National fire service

sligolad1

I think Ireland should have a national fire service modeled on one like the northern Irish one. It would standardize training, resources etc. Dublin fire brigade would be target model. Obviously all firefighters couldn't be full time but you get the idea! What do ye think? Would also like to hear the opinions of firefighters!

sligolad1

This is an explanation of northern Ireland's fire service! http://www.irishfireservices.ie/irish-fire-services-overview/northern-ireland-frs

Bang Bang

A national fire service would be great from a financial perspective for sure, scale down the large number of chiefs for starters.

As for DFB being the target model, Why?

There's no doubt that the DFB have good resources but they don't have terrain like there are in other parts of the country so in my humble opinion the target model would be made from a collection of experienced fire and rescue personnel from the various counties that offer different operational demands, then the target model can be formed.

sawdoubters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Fire_Brigade

sligolad1

Bang Bang wrote: »

A national fire service would be great from a financial perspective for sure, scale down the large number of chiefs for starters.

As for DFB being the target model, Why?

There's no doubt that the DFB have good resources but they don't have terrain like there are in other parts of the country so in my humble opinion the target model would be made from a collection of experienced fire and rescue personnel from the various counties that offer different operational demands, then the target model can be formed.

I agree with you that it should be made from experienced personnel etc but dfb has additional specialist units like swift water rescue and height rescue etc. In my opinion a national fire service should have marine emergency fire team located near all the cost guard helis for fast response. Also as in northern Ireland I think Ireland should be divided into strategically designed regions!

pauld81

sligolad1 wrote: »

I think Ireland should have a national fire service modeled on one like the northern Irish one. It would standardize training, resources etc. Dublin fire brigade would be target model. Obviously all firefighters couldn't be full time but you get the idea! What do ye think? Would also like to hear the opinions of firefighters!

Yes! The government goes on about savings, imo there are way to many employed in fire service management.. But in fairness to them, there are some very good senior officers, just not all of them.
With regard to crewing, instead of Dublin, take example of the 5GDS (5 Group Duty Watch System) in Drogheda and Dundalk which has been taken in-part from Strathclyde Fire Service. This is the system that the National Fire Directorate want to implement for all whole time stations in Ireland.
- The first obvious problem, its a crew of five.. Standard drills are done with six personnel including the officer.
- At a fire call, there are insufficent personnel on the appliances to complete tasks.
IFESA are calling for a national fire service, but imo this needs to be adressed first!

Euthro

total cost of irish fire service including labour capital pensions etc in 2011 was 261million euro same year cost of northern irish fire service was 110million pounds they also received a grant of 65million to modernise, excluding that if we look at population of the republic v northern ireland and population density versus operating fire stations cause response time is as important as cost thats the point right. I know its a bit simplified we should do density per county and operating fire stations but:
Republic 4.5 million, North 1.7million
Cost : 261million euro 110million pound
Pop Density 161 sqkm 133sqkm
Fire Stations 216 56
full time 26plus 6

for twice the cost we provide far in excess of twice the service. note in links below show no of accidents response time etc if your interested in other factors. And brings up funding ie government,commercial rates,charges for service and supposedly ''household charge''

I want to clarify I am not advocatin the irish fire service is well run or efficient just showing stats between the republic and northern ireland.

http://www.niauditoffice.gov.uk/nifrs_final_2.pdf northern ireland cost

http://lifesavingfoundation.ie/index.php/members/members-new-section/irish-fire-brigade-statistics/ republic cost

http://www.irishfireservices.ie/irish-fire-services-overview fire stations republic

Blackbolt191

sligolad1 wrote: »

I agree with you that it should be made from experienced personnel etc but dfb has additional specialist units like swift water rescue and height rescue etc.

Most counties have these units as well not on DFB

CB19Kevo

What needs to be done is Fire to respond to EMS incidents where full time brigades operate and Fire should be deployed to life threatening incidents in retained areas when ambulances are not close by.

We need more ambulances but either way i cant see a valid reason to not implement this.

Tango Alpha 51

CB19Kevo wrote: »

What needs to be done is Fire to respond to EMS incidents where full time brigades operate and Fire should be deployed to life threatening incidents in retained areas when ambulances are not close by.

We need more ambulances but either way i cant see a valid reason to not implement this.

Why?. Surely the answer is to invest in more staff & vehicles for the ambulance service

CB19Kevo

Tango Alpha 51 wrote: »

Why?. Surely the answer is to invest in more staff & vehicles for the ambulance service

Why -
1.Because response time is critical for cardiac arrest,Resp difficulty,Major bleeds and the list goes on.
2.Extra numbers of trained people (EMT's,EFR's,OFA's,CFR's) can be utilised at incidents to :
-Ensure rapid entry and egress of Ambulance crew and casualty.
-Assist in BVM,Compressions,Patient Moving and equipment assembly.
3.Because if any delay occurs with an ambulance responding,Fire crews can use an AED,O2 and basic treatments to at least give someone a chance of survival.

Yes, You are right that there needs to be investment in More staff and vehicles in the NAS. However currently the system gets stretched and there has been horror stories of delays of over an hour for serious calls.
The Fire service nationally is well placed to assist at times like these.

Its nothing to do with taking NAS jobs its what i believe would best benefit the end user,As a ambulance will still need to be dispatched and a AP will still need to respond depending on the incident.

To simplify it: If someone i know drops in front of me and requires immediate assistance do you think i care if help arrives in a red van or a yellow Van....

Blackbolt191

Agreed totally CB19Kevo, one flaw in the plan though , most fire appliances in Ireland do not carry AEDs

CB19Kevo

Blackbolt191 wrote: »

Agreed totally CB19Kevo, one flaw in the plan though , most fire appliances in Ireland do not carry AEDs

The main appliance Should carry them. It would cost, However it is a vital piece of kit.

Blackbolt191

Agreed 100% , but its not only cost that is holding it up.

Tango Alpha 51

CB19Kevo wrote: »

Why -
1.Because response time is critical for cardiac arrest,Resp difficulty,Major bleeds and the list goes on.
2.Extra numbers of trained people (EMT's,EFR's,OFA's,CFR's) can be utilised at incidents to :
-Ensure rapid entry and egress of Ambulance crew and casualty.
-Assist in BVM,Compressions,Patient Moving and equipment assembly.
3.Because if any delay occurs with an ambulance responding,Fire crews can use an AED,O2 and basic treatments to at least give someone a chance of survival.

Yes, You are right that there needs to be investment in More staff and vehicles in the NAS. However currently the system gets stretched and there has been horror stories of delays of over an hour for serious calls.
The Fire service nationally is well placed to assist at times like these.

Its nothing to do with taking NAS jobs its what i believe would best benefit the end user,As a ambulance will still need to be dispatched and a AP will still need to respond depending on the incident.

To simplify it: If someone i know drops in front of me and requires immediate assistance do you think i care if help arrives in a red van or a yellow Van....

I don't disagree with you but as a member of the NAS, it's hard enough to get F&R now considering the CFO wants to bill us for turning ye out to rtc's. Whilst your idea is noble, I can't see it happening in the current climate. Maybe if there was a trade off ie ye respond in a first responder role & we train ye so it's cost neutral but then who decides how many ff's turn out?

Blackbolt191

Tango Alpha 51 wrote: »

I don't disagree with you but as a member of the NAS, it's hard enough to get F&R now considering the CFO wants to bill us for turning ye out to rtc's.

What county is that in TA? the bill goes to the end user of the service, at an RTA the reg numbers of the vehicles are taken and from that information the bills are sent out to those involved. If a dispute arises then it up to the insurance companies to fight it out amongst themselves. HSE is never billed for RTAs, what you may be mixing it up with is an ambulance assist call which is a different animal altogether, some counties do indeed bill the HSE for those alright.

Bang Bang

CB19Kevo wrote: »

Why -
1.Because response time is critical for cardiac arrest,Resp difficulty,Major bleeds and the list goes on.
2.Extra numbers of trained people (EMT's,EFR's,OFA's,CFR's) can be utilised at incidents to :
-Ensure rapid entry and egress of Ambulance crew and casualty.
-Assist in BVM,Compressions,Patient Moving and equipment assembly.
3.Because if any delay occurs with an ambulance responding,Fire crews can use an AED,O2 and basic treatments to at least give someone a chance of survival.

Yes, You are right that there needs to be investment in More staff and vehicles in the NAS. However currently the system gets stretched and there has been horror stories of delays of over an hour for serious calls.
The Fire service nationally is well placed to assist at times like these.

Its nothing to do with taking NAS jobs its what i believe would best benefit the end user,As a ambulance will still need to be dispatched and a AP will still need to respond depending on the incident.

To simplify it: If someone i know drops in front of me and requires immediate assistance do you think i care if help arrives in a red van or a yellow Van....

This is being addressed with the growing number of Advanced Paramedic RRV units throughout the country, with a bit more investment that could be an ambulance, no need for a fire tender. Equip tenders if they wish to divert their funds away from fire and rescue but investing in the ambulance service would mean the fire service can put their money into their specialist area.

Liamalone

Euthro wrote: »

total cost of irish fire service including labour capital pensions etc in 2011 was 261million euro same year cost of northern irish fire service was 110million pounds they also received a grant of 65million to modernise, excluding that if we look at population of the republic v northern ireland and population density versus operating fire stations cause response time is as important as cost thats the point right. I know its a bit simplified we should do density per county and operating fire stations but:
Republic 4.5 million, North 1.7million
Cost : 261million euro 110million pound
Pop Density 161 sqkm 133sqkm
Fire Stations 216 56
full time 26plus 6

for twice the cost we provide far in excess of twice the service. note in links below show no of accidents response time etc if your interested in other factors. And brings up funding ie government,commercial rates,charges for service and supposedly ''household charge''

I want to clarify I am not advocatin the irish fire service is well run or efficient just showing stats between the republic and northern ireland.

Errrm, N.Ireland has 68 stations with 16 of them being full time but your 'stats' say it has 56 and 6 respectively. Not much faith in the rest of the stats if that's the case.

The amount of Chief Fire Officers in RoI is madness and the money that goes on their salaries is a waste, some of these guys will be responsible for 4 or 5 stations lol

pauld81

Liamalone wrote: »

Errrm, N.Ireland has 68 stations with 16 of them being full time but your 'stats' say it has 56 and 6 respectively. Not much faith in the rest of the stats if that's the case.

The amount of Chief Fire Officers in RoI is madness and the money that goes on their salaries is a waste, some of these guys will be responsible for 4 or 5 stations lol

Only a week ago I would have fully agreed with ya, but when ya look at the amount of staff behind the Chief in NI, it wouldn't actually work out cheaper.. When the facts are put out there it makes sense.