that up?

What I linked was : Consumer rights in the European Union

Theres nothing minimal about that.

slimjimmc

Nemeses wrote: »

What are these rights and anything to back that up?

What I linked was : Consumer rights in the European Union

Theres nothing minimal about that.

You missed the first 2 sentences of the 2nd paragraph then:

National consumer laws in a particular country may provide you with additional rights as a consumer. That is, rights that supplement your rights provided by EU laws.

Nemeses

slimjimmc wrote: »

You missed the first 2 sentences of the 2nd paragraph then:

"may provide" Being the operative word here.

Then we shall need some links or reference then so to help the OP out.

FocusFord

As mentioned above, according to the eu directive 99/44/ec, "The seller is liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists when the goods are delivered to the consumer and which arises within a period of two years from delivery". So the fault doesn't have to have existed from day 1.

slimjimmc

Nemeses wrote: »

"may provide" Being the operative word here.

Then we shall need some links or reference then so to help the OP out.

I'll give you an example:
http://www.eccireland.ie/popular-consumer-topics/buying-goods-and-services/

Remedies

EU rules which protect consumers when buying goods and services are valid no matter where in the EU the goods are purchased and are enforceable for at least 2 years from delivery of the goods. In Ireland, there is limitation period of 6 years within which a consumer can bring an action against a trader for ‘the lack of conformity’. For example, if you order a laptop which turns out to have less memory than it is supposed to have, the problem may not be obvious to you immediately, but it is still an inherent fault in the product which the trader must remedy if you discover it within the limitation period.

Para 17 of 99/44/EC says a consumer must have at least 2 years to exercise their rights, Irish law (Statute of Limitations) allows up to 6 years.

The UK has similar law. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58

Nemeses

There we go.

Bear in mind, If that hard drive has failed. It can fall under Wear & Tear instead of defective since day 1.

But with the post that slimjim has posted..See how far you can go with it.

FocusFord

Just to update, I've gone ahead and ordered a replacement hard drive as I can replace it myself and would rather not wait forever for a response from laptopsdirect uk.
I haven't received a reply from the managing director yet but it will be interesting to see what he says.

Would there be anyway I could claim back the cost of the new hard drive ?