Ridiculous Gardai at Checkpoint

Doff

First off I want to say I always found Gardai to be fair and never had a problem with them until today.

I got a new car recently but haven't sold my old one yet because its due its NCT in 2 days (Going to put it through that first before selling). The NCT ran out near the end of last month. It also isn't taxed because it hasn't been drove since about the start of December, its tax ran out the end of November. The car was in my mothers house because where I live I only have a permit for 1 car. The NCT test is at 9 in the morning and I will be very busy tomorrow so decided to get the car today and bring it to my house (I have a guest permit that works up to 3 days) then from there, bring it to the NCT center. I live just across from the NCT center while my mothers house is the complete opposite end of town. I had rang the Gardai before and asked about driving it while it is due for NCT and was told if I had the booking confirmation I would be fine, with a bit of discretion with the Gardai involved.

So the problem I encountered today. I was driving the car from my mothers house to mine when I got stopped at a checkpoint. I was asked to pull in as I had expected and the Gardai approached the window. Again I say I have always found Gardai to be reasonable and decent but this person just did not give a ****. Unfortunately for me my license was in the glove box of my other car. They wrote this down, they then issued me a fine for not having tax and stated I would be receiving 5 penalty points for not having a valid NCT. I tried to explain but they wouldn't even let me speak. Then lastly they said, if you do not pay the fine you will be summoned to court and they walked off.

I have never had an interaction with such a cold hearted person. I cannot believe how unfairly I was treated. Is there anything I can do at all in this situation?

Any help is greatly appreciated, sorry if this is the wrong forum I was thinking of posting in Legal but figured motorists might have some experience on the issues.

Thank you.

TwoShedsJackson

I had rang the Gardai before and asked about driving it while it is due for NCT and was told if I had the booking confirmation I would be fine, with a bit of discretion with the Gardai involved.

The 'discretion' is the problem - most of the time they'll let you off, but they are also able to do you for no NCT if they feel like it, which he obviously did.

Voodoomelon

From reading the NCT points chart here, it appears you have to go to court regardless. I didn't realise this was the case, perhaps it changed since mid last year.

You might well have a case if you have the car booked in for an NCT or if you can prove you had intent to get it tested. Either way i'd be getting a solicitor if you don't fancy the maximum penalty/points.

Anan1

I think you're allowed to drive a car to the test without a valid NCT. It sounds, to me at least, like that's what you were doing. I'd write to that Garda's super.

SleeperService

I believe you are allowed no NCT on the actual day of the NCT, so you would have been fine on that count from midnight technically. No goodd to you now tho.

Doff

Would legal aid cover it? Honestly I'm shocked at how I was treated. I'll never understand how someone could treat someone in that way I personally wouldn't have it in me at all to do that to someone

Also thanks to everyone for the replies, I'm trying to figure out whats the next step I should take.

Anan1

Doff wrote: »

Would legal aid cover it? Honestly I'm shocked at how I was treated. I'll never understand how someone could treat someone in that way I personally wouldn't have it in me at all to do that to someone

Also thanks to everyone for the replies, I'm trying to figure out whats the next step I should take.

First off, this might be the last you hear of it. It's not unknown for Gardaí to blow smoke and leave it at that. If you do get a summons then you'll have to go to court and explain the situation to the judge. In the meantime i'd find out the exact law with regard to driving the car to the test.

Guy:Incognito

Presumably there was no valid discs in the window at all? Was it insured?

Regardless of what a Gard told you on the phone, driving without them is going to irk some other gards so unless he was going to escort you (did you tell him the tax was out too?) I'd work on the assumption your on your own. Never rely on discretion, especially when it's 3rd hand.

afatbollix

You have the right to appeal, It's up to you if you fancy your chances in court.

The Gardai was doing his job and by the book by the looks of things. You cant change that now unless you appeal.

debabyjesus

Doff wrote: »

Honestly I'm shocked at how I was treated.

You were driving with no tax, nct or licence?

Guy:Incognito

Anan1 wrote: »

In the meantime i'd find out the exact law with regard to driving the car to the test.

Without checking I'd say it might cover actually driving it to the test centre, not moving it around the day before. For all the Gard knows he's been driving it around the whole time with no tax or NCT.

Doff

Anan1 wrote: »

First off, this might be the last you hear of it. It's not unknown for Gardaí to blow smoke and leave it at that. If you do get a summons then you'll have to go to court and explain the situation to the judge. In the meantime i'd find out the exact law with regard to driving the car to the test.

I really wouldn't say this is the end of it, I would love it to be true though.

If I was to go to the station and produce my license and NCT form there would that benefit at all? I guess there is nothing I can do about the tax except get the fine? Sorry for all the questions I'm just really confused on the issue.

Should I ring the station and ask about driving to the NCT?

I think I'm just going to go into the station with my license and NCT letter and hope to god I can get some of this sorted

slimjimmc

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Without checking I'd say it might cover actually driving it to the test centre, not moving it around the day before. For all the Gard knows he's been driving it around the whole time with no tax or NCT.

I'm not so sure it covers you on the way to the test centre but it does allow you to drive from it but only if you were refused a test cert. As you said, certainly not in the days before or after the test.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0567.html

5) This Regulation does not apply to a vehicle—
(a) first registered prior to 1 January 1980,
(b) which is used solely on an off-shore island,
(c) on the day on which a test certificate in respect of the vehicle had been refused, or
(d) which is owned or operated by the Garda Síochána or the Defence Forces.

challengemaster

Doff wrote: »

I have never had an interaction with such a cold hearted person. I cannot believe how unfairly I was treated. Is there anything I can do at all in this situation?

You weren't treated unfairly - the law was applied to you, rather than the typical garda 'be grand/wave on' which you were counting on. You drove without tax and NCT knowingly. To be completely honest, it's about time they started doing their job and pulled more people with no NCT.

Greyfoot

Probably he had an argument with the missus and took it out on you. Happens everyday everywhere..

corktina

you won't "receive 5 points" , the Court will decide that.

I'm surprised they didn't seize the car.

You are technically in the wrong on both the tax and NCT issues, you'll have to wait and see what happens now. Make sure you get it through the test asap and keep all the paperwork, a lenient Judge may give you a break.

whomitconcerns

as all have said OP its down to discretion, but no tax or nct or licence really does push them as far as they can go...so I have to say i understand their reaction...

You don't mention insurance, were you insured? If not count yourself VERY lucky..and don't do it again.

Moneymaker

You see an absurd amount of cars without tax or nct too.

Seen an old Corrolla today that hasn't been taxed for over a year and NCT expired in Summer 2012 :eek:

No Pants

Doff wrote: »

If I was to go to the station and produce my license and NCT form there would that benefit at all? I guess there is nothing I can do about the tax except get the fine? Sorry for all the questions I'm just really confused on the issue.

Worth a try. Bring all documentation you can to the station; licence, NCT booking date, proof of insurance. I know there was nothing said about the licence, but the more proof you can show that you're not a complete chancer the better.

I'm assuming you have insurance.

For the NCT, as others have posted, you're allowed to drive without it on the day of the test. The Guard may not believe your story, but if you can show that it is booked for tomorrow and was booked some time ago...who knows.

I can't think of a way out for the motor tax. You're not even allowed to park an untaxed car on the public road outside your house. I'm surprised the car wasn't seized.

Doff

I'll just ignore the tryhard trolls.

whomitconcerns wrote: »

as all have said OP its down to discretion, but no tax or nct or licence really does push them as far as they can go...so I have to say i understand their reaction...

You don't mention insurance, were you insured? If not count yourself VERY lucky..and don't do it again.

The insurance is still on it. I had the car serviced just before I stopped driving it because I intended to sell it but was told to hold on until it got the NCT as it would be worth more with a fresh NCT. I would never intentionally drive a car around with no tax or NCT for everyday use it was literally a once off because I didn't have the time to get it between now and the NCT booking.

corktina

Doff wrote: »

I'll just ignore the tryhard trolls.



The insurance is still on it. I had the car serviced just before I stopped driving it because I intended to sell it but was told to hold on until it got the NCT as it would be worth more with a fresh NCT. I would never intentionally drive a car around with no tax or NCT for everyday use it was literally a once off because I didn't have the time to get it between now and the NCT booking.

you have two cars insured?

Del2005

How have you got cover on the 2 cars? Unless you have a policy for each car or where allowed 2 on the same policy, which I haven't heard of, you could be in bigger trouble if the Garda follows up.

Where you asked to produce?

Anan1

Doff wrote: »

I'll just ignore the tryhard trolls.



The insurance is still on it. I had the car serviced just before I stopped driving it because I intended to sell it but was told to hold on until it got the NCT as it would be worth more with a fresh NCT. I would never intentionally drive a car around with no tax or NCT for everyday use it was literally a once off because I didn't have the time to get it between now and the NCT booking.

First thing you need to do is lose the chip. Appealing to the better nature of the Gardaí may help your case, abusing them for doing their job will not.

RustyNut

You were driving with no nct or tax and had no licence with you. You are getting done for driving with no nct and tax.
I'm not seeing how you were treated unfairly.

How do you think the Gardai should deal with people who are breaking the law when they stop them at checkpoints ?

Doff

Anan1 wrote: »

First thing you need to do is lose the attitude.

What attitude? Also where have I abused them, I have always had respect for the Gardai and the job they do it was just this particular instance I felt I didn't have a fair chance.

Also I am insured on both cars so that isn't a problem thankfully.

stoneill

You took the risk - you got caught.
That's all that needs to be said about that.

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

I think you're allowed to drive a car to the test without a valid NCT. It sounds, to me at least, like that's what you were doing. I'd write to that Garda's super.

No, you are not.
There is no law allowing to drive a car to NCT centre when NCT is expired.

There is however law allowing to drive a car which is untaxed and "declared off the road" to the test centre for purposes of the test.

I'm not sure if driving a car day before the test might be included in that exception. It's probably for the court to decide.

Anan1

Doff wrote: »

What attitude? Also where have I abused them, I have always had respect for the Gardai and the job they do it was just this particular instance I felt I didn't have a fair chance.

Also I am insured on both cars so that isn't a problem thankfully.

Look, you were caught driving without either tax or a valid NCT. The Gardaí were doing their job. It's not mean-spirited, it's not cold-hearted, it's the law and we pay them to enforce it. You've just accused people of trolling when they drew your attention to these simple, undeniable facts. That's the attitude you need to lose before you go anywhere near a judge.

Doff

Ok well I think I have the information I need I'll just ask a mod to close this thread seeing as all the wannabe trolls are festering here.

Thank you for the advice (For the people who helped)

Tigger

if the cars not taxed is it declared off -road?
otherwise you might be hit with arrears

CiniO

Tigger wrote: »

if the cars not taxed is it declared off -road?
otherwise you might be hit with arrears

He is selling the car so he won't be hit with arrears.

slimjimmc

No Pants wrote: »

Worth a try. Bring all documentation you can to the station; licence, NCT booking date, proof of insurance. I know there was nothing said about the licence, but the more proof you can show that you're not a complete chancer the better.

I'm assuming you have insurance.

For the NCT, as others have posted, you're allowed to drive without it on the day of the test. The Guard may not believe your story, but if you can show that it is booked for tomorrow and was booked some time ago...who knows.

I can't think of a way out for the motor tax. You're not even allowed to park an untaxed car on the public road outside your house. I'm surprised the car wasn't seized.

I wouldn't be so sure that covers driving to the test centre. It used to be the case that you could drive to the test but the wording was changed and the new wording suggests you can only drive without an NCT for the rest of the day after having failed the test.

RustyNut

CiniO wrote: »

He is selling the car so he won't be hit with arrears.

He was caught driving it. He is on the hook for 3 months.

Tigger

CiniO wrote: »

He is selling the car so he won't be hit with arrears.

but if the judge realises that it wasn't taxed he will
its only if you don use it then sell it that you avoid arrears
or if the car is declared off road and you only use it to go to and from the nct

zarquon

Doff wrote: »

Ok well I think I have the information I need I'll just ask a mod to close this thread seeing as all the wannabe trolls are festering here.

Thank you for the advice (For the people who helped)

There was no trolling in this thread that i could see, just honest advice and open conversation. Don't ask for advice if you are going to react badly to what you hear. If your reaction here in any way mirrors how you reacted to the Garda in question i could understand stand why Garda discretion was not used to let you off.

You took a risk and met an overzealous Garda. By the letter of the law the Garda was within his rights to penalize you as he did. It is very harsh but the Garda has no way of knowing that your trip in the car was an isolated case.

CiniO

RustyNut wrote: »

He was caught driving it. He is on the hook for 3 months.

Tigger wrote: »

but if the judge realises that it wasn't taxed he will
its only if you don use it then sell it that you avoid arrears
or if the car is declared off road and you only use it to go to and from the nct

He was caught driving untaxed vehicle and will probably suffer consequences of doing so.
But I don't think anyone can force him now to pay the tax.

RosieJoe

Still trying to figure out how you are insured on the 2 cars, do you have 2 separate policies? T&Cs on your own policy usually state that you are insured to drive other cars once the other car is not in your name.

RustyNut

CiniO wrote: »

He was caught driving untaxed vehicle and will probably suffer consequences of doing so.
But I don't think anyone can force him now to pay the tax.

I see your point. I was thinking about it comming up before a beek, the first question is allways is it taxed now and have the arrears been payed.

Op is getting off lightly so. They could have seized it.

TestTransmission

Thread closed on request of OP