Just got Knee MRI results back and it's ... not good

brianon

So I just got my MRI results back. No health insurance so I paid €400 for them (€200 for each knee). Anyway, I've no idea what I should do next.

GP said that he is going to give me an orthopaedic referral but that could take 6 months going public to see someone.

He told me if I pay for this myself then I am tied into going private if surgery (which seems unavoidable) is required. Both knees are invloved so the cost could be serious.

Background is that around Sep/October last year I started getting soreness in my left knee during/after astro soccer. You know the usual twice a week with your buddies kind of soccer. Up to that I had been squatting (and other lifts) and running along with the astro each week without issue. This wasn't an impact injury. Right kneee then started acting up and sometimes would be sore after/during soccer. I gave up the other exercises until all was left was astro soccer. After a few weeks off after christmas I gave the astro one more go but it was now worse than before even with the layoff.

Went to physio and straight to GP. Paid for MRI and got results back yesterday. GP is referring me and essentially thats that.

Got a copy of the MRI results and the findings include (left knee)

"Patellofemoral degenerative osteoarthritis with severe (Grade 4) chondromalacia"

. Yikes.

Lots of other bad stuff. Lots.

Anyway. I'm now in a situation where I haven't a clue what I need to do. It will be 6 months (or more ?) before I see the Orthopaedic Surgeon(?) who will be looking at 6 month old MRI scans. From there I could be waiting <how long is a piece of string?> for surgery. I'll deal with the wait for surgery when that happens. For now I'm left with an MRI result that seems bloody scary to me and I'm supposed to twiddle my thumbs for 6 months ?!

Ugh. Could I go see an Orthopaedic Surgeon (or whoever it is needs seeing) and pay for it myself to get an opinion (and not referred for surgery) on what I can do for now and still stay on the public list ?

Feel like I've been chucked overboard here without a lifejacket

The thoughts of not playing soccer/tag again for a long time were bad enough. But it seems allot worse now not knowing anything. Can I swim ? Can I cycle ? Need to see someone who knows their stuff...but who ?

Ryder

brianon wrote: »

So I just got my MRI results back. No health insurance so I paid €400 for them (€200 for each knee). Anyway, I've no idea what I should do next.

GP said that he is going to give me an orthopaedic referral but that could take 6 months going public to see someone.

He told me if I pay for this myself then I am tied into going private if surgery (which seems unavoidable) is required. Both knees are invloved so the cost could be serious.

Background is that around Sep/October last year I started getting soreness in my left knee during/after astro soccer. You know the usual twice a week with your buddies kind of soccer. Up to that I had been squatting (and other lifts) and running along with the astro each week without issue. This wasn't an impact injury. Right kneee then started acting up and sometimes would be sore after/during soccer. I gave up the other exercises until all was left was astro soccer. After a few weeks off after christmas I gave the astro one more go but it was now worse than before even with the layoff.

Went to physio and straight to GP. Paid for MRI and got results back yesterday. GP is referring me and essentially thats that.

Got a copy of the MRI results and the findings include (left knee) . Yikes.

Lots of other bad stuff. Lots.

Anyway. I'm now in a situation where I haven't a clue what I need to do. It will be 6 months (or more ?) before I see the Orthopaedic Surgeon(?) who will be looking at 6 month old MRI scans. From there I could be waiting <how long is a piece of string?> for surgery. I'll deal with the wait for surgery when that happens. For now I'm left with an MRI result that seems bloody scary to me and I'm supposed to twiddle my thumbs for 6 months ?!

Ugh. Could I go see an Orthopaedic Surgeon (or whoever it is needs seeing) and pay for it myself to get an opinion (and not referred for surgery) on what I can do for now and still stay on the public list ?

Feel like I've been chucked overboard here without a lifejacket

The thoughts of not playing soccer/tag again for a long time were bad enough. But it seems allot worse now not knowing anything. Can I swim ? Can I cycle ? Need to see someone who knows their stuff...but who ?

****not medical advice******

you could see a private ortho surgeon for an opinion. Nothing stopping you doing that while on a public waiting list (cancel the public appt if no longer needing it)
It you need an operation, and want it on the public list, then you will have to go on the end of the public list. As far as I know, and I have worked here, there is nothing stopping the private guy listing you for a public operation (provided he works both publically and privately)

oscar_mike

Know the feeling, damaged my meniscus two years ago and had to give the running up! swimming is an excellent alternative as it is non impact so it shouldn't add to the problem. Also my doctor recommend swimming for people with knee damage as it keeps the knee adequately lubricated and mobile, but maybe check with a physio and have an exercise plan drawn up to suit your problem.

brianon

Thanks. Yeah, I understand, not looking for medical advice here at all. Looking for who I should go to for medical advice

I am wondering if I pay to go see an orthopaedic surgeon privately what exactly he can tell me? I guess he could tell me if I require surgery but in all likelihood that's a given (also medial cartilage tears in both knees and lateral cartilage wear and tear and there is more!?) and could take anywhere from 1 to 2 years.

What I think I need is for someone to be able to tell me what I need to do (what I can do) in terms of exercise/prevention (that ship may have sailed but at least prevention of further damage). Is that the right person to talk to about this ? I would have thought so but I don't know for sure. He can't refer me as it would have to be the orthopaedic surgeon from the public referral who refers me for surgery.

@oscar_mike: I had seen a physio before the MRI and she was interested in hearing the results but her reaction after I told her the results yesterday was basically, nothing she could do except for muscle pain relief it it got bad again. She said swimming and cycling if no pain but hen she's not seen the full scan results which I only got today.

I want to know what I should or shouldn't be doing now and not find out in 6 months I should have been doing X and not Y.

**Maybe I should go back to the physio with the full results. I dunno

Pat Mustard

brianon wrote: »

GP said that he is going to give me an orthopaedic referral but that could take 6 months going public to see someone.

He told me if I pay for this myself then I am tied into going private if surgery (which seems unavoidable) is required. Both knees are invloved so the cost could be serious.

I'm not 100% certain if your GP has attempted to guide you on the best course of action. Maybe he has, I don't know.

What I think is that you need to investigate the possibilities involved in getting the best medical treatment that is available to you, in early course.

I had a nagging injury from an accident, previously. There was no problem with insurance or anything like that, but my GP sat and thought for a minute and came up with the best strategy for me to get seen by a particular Orthopaedic Surgeon asap. He was very helpful.

It may be worth talking to another doctor; someone who can advise you on the best strategy to get the best available treatment.

brianon

Thanks. Yeah my GP knows I am going public so is referring me to an ortho doctor in Limerick. He said it could be 6 months before I see him though.

I would like to go see an ortho surgeon sooner than that but if I go privately to an ortho then I cannot go public for surgery. I would be tied into the private route. I am wondering if I could go privately to an ortho doctor to get advise as to what to do while waiting for the public ortho doctor. Thereby not disqualifying myself from public surgery.

holdfast

Lad, i have a bad knee, acl over 22 years ago and dogs abuse since then lead me to today. woren, torn and missing cartilage, long term knee replacement 20 years time. I am working to make that 30 years

clean up diet to reduce inflammation, lose weight if required, work on mobility on hips an ankles, foam roll, fish oil, single leg training to strength, improve pro-perception and control knees, Glucosamine, good warm up, knee sleeves, ice on the end of training.

I found after the knee stelled down and i done the list above the knee is not cranky for now. but it a long road, given up running except for once a year for my job, theere are plenty of other ways to train. best of luck

enfant terrible

holdfast wrote: »

Lad, i have a bad knee, acl over 22 years ago and dogs abuse since then lead me to today. woren, torn and missing cartilage, long term knee replacement 20 years time. I am working to make that 30 years

clean up diet to reduce inflammation, lose weight if required, work on mobility on hips an ankles, foam roll, fish oil, single leg training to strength, improve pro-perception and control knees, Glucosamine, good warm up, knee sleeves, ice on the end of training.

I found after the knee stelled down and i done the list above the knee is not cranky for now. but it a long road, given up running except for once a year for my job, theere are plenty of other ways to train. best of luck

Would weight training like squatting strengthen the knee or potentially damage it?

Would it be different for everyone?

oscar_mike

In that case i would lay off high impact sports or activities that puts huge pressure on the knee. i.e. running long distances, squats, soccer, jumping etc, at least until you see the consultant.

Obviously i cant tell you what you need to do but definitely consider swimming. I cant be sure about cycling off the top of my head considering the nature of your injury. Also pick up an elastic knee brace if you find your knee aches some days. There a tenner in most chemists i think.

Would also have to agree with holdfast on the diet thing it turns out to be a problem

holdfast

squats are ok, once done right, the quads and hamstring balance each other out at below parallel. it the poor hips and ankles mobility that put the knee in bad positions. check out roberston training website, he has a ton of stuff on knees. also mwod with kelly starrett is a go to site for info. sorry for the spelling on the last post. my bad.

Ryder

brianon wrote: »

Thanks. Yeah my GP knows I am going public so is referring me to an ortho doctor in Limerick. He said it could be 6 months before I see him though.

I would like to go see an ortho surgeon sooner than that but if I go privately to an ortho then I cannot go public for surgery. I would be tied into the private route. I am wondering if I could go privately to an ortho doctor to get advise as to what to do while waiting for the public ortho doctor. Thereby not disqualifying myself from public surgery.

as per my earlier post, why do you think they are mutually exclusive? why cant you see a public ortho who has private clinics?

Brian?

Why don't you get health insurance?

Also, as to what you can and can't do, leave that to your doctor.

Oryx

Brian? wrote: »

Why don't you get health insurance?

Also, as to what you can and can't do, leave that to your doctor.

As a preexisting condition, this will be excluded from health cover for years.

AngryHippie

As said above,

Avoid impact exercise, Swim if possible, but not under any circumstances breastroke. Freestyle and backstroke should be fine, but no backstroke. Consider aqua-jogging in the slightly longer term, use supports and head packs etc. as necessary. Its going to mean some major changes for you though.

Not really sure about cycling, as it does put quite a bit of pressure and wear/tear on the knee joint, (not to mention the hips & lower back) talk to your physio and get a plan.

I would definitely get health insurance sorted out, even if it excludes the problem for 5 years, it may cover some knock on costs with associated conditions.

I gambled on not having health insurance from 23 to 30, but once i hit 30, I sorted that out. It's definitely worth it for peace of mind.

Best of luck with it.

sawdoubters

what age are you


http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00590


exercise

http://www.permanente.net/homepage/kaiser/pdf/6946.pdf

brianon

Ryder wrote: »

as per my earlier post, why do you think they are mutually exclusive? why cant you see a public ortho who has private clinics?

Not sure I follow you. Sorry. I was told by my GP that if I pay for my ortho then I must pay for surgery.

Thanks guys for the posts.

As for squats. I can't currently squat properly. I've squatted for years. Since 2006. Up until today I couldn't get even to parallel without the pain/pressure being too much. That was just an air squat, no weight. Now, having not played astro or run in nearly fours weeks I can now squat (just did a few) to a good enough level (below parallel) but with no weight. It's a start so maybe a knee brace (as suggested) might help,there and just taking it very slow with the weights.

I am 38 years of age. My diet has been super clean the last while. Since 2006 it has been very down and up. Good weight to overweight to way overweight to good weight. Never had kneee trouble before this and was down to my ideal weight when this start happening back in October.

It's very hard right now to stay motivated. Swimming and possibly cycling (my range of motion does seem to have improved in both knees) are maybe my best options but might try squatting but being super cautious. Thing is, I am not a huge fan of swimming and indeed not a great swimmer and tbh I hate cycling. BUT when you take every other option away ... What choice have i. Astro for now is a no no I guess

**knees a bit sore now after those few air squats

Oryx

I am not a huge fan of swimming and indeed not a great swimmer and tbh I hate cycling.

Right now.

If it is the case that your knees wont allow you to do other stuff, do give things like swimming a go. It does take time and effort but you will learn to love it, I can testify to that. But with the cycling, you will need to get a medical all clear. Poor cycling (poor bike position and skills) can be bad for your knees.

brianon

Oryx wrote: »

Right now.

If it is the case that your knees wont allow you to do other stuff, do give things like swimming a go. It does take time and effort but you will learn to love it, I can testify to that. But with the cycling, you will need to get a medical all clear. Poor cycling (poor bike position and skills) can be bad for your knees.

I won't rule that out

As for cycling. My own bike got nicked a couple years back and I never replaced it. My simple plan for now would be to get a loan of a bike and try it out. No pain and I'd look to get my own bike.

maggiepip

But I dont understand why you cant independently see a private consultant for his opinion on your mri results. You can keep the public consultant appointment separate and wait the six months, but youre entitled to pay to see a private consultant for an opinion surely?

brianon

maggiepip wrote: »

But I dont understand why you cant independently see a private consultant for his opinion on your mri results. You can keep the public consultant appointment separate and wait the six months, but youre entitled to pay to see a private consultant for an opinion surely?

Maybe. Don't you have to have a gp referral to see a private or public consultant ? ANy privates I looked up said no appointment without referral.

maggiepip

Yeah in general you do, I forgot that, but I think your GP has got it wrong in saying if you go to see a private fella, then thats the end of it and you can never see a public consultant again for your knee, and you have to pay for everything from there onwards - that just doesnt ring right. Id ask my GP again.

Brian?

Oryx wrote: »

As a preexisting condition, this will be excluded from health cover for years.

Are you sure about that? I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary, so I thought it wasn't the case.

Oryx

Brian? wrote: »

Are you sure about that? I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary, so I thought it wasn't the case.

It has been the case with me. When I signed up, all preexisting conditions were excluded for 5 years, and that varied according to client age. Now, Ive been a member for a long time, so it is moot, but any time I bothered to read the t&c booklet at renewal it seemed to still be the case. When my son was born I forgot to add him for 6 months, and that meant any preexisting conditions of his (all 6 months worth lol) were excluded from cover.

This is the case in Ireland, at any rate.

cc87

brianon wrote: »

Maybe. Don't you have to have a gp referral to see a private or public consultant ? ANy privates I looked up said no appointment without referral.

It doesnt have to be a doctors referral. This is to stop people making appointments with them about silly stuff or stuff that they don't consult about. A physio/physical therapist/anyone who knows their stuff and the right people can refer you

parasite

What kind of soreness did you have to get such a dramatic sounding MRI diagnosis ? Was it sharp, shooting pain, or just 'hot' knees ... I'm getting concerned about my own knees now or maybe it's just cyberchondria

brianon

Hard to describe really. Initially it was just painful knees. Felt like a pain from the inside out. Pressure. Then swelling quite often after soccer but not always. Sharp shooting pain was normally only when playing soccer.