rte 1 programme about road rage tonight

ezra_pound

There's a programme about road rage tonight featuring cyclists. Think it's on after 9 o'clock news.

tacklemore

yeah, its covering road rage of all varieties, not just cyclists. Should make for interesting watching. Wonder will some of it be over-the-top on purpose?

Darkglasses

I see that courier ALL the time.

Darkglasses

Janey this is like watching paint dry.

rizzodun

Did they really have to pick the most obnoxious cyclist to put forward the cyclist point of view? Getting little sympathy on twitter right now..

Darkglasses

rizzodun wrote: »

Did they really have to pick the most obnoxious cyclist to put forward the cyclist point of view? Getting little sympathy on twitter right now..

Goes with the territory of making a tv show unfortunately!

rizzodun

Darkglasses wrote: »

Goes with the territory of making a tv show unfortunately!

Getting little sympathy on the thread in the motors forum either! Interesting social experiment, follow both threads and see what's said.

Rambling Man

rizzodun wrote: »

Did they really have to pick the most obnoxious cyclist to put forward the cyclist point of view? Getting little sympathy on twitter right now..

He's a tad cocky alright. But he probably does get cut off by drivers all the time. A better spokesman would have been better (see what I did there?)

Darkglasses

Jesus it's turned into Hardy Bucks.

stampydmonkey

Fighting, schlapping and baatings!

Darkglasses

He'll solve it either by fighting or by handball.

brayblue24

Darkglasses wrote: »

Jesus it's turned into Hardy Bucks.

I said that to herself just as the van came up behind your man in the Mitsubishi. I though it might have been the Shligo boys

rizzodun

brayblue24 wrote: »

I said that to herself just as the van came up behind your man in the Mitsubishi. I though it might have been the Shligo boys

You should take a trip to 'Shligo' more often if you think that's our accent.

brayblue24

rizzodun wrote: »

You should take a trip to 'Shligo' more often if you think that's our accent.

I don't. Read the posts above mine

rizzodun

brayblue24 wrote: »

I don't. Read the posts above mine

We tore the handball alleys down years ago too :P

Lawrence1895

No offense, but I don't think, courier cyclists are representing all the cyclists in Dublin. They are on a tight schedule and most likely in a hurry.

I would have appreciated a bit more focus on those cyclists, who use the bike for the daily commute like myself...but I think, you can't please everybody.

Pinch Flat

For balance they should have had a white van man doing deliveries, 'ah jaysus bud', showing the challenges of the average motorist (I'm joking).

No, I agree than other than concentrating on the courier, they should have shown more general cyclists and the challenges they face commuting to work. I found it a car-centric documentary, but then again we are a car-centered society. None of the behavior was new or revealing. That guy in the VW jeep at Leeson Bridge needed his car taken and crushed. What a d!ck.

As for students driving to college - in my day, we had a bike and survived on pot noodles.:pac:

EB_2013

Pinch Flat wrote: »

As for students driving to college - in my day, we had a bike and survived on pot noodles.:pac:

Yeah, she said she was on the breadline but could afford to run a Focus estate.

I don't think that courier represented the average cycling commuter. He was showing off all the time, all over the roads and nowhere near the bike lanes. They could have found a much better example.

Iwannahurl

Not much of interest in the programme. Certainly didn't merit all the advance publicity, imo.

I thought Conor Faughnan actually sounded quite balanced and reasonable.

The Galway segment was an ad for a bypass, without any attempt at even briefly referring to the realities of car use and car dependence in the city. How did they select the Galway 'representatives' I wonder?

nak

Pinch Flat wrote: »

As for students driving to college - in my day, we had a bike and survived on pot noodles.:pac:

I used to drive to university (didn't own a bike), sold my car when I moved to Dublin and cycle to work.

Jabel

Completely useless programme in my opinion. Spent an hour saying nothing we didn't know already.
Only one fact stayed with me, the reduced Garda presence on the road being directly correlated to
the rise in number of deaths. It also confirmed the one thing we all know, there are an awful lot of
a***holes out there in all modes of transport.

Pinch Flat

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The Galway segment was an ad for a bypass, without any attempt at even briefly referring to the realities of car use and car dependence in the city.

Have to say it painted a grim picture of Galway in terms of car dependency and the little space available to cyclists. My brotehr used to commute Oranmore to Barna a few times a week - some of the stories sounded made it sound grim. I'm not from the 'cycling is dangerous camp', but some of the situations faced there look pretty dodgy.

doozerie

Darkglasses wrote:

I see that courier ALL the time.

I'm not sure whether there was more than one cycle courier in the programme (I only watched the second half and based on that I won't be bothering to go back and watch the first half!), but the guy I saw in it I've seen quite a few times on my commute. The behaviour of his that I've observed on many occasions plants him firmly in the obnoxious prat camp. Any complaints he might have made during the programme about the behaviour of others towards him are completely and utterly undermined by his treating other road users as if they simply are not there. His antics are the kind that get cyclists generally a bad name, I wish they'd chosen someone fuelled less by ego to represent cyclists in the programme.

intellectual dosser

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Have to say it painted a grim picture of Galway in terms of car dependency and the little space available to cyclists. My brotehr used to commute Oranmore to Barna a few times a week - some of the stories sounded made it sound grim. I'm not from the 'cycling is dangerous camp', but some of the situations faced there look pretty dodgy.

In Galway cycle lanes appear to be used more often by cars, and I'm saying that as a mild criticism again both motorists and cyclists.

Tenzor07

Haven't seen it yet but it seems to be getting some awful reviews, using that courier was just an attempt to dramatize it from what I gather!

Apparently the Dublin cycling campaign offered the producers helmet-cam video but they didn't use it..

Also the fact that motorists were represented by Conor Faughnan from AA Ireland, no one to represent cyclists though! :mad:

Zyzz

doozerie wrote: »

I'm not sure whether there was more than one cycle courier in the programme (I only watched the second half and based on that I won't be bothering to go back and watch the first half!), but the guy I saw in it I've seen quite a few times on my commute. The behaviour of his that I've observed on many occasions plants him firmly in the obnoxious prat camp. Any complaints he might have made during the programme about the behaviour of others towards him are completely and utterly undermined by his treating other road users as if they simply are not there. His antics are the kind that get cyclists generally a bad name, I wish they'd chosen someone fuelled less by ego to represent cyclists in the programme.

Incredibly precise post about that idiot!

Iwannahurl

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Haven't seen it yet but it seems to be getting some awful reviews, using that courier was just an attempt to dramatize it from what I gather!

Apparently the Dublin cycling campaign offered the producers helmet-cam video but they didn't use it..

Also the fact that motorists were represented by Conor Faughnan from AA Ireland, no one to represent cyclists though! :mad:

Conor Faughnan gets an astonishing amount of airtime. He was, and maybe still is, even on Government-instituted panels making recommendations on issues such as speed limits and speed surveillance. No cycling reps involved to the same extent, afaik.

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Have to say it painted a grim picture of Galway in terms of car dependency and the little space available to cyclists. My brotehr used to commute Oranmore to Barna a few times a week - some of the stories sounded made it sound grim. I'm not from the 'cycling is dangerous camp', but some of the situations faced there look pretty dodgy.

One of the commentators selected for the Galway segment insisted that a bypass is needed because there are too many cars. He has also campaigned, apparently without noticing any contradiction, for attracting more cars into the centre of Galway by providing free or cheaper parking.

The programme didn't even allude to such issues, yet alone attempt to discuss them.

The bit about the car crash survivor going into schools on an ad hoc basis is classic Irish muppetry under the banner of "education".

Chips Lovell

doozerie wrote: »

I'm not sure whether there was more than one cycle courier in the programme (I only watched the second half and based on that I won't be bothering to go back and watch the first half!), but the guy I saw in it I've seen quite a few times on my commute. The behaviour of his that I've observed on many occasions plants him firmly in the obnoxious prat camp. Any complaints he might have made during the programme about the behaviour of others towards him are completely and utterly undermined by his treating other road users as if they simply are not there. His antics are the kind that get cyclists generally a bad name, I wish they'd chosen someone fuelled less by ego to represent cyclists in the programme.

Thousands of cyclists in the city and they pick that guy. Unbelievable.

Tenzor07

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Conor Faughnan gets an astonishing amount of airtime. He was, and maybe still is, even on Government-instituted panels making recommendations on issues such as speed limits and speed surveillance. No cycling reps involved to the same extent, afaik..

My point was that there was NO cycling representative at all, and there are people in the Dublin cycling campaign who would be well able to present views from a cyclists perspective..

Chips Lovell

I don't think the Dublin Cycling Campaign is terribly representative of cyclists either.

Tenzor07

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I don't think the Dublin Cycling Campaign is terribly representative of cyclists either.

Would have been better than that Cartoon Courier they got though!

Chips Lovell

That's true.

nak

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Would have been better than that Cartoon Courier they got though!

Not sure what Cyclone were thinking either, plenty of other couriers to choose from.

blackvalley

Strange that everyone involved complained or remarked about the bad driving / cycling behaviour of everyone else. In other words nobody admitted to ever making mistakes or behaving badly themselves. SO the question is who are all these bad drivers / cyclists . I have never been involved in a discussion with work collegues , family or friends where anyone admitted to being less than a great driver or commuter. Its always SOMEBODY ELSE causing the problem . Strange that !:D:rolleyes:

Rogue-Trooper

I recognised the guy on the scooter who dodged the barrier at the tunnel toll booth as one of the lads in work. He admitted it was him but had no idea he was in the programme.

Needless to say I may have let it slip to my colleagues and the RTE Player clip has been doing the rounds of the office since yesterday! Morto!

Pinch Flat

blackvalley wrote: »

Strange that everyone involved complained or remarked about the bad driving / cycling behaviour of everyone else. In other words nobody admitted to ever making mistakes or behaving badly themselves. SO the question is who are all these bad drivers / cyclists . I have never been involved in a discussion with work collegues , family or friends where anyone admitted to being less than a great driver or commuter. Its always SOMEBODY ELSE causing the problem . Strange that !:D:rolleyes:

My silliest motoring moment - running out if petrol on a country road. Rang the wife to bring fuel in a billy can. Traffic mayhem ensued and no matter why I did I couldn't stop drivers doing stupid things - like jumping the queue a few cars back into incoming cars. I created a very dangerous situation that morning.

As a cyclist - on my morning routine I used to watch the opposite lights change and anticipate my own one going green. Except this morning they'd altered the sequence. So I cycled out right I front of a car going the driver heart failure

Learned my lesson from both incidents above

Wishbone Ash

nak wrote: »

Not sure what Cyclone were thinking either, plenty of other couriers to choose from.

I'm open to correction but I think most couriers are 'self employed' even though they may be contracted to one company on commission based earning. I presume Cyclone may not have known he was going to feature.

In saying that, I don't think they seem to give 2c about the vast majority of their couriers who routinely perform illegal and dangerous manoeuvres while advertising their company.

blackvalley wrote: »

Strange that everyone involved complained or remarked about the bad driving / cycling behaviour of everyone else....

Just like the fact that most drivers don't see themselves as contributors to traffic problems/delays. "Traffic" always seems to be other people!

nak

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm open to correction but I think most couriers are 'self employed' even though they may be contracted to one company on commission based earning. I presume Cyclone may not have known he was going to feature.

In saying that, I don't think they seem to give 2c about the vast majority of their couriers who routinely perform illegal and dangerous manoeuvres while advertising their company.

They are contractors working for Cyclone. On previous occassions, the company was asked to provide a courier for TV (in the past they used an older courier who came across well). They take complaints from people very seriously and couriers are given a warning or even fired. That being said, they get a load of complaints from people that are complete nonsense (how dare they cycle on the road, not wearing a helmet/ hi-vis etc).

CramCycle

Darkglasses wrote: »

I see that courier ALL the time.

Rambling Man wrote: »

He's a tad cocky alright. But he probably does get cut off by drivers all the time. A better spokesman would have been better (see what I did there?)

doozerie wrote: »

His antics are the kind that get cyclists generally a bad name, I wish they'd chosen someone fuelled less by ego to represent cyclists in the programme.

I see him a few times as well, surprised he is not dead by now, swinging wide while I am mid overtake without looking over his shoulder and than pratting about jumping on the pavement at google to save time and he still gets beaten to the junction by everyone from hybrids to BSOs because he is too busy having near misses with peds.

rizzodun wrote: »

You should take a trip to 'Shligo' more often if you think that's our accent.

More like a Galway accent,

nak wrote: »

Not sure what Cyclone were thinking either, plenty of other couriers to choose from.

I doubt they had anything to do with it, I know quite a few lads who work with Cyclone most of them are really nice people, he is in no way a rep for that company.

ghogie91

Terrible representation of everything really!

Rocko Dolan was not an accurate representative of cyclists, complaining about the bike to work boys

The toll operator wasnt a fair representative either

As for yer wan driving with the monitor on her ear.. utterly pointless

Iwannahurl

CramCycle wrote: »

More like a Galway accent,

Ah lads, would ye shtop.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I don't think the Dublin Cycling Campaign is terribly representative of cyclists either.

Why not? What about cyclist.ie?

Chips Lovell

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Why not? What about cyclist.ie?

Tiny membership and tend to be a bit extremist in their outlook, i.e. rarely acknowledging that cyclists too can be part of the problem and make excuses for poor cycling. I gather cyclist.ie is just an umbrella group for a few of the city cycling campaigns.

ThisRegard

CramCycle wrote: »

swinging wide while I am mid overtake without looking over his shoulder

He done that with me once around St. Stephens Green, while I was in a car. He did get a fright but he reacted be telling me it was my fault, but I could tell his heart wasn't in it and realised he was close to getting knocked off due to his own mistake.

Tenzor07

I think this guy thought he was "Wilee" in the film! It's probably what the production team who made this "documentary" wanted anyways! :rolleyes:

Iwannahurl

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Tiny membership and tend to be a bit extremist in their outlook, i.e. rarely acknowledging that cyclists too can be part of the problem and make excuses for poor cycling. I gather cyclist.ie is just an umbrella group for a few of the city cycling campaigns.

Any damning quotes?

Chips Lovell

There was your man Mike McKillen objecting to fining cyclists for breaking red lights:

Mr McKillen also said that fining cyclists for breaking red lights could create disruption at traffic junctions. "Cyclist will all mass at the bike box [at the top of the junction] and when the lights go green drivers will be impeded by the herd there," he said. "By breaking red lights at junctions it frees up that space.

Iwannahurl

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

There was your man Mike McKillen objecting to fining cyclists for breaking red lights:

My understanding of the Dublin Cycling Campaign and cyclist.ie position on the traffic signals issue is that it is more nuanced and ramified than the above 'soundbite' would suggest.

Signal-controlled junctions tend to be safer for cyclists than other designs such as roundabouts. However, the attitude of some cyclists to red traffic signals is a source of controversy and triggers condemnation even from some who are otherwise sympathetic. The issue of cyclist safety at signalised junctions requires honest and open discussion. In some cases the issue is clear-cut. For instance, the refusal of some cyclists to respect red lights at pedestrian crossings is unacceptable, and there is a clear requirement for robust action by the Gardaí to tackle this wherever it occurs. Other aspects of cyclist behaviour at traffic lights are less clear-cut since, as will be shown below, Irish traffic engineers have been training Irish cyclists to ignore red lights.

Those who would advise and educate cyclists must, in the first instance, have regard to the duties pertaining to personal safety and the safety of others that are enshrined in the Roads Act. The fact that some action may be lawful within the traffic regulations does not necessarily render it safe. Conversely, the fact that some action may be unlawful under the traffic regulations does not necessarily render it dangerous. Thus, simplistic assertions such as “always keep left”, “always use cycle lanes” or “always stop at red lights” may act to cause, rather than prevent, avoidable deaths. Once these issues exist there is a duty to introduce them for discussion, though doing so does not imply approval of lawbreaking.

Source: http://www.dublincycling.ie/sites/dublincycling.ie/files/users/9/ncp-submission-19-10-08.pdf

Chips Lovell

Irish traffic engineers have been training Irish cyclists to ignore red lights

I rest my case.

CramCycle

Iwannahurl wrote: »

DCC: Thus, simplistic assertions such as “always keep left”, “always use cycle lanes” or “always stop at red lights” may act to cause, rather than prevent, avoidable deaths.

Fair enough on the first two but claiming the last seems preposterous. Stopping at red lights could kill someone, quite the opposite. Maybe the quote should have been "Simplistic assertions such as: always stop in a position that brings you into either conflict or a blind spot of other road users at red lights, usually accomplished by staying left or using cycle lanes may lead to accidents, injuries or worse."

Iwannahurl

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I rest my case.

Which case?

CramCycle

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Which case?

That they blame everyone except cyclists I presume.