New car, wind noise from drivers door

dnme

Hi folks.

Bought a new Mazda CX-5 in January. It is a truly magnificent beast, I adore it. But there is sometimes wind noise coming from the drivers door when at high speeds or when there are cross winds. It sounds like the door is not closed properly. It does not happen all the time, just usually when at high speed in cross winds.

I have been to the dealer, they took it for a spin and that was about it. I have emailed Mazda with the issue and they have referred the email back to the dealer. So now the dealer are going to ring me again and god knows what they will fob me off with this time.

I know there are far worse problems in the world but this is driving me crazy. I drove home there on Sunday night when it was stormy and it was awful. Just not right if you know what I mean. I'm driving 30+ years and never experienced this before.

What I would expect the dealer to do is a a diagnosis / troubleshoot of the issue. But AFAICT, all they did was take it for a spin. Am I being reasonable in asking them to carry out proper diagnosis ?

1. Cabin air pressure test like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KipdOymCzZA
2. Measure / check door alignment
3. Measure / check lock catch alignment / position
4. Replace door seals if necessary

Am I right to be asking for this ? How far do I take this ?
Any advice greatly appreciated.

Noccy_Mondy

I'm sure you've already checked, but is the weather strip missing? A missing one can cause a lot of wind noise.

dnme

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

I'm sure you've already checked, but is the weather strip missing? A missing one can cause a lot of wind noise.

You mean the rubber seals? they are in place and look ok.

MuppetCheck

Big mirrors on them, you'd be surprised how much noise they can throw up. Might be worth hitting the fold button for a minute too see...empty motorway of course:p

I have found Mazda dealers fairly accommodating regarding faults, hope they sort it.

dnme

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Big mirrors on them, you'd be surprised how much noise they can throw up.

I have found Mazda dealers fairly accommodating regarding faults, hope they sort it.

Not the mirrors. This is not ambient or road noise, Nor is it ambient wind resistance noise. I have tried retracting the mirrors at speed and it made no difference to the noise.

This noise is intermittent. It doesn't always happen. When it does happen, its usually at high speed / in high winds. It's coming from the drivers door, where precisely I cannot be sure but seems to be from the top or back of the door. The noise if similar to that of driving without the door being properly closed.

BorneTobyWilde

Seems it's a flaw, if you google it you will see that everyone complaints about the wind noise in the Mazda CX-5
So no fault with car, just a design flaw it seems

Noccy_Mondy

Dunno about mazda's but some makes have these yokes, that run along the bottom of the doors, from front to rear
http://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/image.php?url=/images_orig/1702787/1.jpg
Sorry can't get the pic in.

Atlantic Dawn

Can you pinpoint where the general noise is coming from, is there a similar noise from the passenger door?

Have you tried lowering the window when you experience the noise to see if it's a case of the window not sealing properly when raised?

sawdoubters

bring it back to dealer to adjust it

http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/2014-mazda-3-skyactiv-discussion/37642-whistle-wind-noise-driver-side.html

JoeA3

I had this problem with a MK6 Golf. The dealers adjusted the door hinges and that solved it.

dnme

Its not the window, I have tried opening closing it etc. I cannot say if it happens on the passenger side for sure but I cannot hear anything from that side.

I guess my question is, am I right or reasonable to ask the dealer to carry out the checks I listed in my Op ?

JoeA3

dnme wrote: »

Its not the window, I have tried opening closing it etc. I cannot say if it happens on the passenger side for sure but I cannot hear anything from that side.

I guess my question is, am I right or reasonable to ask the dealer to carry out the checks I listed in my Op ?

Of course you are. Bring it back to them. It may be a known issue and if it is they'll have a fix for it. My money is on the door hinges / catch needing very slight adjustment.

noelf

Did a Google check on this lots of pages Looked at the Daily Star report they weren't impressed by the noise levels. Time op to go back to dealer and get them either sort it or money back all the best.

dnme

Thing is,

I spoke to the dealer, and then emailed the dealer with the issue. The car was then booked in for its 2000km check. As part of that, they told me they took it for a spin and noticed no real noise. I was disappointed at that response. I thought they might throw a little more effort into diagnosis. So I went down the road of emailing Mazda customer service which is in the UK. They have now referred the matter back to my dealer who are going to phone me some day this week. I just don't want to be going around the houses like this.

One week after buying the car, I said it to the sales person in the dealership, that there was wind noise coming from the door. He agreed and said he noticed this in the model also. So I'm worried it might be an inherent issue with the model, and if it is, Mazda may well make every effort to fob me off. How far do I push this ?

dnme

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Seems it's a flaw, if you google it you will see that everyone complaints about the wind noise in the Mazda CX-5
So no fault with car, just a design flaw it seems

I'm not seeing so many pages after googling. Ive found one or two, thats all. Can you show me some links you have found ?

noelf

JoeA3 wrote: »

I had this problem with a MK6 Golf. The dealers adjusted the door hinges and that solved it.

When I saw the thread title golf 6 came to mind first I have one too. The wind noise is more prevalent on gusty days at least it can be sorted

07Lapierre

What speed are you travelling at when you hear the wind noise? ( be honest now )

dnme

07Lapierre wrote: »

What speed are you travelling at when you hear the wind noise? ( be honest now )

The noise is intermittent, when it happens, it's usually at speeds over 80km. If the car is facing the right way in cross winds, it's terrible. It makes the car feel cold and insecure. As if the door is not quite closed properly.

smokie72

98 Ford Escort 1.4

biko

Tuck in the wing mirrors and try it out for a spin. If noise is gone it's not the windows.

dnme

biko wrote: »

Tuck in the wing mirrors and try it out for a spin. If noise is gone it's not the windows.

Already covered this on previous page.

07Lapierre

dnme wrote: »

The noise is intermittent, when it happens, it's usually at speeds over 80km. If the car is facing the right way in cross winds, it's terrible. It makes the car feel cold and insecure. As if the door is not quite closed properly.

Avoid motorways? ..... Sorry, couldn't resist .....

If it was my car I'd go back to the dealer and ask if a mechanic would go for a drive with you... You drive and the mechanic can try and isolate where the noise is coming from.

dnme

07Lapierre wrote: »

Avoid motorways? ..... Sorry, couldn't resist .....

If it was my car I'd go back to the dealer and ask if a mechanic would go for a drive with you... You drive and the mechanic can try and isolate where the noise is coming from.

Its intermittent, depends on atmospheric conditions, wind etc. So sods law dictates that if the dealer and me go for a spin, the car will behave perfectly. I think this needs a more scientific / diagnostic approach such as I mention in my op.

07Lapierre

dnme wrote: »

Its intermittent, depends on atmospheric conditions, wind etc. So sods law dictates that if the dealer and me go for a spin, the car will behave perfectly. I think this needs a more scientific / diagnostic approach such as I mention in my op.

No harm asking your dealer for the smoke test.

whizbang

I have had this issue in the Avensis. The first one i had, was temporary, so it didnt really do anything about it.
I got into the habit of giving the window a thump with my elbow, often seemed to sort it.

The second Avensis, I noticed it was related to the upper limit position of the window. I used to just tickle the switch for window up to the best position that gave the least noise.

Toyota service didn't seem to think anything was wrong, I didn't feel like banging my head against the wall.

More disappointed that the build quality allowed this to happen.

No real problem in the new 6.

SleeperService

If you have a look for subaru forester wind noise discussions you'll see how some people used vacuum pipe or similar to plump up door seals/weatherstrip. Might be worth trying as a debug option or as a remedy.

dnme

SleeperService wrote: »

If you have a look for subaru forester wind noise discussions you'll see how some people used vacuum pipe or similar to plump up door seals/weatherstrip. Might be worth trying as a debug option or as a remedy.

Yeah, I came across this modification to door seal, but do I really want to go messing with the car?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XR-J7VTN80

SleeperService

dnme wrote: »

Yeah, I came across this modification to door seal, but do I really want to go messing with the car?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XR-J7VTN80

Cant see that link where I am. The vacuum hose thing is totally reversible and cheap, be worth it (maybe) to narrow the noise down to a particular area or something.(start with a lot of hose, then cut bits till noise comes back)

But yeah, I'd rather Mazda gave you a proper fix rather than having a diy bodge. At least the subarus had the excuse of frame less windows for noise/sealing issues.(had an air leak myself at 100kph, very annoying)

keithclancy

How about trying some silicon spray on the door seals ?

BrensBenz

keithclancy wrote: »

How about trying some silicon spray on the door seals ?

Ooooh, you'll have the rubber police shouting at you about rubber vs. silicon!

This may be a bit crude for the OP but it helped me to pinpoint similar wind noise in my chariot. I applied insulating tape on any gap that might cause the noise (my car is dark black so I used black tape). Get to speed and, if there is no noise, remove one strip of tape. Get to speed again and....etc. This should identify the cause.

My noise was due to a very slight gap between the window and the rubber strip attached to the exterior of the door. The gap was almost invisible when parked but, presumably when at speed, wind pressure, vortices, high / low pressure on various surfaces, etc. can cause movement. The dealer made a slight adjustment to the window runners - forcing the window tighter to the strip - and......perfect silence. And it only cost a couple of metres of insulating tape!

keithclancy

BrensBenz wrote: »

Ooooh, you'll have the rubber police shouting at you about rubber vs. silicon!

Fair Enuff ... Its better than the doors being frozen shut in the Winter

Or worse, someone ripping the rear door seal off trying to get in.

Stallingrad

If it was me I'd tape up the exterior door seal first at the leading edge, then go for a drive. Then tape the top of the door, then go for a dive, then tape up the trailing edge. Enter from the passenger side. :-) This should identity where exactly on the frame the noise is coming from.

Then I would try to bulk out the rubber seal at that point. You could also adjust the door striker plate moving it inward a fraction to tighten the door close.

BrensBenz

keithclancy wrote: »

Fair Enuff ... Its better than the doors being frozen shut in the Winter

Or worse, someone ripping the rear door seal off trying to get in.

You know that talcum powder you always get for Christmas? I use that on door rubbers. Prevents frozen door seals, nappy rash and smells great!
But don't tell the giver about this alternative use, unless you want some time alone in the doghouse. Vision but no sound!

bucketybuck

dnme wrote: »

1. Cabin air pressure test like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KipdOymCzZA
2. Measure / check door alignment
3. Measure / check lock catch alignment / position
4. Replace door seals if necessary

Am I right to be asking for this ? How far do I take this ?
Any advice greatly appreciated.

Who is paying them to do this?

I not trying to be facetious here, this is the question that any garage is asking themselves for every single job. They are a business and they want to know who is paying them to do the work. Their problem in this case is that the issue is only intermittent, and so when they test drove the car I bet they didn't hear a single thing wrong. If they cannot even see a fault, just how far are they expected to go to in trying to recreate it?

Say they do all of the above, including replace all of the door seals, and you come back and say that the noise is still there, are you going to pay for the door seals? I bet you won't. If the dealer puts his best mechanic on the job and he spends 8 hours driving the car to try and hear the fault but it doesn't happen, will you pay for the mechanics time? And they cannot reclaim the costs from manufacturer warranty because they have neither found a fault nor identified the cause of said fault. So what do they do? They can't find a fault to fix and they can't just throw parts at a fault that doesn't seem to exist, its a ****ty case for them.

I'm only saying this to show both sides of the story, if there is a fault with your new car then it should indeed be put right, that goes without saying.

I actually had a similar case last year, a company insisted that there was a whistling noise from the corner of their windscreen when driving. We tested the truck for a few hours but could not locate the cause of fault, but we were sure it was not the windscreen anyway. The customer came back and went spare because we had not just changed the windscreen on his say-so. Threatened legal action and going to the papers and all that other rubbish that people like to spout. To appease him our directer told us to just replace the windscreen anyway. We had to pay €650 out of our own budget, and one week later what did we hear? Yep, the whistling noise was still in the cab, nothing to do with the fecking windscreen. Imagine that!

ETA: One other thing. If there is a fault with the door seals or the door itself, I am actually surprised that the fault is only intermittent? Surely it should always be there at speed?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Put the window down and bend the back corner if the door/window frame inwards slightly. You'll probably have to put your knee to the door to get leverage and it may only bend a few mm but you'd be amazed what a few mil does in cases like that.

Stallingrad

CJC999 wrote: »

Put the window down and bend the back corner if the door/window frame inwards slightly. You'll probably have to put your knee to the door to get leverage and it may only bend a few mm but you'd be amazed what a few mil does in cases like that.

You would be amazed what this does to your shut lines too. This really is a last resort. If there is a problem with the design of the door seals I've no doubt Mazda are modifying the part.

keithclancy

CJC999 wrote: »

Put the window down and bend the back corner if the door/window frame inwards slightly. You'll probably have to put your knee to the door to get leverage and it may only bend a few mm but you'd be amazed what a few mil does in cases like that.

Mr.David

Okay, you need to buy a roll of strong tape. Then tape up all aperatures on the drivers door one by one e.g. firstly just all around the window, then the waistline seal, then add the door perimeter (and enter via passenger side).

This method will help pinpoint any defective seal. The other possible causes are more difficult. If it is a whistle type noise, it could well be caused by the mirror as previously mentioned, even if it does not seem to sound like it is coming from it. Again, tape up the mirror, from glass to mirror head, all around any separation or sharp edge on the mirror head, the point at which it connects to the sail and to the body of the car itself. Repeat the process and see if the noise has gone.

The last obvious cause is the A post baffle (back of front fender) behind the front wheel and forward of the lower door aperature. This is often a sealed cavity, as what can happen when it is not sealed is that air rushes from the engine bay through this region and continues through the A post internal structure. Hence the problem SOUNDS as if it is coming from the upper window region but is in fact due to a missing baffle in the lower a post.

Basically you need to go through a process of elimination.

dnme

keithclancy wrote: »

How about trying some silicon spray on the door seals ?

tried that, no good

dnme

Thanks to everyone for all the replies.

The dealer and I get on very well. They are local and I purposely gave them the business. It's just that I was disappointed that they made no effort to diagnose a problem that I emailed and spoke to them about. A diagnosis should be a bit more scientific than taking a car for a spin especially when I explained the intermittent nature of the issue.

In any event, dealer rang me this morning and has booked the car in for next Thursday. Now it's down to trust I guess, will they actually try to diagnose the issue or just take it for another spin. Anyway, lets see what happens.

If nothing comes form next Thursday, I might try the process of elimination suggestion by taping up areas and removing them one by one. Just a bit apprehensive about putting tape on my paintwork.

Failing that, I might consider an car audio specialist. Some of these guys specialise in noise reduction and diagnosing wind noise etc.

With regard to an earlier post about who pays for all this dealer work ?
Firstly they have put no real work into the issue at all yet.
Secondly, Its a brand new car, covered by warranty and I paid big money for it, so I expect it ti be right.

noelf

Maybe you should print this thread out and leave it on passenger seat .could they give you similar car to drive while your car is in ?

Stallingrad

Just keep in mind the dealer will probably be doing some of what has been suggested here to diagnose the issue (if they had any sense). If you try the taping and can identity where the noise is coming from, you are far more likely to get them to try and sort it.

dnme

noelf wrote: »

Maybe you should print this thread out and leave it on passenger seat .could they give you similar car to drive while your car is in ?

No need, I work in same town so they will just drop me back to work.

dnme

Stallingrad wrote: »

Just keep in mind the dealer will probably be doing some of what has been suggested here to diagnose the issue (if they had any sense). If you try the taping and can identity where the noise is coming from, you are far more likely to get them to try and sort it.

Is it safe to put tape on the bodywork? any particular type of tape better than others for avoiding damage to paint ?

noelf

dnme wrote: »

No need, I work in same town so they will just drop me back to work.

If you got another car you could compare them ...

Stallingrad

dnme wrote: »

Is it safe to put tape on the bodywork? any particular type of tape better than others for avoiding damage to paint ?

I would use low tack masking tape, or insulation tape should both work. Don't use duct tape as it can leave residue when removed. Whatever you use it won't harm the paintwork.

Start at the leading edge, then do the top of door and work you way to the trialling edge, leaving the tape on as you go. In and out via the passenger door. Then remove all three sections of tape when finished. If the noise is coming from a poor seal then this should identify it and where.

gerrykin22

hi op.
as we are promised a storm this weekend you should borrow a different car (same model of course) and see does it have the problem.
if it does its a design fault.
if not your new car is faulty.

you can tell the dealer he is getting one shot to sort it. if he fails to sort it you will
1 look for a refund.
2 accept a different car
3 accept a couple of grand off what you paid and take car as it is.

the longer you let the problem presist the less come back you will have.

gerrykin22

hi op.
as we are promised a storm this weekend you should borrow a different car (same model of course) and see does it have the problem.
if it does its a design fault.
if not your new car is faulty.

you can tell the dealer he is getting one shot to sort it. if he fails to sort it you will
1 look for a refund.
2 accept a different car
3 accept a couple of grand off what you paid and take car as it is.

the longer you let the problem presist the less come back you will have.

gerrykin22

you should ask the dealer to go for a spin with you on saturday as its promised stormy and see can he identify the problem.

dnme

I think I have identified the source of the noise (or at least one source of noise, there may be others).

I was on the motorway tonight (Ennis to Gort). There was wind noise again but it was not that loud, as I say it seems to depend on atmospheric conditions a lot but it was definitely there. I could hear it.

The road was very quiet so I did a bit of proper listening and feeling about the door / window as I cruised at 110km/h. I had a wooly hat with me so I started placing that along the inside of the door seal, listening then moving it along etc.

The noise I was hearing tonight comes from the top rear corner of the drivers door. I am not sure if it's the door seal or the window glass seal, but when I placed the wooly cap up into that corner, the noise immediately goes. I think myself it's a slight flaw in the window seal right in that corner. The window is fully closed, I tried lowering and raising it a few times. Also tried putting pressure on the seal with my hand but this seems to make no difference.

So it's a start eh.

bucketybuck

gerrykin22 wrote: »

hi op.
as we are promised a storm this weekend you should borrow a different car

Oh good, because you don't get any air movement at 110kph do you...