Hospital appointments as sick days

coffeecup1980

Hi hoping someone can help. Tried NERA but on phone for the last few days for too long.
I work part time 20 hours per week. I've a disability that requires some days off for hospital appointments. I can't make it to Dublin and back to do my shift in the same day.
I am only entitled to 10 days holidays each year but my boss takes my appointments as sick days and pays me. I do not want to be paid.
I'd rather be out the money and take a holiday.
He says I can't do this. I am wondering if this is right at all.

Thank you

Senna

An employer can tell you when you have to take holidays unless there is a previous agreement.

An employer cannot require you to take annual leave if you are off certified as sick.

I don't think a hospital appointment could be classed as a certified sick, but from my experience a doctor will write a sick note for anything, as long as they get their €50.
You could phone the citizens advice and ask them.

coffeecup1980

Hi senna am not great with employers rights etc. Is annual leave a Holiday day?
We can take our holidays anytime in June July or August.
I wouldn't have an appt every week, just I get so few holidays and am facing massive surgery that I'd like to keep those days to go away somewhere after my surgery but he said if I've appt it comes out of my holiday days.
Maybe am wrong ,it just seams unfair.

Senna

Yeah sorry I mean holidays when I say annual leave.
Unfortunately sometimes things like this will seem unfair but be within your employers rights, allot of the time holidays are at employers discretion and if you are contracted to 20 hours per week, time off is either holidays or sick leave. The problem is employees could decide they want time off plus holidays which might leave an employer stuck for staff. Most of the time employers will work to help staff even if technically they don't have too. I assume this isn't covered in your employment contract?
Best thing to do is phone the citizens advice or NERA, I assume you don't have a union?

coffeecup1980

No no union. We were told three is no such thing as sick leave ? Say if I had an Emmergency that I wasn't fit for work he will except that and I wouldn't get paid and could save my holiday days but that seams to be it really.

schemingbohemia

A sick day is for an unexpected reason - that you're sick, not for a planned appointment.

Do you work a few hours every day? If not, then ask about having your appointments on non-work days.

Your original post is incorrect - your boss is regarding the days you are keeping your appointment as a holiday, not a sick day.

coffeecup1980

I work every day yes. I could only have one appt every couple of months. So not a lot really but because I am only entitled to very few holidays it gets to me.
Yes I ment holidays not sick days sorry.

Carawaystick

If you have to go to a hospital to see a doctor working there, as opposed to a GP,
I'd imagine you have some illness, you are getting treated.

If you have a permanent contract, or a contract of undefined duration, and your illness was not treated now, could result in you being unable to perform your work duties between now and normal retirement age, then I'd imagine the employer would have to let you get treated for the illness.

A person might also consider getting the doctor who referred someone to the hospital to write a sick note to allow for the fact that the only times a person can see the referred doctor was between X and Y, which happens to be during normal working hours.

Meteoric

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Do you work a few hours every day? If not, then ask about having your appointments on non-work days.

On this point, I got sick in 2012 (covered by certs) and had hospital appointments in 2013 every 6 weeks, the clinic was on a certain day for everyone with related issues, there was no possibility of me getting it moved. Last year the only full week off I got was for a medical procedure as most of my other holidays were used up on the check-ups, just the odd other day off. Sorry OP but my employer thought that was acceptable, though I didn't challenge them on it so it may be possible to do so.

coffeecup1980

I have been asked if I could attend the surgeons etc on other days. This isn't possibal as they have certain clinic days.
I was told by my boss I am fit for work those days and that it has to be put down as a holiday. If I was say to get surgery or rushed to A&E I wouldn't be fit for work so that's ok and not put down as a holiday.

My boss is a really nice guy in every other way. I have challenged it but told all of the above. Seams a bit unfair I think.

Meteoric

coffeecup1980 wrote: »

I have been asked if I could attend the surgeons etc on other days. This isn't possibal as they have certain clinic days.
I was told by my boss I am fit for work those days and that it has to be put down as a holiday. If I was say to get surgery or rushed to A&E I wouldn't be fit for work so that's ok and not put down as a holiday.

My boss is a really nice guy in every other way. I have challenged it but told all of the above. Seams a bit unfair I think.

Same for me, don't get paid for first three days sick anyhow (until social welfare kicks in when they take the SW payment and pay me fully) so no point in the €45 for visit to GP to get sick cert for one day. My immediate supervisor has questioned it but was apparently told that that is how it is, I agree it seems unfair, by having the check-ups I avoid being not able to work for 2 months like I had to do when sick.

sawdoubters

so your saying hes doing you a favour ,by calling it a sick day and paying you


could you not find hospital closer,


stay overnight in Dublin and get early appointment

Meteoric

sawdoubters wrote: »

so your saying hes doing you a favour ,by calling it a sick day and paying you


could you not find hospital closer,


stay overnight in Dublin and get early appointment

Have you ever had an appointment within the health service? I get an appointment time of 10:00 and am frequently seen well after 13:00 then have to queue for blood and other tests. Even with a workplace beside the hospital I'd struggle to make it to work that day. Not giving out about the hospital, they do their best and provide excellent care but they are not conducive to people having a working life because they can't be. It seems to me the OP would happily be unpaid for the days off if they could also take time to have actual time off and not just days where they have to wonder and worry about the state of their health.

spiralbound

coffeecup1980 wrote: »

I work every day yes. I could only have one appt every couple of months. So not a lot really but because I am only entitled to very few holidays it gets to me.
Yes I ment holidays not sick days sorry.

If you work every day, should you not have 20 days holiday rather than 10?

Ken.

Could you not work extra on other days. 20 hours a week is 5 4 hour shifts. Could you not say to your boss you'll do an 8 hour one day or 2 6's to make up the hours or you'll come in say a Saturday/Sunday for Wednesday off.

blue note

Is there any doubt over the advice in this thread? My gf is a diabetic with a couple of other conditions as well. She'd have a few hospital appointments per year and her new employer is insisting that these be counted as holiday days. It seems harsh that after she accounts for hospital appointments that she'd have a third less holiday's than most people.

No Pants

As far as I know, sick pay is a benefit, not an entitlement.

blue note

No Pants wrote: »

As far as I know, sick pay is a benefit, not an entitlement.

She'd be understanding if she could take them as unpaid sick days, but taking them as holiday days being the only option is very frustrating.

No Pants

blue note wrote: »

She'd be understanding if she could take them as unpaid sick days, but taking them as holiday days being the only option is very frustrating.

What does the company's absence policy state? It's possible that a certain number of sick days triggers disciplinary action.

blue note

My girlfriend rang Citizen's information about this and was told that they are not entitled to insist that she use her holiday days for this. They can class it as a sick day, unpaid leave or even time owed in lieu, but they cannot insist on calling it a holiday day.

I was thinking about this afterwards anyway - if someone has used all of their holiday days and then has medical issues for which they need to attend hospital appointments, if what people were saying on this thread is true then the employer could refuse to authorise the time off for the individual. Or if someone became pregnant and had used all of their holiday leave, the employer could refuse to let the woman go for scans, check-ups, etc. It's simply not a rule that makes sense.

And anyway, in the interest of assisting people with disabilities work, you'd have to allow appointments to not be taken from holiday leave.