PRTB hearing tomorrow - any advice? LONG

Pamela13

Hi,

Some of you may remember a few threads last year about anti-social neighbours who are tenants ('illegal' build, etc), well, I finally brought a third party complaint to the PRTB, who expedited within a month of receiving the complaint (I sent in in late November, but I had made a mistake, which was sorted in mid-January and then got a hearing date within three weeks of the final confirmation)....

I have photographic evidence, texts/emails between the landlord/myself, a log going back to April 2012, another neighbours' witness statement (some 75+ pages), etc., and the tenants' defence is...I'm racist.

Does anybody have experience of an adjudication at the PRTB? Is it like a court case where I can raise the most important issues, e.g. stereo/TV on the party wall (got proof via tenants' facebook page), etc) and they must address those issues? The 'defence' which was presented was full of threats and racial allegations, but they never addressed the very serious issues (the PRTB assured me that it was the very serious complaint with my evidence that prompted them to offer an early hearing date and in fact, they accepted evidence up until Friday (normally a 10-days before cut-off) and the adjudicator has agreed to exceptional evidence (the facebook pages as I did not know the name of the tenant until last Wednesday and a submission to the Gardai for a meeting and sorry, a determination by Alan Shatter (via email) that facebook evidence could be used)....

But I'm scared. For over a year, they have been making my life hell. This past weekend, they have been blasting music and another neighbour (who is black) went over and asked them to quiet down and they just laughed and said that they could do want they wanted....

So, how does a hearing go?

Can they come in and started screaming 'racism'? or am I too paranoid and the adjudicator will realised the validity of my argument, etc?

Thanks....I was told that since they were the RAS scheme that if the PRTB found that they were anti-social, their tenancy could be ended and they would lose any rights for social housing, rent allowance, etc., and that is the last thing I want, BUT I asked the PRTB back in May for help (letters to prove) and now just feel like an idiot for not formally complaining before, but I have a two year old son, who they seem to delight in scaring and that is unacceptable.

thanks!

Pamela13

Nope -- the adjudicator let the tenants take over, making loads of allegations about me, and paid no attention to the real issues. The tenants argued that they had the law on their side, but I argued that it was a quality of life issue and they kept citing irrelevant case law. The adjudicator allowed them to control everything and I was made out as a crank, e.g. they can blast music because they can...

not pleased.

tusk

That really is disgusting! My sympathies are with you. Is there anything else you can do now, or is that the end of the line?

Pamela13

I'm trying to get an appointment with a solicitor asap to discuss. I feel that they used the race card to negate every issue, even the ones where I had legitimate concerns (they have a stereo on the party wall and the vibrations/boom means that I can't be in the room (I suffer from migraines) and their argument was that it wasn't that loud (the ordinary person wouldn't be affected), but I said that egg skell skull rule applies, since I have a propensity towards migaines, the level of duty is more (I hope I phrased this right), but the tenants would claim that I was being unreasonable. Anytime they didn't have some psuedo-law to throw, they claimed racism. The landlord also was dismissive, even though I have written emails/texts from her in agreement with some issues -- it was two hours of character assassination, which was humiliating and upsetting. That's certainly not what I expected and I am sorry that I ever went to PRTB.

On a positive, I have a job interview tomorrow in the UK and I hope I get it, as I think I just need some positives!

thanks

sandra06

it awfull the way you were treated but doesnt supprise me the race card is very popular to use

sawdoubters

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/dispute-resolution-process-faqs

Pro Hoc Vice

Pamela13 wrote: »

Nope -- the adjudicator let the tenants take over, making loads of allegations about me, and paid no attention to the real issues. The tenants argued that they had the law on their side, but I argued that it was a quality of life issue and they kept citing irrelevant case law. The adjudicator allowed them to control everything and I was made out as a crank, e.g. they can blast music because they can...

not pleased.

While of course you may be unhappy the way the case was run, how can you be unhappy there is I assume no decision yet. Often a judge or adjudicator will allow both sides to vent all their issues but that does not mean either side can predetermine the outcome.

It's another reason I don't like lawyer free zones, usually professionals keep to the real issues and don't throw around baseless arguments.

Pro Hoc Vice

Pamela13 wrote: »

I'm trying to get an appointment with a solicitor asap to discuss. I feel that they used the race card to negate every issue, even the ones where I had legitimate concerns (they have a stereo on the party wall and the vibrations/boom means that I can't be in the room (I suffer from migraines) and their argument was that it wasn't that loud (the ordinary person wouldn't be affected), but I said that egg skell skull rule applies, since I have a propensity towards migaines, the level of duty is more (I hope I phrased this right), but the tenants would claim that I was being unreasonable. Anytime they didn't have some psuedo-law to throw, they claimed racism. The landlord also was dismissive, even though I have written emails/texts from her in agreement with some issues -- it was two hours of character assassination, which was humiliating and upsetting. That's certainly not what I expected and I am sorry that I ever went to PRTB.

On a positive, I have a job interview tomorrow in the UK and I hope I get it, as I think I just need some positives!

thanks

You brought a claim against both a landlord and tenants, I assume a valid claim, but then you get upset when they defend themselves. If you are unhappy with any decision that comes then you can appeal, but until you have that decision no good comes out of worry.

Pamela13

oops! a resolution was 'reached', which is what I wanted - we are supposed to be considerate to one another and discuss things before they escalate again -- this is something I pushed for as I wanted them (the tenants) to know that I was serious about trying to resolve, not to continue this behaviour (on either side, I guess); in that regard, the tenants kept wanting to 'say one more thing' and I had to stress that I wanted a resolution, if possible, that day.

After some sleep, it dawned on me (I can be somewhat slow at times) that both parties have to behave -- the onus is not just on me to accept their behaviour) if they start the music again, I can go back to the PRTB and argue that they are not following our agreement. I still hate the character assassination, but part of the agreement also is that they cannot use the racism card, e.g. we start 'fresh' today, if you will.

Personally, I think I should have had a solicitor with me. However, the adjudicator did allow me to stress my migraines (I could have a doctor there, if I had known it would be so adversarial (sp) and they (the tenants seemed to acknowledge, but they still argued that the law protected them, I said it does, BUT the egg shell rule is also applicable.

So we had the resolution and in terms of me, it was better that yesterday than a determination in a few weeks/months that stated that I was racist, which would have completely destroyed my teaching career and would have had very serious consequences.

thanks again....sigh.

cookie1977

Pamela13 wrote: »

oops! a resolution was 'reached', which is what I wanted - we are supposed to be considerate to one another and discuss things before they escalate again -- this is something I pushed for as I wanted them (the tenants) to know that I was serious about trying to resolve, not to continue this behaviour (on either side, I guess); in that regard, the tenants kept wanting to 'say one more thing' and I had to stress that I wanted a resolution, if possible, that day.

After some sleep, it dawned on me (I can be somewhat slow at times) that both parties have to behave -- the onus is not just on me to accept their behaviour) if they start the music again, I can go back to the PRTB and argue that they are not following our agreement. I still hate the character assassination, but part of the agreement also is that they cannot use the racism card, e.g. we start 'fresh' today, if you will.

Personally, I think I should have had a solicitor with me. However, the adjudicator did allow me to stress my migraines (I could have a doctor there, if I had known it would be so adversarial (sp) and they (the tenants seemed to acknowledge, but they still argued that the law protected them, I said it does, BUT the egg shell rule is also applicable.

So we had the resolution and in terms of me, it was better that yesterday than a determination in a few weeks/months that stated that I was racist, which would have completely destroyed my teaching career and would have had very serious consequences.

thanks again....sigh.

Have you considered mediation?

hfallada

Most people suggest PRTB is only to protect the tenant. I surprised they dealt with you so rapidly, but they obviously didnt give you the out come you expected. My parents are LLs and I have never heard of one of their friends having to deal with the PRTB. You literally do anything possible before you consider the PRTB.

Have you called the irish property owners association? They give landlords advice.

Pro Hoc Vice

hfallada wrote: »

Most people suggest PRTB is only to protect the tenant. I surprised they dealt with you so rapidly, but they obviously didnt give you the out come you expected. My parents are LLs and I have never heard of one of their friends having to deal with the PRTB. You literally do anything possible before you consider the PRTB.

Have you called the irish property owners association? They give landlords advice.

Why would the Irish property owners association give a third party neighbour advice in her fight with a LL and the tenant.

Pro Hoc Vice

cookie1977 wrote: »

Have you considered mediation?

I think from my reading of the OP's update that the hearing was a mediation.

Pro Hoc Vice

Pamela13 wrote: »

oops! a resolution was 'reached', which is what I wanted - we are supposed to be considerate to one another and discuss things before they escalate again -- this is something I pushed for as I wanted them (the tenants) to know that I was serious about trying to resolve, not to continue this behaviour (on either side, I guess); in that regard, the tenants kept wanting to 'say one more thing' and I had to stress that I wanted a resolution, if possible, that day.

After some sleep, it dawned on me (I can be somewhat slow at times) that both parties have to behave -- the onus is not just on me to accept their behaviour) if they start the music again, I can go back to the PRTB and argue that they are not following our agreement. I still hate the character assassination, but part of the agreement also is that they cannot use the racism card, e.g. we start 'fresh' today, if you will.

Personally, I think I should have had a solicitor with me. However, the adjudicator did allow me to stress my migraines (I could have a doctor there, if I had known it would be so adversarial (sp) and they (the tenants seemed to acknowledge, but they still argued that the law protected them, I said it does, BUT the egg shell rule is also applicable.

So we had the resolution and in terms of me, it was better that yesterday than a determination in a few weeks/months that stated that I was racist, which would have completely destroyed my teaching career and would have had very serious consequences.

thanks again....sigh.

While the meeting was not pleasant the matter seems to have been brought to a reasonable conclusion or am I reading your report incorrectly. But yes I do agree it is always best to be represented at such things.

cookie1977

infosys wrote: »

I think from my reading of the OP's update that the hearing was a mediation.

Proper mediation wouldn't have a ruling. This is almost like arbitration.

Pamela13

It was an adjudication and the tenants controlled everything in the meeting, even to interrupting me and my husband and the adjudicator let them -- they had no real defence, except that I am a racist and therefore, I am in the wrong.

I am hopeful that the tenants will behave, but if they do start blasting music, there is nothing I can do. All I wanted was a resolution, but the tenants did not present credible evidence, just slander and nasty comments. I tried to deal with specific issues, but they argued that they could park in front of a shared entrance, they could put their bins closer to our front door than theirs (harder to get to their car in front) and when they wanted to relax and 'blast music', they are allowed to -- they offered the suggestion of ear plugs. Legally, they are correct - BUT one can be legally right and still cause problems, had there been any criminal aspect, I would have gone to the guards (except for the music/boom-boom -- that is something that I do have legal rights (given my history of migraines/seizures, etc). There was no proper defence, but they attacked me verbally, some incidences I was able to prove never happened, e.g. the woman said I walked by last week and gave her the finger, I asked for specifics and then said that it couldn't have been last week as my husband had picked up the baby from creche in the car and therefore, I wouldn't have been on the street with him the stroller, and she said, oh, it was the week before and I said, but after Christmas? oh, yes! well, no as we had driven the baby to and from creche since early December....and then, they would make another allegation about something and round and round it went, and I kept saying I wanted a resolution of specific issues (noise, parking, etc)....

I think that the adjudicator handled it badly and I am sorry that I ever went to the PRTB -- I hope that the tenants do uphold our agreement, but if not -- I will have to get a solicitor to protect myself and my family.


thanks