Accident, thoughts ?

Jimbo_1

Hi,

was in a small scrape earlier today (broad daylight, sun shining).

Came off the M50, and onto the N7 - into Lane 1, which due to road works you have to merge right out of.

So, at 3 pm the traffic was heavy and I drove to where the line of cars were indicating right, to merge ... and they were being let in. I also had a line of cars behind me.

To my right were two trucks and a space between, I was indicating right and drove into the space, not enough to be completely clear but enough to go clear when the lights ahead turned green and the traffic moved.

The truck driver then drove into the back-end of my driver's door as I was pulling away, so I was quite a way across the lane and he could obviously see me, but I can't explain why he did it, except later he said he didn't see me ... personally I think he was doing it out of spite as he thought I was 100% wrong, which he also claimed.

Rang the guards, decent fella came along and said I was crossing into his lane, so his right of way, but otoh he had no right to drive through me. Gone to the insurers now, expect to get a 50/50 verdict, might appeal.

Was basically driving decently, in traffic at roadworks. I understand the rules of the road but wonder if a judge would look favourably, considering the road conditions and the fact he deliberately (or incredibly negligently) caused the accident.

Thanks,

Jimbo.

colm_mcm

What angle were you at for him to hit your drivers door?

Jimbo_1

colm_mcm wrote: »

What angle were you at for him to hit your drivers door?

about 30% turned right, maybe more

colm_mcm

I can't see a judge being fully on your side. You're supposed to keep a reasonable distance between yourself and the car in front. If you drive across a truck in their blind spot without room to actually fit properly in the lane then I can't see how its all their fault.

07Lapierre

50/50...I doubt it'll get as far as a courtroom.

CiniO

Jimbo_1 wrote: »

Hi,

was in a small scrape earlier today (broad daylight, sun shining).

Was this in Ireland?

Tin Foil Hat

Truck drivers have an absolutely huge blind spot at the front passenger corner of their vehicles. I wouldn't dream of cutting in front of a truck so closely on that side. Remember the old cliche - "If you can't see the driver, then the driver can't see you". You'll be lucky to get away with 50/50 to be honest.

CiniO

You said trucks were to your right.
You must have approached front left corner of the truck. If you were close enough, there is a big change truck driver really didn't see you.

Jimbo_1

CiniO wrote: »

You said trucks were to your right.
You must have approached front left corner of the truck. If you were close enough, there is a big change truck driver really didn't see you.

ok, that's fair enough if the blind spot is like so, but shouldn't he be more careful in that case - there's roadworks ahead, and a long line of merging cars down his left hand side ?

colm_mcm

He was going along grand till you pulled out to be fair. I don't think anyone's gonna tell you it was all the truck drivers fault.

07Lapierre

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Truck drivers have an absolutely huge blind spot at the front passenger corner of their vehicles. I wouldn't dream of cutting in front of a truck so closely on that side. Remember the old cliche - "If you can't see the driver, then the driver can't see you". You'll be lucky to get away with 50/50 to be honest.

CiniO wrote: »

You said trucks were to your right.
You must have approached front left corner of the truck. If you were close enough, there is a big change truck driver really didn't see you.

Valid points ..... 50/50 seems optimistic.

cruais

Jimbo_1 wrote: »

ok, that's fair enough if the blind spot is like so, but shouldn't he be more careful in that case - there's roadworks ahead, and a long line of merging cars down his left hand side ?

But if he really didnt see you well then he obviously thought he was clear to move.

Jimbo_1

I also don't see how he doesn't see across the car, i.e. to at least the end of the bonnet on my passenger's side. I've all that car length in front of him. (and it's a decent size car, just to add).

cruais

Jimbo_1 wrote: »

I also don't see how he doesn't see across the car, i.e. to at least the end of the bonnet on my passenger's side. I've all that car length in front of him. (and it's a decent size car, just to add).

Did you get any witness reports?

Bigcheeze

CiniO wrote: »

You said trucks were to your right.
You must have approached front left corner of the truck. If you were close enough, there is a big change truck driver really didn't see you.

He's at the merge point of two lanes of traffic. I think he chose not to see the op.

colm_mcm

I may be wrong here but isn't the correct thing to do to
Indicate
Stay in lane
Wait for a gap big enough to fit in safely
Manouver?

Technically wouldn't driving across the front of a truck at an angle without any indication from the driver that it was ok to cut them up be wrong?

Jimbo_1

cruais wrote: »

Did you get any witness reports?

guard took details. truck driver wouldn't move so everything was in place when he arrived.

Jimbo_1

colm_mcm wrote: »

I may be wrong here but isn't the correct thing to do to
Indicate
Stay in lane
Wait for a gap big enough to fit in safely
Manouver??

And if anyone disobeys these laws you have carte blanche to take them out !?

Del2005

Jimbo_1 wrote: »

ok, that's fair enough if the blind spot is like so, but shouldn't he be more careful in that case - there's roadworks ahead, and a long line of merging cars down his left hand side ?

You're the one who should have been more careful as you where changing lanes. If your in the blind spot no matter how careful the driver is they can't see you. It could be said he was careful as if he wasn't you're car would be destroyed and you possibly injured, there's a lot of energy in even a slow moving truck. The rule for dealing with large vehicles is to make sure you can see the driver's eyes otherwise they can't see you.

There was a directive several years ago that all new trucks have to have a mirror above the windscreen as too many people where getting injured walking in front of trucks, how old was the one you hit?

djimi

Gardai will only note what they see; they are not a witness statement.

To be honest it sounds an awful lot like you were trying to squeeze into a space that wasnt there, at such an angle in front of a truck that he might not have seen you. Without a witness its your word against his, which is why it will possibly end up 50/50.

Mycroft H

Rubbish, I've been driving an 18t occasionally as part of my job and if the trucks cyclops mirror was adjusted right he should have a close view of the front of the cab. Every HGV above 7.5t should have one since 2012 (older ones had to be retrofitted)



That's the mirror up the top right of the windscreen.

Jimbo_1

Del2005 wrote: »

how old was the one you hit?

It was '04

djimi wrote: »

Gardai will only note what they see; they are not a witness statement.

Thanks for that, didn't know.

Patrickheg

djimi wrote: »

Gardai will only note what they see; they are not a witness statement.

To be honest it sounds an awful lot like you were trying to squeeze into a space that wasnt there, at such an angle in front of a truck that he might not have seen you. Without a witness its your word against his, which is why it will possibly end up 50/50.

Don't forget this which should be on all trucks

http://www.rsa.ie/PageFiles/4803/RSA_Consultation_Class_VI_Mirrors_.pdf

Jimbo_1

Mycroft H wrote: »

Rubbish, I've been driving an 18t occasionally as part of my job and if the trucks cyclops mirror was adjusted right he should have a close view of the front of the cab. Every HGV above 7.5t should have one since 2012 (older ones had to be retrofitted)

Patrickheg wrote: »

Don't forget this which should be on all trucks

http://www.rsa.ie/PageFiles/4803/RSA_Consultation_Class_VI_Mirrors_.pdf

Thanks both, that's very interesting.

Edit: I actually didn't notice but I presume a Traffic Guard would look to see if it was in place ? From fairly vauge recollection I think he did have one in place.

Also, to give some context, he wouldn't swap details, didn't seem to have a driving licence as he produced his passport in lieu (though driving an Irish vehicle) (he was foreign) ... and the guard had to get his details for me.

fineso.mom

Hard to believe a truck driver would deliberately drive into to someone out of spite,,at the very least most if not all of them are under time pressure. Why would one cause an accident on a busy road knowing they would have to wait for a guard to come to sort it, holding them up for how long? Risking a likely chewing out by their boss and a day in court ? Maybe he didn't check that mirror so was partially at fault or maybe he didn't have one but to suggest he intentionally ran into you ???

Mycroft H

Could have been as simple as not paying attention. If you don't look in that mirror, that car is as good as not there.

Jimbo_1

fineso.mom wrote: »

to suggest he intentionally ran into you ???

That's fair enough, I'm not saying he did. His behaviour did seem like it was possibly though, as he jumped out pretty quickly and started ranting about his lane.

It's just either that or negligence, I'm not judging it.

fineso.mom

Maybe he knew he made a mistake by not checking the Cyclops and the rant was a reaction to the fright he got after hitting you , anyway main thing is you're ok. Good luck with the case, 50/50 probably fair.

delly

As a side note, I've thought previously why don't trucks have the same overhang mirrors that coaches have, assuming they are a better design.

Jimbo_1

fineso.mom wrote: »

Maybe he knew he made a mistake by not checking the Cyclops and the rant was a reaction to the fright he got after hitting you , anyway main thing is you're ok. Good luck with the case, 50/50 probably fair.

thanks, no real damage done - not to his anyway, just his bumper took some of my paint - and both with same insurer so should be hassle free - will hit the insurance premium though.

Dubl07

Were there no road signs about the lane closure prior to the line of traffic waiting to merge? Generally there is plenty of notice and most decent drivers move lanes well before the roadworks themselves. I get really p!ssed off when people, even those in big cars with long bonnets, zoom up the closing lane after I've taken steps to move into the open lane well in advance. If said individuals felt entitled to jump in front of me without so much as a precautionary glance and I was driving a Hummer or a lorry I might develop a blind spot.

CiniO

Dubl07 wrote: »

Were there no road signs about the lane closure prior to the line of traffic waiting to merge? Generally there is plenty of notice and most decent drivers move lanes well before the roadworks themselves. I get really p!ssed off when people, even those in big cars with long bonnets, zoom up the closing lane after I've taken steps to move into the open lane well in advance. If said individuals felt entitled to jump in front of me without so much as a precautionary glance and I was driving a Hummer or a lorry I might develop a blind spot.

You might be surprised, but what you described is generally the best way of merging when two lanes become one (f.e. because of road works). To drive to very end and merge there in zip rule (one by one from each lane).
This method (called "zip method") is strongly advised in many other countries.
I don't understand why drivers in Ireland think it's a good idea to merge from closing lane to open lane well in advance. This just causes unnecessery tailbacks.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

You might be surprised, but what you described is generally the best way of merging when two lanes become one (f.e. because of road works). To drive to very end and merge there in zip rule (one by one from each lane).
This method (called "zip method") is strongly advised in many other countries.
I don't understand why drivers in Ireland think it's a good idea to merge from closing lane to open lane well in advance. This just causes unnecessery tailbacks.

Does it really make much of a difference? Traffics going to have to slow at some point; usually its easier to find some space further back from the lane closure.

djimi

Mycroft H wrote: »

Could have been as simple as not paying attention. If you don't look in that mirror, that car is as good as not there.

To be honest, I think its all just guesswork based on one side of the story. The OP already admitted that they tried to merge into a space that wasnt big enough; its entirely possible that they genuinely took the truck driver by surprise by diving into a gap that wasnt there. Or the truck driver might just have been acting the prick. Both scenarios are possible, and we dont really have any way of knowing which really happened.

Jimbo_1

Dubl07 wrote: »

Were there no road signs about the lane closure prior to the line of traffic waiting to merge? Generally there is plenty of notice and most decent drivers move lanes well before the roadworks themselves

In fairness it wasn't very far until the end of the lane and the traffic was heavy, of course if you get an opening you should take it (carefully) but, say if I was to stop and look for a gap the traffic would have been back the M50...

Jimbo_1

CiniO wrote: »

This method (called "zip method") is strongly advised in many other countries.

I think in Austria and Germany it's in their rules of the road. Totally sensible, to me anyway. Each car must let one car in.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Does it really make much of a difference? Traffics going to have to slow at some point; usually its easier to find some space further back from the lane closure.

It does.
If you saw it working, you would probably think the same.

Just when everyone knows how to act and vehicles are going one by one from each lane, everything goes much smoother, then drivers randomly trying to change lanes in random spots before the lane closure.
If someone tries to change lane to yours, you want to be nice and slow down or stop. This person merges to your lane, but hundreds of drivers behind in you traffic jam has to slow down or stop then.

Hard to explain in words. If you saw it working, you would know where is the difference.

Jimbo_1

well, thanks for your input all

had a look at the damage today and the door has sprung back out, just a couple of small dents, and while it's a nice car it has good mileage already so happy to leave it be. His truck had nothing wrong, front corner bumper took the impact and sprung straight back out.

probably didn't need to call the guards, but it's something I've always been told to do,

just concerned about the insurance loading, now that I've been in an accident, sigh ...