UN demands Vatican remove all known or suspected child abusers

TeddyTedson

Great to see the UN taking such a hard line on this.
The Vatican has never taken appropriate action or responsibility for the huge amount child abuse which occurred.
I wonder what will be the criteria be for a "suspected child abuser".

Also of note is,

the UN committee also expressed concern about how the Holy See's stance on contraception, abortion and homosexuality was affecting minors.

and

It also said the Vatican needed to launch a full investigation into Ireland's Magdalene Laundries scandal in which thousands of women and girls were abused and enslaved. The report said those who abused and exploited those incarcerated in the laundries run by Irish nuns should be prosecuted if they are still alive.

Source

I personally think it's great to see the Vatican finally having to face up to its long rap sheet. I've nothing against religious people but it's really unbelievable in the way the Vatican consistently went about not facing up to these issues, to put it kindly. The UN seem to be going all out on this one.

JupiterKid

This is good to hear. The Vatican have a lot of stuff hidden away and the child abuse is only part of the rotten core of the institution.

Iwasfrozen

UN "demands?" What right has to UN to make demands from any sovereign nation?

kneemos

Incredible how they have gotten away with this stuff for so long.

Karl Stein

EU states should threaten to seize all RCC property.

Then we'd see action.

Hazys

The first true test of the Pope Francis, is he really the man he's portrayed so far?

Skylinehead

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

UN "demands?" What right has to UN to make demands from any sovereign nation?

Why can't it?

My name is URL

Skylinehead wrote: »

Why can't it?

Considering that governments and police forces ignored, fought against and threatened people making complaints against priests for so long, I wouldn't hold out much hope on the UN forcing anybody's hand on the matter.

Skylinehead

My name is URL wrote: »

Considering that governments and police forces ignored, fought against and threatened people making complaints against priests for so long, I wouldn't hold out much hope on the UN forcing anybody's hand on the matter.

Yes, it's non-binding. I'm querying why Iwasfrozen seems to think there has to be a "right" for the UN to demand something.

kneemos

Skylinehead wrote: »

Yes, it's non-binding. I'm querying why Iwasfrozen seems to think there has to be a "right" for the UN to demand something.

Equivalent to a strongly worded letter I presume except it carries more clout,is public and hard to ignore.Though waiting it out until it's forgotten seems to be normal method of dealing with bad publicity.

My name is URL

Skylinehead wrote: »

Yes, it's non-binding. I'm querying why Iwasfrozen seems to think there has to be a "right" for the UN to demand something.

How can the UN meaningfully demand anything in such context when it has been shown time and time again that such demands can be and are simply ignored?

What real and tangible right does the UN have to dictate to and enforce their decisions on individual nations, and when has it happened before? Look at how many times they've shown themselves to be toothless when it comes to enforcing or securing resolutions regarding the behaviours of the Israeli state.

jobeenfitz

Lots of evil bastards were hidden away by the church all over the world. Wouldn't hold my breath waiting for real and meaningful openness from church now or ever. Shooting would be too good for those involved including the ones who facilitated abusers to move around from place to place doing their evil deeds. The amount of pain and despair they caused to uncountable numbers of children. I also feel sorry for the decent members of the church who must also be suffering the affects of the evil ones. They should set up a tribunal and go after them like they did with the nazi's.

end of rant.

marozz

The first response of the Vatican is to say they will examine the report - but also accused its authors of interference. No surprise there I suppose.

hfallada

They should also ask the Vatican to stop using its bank to wealthy Italians to evade tax and to stop using the bank for money laudering

eorpach

A “country” when it suits them, a diffuse community of limited influence when it does not. What’s the point in it even being in the UN in the first place, if it refuses to tolerate any light being shone on itself?

There are a limited number of nations which fall into the select club of “uncooperative” states when it comes to matters of common interest to the wider International Community; it seems to me that the Holy See is most definitely one of those; so secure in its superiority complex that it refuses to countenance any form of external critique.

How the Holy See ever managed to reach “Sovereign State” status within the United Nations is an absolute wonder (although ostensibly the result of Italian Fascism), considering the Vatican's abject inability to address problems of its own making and and its egregious ability to ignore crimes of its own perpetuating. Nothing is ever the Holy See’s problem – it never presents solutions to the international community; it only ever "considers reports", points fingers at others, or argues back with the finger that dares to accuse it.

I can think of only a limited number of countries that have behaved with such arrogance in recent decades, and fewer still who have come away as geographically or politically unscathed as the Holy See.

Lou.m

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

UN "demands?" What right has to UN to make demands from any sovereign nation?

It has rights over it's member nations.

Dynamo Roller

NATO should drop a daisy-cutter over the Vatican and propel humanity into the next era.

kneemos

Hazys wrote: »

The first true test of the Pope Francis, is he really the man he's portrayed so far?

Having talked the talk it's going to really look bad if it's business
as normal and he turns out to be nothing more than a good PR man.

sawdoubters

did they say the would be buggered if they would

Ghost Buster

Has anyone jumped right in at the end with:

Oh look another catholic bashing thread:mad:
or
Dont tar them all with the same brush:mad:
or
Slow news day for the Smug Atheist:rolleyes:
or
Religion thread >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Im prepared to do it to speed things along.........

tigger123

Has anyone contacted Panti Bliss for comment?

(Delighted to see someone stand up to the RCC).

omega666

Lou.m wrote: »

It has rights over it's member nations.

The Holy See isn’t a UN member. it's only an observer.
It has all the rights of full membership except voting and putting forward candidates.

Basically it can tell the UN to go get stuffed.

Tazz T

The US should go in and look for weapons of ass destruction

keeponhurling

It's not like there's a huge shelter for on-the-run paedos in the Vatican itself.

But crimes have been carried out in various countries, such as Ireland, so the country should track down and prosecute them.
In this respect, Ireland have cleaned themselves up a bit, and I don't think Gardai or government will be turning a blind eye anymore to cases of this.

There does need to be proof however to get convictions, which is a problem for the Gardai when dealing with all crimes

Merkin

I think to atone for all the heinous abuse that was prolific through the decades (and the cover up of same) there now has to be complete transparency. I personally like Pope Francis and believe he is there for the greater good but it's all the well established senior clergy who I'd be doubtful of suddenly changing their ways and showing a willingness to dob in all the abusers who were conveniently moved to different parishes or sent on "retreat" indefinitely. You can't just change an ingrained institutional mindset because NATO sends a stern letter.

EazyD

I'm just content in the knowledge that within my lifetime, the RCC will diminish with time to eventually become a null and void influence in society.

keeponhurling

EazyD wrote: »

I'm just content in the knowledge that within my lifetime, the RCC will diminish with time to eventually become a null and void influence in society.

Hmmm, not naive at all there

gobnaitolunacy

omega666 wrote: »

The Holy See isn’t a UN member. it's only an observer.
It has all the rights of full membership except voting and putting forward candidates.

Basically it can tell the UN to go get stuffed.

The UN is a toothless tiger, it's well used to being told to get stuffed.
I bet they're shivering in their papal state socks right now.

oceanman

EazyD wrote: »

I'm just content in the knowledge that within my lifetime, the RCC will diminish with time to eventually become a null and void influence in society.

you must be planning to live a very long time! its been around nearly 2000 years at this stage...

conorhal

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

The UN is a toothless tiger, it's well used to being told to get stuffed.
I bet they're shivering in their papal state socks right now.

AS usual the UN is a day late and a dollar short. 'We condemn 40yr old crimes!' Well played UN. Now lets hear what you have to say on contemporary issues. Are we likely to hear the condemnation of Mullahs that routinely sanction the marriage of 12yr old girls from the UN? Naaaa, didn't think so.

EazyD

keeponhurling wrote: »

Hmmm, not naive at all there

Correct, it's not naive. Any other insightful comments to make?(minus the sarcastic undertones if possible?)

I Heart Internet

marozz wrote: »

The first response of the Vatican is to say they will examine the report - but also accused its authors of interference. No surprise there I suppose.

The thing is, in a report billed as being on child abuse, they drifted into contraception, abortion and homosexuality. So lost focus slightly.

They've effectively given the Holy See wiggle room to claim the report is just another jab from liberals who want to interfere with it's teachings (on abortion, contraception, etc).

The UN should've kept a narrow focus - the Holy See has questions to answer no doubt.

keeponhurling

EazyD wrote: »

Correct, it's not naive. Any other insightful comments to make?(minus the sarcastic undertones if possible?)

So the RCC will die out in Ireland, despite something like 80% of the population being cathlolic, and have been for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Similarly in the likes of Poland, Spain, S.american, Asia etc.

All during your lifetime

Which other religions do you see becoming null and void in the short to medium term?

gobnaitolunacy

keeponhurling wrote: »

So the RCC will die out in Ireland, despite something like 80% of the population being cathlolic, and have been for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Similarly in the likes of Poland, Spain, S.american, Asia etc.

All during your lifetime

How many of that 80% are actively practicing Catholics or 'meh' Catholics going with the flow?

I very much doubt it will be extinct in my lifetime, certainly it will be of less relevance and influence, but dying out entirely?....I don't think so.

Skylinehead

I Heart Internet wrote: »

The thing is, in a report billed as being on child abuse, they drifted into contraception, abortion and homosexuality. So lost focus slightly.

In relation to children.

kneemos

keeponhurling wrote: »

So the RCC will die out in Ireland, despite something like 80% of the population being cathlolic, and have been for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Similarly in the likes of Poland, Spain, S.american, Asia etc.

All during your lifetime

Which other religions do you see becoming null and void in the short to medium term?

Lose it's influence he said.

returnNull

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

but dying out entirely?....I don't think so.

It will probably be around in some shape and form..there will always be zombie worshippers.How anyone can belong to a church that actively facilitated abuse and the many attempts at cover ups is beyond me.

I'll just be happy once there is complete seperation of state and church.

The way the UN was set up has led it to being a toothless tiger,what with the americans vetoing anything to do with israel and more recently russia/china vetoing any action on syria

EazyD

keeponhurling wrote: »

So the RCC will die out in Ireland, despite something like 80% of the population being cathlolic, and have been for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Similarly in the likes of Poland, Spain, S.american, Asia etc.

All during your lifetime

Which other religions do you see becoming null and void in the short to medium term?

Firstly I never said "die out", I said lose it's influence, which in real terms is happening at quite a pace and will continue to do so.

Secondly why did you narrow the time-frame from short-medium, I stated my lifetime which(fingers crossed) will be the next 5/6/7 decades, that's quite a stretch of time I think we can agree.

And last but not least, I'm not posting to "bash the believers". The concept of faith has been with humans for longer than history could record, however the influence faith has both today and in the future will invariably be less than it previously was.

EazyD

oceanman wrote: »

you must be planning to live a very long time! its been around nearly 2000 years at this stage...

Read last comment on page 3

oceanman

EazyD wrote: »

Read last comment on page 3

I did...and I still think it will be around and have influence long after your 5,6,or even 7 decades are over.....