Architects

Droghead

Hi,

I am in the process of meeting with architects to draw up plans for a new build approx. 200m2...

I have met a few Architects and they are only giving me a price to draw up plans and submit plans to the county council.. They wont give pricing to follow through the whole process "as they need to see how things progress with the amendments to the building control regulations"...

The price for drawing up and submitting my plans are ranging from €3,000 - €7,500 and I am just wondering can anyone advise which price is more realistic to have plans drawn up?? :cool:

Gumbo

Droghead wrote: »

Hi,

I am in the process of meeting with architects to draw up plans for a new build approx. 200m2...

I have met a few Architects and they are only giving me a price to draw up plans and submit plans to the county council.. They wont give pricing to follow through the whole process "as they need to see how things progress with the amendments to the building control regulations"...

The price for drawing up and submitting my plans are ranging from €3,000 - €7,500 and I am just wondering can anyone advise which price is more realistic to have plans drawn up?? :cool:

Depends on the site, level of input and how you like the architects work.
No point paying 3k for an architect if he designs you a basic building, but for 7k would of got you exactly what you want, bespoke architecturally pleasing building. Relative cost in the whole scheme of things has to be considered.

Get each architect to put in writing the scope of their services and then compare all together.

fealeranger

Taking into account your location you will be looking at around €5000-€7000 for design, Percolation, Site Survey, road report, Planning permission and detailed working drawings to get quotes and site visits. Anything over this price and I would try another company/person.

DOCARCH

fealeranger wrote: »

...you will be looking at around €5000-€7000...

Not after March 1st....I would suggest.

fealeranger

DOCARCH wrote: »

Not after March 1st....I would suggest.

What would you suggest after March 1st............:)!

DOCARCH

fealeranger wrote: »

What would you suggest after March 1st............:)!

I don't know...but I very much doubt E5K will get you a full and complete service - start to finish - with all necessary certification.

fealeranger

DOCARCH wrote: »

I don't know...but I very much doubt E5K will get you a full and complete service - start to finish - with all necessary certification.

I don't know about that. The cost of the build will go up alright due to the minimum A3 BER. The house design is still the same with a little extra detail in the building drawings. Everybody will have to do so the competition for business is still there. Firstly banks will have to start releasing more money because what they are approving people for at the moment is not enough to build an A3 rated house. I can't see too many builds going ahead until there is money floating about again.

Droghead

Hi...

Dorarch I am only talking about getting the plans drawn up and planning application submitted not the complete service start to finish... Unfortunately none of the architects I met will price for that until they see what happening with the new building control regulations...

So for the job I am getting done which is plans drawn up and planning application submitted what would u reckon...

Fearleranger I hope your right about the competition as I was hoping to do self build as know loads and sort of work in that sector but not sure how it will work now...

Droghead

Fearleranger I only looking at getting the design, Percolation, Site Survey, road report, Planning permission done 1st.. and the prices are between €3,000 - €7,000 for this part... I live in an area of high scenic beauty with strict guidelines so I will be very restricted on the design on the house...

The detailed working drawings to get quotes and site visits will be extra...

kkelliher

Droghead wrote: »

The detailed working drawings to get quotes and site visits will be extra...

or get a BOQ done in order to get quotes on a like with like basis and the cost analysis can then fall back into the finished drawings so that your working drawings will suit your budget and you wont waste time going back redrafting drawings over and over to suit your budget.

Droghead

kkelliher wrote: »

or get a BOQ done in order to get quotes on a like with like basis and the cost analysis can then fall back into the finished drawings so that your working drawings will suit your budget and you wont waste time going back redrafting drawings over and over to suit your budget.

Sorry not really sure what a BOQ is??

Gumbo

Droghead wrote: »

Sorry not really sure what a BOQ is??

Bill of Quantities.
You really need a QS, he/she will save you his/her fee plus more over the course of the build.

Droghead

kceire wrote: »

Bill of Quantities.
You really need a QS, he/she will save you his/her fee plus more over the course of the build.

You think I should get a quantity surveyor to advice me in relation to the Architect fees for drawing up and submitting plans???

I didn't think I would be needing QS till I get my planning permission...

Bubbling

I think if you pay €7,000 up to planning permission for an architect, that is very good value - especially if it includes the Site Suitability Assessment (or percolation test as you call it). Many architects are not qualified to do this any more, with the new environmental regulations, so you may need an engineer to do this.

If you are building a 200sq.m. house, I would suggest a budget estimate rate of approx €1,500 / sq.m. to build it (this could be much higher or lower) giving a preliminary budget construction cost of €300,000.

An architect can calculate their fee based on the percentage of the construction costs. For arguments sake, if you take €6000 fee up to planning permission - that is only 2% of the construction cost. Not much, eh!! That is unbelievable value - if you can get an RIAI architect for that money!

Are you sure they are an architect with PI insurance? Not just some one doing architectural design drawings?

No point in making small saving to the detriment of the whole project and the big investment that you are are making.

BryanF

Bubbling wrote: »

No point in making small saving to the detriment of the whole project and the big investment that you are are making.

OP this sums up your query very nicely, don't you think?

archtech

Droghead wrote: »

I live in an area of high scenic beauty with strict guidelines so I will be very restricted on the design on the house...

I wouldn't say restricted, just you need a good design architect who will deliver your brief to fit the site.

Droghead

BryanF wrote: »

OP this sums up your query very nicely, don't you think?

It does indeed...


Thanks...

Droghead

archtech wrote: »

I wouldn't say restricted, just you need a good design architect who will deliver your brief to fit the site.

That is exactly what I am trying to do... I have seen quite a few, had a look through there portfolio's and visited houses that they built.. and 2 of them I was very happy with but i was shocked by difference in prices especially since they all qualified architects apparently all offering the same thing (although like every profession u get good & bad )

I may do a lot more thinking and maybe go back to both of them and ask more questions in relation to exactly what they both offering...

kkelliher

Droghead wrote: »

You think I should get a quantity surveyor to advice me in relation to the Architect fees for drawing up and submitting plans???

I didn't think I would be needing QS till I get my planning permission...

People seem to apprach this issue with a "lets get the drawings and then see what it costs?" attitude however why not do it the more economical way. If you have planning drawings you have the shape, layout and general size of the proposed house. Have this costed in a bill of quantities and include for all finishes, insulation levels, glazing etc etc and then once you have figured out a cost you are happy with it is very easy to hand the bill to the Architect as have it feed back into the drawings as a specification. There will be additional work for the architect in terms of details and they may also suggest or require changes but in the main you should be in the corret ballpark cost wise. Going at it the other way is a bit like throwing a dart and hopeing it lands in the sphere of your budget.

4Sticks

kkelliher wrote: »

If you have planning drawings .

Agree with one caveat - if you have pre - planning drawings i.e. get QS costings done first and then lodge for PP.

Droghead

4Sticks wrote: »

Agree with one caveat - if you have pre - planning drawings i.e. get QS costings done first and then lodge for PP.

I don't have any pre-planning drawings done... I am still trying to pick the architect...

Gumbo

Droghead wrote: »

You think I should get a quantity surveyor to advice me in relation to the Architect fees for drawing up and submitting plans???

I didn't think I would be needing QS till I get my planning permission...

Well, yes and no, no pojt in an architect designing a 300k home if you only have 195k and so on.

Once the Architect gets the brief and designs to your budget then yes, you can engage a QS afterwards but i suppose it helps to have them both on board at the same time.

Droghead wrote: »

That is exactly what I am trying to do... I have seen quite a few, had a look through there portfolio's and visited houses that they built.. and 2 of them I was very happy with but i was shocked by difference in prices especially since they all qualified architects apparently all offering the same thing (although like every profession u get good & bad )

I may do a lot more thinking and maybe go back to both of them and ask more questions in relation to exactly what they both offering...

Tough decisions ahead, but exciting too, so try enjoy it

4Sticks

Ideal sequence is
Arch + client confirm written brief
Arch + client agree drawn breif i.e. plans and elevations . Can be be in sketch form but to scale , measurable.
Arch + client agree outline spec
Client obtains BER assement to indicate how to comply with Part L - spec is updated to suit
QS costs now.
If budget is bust - go back to start. This may mean clients reduces expectations
Repeat until budget is met and then lodge for PP.

Superdaddy

I approached an Archetect at the beginning of my process. He quoted me 16,000 start to finish. I dropped him. Found a neighbour studying to be an Archetect technician, in his final year, he was an experienced builder too. Got planning application and plans sorted for €600. Paid another €450 to another lad for site suitability report including digger work. Working drawings have cost me a further €300. I got my engineer through friends, he has quoted me 1800 to see me to finish. He did a BOQ for me before I could ask for it.
Shop around and shop local. Talk to people around you. Do all your own research on the build. Know what you want from people. Haggle. Don't entertain cowboys. If it sounds dodgy it probably is.

DOCARCH

Superdaddy wrote: »

Found a neighbour studying to be an Archetect technician, in his final year, he was an experienced builder too. Got planning application and plans sorted for €600. Paid another €450 to another lad for site suitability report including digger work. Working drawings have cost me a further €300. I got my engineer through friends, he has quoted me 1800 to see me to finish. He did a BOQ for me before I could ask for it.
Shop around and shop local. Talk to people around you. Do all your own research on the build. Know what you want from people. Haggle. Don't entertain cowboys. If it sounds dodgy it probably is.

Working drawings for E300!

The days of this sort of service/costs are now pretty much over, well at midnight tonight, courtesy of Phil Hogan.

fealeranger

DOCARCH wrote: »

Working drawings for E300!

The days of this sort of service/costs are now pretty much over, well at midnight tonight, courtesy of Phil Hogan.

There will not be too many builds going on as the money offered by banks as mortgages will not sustain the level of detailed required to reach A3 standard BER.

galwaytt

4Sticks wrote: »

Ideal sequence is
Arch + client confirm written brief
Arch + client agree drawn breif i.e. plans and elevations . Can be be in sketch form but to scale , measurable.
Arch + client agree outline spec
Client obtains BER assement to indicate how to comply with Part L - spec is updated to suit
QS costs now.
If budget is bust - go back to start. This may mean clients reduces expectations
Repeat until budget is met and then lodge for PP.

That's good, but I think budget should be informed earlier. Otherwise a lot of time spent more on hope than expectation. A good arch will have a good idea how to work within the budget constraints as part of the working design process.
Makes life easier and more accurate for the other steps too.

GirlsWonder

galwaytt wrote: »

That's good, but I think budget should be informed earlier. Otherwise a lot of time spent more on hope than expectation. A good arch will have a good idea how to work within the budget constraints as part of the working design process.
Makes life easier and more accurate for the other steps too.

Architects are only good to draw up a set of plans-if that. However in relation to budgets I have yet to see one that does not go over budget. I've worked with a few different architects on my houses, now I'm of the opinion that a good builder (must be good) will have a better idea of actual costs and design. I think architects are more of a nuance and big egos. A change to 'their plans' means 'it's wrong' or that won't work. Ask a builder the same q and they'll say if they can build it or not. I'm not associated with any builders btw. I've moved and renovated a few houses and worked with a lot of people. In relation to getting a QS if you get 3 prices for everything you can't go too far wrong. Always ask for what's included in writing from plasters etc the price varies on what's included obviously. Always ask to see work they have completed before also.

Good luck. The bigger the price of the architect does not relate to the better set of drawings. Ask around. See hse's you like and go in and ask them who designed it! Otherwise take pics and give them to the architect/draftsman to draw up something in the same style.