Rugby League Converts

Bridge93

With the news that it appears Sam Burgess is on the verge of switching codes to union, I was wondering who do people think has been the player that has made the greatest impact upon crossing over?
There have been a few that have been very successful:
Jason Robinson, Jonathan Davies, Israel Folau, Brad Thorn, Sonny Bill and so on.

I would have to say personally I think Jason Robinson was brilliant after swapping league for union, but Folau could well surpass him.

What do you's think? Can anyone name more?

SD Sportsman

In England I can remember Chris Ashton, Shontane Hape and your man Vainikolo coming over to union, with Ashton the most obvious success.
I'd go along with Robinson being the most successful but Davies was a very good player in his day too.
Would love to see Burgess switch codes.

CatFromHue

Tuqiri and Robinson would prob be the pick of the backs.

Thorn the pick in the forwards.

Bridge93

I forgot about Tuqiri actually.

jc4517

Can't wait to see what Benji Marshall gets up to with the Blues.. For anyone who doesn't know who he is, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kboCHWOdfHw

WorldRugby99

jonathan davies wasnt a league convert-played union,went to league then came back again-like scott gibbs/scott quinnell.

Theres no doubting that the very best rugby league players are great athletes but union is obviously a much more technical game with so many rules etc,so its no surprise most of the better converts-jason robinson,israel folau,lote tuquiri,chris ashton have been wingers where the basics are more similar.

Many of the league players have been deemed to be flops which i always think to be unfair.They are world class performers in their sport trying a slightly different one,and are expected to just suddenly be top class players. in an ideal world you would have them playing second team rugby for a season or two to learn the game but instead are thrown straight in the deep end with huge expectation and its no surprise only a few succeed,many fail.

Looking forward to how benji marshall fares and sam burgess too if he crosses-and where they play

Bridge93

I'd have thought Burgess would go to 12?

CatFromHue

I think that's why Jason Robinson did so well. He seemed to be mentored and managed far better than other recruits.

ColmH81

Vanikolo was an absolute flop... Handful of alright games.. And he's now playing for some second division French team.. Pity really, cos he's was an animal for Bradford..

thomond2006

ColmH81 wrote: »

Vanikolo was an absolute flop... Handful of alright games.. And he's now playing for some second division French team.. Pity really, cos he's was an animal for Bradford..

He was playing for La Rochelle in ProD2 but now he's playing in Federale 1, the third division.

Digifriendly

Kyle Eastmond seems to be doing well at Bath after a somewhat inauspicious start.

bamboozle

Allan Bateman and John Bentley were two that always stood out for me, their power and speed was unreal. (though both may have played union previously)

at that time at the turn to professionalism the return and impact of the likes of Gibbs, Quinnell and Tait had a big impact on the players around them, they were different physical players to those turning pro.

Jason Robinson was class, Tuqiri, Mat Rogers and Wendall Sailor all had serious impacts for oz.

AngeGal

jc4517 wrote: »

Can't wait to see what Benji Marshall gets up to with the Blues.. For anyone who doesn't know who he is, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kboCHWOdfHw

Wow, the whole 15 minutes is insane, but 5.09 is just incredible.

former legend

Think Thorn and Robinson are the only real contenders here.

The "biggest flop" thread would be a much longer debate.

Swiwi.

Folau. Mat Rogers had his moments (good & bad). Daryl Halligan (union to league) was very successful.

GiftofGab

Falou will surpass them all. 8 tries in 4 games this year for the Waratahs. I haven't seen him as much this year as I did last year but the guy has everything. He did great at the Lions tour but he was still learning the game then. I think we will really see him shine at this years rugby championship.

razorblunt

Henry Paul lads. Henry. Paul.

shrapnel222

Although he didn't set the union world on fire as a player, his League resume is enormous, and his contribution to union is now proving immense as he now looks well on course to be the next England coach after Lancaster moves to the boardroom, so Andy Farrell for me.

justsomebloke

left of field answer of Shaun Edwards

Stev_o

Generally the younger you are switching over the greater chance of success you had. Don't forget Karmichael Hunt one year in France and was starting at OH in the HC final.

Yeah_Right

Stev_o wrote: »

Generally the younger you are switching over the greater chance of success you had. Don't forget Karmichael Hunt one year in France and was starting at OH in the HC final.

What?? When was this? I don't remember him playing rugby.

WorldRugby99

shrapnel222 wrote: »

Although he didn't set the union world on fire as a player, his League resume is enormous, and his contribution to union is now proving immense as he now looks well on course to be the next England coach after Lancaster moves to the boardroom, so Andy Farrell for me.

i think i read andy farrell made his debut for wigan aged 16! and was playing for great britain at 18. He came to union too late,was too old and was carrying injuries so had little impact.

Got to agree about israel folau-anyone whos been watching super rugby this year will have seen hes been sensational.He could well be the star of next years world cup. That aussie backline with genia,cooper,beale,folau could be brilliant over next couple of years.

touts

Maybe back in the days before Union went professional (both in fact and in approach) the Rugby League guys had a greater level of fitness and often talent. Now I'm not so sure. I watched some of the Rugby League World Cup when it was on TV and I wan't impressed. A lad gets the ball. Jogs up to a couple of the opposition who give him a nice big hug until the ref says enough lads. Then he sort of rolled it back to the next guy who needed a hug who obligingly ran up for his turn at some loving. Every now and then they passed it out to some guy on the wing who was secure enough in himself not to need a hug and he just jogged past the lads standing waiting with their arms open and touched the ball down to the adoring cheers of a couple of thousand supporters.

And that was their World Cup. With their best players!

Stev_o

Yeah_Right wrote: »

What?? When was this? I don't remember him playing rugby.

Played with Biarritz before moving to AFL, famously was part of the team that beat Munster and got to the HC final in what was one of the worst finals in the history of the comp.

Stev_o

touts wrote: »

Maybe back in the days before Union went professional (both in fact and in approach) the Rugby League guys had a greater level of fitness and often talent. Now I'm not so sure. I watched some of the Rugby League World Cup when it was on TV and I wan't impressed. A lad gets the ball. Jogs up to a couple of the opposition who give him a nice big hug until the ref says enough lads. Then he sort of rolled it back to the next guy who needed a hug who obligingly ran up for his turn at some loving. Every now and then they passed it out to some guy on the wing who was secure enough in himself not to need a hug and he just jogged past the lads standing waiting with their arms open and touched the ball down to the adoring cheers of a couple of thousand supporters.

And that was their World Cup. With their best players!

Now consider that Ireland's defensive system comes from all this "hugging".

pickarooney

The group hugs in rugby union are much more spiritually rewarding.

justsomebloke

Stev_o wrote: »

Now consider that Ireland's defensive system comes from all this "hugging".

and why my left of field nominee was Shaun Edwards. Don't think he ever played professional rugby union but the overall impact of his defensive coaching style developed from League and their "hugging" system has had a major impact on the game of Union

GiftofGab

touts wrote: »

Maybe back in the days before Union went professional (both in fact and in approach) the Rugby League guys had a greater level of fitness and often talent. Now I'm not so sure. I watched some of the Rugby League World Cup when it was on TV and I wan't impressed. A lad gets the ball. Jogs up to a couple of the opposition who give him a nice big hug until the ref says enough lads. Then he sort of rolled it back to the next guy who needed a hug who obligingly ran up for his turn at some loving. Every now and then they passed it out to some guy on the wing who was secure enough in himself not to need a hug and he just jogged past the lads standing waiting with their arms open and touched the ball down to the adoring cheers of a couple of thousand supporters.

And that was their World Cup. With their best players!

All the best players play club rugby in Australia.

Watch the state of Origin.....immense.

I've been to a few league games in Melbourne and they are surprisingly good. It's all go go go with very little stop starts like in Union (hate comparing the two sports). The skill is amazing too.

former legend

GiftofGab wrote: »

I've been to a few league games in Melbourne and they are surprisingly good. It's all go go go with very little stop starts like in Union (hate comparing the two sports). The skill is amazing too.

If there were no rucks, mauls, scrums* or lineouts in union, it would have fewer stoppages too.

*yes, I know.

hahashake

Technically the game stops every time someone is tackled in League but it such a short amount of time it barely registers as stoppage to the average RL fan.

For me, Brad Thorn is the greatest convert. I probably don't need to mention his extensive resume but fair to say he's won basically everything in both codes. Jason Robinson a close second. SBW could've been a great in Rugby had he not left just as he was peaking and some might say the same for his League career, although to be fair he did win POTY in League last year as well as being a key player in a GF winning NRL team. Folau will probably become one of the greats, not just as a convert but as a rugby player in general. He's already had a very auspicious start to his career.

RL still poaches young RU players, most of them straight from school or barely out of school so they don't get picked up as converts to most people. Take the RLWC final last year, both Jared Warea-Hargreaves and Andrew Fifita were in super rugby junior sides and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Cooper Cronk played RU in highschool. NRL age grade sides are stacked with guys straight from NZ 1st XV sides. For me though, RU is still getting the right end of the stick by getting genuine superstars like Folau, SBW, Benji Marshall, Sam Burgess etc. to convert. Imagine a situation where RU lost guys like Lomu to RL, which wasn't unthinkable at the time.

On Benji Marshall, it seems as if his powers have waned in the past few years. Certainly in the NRL he was no longer producing as much magic and I haven't seen anything in super rugby that makes me think he will even be above average.

WinnyThePoo

Wasn't there an Irish guy who played in Rugby League in England and then moved codes and played for Munster?. Not sure if he was a success or not, think he got a cap for Ireland though.

jacothelad

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Wasn't there an Irish guy who played in Rugby League in England and then moved codes and played for Munster?. Not sure if he was a success or not, think he got a cap for Ireland though.

There was but we don't talk about it in case children are listening.

Yeah_Right

hahashake wrote: »

For me, Brad Thorn is the greatest convert. I probably don't need to mention his extensive resume but fair to say he's won basically everything in both codes.

RL still poaches young RU players, most of them straight from school or barely out of school so they don't get picked up as converts to most people. Take the RLWC final last year, both Jared Warea-Hargreaves and Andrew Fifita were in super rugby junior sides and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck and Cooper Cronk played RU in highschool. NRL age grade sides are stacked with guys straight from NZ 1st XV sides. For me though, RU is still getting the right end of the stick by getting genuine superstars like Folau, SBW, Benji Marshall, Sam Burgess etc. to convert. Imagine a situation where RU lost guys like Lomu to RL, which wasn't unthinkable at the time.

Totally agree with the bolded bit. If he had taken up boxing he would be the undisputed heavy weight champ of the world and Ali would be calling him The Greatest.

Its interesting that some of Australia's greats in RL all had a union background. Mal Meninga, Michael O'Connor and Ricky Stuart were all union players originally, I believe (could be wrong).

Riskymove

jacothelad wrote: »

There was but we don't talk about it in case children are listening.

"He who cannot be named" :eek: *shiver*

Sir Chops

Brian Carney from an Eire perspective.

Riskymove

Sir Chops wrote: »

Brian Carney from an Eire perspective.

aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

CatFromHue

Some say if you say his name 3 times in the mirror he appears..... and shoulder charges you!!

desertcircus

This debate begins and ends with Brad Thorn. NRL, State of Origin, Super Rugby, Tri-Nations, RWC and Heineken Cup winner Brad Thorn.

Swiwi.

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

i think i read andy farrell made his debut for wigan aged 16! and was playing for great britain at 18. He came to union too late,was too old and was carrying injuries so had little impact.

Got to agree about israel folau-anyone whos been watching super rugby this year will have seen hes been sensational.He could well be the star of next years world cup. That aussie backline with genia,cooper,beale,folau could be brilliant over next couple of years.

Ireland are well coached but if Aussie bring out genia cooper cummins Beale kurudrani Speight folau that back line would take some stopping in the AIs.

Morf

How did Mark Gasnier get on with Stade Francais when he was there?

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ireland are well coached but if Aussie bring out genia cooper cummins Beale kurudrani Speight folau that back line would take some stopping in the AIs.

It's not a case necessarily of us matching their backline for flair/firepower, it's our defence shutting them down. We might not be able to put out a backline with that much flair but that's not how games are won

Morf

Tox56 wrote: »

We might not be able to put out a backline with that much flair but that's not how games are won

The Wallabies did it two or three times vs NZ early under Deans.

Out-played and cut NZ open several times.

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

It's not a case necessarily of us matching their backline for flair/firepower, it's our defence shutting them down. We might not be able to put out a backline with that much flair but that's not how games are won

Yes sir. I'll consider myself schooled.

It will be more a case of whether the Australian forward pack can be outplayed. If Aussie get parity or better, that backline will score tries. Especially with a brand spanking new 13 on defence.

Tox56

Morf wrote: »

The Wallabies did it two or three times vs NZ early under Deans.

Out-played and cut NZ open several times.

Yeah I guess I articulated that pretty poorly

What I'm saying is that a potential irish backline of say Murray Sexton Fitzgerald Marshall Payne Bowe Kearney will have attacking threat and if the (so far generally excellent) defence gives them a chance they can out score the opposition, even if it doesn't have as much flair and firepower on paper. I'm not suggesting we play 10 man rugby here to negate their backline

If Aus really turn it on obviously we're in trouble but it should be a cracking game either way.. I already can't wait..

ColmH81

Morf wrote: »

How did Mark Gasnier get on with Stade Francais when he was there?

"Gasnier also scored a brilliant solo try beating eight defenders in a 30 metre run to the line in Stade Français' 23–18 victory over French rivals SC Albigeois"

Nuff said...

Morf

Tox56 wrote: »

Yeah I guess I articulated that pretty poorly

What I'm saying is that a potential irish backline of say Murray Sexton Fitzgerald Marshall Payne Bowe Kearney will have attacking threat and if the (so far generally excellent) defence gives them a chance they can out score the opposition, even if it doesn't have as much flair and firepower on paper. I'm not suggesting we play 10 man rugby here to negate their backline

If Aus really turn it on obviously we're in trouble but it should be a cracking game either way.. I already can't wait..

I can only seem to find one game they won. I remember several where Oz scored off first phase twice or more in games and lost due to being dominated up front and having little possession/poor game management.

Swiwi.

Morf wrote: »

I can only seem to find one game they won. I remember several where Oz scored off first phase twice or more in games and lost due to being dominated up front and having little possession/poor game management.

From memory, Deans first game in charge Aussie thrashed NZ. And all those who said Deans should have got the NZ job ahead of Henry were very smug. Then NZ won pretty much every game from then on, with the exception of Donald's meltdown in Hong Kong. There was also the game pre RWC, with the big Aussie Fijian fella sprinting 60m to score.

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

Yeah I guess I articulated that pretty poorly

What I'm saying is that a potential irish backline of say Murray Sexton Fitzgerald Marshall Payne Bowe Kearney will have attacking threat and if the (so far generally excellent) defence gives them a chance they can out score the opposition, even if it doesn't have as much flair and firepower on paper. I'm not suggesting we play 10 man rugby here to negate their backline

If Aus really turn it on obviously we're in trouble but it should be a cracking game either way.. I already can't wait..

Looking forward to it myself too. I reckon Aussie will definitely beat NZ & SA at least once each this year. It will be a great test of Ireland's defensive mettle, in particular the garyowen tactic is a bit of a non-runner if Folau is playing.

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

Looking forward to it myself too. I reckon Aussie will definitely beat NZ & SA at least once each this year. It will be a great test of Ireland's defensive mettle, in particular the garyowen tactic is a bit of a non-runner if Folau is playing.

Dark horse for the World Cup if they can find a tight 5, and this will be a good opportunity to see where Schmidt goes too.

There might be an irresistible urge to be conservative, keep it tight and take their backline out of the game as much as possible, but there will be just 5 proper games after this Aus match before the RWC kicks off, I'd like to see him expand our game as much as possible, particularly with certain players returning. He's a backs coach first and foremost so that should be his instinct

former legend

Swiwi. wrote: »

From memory, Deans first game in charge Aussie thrashed NZ. And all those who said Deans should have got the NZ job ahead of Henry were very smug. Then NZ won pretty much every game from then on, with the exception of Donald's meltdown in Hong Kong. There was also the game pre RWC, with the big Aussie Fijian fella sprinting 60m to score.

A thing of beauty;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLaSAxYQmns

Swiwi.

former legend wrote: »

A thing of beauty;

With a nice table thump by Robbie to top it off. NZ basically stuck it up the jumper for the 2nd half of that match, and almost snatched victory. From then on I was always confident the NZ forwards had the better of their Aussie counterparts come RWC time.