No one seems bothered?

LegacyUser

Hi everyone,

So I just wanted to know out and out whether or not it is ok and acceptable to instigate contact/a date with a man? Or is it truly that if he genuinely wants something out of meeting me, he will instigate it? Do men play games or should I just tell my friends to shut up with this "we are modern women" lark? Cause I ain't going to lie: I feel like giving up on being the active force in starting anything romantic. Its getting so bloomin' tedious and samey.

Thanks for any advice.

Tokyo

Why wouldn't it be acceptable to ask a guy out on a date???????

crazygeryy

Yes it is unless your mingin.

kylith

What's the story here? Have you been with him for a while or is it someone you've just met?

If you've just met and you want to go out with him then ask him out. If you've been with him for a while and it's always you calling him to arrange dates then it's time to ask him if he's actually interested.

Ham Sambo

I'd be chuffed if a girl asked me out on a date, however I don't think my wife would be too pleased!!, joking aside, Go for it!!!

Taltos

crazygeryy - banned for a week for being uncivil.

gerry, please read our charter. If you cannot post in a civil and constructive fashion please don't post. If this seems familiar it's because you were already asked to do this just a few months ago. Please note, bans are incremental here in the normal run of events (but not always), that means you will very shortly find yourself banned permanently from PI/RI unless you mend your ways.

Taltos

Legs.Eleven

Ask him out. Take destiny into your own hands. If a man likes you, he'll be pleased. If he's not interested, he'll still be chuffed. Forget the games: no relationship bodes well if it begins with games. There is no reason you should wait for him to ask you out; this is not the 1950s.

CaraMay

There will be exceptions but I have yet to hear of a relationship working whereby a girl asked a guy out and they ended up madly in love.

From my own experience, if a guy liked you he will let you know and you won't have to chase him. Maybe things are different with younger generations now but I would never encourage a girl to ask a guy out.

Stavro Mueller

CaraMay wrote: »

There will be exceptions but I have yet to hear of a relationship working whereby a girl asked a guy out and they ended up madly in love

One of my closest make friends was asked out by his now girlfriend. He liked her but didn't think she felt the same way. They're together 5 years now... Just to balance things out :-)

OP if you like a guy then just go ask him out. If things work out nobody's going to care who asked who. If it turns out the guy you asked out isn't interested, then isn't it better you found out in time?

LegacyUser

CaraMay wrote: »

There will be exceptions but I have yet to hear of a relationship working whereby a girl asked a guy out and they ended up madly in love.

From my own experience, if a guy liked you he will let you know and you won't have to chase him. Maybe things are different with younger generations now but I would never encourage a girl to ask a guy out.

My girlfriend asked me out, and we're madly in love now. I'm incredibly glad she asked me out, and grateful to her friends who advised her to go for it.

Legs.Eleven

CaraMay wrote: »

There will be exceptions but I have yet to hear of a relationship working whereby a girl asked a guy out and they ended up madly in love.

From my own experience, if a guy liked you he will let you know and you won't have to chase him. Maybe things are different with younger generations now but I would never encourage a girl to ask a guy out.

Probably because not many girls ask guys out.

What if the guy is incredibly shy? Not every guy has that kind of confidence. Plenty of guys who don't have the courage to let someone know they fancy them. Or sometimes people don't know how they feel about someone until they have a date with them or spend a bit of time with them. I think waiting for things to happen to you is a very frustrating existence. The OP has nothing to lose except for a bruised ego.

kylith

CaraMay wrote: »

There will be exceptions but I have yet to hear of a relationship working whereby a girl asked a guy out and they ended up madly in love.

From my own experience, if a guy liked you he will let you know and you won't have to chase him. Maybe things are different with younger generations now but I would never encourage a girl to ask a guy out.

I've initiated both my current relationship and my previous one. The idea that girls shouldn't ask out guys is fairly outdated.

Foolscap

CaraMay wrote: »

There will be exceptions but I have yet to hear of a relationship working whereby a girl asked a guy out and they ended up madly in love.

Apart from mine which works fine thanks. I also plan to propose to him if he hasn't done it by the time the relationship is ready for that step.

Life is too short to be constrained by nonsense gender propaganda. If you like someone, ask him out OP. If he says no, he was never going to be interested in the first place.

stickybookmark

I'd highly recommend this book ''The Rules'' in which this topic is discussed in detail.

Should be compulsory reading for all girls I reckon!

http://therulesbook.com/

strobe

stickybookmark wrote: »

I'd highly recommend this book ''The Rules'' in which this topic is discussed in detail.

Should be compulsory reading for all girls I reckon!

http://therulesbook.com/

... PUA for women. "How to manipulate insecure men with emotional problems into thinking they like you when they really don't, all while screwing up your chances with everyone else. Yours for only 9:99!!!"

...sounds legit.

stickybookmark

strobe wrote: »

... PUA for women. "How to manipulate insecure men with emotional problems into thinking they like you when they really don't, all while screwing up your chances with everyone else. Yours for only 9:99!!!"

...sounds legit.

I completely disagree. The Rules basically explains the age-old premise that people are more likely to want what they can't have.
If anything you're more likely to attract strong alpha-males with this approach as they will be the ones with the confidence to keep chasing a seemingly unattainable woman - so you're more likely to attract strong, confident men as opposed to insecure ones with emotional probs

strobe

stickybookmark wrote: »

I completely disagree. The Rules basically explains the age-old premise that people are more likely to want what they can't have.
If anything you're more likely to attract strong alpha-males with this approach as they will be the ones with the confidence to keep chasing a seemingly unattainable woman - so you're more likely to attract strong, confident men as opposed to insecure ones with emotional probs

(Yes yes, doesn't sound like easy answer tell people what they want to hear and charge them for it snake oil at all at all. Not really the forum or thread to have the discussion though.)

OP, if a guy really likes you, and is a normal, adjusted, balanced person, he will be happy you have shown an interest in him and will reciprocate... what with men being human beings and all. It's really really that straight forward. If you ask a guy out or convey your interest in him and he doesn't respond positively then you've lost nothing and saved yourself a lot of time, as he isn't that pushed about you to begin with, and at least now you know without the need for silly childish games etc.

CaraMay

But most men would give it a shot given that the girl has asked then out whereas if they were truly interested they would have done the asking in the first place IMHO

stickybookmark

The OP sounds fairly young so from a not-so-young person (in 30s) who has taken the scenic route to finding long-lasting love my advice after years and years of dating, asking guys out, having guys ask me out, red herrings, wasted time, breaking the odd heart and having mine broken my advice would be that the advice given in the Rules is broadly on the ball. If you like a guy let him know you're interested (subtly) but then leave it to the guy to pursue you. If he's keen enough he will.

LegacyUser

stickybookmark wrote: »

The OP sounds fairly young so from a not-so-young person (in 30s) who has taken the scenic route to finding long-lasting love my advice after years and years of dating, asking guys out, having guys ask me out, red herrings, wasted time, breaking the odd heart and having mine broken my advice would be that the advice given in the Rules is broadly on the ball. If you like a guy let him know you're interested (subtly) but then leave it to the guy to pursue you. If he's keen enough he will.

I've read lots of dating advice/manuals and just from personal experience, the rules isn't too far wrong. While I wouldn't say it's a bible by any means and some of the advice is ridiculous, the premise - that guys like the chase - holds true.

I think relationships that work out where the girl is the initiator works out if the guy is particularly shy. My cousin asked her husband out and they've been married over 20 years.
But it's not something that I would advocate. Definitely give a guy signals that you're interested but I wouldn't ask out. How are you to know for sure, if he was really interested in you?

Another manual I read said that guys are terrified of asking girls out (no surprise there) - not just of the possible rejection from the girl, but also of the shame of having been rejected in front of his mates - very hard for a guy to recover from. So guys sometimes don't risk asking a girl out. So make it as easy as possible for the guy.

strobe

fullcirclepalin wrote: »

But it's not something that I would advocate. Definitely give a guy signals that you're interested but I wouldn't ask out. How are you to know for sure, if he was really interested in you?

Ok, this is meant for the OP's reading.

The above bolded bit is the selling point of 'The Rules' essentially. That not asking a guy out, waiting for him to do the asking and the chasing and everything that entails, is a way of making sure that you will only end up with guys that are 'really interested in you'.

I disagree with this, and I'll give my reasons. I've a friend, we'll call him 'Keith'. I grew up with this guy. He was tall, handsome (now I like to think of myself a reasonable looking guy but we're talking movie star/ greek god/ etc handsome here). He was mad for women and they were mad for him. Now he was a good friend of mine, and there wasn't a malicious bone in his body, butwe were young and stupid and silly and it would be fair to say he didn't have the most rounded view of women and was certainly inconsiderate and quite immature in a lot of ways.

I never once in all the time we knew each other knew him to be single. He'd always be in a relationship of some kind with at least one girl, but more often than not, more than one. He loved the chase and he loved sex and he loved girls being mad about him. We'd talk, as young men do amongst themselves, about girls. And sure enough he would always have a story or two about some girl he had "on the go". Usually identified as "your one with the tits and the brown hair from Wicklow" or something similar. It would go along the lines of "yeah, asked her out on a few dates, we've been texting back and forth bla bla bla... she's doing the whole 'playing hard to get' routine haha. Been bout four months I've been trying to get stuck into her. If it wasn't for Whatsherface I brought to the party the other night riding my brains out I'd have some case of blueballs on me hahah".

Now 'your one from Wicklow' and the many others like her there were over the years may not have been knowingly following 'The Rules' (or maybe they were) but all the playing hard to get, waiting for him to ask her out etc didn't do anything whatsoever to guarantee that only guys who were 'really interested in them' were the guys they ended up with, although it more than likely did allow some of them at least, to tell themselves that while they were led on a merry dance.

Now most lads aren't like Keith. But some are and all the 'playing hard to get' and 'allowing them to do the chasing' and 'making yourself unavailable' in the world isn't going to magically screen them out of your life.



Now from the other side of things, there's the "if the guy doesn't ask you out/ do the chasing/ etc then he obviously isn't that into you/ it's not meant to be/ etc" angle 'The Rules' and that whole philosophy sells itself from.
Look, some guys pick up on subtle displays of interest etc, but lots don't. It's almost a cliche/meme at this point for guys to say "women are too subtle". I wouldn't be able to count the amount of times I've seen guys surprised when it's pointed out to them that "So I see Jenny is mad for you man, flirting like crazy". Now these are often confident lads, who have plenty of interest from women for quite obvious reasons, total catches, they just don't read subtlety that well. It just goes over their head for some reason.

I also wouldn't be able to count the number of "Jenny's" I've know over the years that haven't happened to be lucky enough to have a third party around to spell out their 'subtle displays of interest' for a guy. That have ended up having to watch another girl with a little more cop on snatch him up from right in front of them and probably be resigned to repeating to themselves "it just wasn't meant to be/ he just mustn't have been that interested" like some healing mantra that will make it all ok.



Then there's the fact that quite a lot of reasonably mature, intelligent, worldly men can basically see "silly game playing" which lets be honest, is what 'The Rules' amounts to, a mile off. It's not exactly subtle most of the time, despite what it's practitioners/advocates can often think. And frankly, quite a lot of men are probably going to find it, when not coming from a teenager, a little silly and tbh, pathetic. There's no badness in it most of the time of course, it's just all very very cringy when it's coming from a grown adult woman. Fine for a bit of fun of course, but not exactly serious relationship material.


Now... I am not saying that if you do follow 'The Rules' or that whole kind of philosophy OP, then you are destined always and forever to be a "Jenny" or to only ever wind up with "Keiths" but if you just use a little common sense and think things through and try to look at the world and the people in it objectively and realistically, I hope you'll see how it doesn't particularly reduce your chances of these things, and unfortunately, sometimes, can potentially do the opposite.

You could follow 'The Rules' to a t, and hopefully, eventually, end up in a wonderful, rewarding, perfect and lasting relationship with the man of your dreams, but that will probably be despite it, not because of it. And in the mean time 50 great guys and a bunch of thoroughly wasted time will have passed you by.

That's all I'm gonna say on the matter OP. My advice is go out, have fun, don't take life too seriously, be upfront and honest with people and leave childish games to children. When you meet the right guy he'll respond in kind.

Wishing you every luck in the future with your love life.

Boombastic

I asked my other half out 12 years ago. It's been downhill since then and we're getting married in a few weeks



Nothing ventured, nothing gained....nothing wrong with either sex asking the other out

sligoface

I call BS on all that stupid 'Rules' stuff, they're always on about this alpha male monkey crap, we've evolved a bit since the hunter gatherer days.
I've had plenty of female friends complain that it is more often than not the guys they don't want who are always approaching them, the ones they can tell are creeps straight away they have to beat off with a stick, while the guys who they think are cute and also seem decent, doesn't approach. A lot of women find men who are trying to be big shots, alpha, whatever, obnoxious.

I usually want a women because I find her attractive and we have compatible personalities, not just because I can't have her. Yes, the chase is fun, but that doesn't mean a woman asking me out would turn me off. I'd be delighted.

In the US, it wouldn't be very unusual. Less common than guy asks girl but far from shocking. But then again, in the US you can chat people up without alcohol involved, if you are able, and we haven't got that concept yet here either. In this country we have a narrow view of how to behave as regards the opposite sex. Women don't give men compliments, they don't ask guys out either. Maybe they think that if they start asking us out we'll expect them to pay for our dinner as well, I dunno. On the other hand if we compliment a woman it's often interpreted as 'he wants to ride me'.

Buck the trend OP, ask him out. There's a good chance he is attracted to you, and if by chance he isn't, he will stillbe impressed with your confident approach, and won't say no. When a girl rejects a guy we are expected to just take the knock, man up, move on. In this situation he won't want to reject you because a) we are supposed to be nice to women, and b) we know the courage it takes to put yourself out there, and how crap it feels to get rejected.

CaraMay

But what's the point him going out with her, if he isn't attracted to her, just because she had the courage to ask?

Grayfoxy

Wow,

Sorry to be blunt here,

I don't see the point in "signaling him, signaling her" bull....

If you see someone you like, absolutely it is fine for men to ask women out or women to ask men out. If one is not interested, say it, if you don't have the balls to say it, tell them you are involved or something.

This hinting malark just causes games.

So, to answer your question, yes! It is ok for a woman to ask a guy out (in fact, I wish more women did)

sligoface

CaraMay wrote: »

But what's the point him going out with her, if he isn't attracted to her, just because she had the courage to ask?

Fair point, I just meant the OP would be less likely to get the instant ego bruise of a flat refusal which leaves the asker cringing to themself for the rest of the day. But you're right it would probably be worse, you don't want to lead someone on either.

I just think if women were a little more up front about who they like they might have a better chance of getting together with them. Lots of guys get intimidated by women or are shy in general. In a small country, esp. in the towns, you might be forced to run into the person often and not want there to be awkwardness. More often than not we are just not good at picking up the subtle cues women give us or even when we do see them we still have doubts. And for some guys, getting rejected really knocks their confidence to approach women in the future.

I mean, ladies, when you like a guy, I'd bet that there's a certain amount of time before he realizes it, right? And maybe sometimes he never does. And then somehow he ends up with someone else. Why waste time or risk it never happening, when you can ask him out? If I was a woman, it would drive me nuts to have to try and get the person I like to not only realize I like him, but also have to hope he has the courage to ask me. Especially if I was a confident person and the guy was a bit more on the shy side or just didn't seem to pick up on my signals.

It's actually quite a good thing we have going for us, that it is culturally acceptable to express your desire for a romantic relationship to a member of the opposite sex, the one catch being you have to risk rejection and any negative feelings like embarassment that go with it. Because I'd much rather have the option to ask, even with the risk of rejection, than not have the ability to be totally proactive in my selection of partner. I think I would feel the same way if I was female, so this particular cultural custom would frustrate me quite a bit, and I'd want to change it. It would be better for both sexes if it was more acceptable, as it would lead to more relationships being formed, and less loneliness on the planet, and that would be a good thing. That's my view.

stickybookmark

Strobe, the biggest argument I would have with your post is that I do believe that girls witholding sex (which is a key part of the Rules) does weed out the players. A player like the Keith you describe is only going to wait so long for sex like. He's only going to pay for so many meals/go on so many dates and if he's not getting what he wants, he will eventually bugger off and find an easier target. So following that Rule of not having sex too early can work wonders for girls to weed out players. The genuine guys are far more likely to hang around and wait.

kylith

CaraMay wrote: »

But what's the point him going out with her, if he isn't attracted to her, just because she had the courage to ask?

Why would he go out with someone he isn't attracted to just because he's asked?

The OP can sit around all day batting her eyelashes hoping that he's clued in enough to notice, hoping he'll realise what she's doing, and hoping that he has the guts to ask her out while fretting about does he like her, does he not, OR she can walk up to him, ask if he'd like to go out for coffee/a pint and have her answer, one way or the other, in a couple of seconds.

I've done both and, trust me, while asking someone out is nerve-racking and you might get rejected, it's better than doing nothing, which is what waiting for him to do the asking is. I wasted an awful lot of time in my younger years trying to psychically influence men into asking me out and being upset when they didn't when I could have saved myself a lot of time and stress by just making the first move myself.

strobe

stickybookmark wrote: »

Strobe, the biggest argument I would have with your post is that I do believe that girls witholding sex (which is a key part of the Rules) does weed out the players. A player like the Keith you describe is only going to wait so long for sex like. He's only going to pay for so many meals/go on so many dates and if he's not getting what he wants, he will eventually bugger off and find an easier target. So following that Rule of not having sex too early can work wonders for girls to weed out players. The genuine guys are far more likely to hang around and wait.

Genuine guys might hang around and wait, or genuine guys might want genuine girls and figure a girl playing games isn't genuine and move on.

'Players' might get bored and move on or they may have no problem taking a pretty girl out and having a few drinks and a dance and a bit of fun (we're not talking breaking rocks in the midday sun here, dating is enjoyable for a lot of reasons apart from the sex) and 'waiting' for sex because they're getting plenty of sex elsewhere and 'like the chase' for the chases sake.

Ultimately all waiting 5 dates/3 months/arbitrary whatever to have sex garauntees is not having sex for 5 dates/3 months/ arbitrary whatever.

You'll be likely to 'weed out' as many genuine guys as 'players' and sure of weeding out neither.

All that effort and silliness ultimately for nothing.

But we'll probably never agree, the OP has our opinions.

Emme

stickybookmark wrote: »

I completely disagree. The Rules basically explains the age-old premise that people are more likely to want what they can't have.
If anything you're more likely to attract strong alpha-males with this approach as they will be the ones with the confidence to keep chasing a seemingly unattainable woman - so you're more likely to attract strong, confident men as opposed to insecure ones with emotional probs

Or stalkers :eek:

There's no hard and fast rules about women asking guys out but some guys prefer to do the chasing, others don't. Is he a traditional guy? If so he might prefer to do the asking. If he's more progressive he might like to be asked out. If you're already friends it's easier, just ask him to join you for an early bird dinner and see how it goes. Keep it casual.

nc19

If you ask a single fella out the only reason he would say no is if he doesnt fancy you and that is fair enough. Any man would be flattered imo

Its totally different for a fella askng a girl out imo. There are many reason she might say no even if she fancied him and many reasons she would say yes if she didnt fancy him.

Tl/Dr

A girl asks a fella out - he knows she fancies him ; he says yes - she knows he fancies her.

No confusion

Go for it

marie12

as a woman i have read the rules and would not recommend it as its basically playing mind games. meeting someone should be honest and easy and open. there's something v manipulative about the book, i wouldn't be into the trickery myself. i know a woman who went by the rules (she told me ) and now she's married. but to me its like she was dying for a ring and a big day and she ended up with a man who was 2nd best.

GreenerGrasss

Go for it anonimousse !! I know so many girls that asked their bfs out (incl me ) Worst case scenario: he says no but you know you tried and there are no what ifs.

The Corinthian

stickybookmark wrote: »

I'd highly recommend this book ''The Rules'' in which this topic is discussed in detail.

That book is essentially the female equivalent of a PUA book for men. If you think this is a good basis for a relationship, then good luck to you and the poor fool who'll fall for you.

At the end of the day it depends on the man's attitude and what kind of approach a woman makes, if she takes the active role. Of the former, I'd imagine there are few men that would object to a woman approaching them, but some men like this to exist, probably because natural selection takes a while to kick in.

They're also generally the same men who dislike the idea that their woman had any sexual history, prior to meeting him. They're also, the ones who will provide for their families, insist their wife stays at home and keep a bit on the side so they have the kind of sex they would never have with their wife, because they "respect" her too much.

So, unless this is your dream man, I don't think you should worry about their reaction to your approaching them, especially if it's negative.

As to the latter, it comes down to how blatant you are. Be forward, but don't put landing lights down your legs. That doesn't mean you shouldn't proposition a man, but it's exactly like a man propositioning a woman; only if it feels right.

Sleepy

stickybookmark wrote: »

Strobe, the biggest argument I would have with your post is that I do believe that girls witholding sex (which is a key part of the Rules) does weed out the players. A player like the Keith you describe is only going to wait so long for sex like. He's only going to pay for so many meals/go on so many dates and if he's not getting what he wants, he will eventually bugger off and find an easier target. So following that Rule of not having sex too early can work wonders for girls to weed out players. The genuine guys are far more likely to hang around and wait.

Or he'll assume they're incompatible because while she clearly see sex as a commodity to be bought with meals / date, he'd rather an equal who can pay her own way in life and who actually desires him rather than endures sex with him when he's "earned" it.

What you're also missing is that any girl (I won't call anyone this naieve a woman) who plays by "the rules" makes it very easy for herself to be played by them: all the guy who wants to get her into bed has to do is incorporate that particular volume of psycho-babble into his PUA reading.