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Clearing site - New build Regulations

  • 05-02-2014 1:56pm
    #1
    barhodgins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭


    Hi,

    I applied for planning permission middle of last month and will have to build under the new building control regulations...

    I had hoped that my brother who has worked for a builder doing all ground works inc foundations etc would be able to dig out and pour foundations etc for me... For him to qualify to do this work under the new controls what does he need, does anybody know????


    Thanks...


Comments

  • #2
    archtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭archtech


    barhodgins wrote: »
    Hi,

    I applied for planning permission middle of last month and will have to build under the new building control regulations...

    I had hoped that my brother who has worked for a builder doing all ground works inc foundations etc would be able to dig out and pour foundations etc for me... For him to qualify to do this work under the new controls what does he need, does anybody know????


    Thanks...

    Who is proposed to do the works from there on? What is the view of your Assigned Certifier on the matter. At the end of the day they will have to be happy to sign the Certificate at the end of the day, otherwise your in trouble.


  • #3
    barhodgins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭barhodgins


    I haven't decided yet as I was just going to clear site and dig foundations initially.... as I have the cash to do this part of the build without drawing down on mortgage etc...


  • #4
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,169 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    barhodgins wrote: »
    I haven't decided yet as I was just going to clear site and dig foundations initially.... as I have the cash to do this part of the build without drawing down on mortgage etc...

    foundations are the most important aspect of your house........ they fail, your house is worthless.

    Dont dig or pour these without your assigned certifer being in place and having their approval.


  • #5
    barhodgins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭barhodgins


    I understand what your saying.. I haven't got the planning permission yet (next 4 week hopefully) but I was wondering if it will be possible for him to do the work when I do as I have full confidence in the work been carried to the highest standard as he has been doing it for the past 12 yrs...

    What I am asking is what does my brother need to produce to the Assigned Certifier so as to complete the works?? does anybody know...

    sydthebeat wrote: »
    foundations are the most important aspect of your house........ they fail, your house is worthless.

    Dont dig or pour these without your assigned certifer being in place and having their approval.


  • #6
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    barhodgins wrote: »
    I understand what your saying.. I haven't got the planning permission yet (next 4 week hopefully) but I was wondering if it will be possible for him to do the work when I do as I have full confidence in the work been carried to the highest standard as he has been doing it for the past 12 yrs...

    What I am asking is what does my brother need to produce to the Assigned Certifier so as to complete the works?? does anybody know...

    Your assigned certified needs to be satisfied that the ground works are installed by a competent contractor that is registered under the new regs and builds to specifications. The problem is if I were the assigned certifier, I'd be looking for one company to take on the main building contract only. With your brother a subbie of that contractor. Giving the certifier one point of contact that would be obliged to ensure all site work are built to the drawings / building regs.


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  • #7
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,169 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    barhodgins wrote: »
    I understand what your saying.. I haven't got the planning permission yet (next 4 week hopefully) but I was wondering if it will be possible for him to do the work when I do as I have full confidence in the work been carried to the highest standard as he has been doing it for the past 12 yrs...

    What I am asking is what does my brother need to produce to the Assigned Certifier so as to complete the works?? does anybody know...

    There are three main "persons" the client needs to be wary of

    1. the assigned certifier
    Architect, Engineer, or Building Surveyor

    2. Building Company Director
    Needs to be CIF registered and a director of a building company (contractor).

    3. Competent person
    This person can be the building contractor or be a person provided by the building contractor to be on site to 'oversee' works on their behalf.


    The assigned certifier signs certs based on the Building contractors cert.
    The building contractor signs a cert stating:
    I confirm that I am the Builder assigned by the owner to construct, supervise and certify the building or works.
    I certify, having exercised reasonable skill, care and diligence, that the building or works as completed has been constructed in accordance with the plans, calculations, specifications, ancillary certificates and particulars as certified under the Form of Certificate of Compliance (Design) and listed in the schedule to the Commencement/7DayNotice relevant to the above building or works, together with such further plans, calculations, specifications, ancillary certificates and particulars, if any, as have been subsequently issued to me and certified and submitted to the Building Control Authority, and such other documents relevant to compliance with the requirements of the Second Schedule to the Building Regulations as shall be retained by me as outlined in the Code of Practice for Inspecting and Certifying Buildings and Works.


    so if your brother is qualifed and registered to sign such a cert, fine, fire away under approval of the certifier.
    If hes not, then you need to wait until you employ a suitable person to act as this building contractor who can sign this certificate.


  • #8
    Droghead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭Droghead


    So unless you are registered under the new control regulations you cannot complete any job on a building site??

    Will there be a list available from the county council or whoever of companies/builders/site workers who have registered with them or how does one find out??? any know...



    QUOTE=BryanF;88849104]Your assigned certified needs to be satisfied that the ground works are installed by a competent contractor that is registered under the new regs and builds to specifications. The problem is if I were the assigned certifier, I'd be looking for one company to take on the main building contract only. With your brother a subbie of that contractor. Giving the certifier one point of contact that would be obliged to ensure all site work are built to the drawings / building regs.[/QUOTE]


  • #9
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    barhodgins wrote: »
    I haven't decided yet as I was just going to clear site and dig foundations initially.... as I have the cash to do this part of the build without drawing down on mortgage etc...

    If you ask around about this, you might find, you'd be best to conserve your own savings for as long as possible, as it's when you come towards the end of the build that money can be tight and final stage payments difficult to get in a timely manor


  • #10
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,169 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Droghead wrote: »
    So unless you are registered under the new control regulations you cannot complete any job on a building site??

    not correct, you need to work under supervision from a main contractor who will take responsibility for your work......


  • #11
    barhodgins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭barhodgins


    So sydthebeart would i be correct in saying that as long as the main contractor will take responsibility for my brothers work on site then he is able to carry out the clearing of site and pouring of foundations????
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    not correct, you need to work under supervision from a main contractor who will take responsibility for your work......


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  • #12
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,169 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    barhodgins wrote: »
    So sydthebeart would i be correct in saying that as long as

    1. the main contractor will take responsibility for my brothers work on site then

    2. he is able to carry out the clearing of site and pouring of foundations????

    1. yes
    2. MUST be inspected and approved by your assigned certifier.


  • #13
    Droghead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭Droghead


    This is interesting....

    Can your assigned certifier be a registered Surveyor or Engineer or do they have to be a builder??

    So if you were to self build under new building control regulations as long as the assigned certifier is happy with who you have nominated to do certain work on site and will inspect and approve they can do the work???
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    1. yes
    2. MUST be inspected and approved by your assigned certifier.


  • #14
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,169 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Droghead wrote: »
    This is interesting....

    Can your assigned certifier be a registered Surveyor or Engineer or do they have to be a builder??

    So if you were to self build under new building control regulations as long as the assigned certifier is happy with who you have nominated to do certain work on site and will inspect and approve they can do the work???

    see #7 above

    the assigned certifier is putting their balls on the block so they will look to spread responsibility as far as possible.
    They should insist on a main contractor being appointed or otherwise refuse to certify (i would anyway)
    Tom Parlon recently said that thats how the CIF envisage the new regs working.

    the main contractor certifies that s/he oversaw the work of the 'competent' persons working on site (subcontractors)

    These regulations place a huge professional onus on building contractors.
    If no main contractor is appointed, it would be an incredibly stupid 'assigned certifier' to sign certs without a main contractor.


  • #15
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    barhodgins wrote: »
    I haven't decided yet as I was just going to clear site and dig foundations initially.... as I have the cash to do this part of the build without drawing down on mortgage etc...

    Who will certify the foundations?


  • #16
    mandy gall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 115 ✭✭mandy gall


    As of Saturday, 1st March Self Build/ direct labour is OVER. Only Ireland could introduce an outrageous law such as this. Would welcome any opinions on this tradegy.


  • #17
    4Sticks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    Make your feelings felt during the upcoming local elections this May


  • #18
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    mandy gall wrote: »
    As of Saturday, 1st March Self Build/ direct labour is OVER. Only Ireland could introduce an outrageous law such as this. Would welcome any opinions on this tradegy.

    Calling the law outrageous and tragedy is way over the top. The law is aimed at improving standards in construction and despite the current uncertainty it will most likely do this. The only problem will be if it is not implemented as planned which is possible given the unclear guidance documents on council websites currently.


  • #19
    mandy gall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 115 ✭✭mandy gall


    It may improve standards in construction at a severe cost to the self builder. Self build is enshrined in the UK. 6 out of 10 builds in Belgium are self builds. Only good old Ireland bans the self builder. Im afraid it is outrageous and it is a tragedy. Self builders do so out of financial necessity and they did not cause the construction problems of the boom years.


  • #20
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    mandy gall wrote: »
    It may improve standards in construction at a severe cost to the self builder. Self build is enshrined in the UK. 6 out of 10 builds in Belgium are self builds. Only good old Ireland bans the self builder. Im afraid it is outrageous and it is a tragedy. Self builders do so out of financial necessity and they did not cause the construction problems of the boom years.
    what aspect of the legislation do you think is outrageous and what part is tragedy?


  • #21
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    mandy gall wrote: »
    It may improve standards in construction at a severe cost to the self builder. Self build is enshrined in the UK. 6 out of 10 builds in Belgium are self builds. Only good old Ireland bans the self builder. Im afraid it is outrageous and it is a tragedy. Self builders do so out of financial necessity and they did not cause the construction problems of the boom years.

    thanks for the rant, you'll note there is a stickied thread where this has been discussed to death. SO, As other posters have suggested tell someone who can change it the BCA 2014: perhaps your local council rep or TD would be a start


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  • #22
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    what aspect of the legislation do you think is outrageous and what part is tragedy?

    no need to take this any further off topic


  • #23
    mandy gall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 115 ✭✭mandy gall


    Ok bryanf will have a word in politicians ears! Just to say outrageous in the sense that a self builder MUST employ a contractor - no more self builder. Tragedy in the sense of mass unemployment of sub contractors who are not under a contractors wing. The regs are fine for builders of homes for profit. Self builders usually do so to provide a home for their family. Anyone who thinks these regs are fine have probably not fully studied them.


  • #24
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    BryanF wrote: »
    no need to take this any further off topic

    Fair enough Bryan, my intention was to highlight the lack of substance on display rather than another building control discussion.


  • #25
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    mandy gall wrote: »
    Ok bryanf will have a word in politicians ears! Just to say outrageous in the sense .... Tragedy in the sense of mass unemployment of sub contractors who are not under a contractors wing. The regs are fine for builders of homes for profit. Self builders usually do so to provide a home for their family. Anyone who thinks these regs are fine have probably not fully studied them.

    please! stop with dramatic's! No more of this, don't even respond, thanks. (No harm to read the forum charter)


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