Public hearings for teachers considered unfit to teach.

Peter Flynt

The Sunday Times is reporting today that teachers will face fitness to teach hearings in public and coordinated by the Teaching Council by the end of this year.

A spokeswoman for the Minister stated that "if a parent complains that their child isn't getting As that doesn't mean the teacher has to face a hearing".

Thoughts?

2011abc

"You didnt give my kid an A in their Junior Cert ,fine ,Im bring you in front of the public hearings for fitness to teach".

Bananatop

Peter Flynt wrote: »

A spokeswoman for the Minister stated that "if a parent complains that their child isn't getting As that doesn't mean the teacher has to face a hearing".

Most parents (and their children) are sound out, and understand how much can be realistically done in a teaching day.Then you have the parents who complain if their son has lost his pencil, and arrange a meeting to do so. I don't see anything about students losing their pencils in that article.

There would be some genuine cases, but unfortunately what'll happen is that these supposed hearings will be populated by the likes of parents who would complain if a teacher farted in class! Ultimately, a waste of taxpayers money. Far cheaper to set up stocks in the town square :P

amacca

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Thoughts?

If it becomes a common thing then:

More time dedicated to endless paper trails/record keeping which achieve nothing except hopefully covering my ass + a loss of goodwill from me towards a system which increasingly imo has no respect for me and insists on letting the tail wag the dog.

and as a consequence my case less time spent on voluntary activities (extra classes supervising extra curricular etc) compensating for all the ridiculous bureaucratic nonsense which has replaced common sense so as to give myself something of a life during the school year.

byhookorbycrook

Will there be public hearings for parents not fit to parent too?? Or politicians not fit to be ministers??

Muff Richardson

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Thoughts?

Yep, the minister is an utter c*nt.

jimboblep

Muff Richardson wrote: »

Yep, the minister is a utter c*nt.

Kind of hard to figure out what criteria you could use to define a poor teacher
I always thought using final grades was unfair as it would have too many variables.
But in saying that i do think some kind of performance based analysis is needed.

byhookorbycrook

Performance based? How do you judge this? Which is better -the teacher who has a middle class ,interested parents and pupils class that get average of B grades in the Leaving or the teacher in a DEIS school who gets the pupils to sit the Leaving at all??

jimboblep

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Performance based? How do you judge this? Which is better -the teacher who has a middle class ,interested parents and pupils class that get average of B grades in the Leaving or the teacher in a DEIS school who gets the pupils to sit the Leaving at all??

Well what do you suggest

FunLover18

These people are educating our children surely it's only right that there should be a standard?

Moody_mona

A doctor isn't bad if they can't cure a patient despite doing everything they can, and I think that's the comparison, teachers can give their all but students might not bother, might not be academic, etc.

I do think there should be a standard that should be met, whether that's assessing plans, ensuring curriculum is covered, ensuring learning objectives are assessed regularly, but to be honest I really don't know if any of that would work?

Peter Flynt

FunLover18 wrote: »

These people are educating our children surely it's only right that there should be a standard?

There is . . . It's determined when they do their teaching practice.

They are then assigned a grade based on the quality of their teaching.

As their teaching career progresses (if it progresses) they are then subject to further reviews from the inspectorate, Principals, etc. . . A bad review could see a non permanent teacher lose their jobs.

It's all about keeping the teacher in a constant state of fear - fear of management, the inspectorate, unhappy parents, etc. . . - whilst constantly cutting their wages and eroding away their terms and conditions of employment.

byhookorbycrook

Is that not what incidental inspections and WSEs are for?

jimboblep

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There is . . . It's determined when they do their teaching practice.

They are then assigned a grade based on the quality of their teaching.

As their teaching career progresses (if it progresses) they are then subject to further reviews from the inspectorate, Principals, etc. . . A bad review could see a non permanent teacher lose their jobs.

It's all about keeping the teacher in a constant state of fear - fear of management, the inspectorate, unhappy parents, etc. . . - whilst constantly cutting their wages and eroding away their terms and conditions of employment.

Dont mean to sound flippant but thats just like everyone else

Peter Flynt

Any parent complaining about me and I'll turn up at whatever event and just point to my First Class honours H.Dip with A grade in Teaching Practice

With all the cuts (another 1769 pay cut this week) . . . I couldn't care less

deisedevil

Peter Flynt wrote: »

A bad review could see a non permanent teacher lose their jobs.

What about the permanent teachers? It's about time they were judged on their performance.

The teachers who are making an effort and are good at what they do aren't worrying about performance reviews.

evolving_doors

This is all just a sack of pandering to the rabble shte. Although itll all have to come under some type of goal setting/afl/outcomes/key skills/objectives met metric... Basically well do continuous assessment on our pupils...grades will be submitted...
1. If they dont fit the curve theyll be sent back or youll be sanctioned...
2. If pupils dont meet their key objectives then action will be taken

Upshot...here comes the paperwork and cover your ass train... Those who refuse to play the game will find themselves in the tribunal...

Peter Flynt

deisedevil wrote: »

The teachers who are making an effort and are good at what they do aren't worrying about performance reviews.

You'd think that wouldn't you?

I had an experience earlier this year of a parent approaching a Principal and calling me a bully for enquiring as to why there was no homework presented by their little darling.

FunLover18

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There is . . . It's determined when they do their teaching practice.

They are then assigned a grade based on the quality of their teaching.

As their teaching career progresses (if it progresses) they are then subject to further reviews from the inspectorate, Principals, etc. . . A bad review could see a non permanent teacher lose their jobs.

It's all about keeping the teacher in a constant state of fear - fear of management, the inspectorate, unhappy parents, etc. . . - whilst constantly cutting their wages and eroding away their terms and conditions of employment.

How is quality assessed? Is it by the progress of students and what curriculum they're covering etc? I genuinely don't know. I would imagine it's difficult to rate a teacher in this regard because as someone mentioned earlier it does depend on the students. These hearings would be divided into 2 categories; fitness to teach and professional misconduct, I don't know exactly where the line is drawn but when I think of a teacher being 'unfit to teach' I usually think of their attitude and behaviour towards the kids. I think we've all encountered teachers who bully their students (misconduct?) or even get bullied by their students (unfit?). I know people who teach and some of the stories I hear are appalling but have very little to do with the teaching of curriculum.

An Bradán Feasa

FunLover18 wrote: »

or even get bullied by their students (unfit?)

A teacher being bullied by her student does not make her unfit to teach. It makes the student a bully.

spurious

An Bradán Feasa wrote: »

A teacher being bullied by her student does not make her unfit to teach. It makes the student a bully.

Let's have a public shaming of parents of bullies. We can all wear our uniforms or not.

Peter Flynt

An Bradán Feasa wrote: »

A teacher being bullied by her student does not make her unfit to teach. It makes the student a bully.

The blame/responsibilty is never directed at the student though......In the eyes of many others [management, parents, etc. . ] it's all the fault of the teacher for failure to control the pupil - even though the pupil may even have told the teacher to F Off.

spurious

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The blame/responsibilty is never directed at the student though......In the eyes of many others [management, parents, etc. . ] it's all the fault of the teacher for failure to control the pupil - even though the pupil may even have told the teacher to F Off.

This is true. I have had colleagues from other schools in our ETB in touch saying that when they try to get their Principals to do something about a student who is causing havoc across the board, they are told 'maybe you need some Classroom Management help'.

Never in my career did I come across a case where a student was put out of school and did not wriggle back in on appeal, regardless of how extreme/violent/criminal their behaviour was.

2011abc

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The blame/responsibilty is never directed at the student though......In the eyes of many others [management, parents, etc. . ] it's all the fault of the teacher for failure to control the pupil - even though the pupil may even have told the teacher to F Off.

...and told the principal to F Off....But s/he wont be let go /forced into early retirement-just the poor classroom teacher .

losullivan

deisedevil wrote: »

What about the permanent teachers? It's about time they were judged on their performance.


The teachers who are making an effort and are good at what they do aren't worrying about performance reviews.

Not true. The teachers who care the most are probably the most worried and worn out with the constant attacks spearheaded by an architect who has zero experience of teaching. Recent data released in the U.K. has shown that 40% of the teaching graduates there leave the profession within 5 years due to burn out. We are heading in the same direction here.
Permanent teachers and non-permanent teachers alike are constantly judged by students,parents, management,whole school inspections, subject inspections,'drive-by inspections'- whereby a teacher is literally given a moment's notice of inspection, OECD reports, state exam results etc etc. I love teaching but I hate what our Labour Minister is doing to our profession.

FunLover18

An Bradán Feasa wrote: »

A teacher being bullied by her student does not make her unfit to teach. It makes the student a bully.

I agree somewhat hence the question mark. But there are cases (there was one in my own school) where the teacher is also lacking in confidence and authority. I'm not saying teachers who get bullied are to blame or that they are bad teachers but I think when a teacher allows him/herself to be put down by a one or a class of 14 year olds (in the particular instance I know of the teacher would run from the room crying) there does have to be some questioning of his/her fitness.

Whether or not public hearings are a good idea in these circumstances however ... I'm not nearly qualified enough to say

marienbad

I don't agree with public hearings but some form of transparent accountability and measurement has to be introduced.

And the disciplining and removal of unfit teachers should be no more or no less difficult than any other job.

endakenny

spurious wrote: »

This is true. I have had colleagues from other schools in our ETB in touch saying that when they try to get their Principals to do something about a student who is causing havoc across the board, they are told 'maybe you need some Classroom Management help'.

Never in my career did I come across a case where a student was put out of school and did not wriggle back in on appeal, regardless of how extreme/violent/criminal their behaviour was.

Having read about the issue of discipline on this forum and politics.ie, it appears to me that the failure of principals and deputy principals to support their staff in cases of pupil discipline is more serious in ETB (formerly VEC) secondary schools than in voluntary secondary schools (VSSs), which have a better reputation because of the heritage that they inherited from their former religious superiors. I have been informed by some members of staff at my alma mater, which is a VSS, that it has been successful in its effort to expel some disruptive pupils, including for possession of illegal drugs.

Kristopherus

Well,well,well what next? Public floggings?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Peter Flynt

marienbad wrote: »

I don't agree with public hearings but some form of transparent accountability and measurement has to be introduced.

And the disciplining and removal of unfit teachers should be no more or no less difficult than any other job.

Accountability is there - Teachers are sacked/retain their jobs every year. They're all non permanent of course. . . but they baying mob always state "yea but what about the permanent teachers".

Well a teacher, on average, has to wait 8 years to become permanent. Indeed over the past 5 years or so permanent jobs have been phased out to be replaced with "Contracts of Indefinite Duration" to the point where permanency is becoming a thing of the past.

The point I'm making is that for all these years of complete insecurity in their profession they are scrutinised and assessed by school managements, external inspectors and boards of management.

People who state what you've just stated just don't know what they're talking about.

DK man

I used to encourage my students who expressed an interest in teaching - now I do the opposite and tell them to think long and hard before putting themselves through the 5-10 of being messed about by the system and the school management before they have any chance of decent work....

marienbad

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Accountability is there - Teachers are sacked/retain their jobs every year. They're all non permanent of course. . . but they baying mob always state "yea but what about the permanent teachers".

Well a teacher, on average, has to wait 8 years to become permanent. Indeed over the past 5 years or so permanent jobs have been phased out to be replaced with "Contracts of Indefinite Duration" to the point where permanency is becoming a thing of the past.

The point I'm making is that for all these years of complete insecurity in their profession they are scrutinised and assessed by school managements, external inspectors and boards of management.

People who state what you've just stated just don't know what they're talking about.

Why don't I know what I am talking about ? Because I may not be in agreement with you ?

I could equally say you are too close to the issue and have lost any objectivity.

So much so that you can't see the reasoning behind the situation outlined in your own post,i.e-the solution to not being able to
measure/discipline/remove permanent teachers is to make in harder/impossible to become permanent.

Again like a lot of areas in Irish society it is the younger newly trained that are victimised at the expense of the older entrenched generation.

Peter Flynt

marienbad wrote: »

Why don't I know what I am talking about ? Because I may not be in agreement with you ?

I could equally say you are too close to the issue and have lost any objectivity.

So much so that you can't see the reasoning behind the situation outlined in your own post,i.e-the solution to not being able to
measure/discipline/remove permanent teachers is to make in harder/impossible to become permanent.

Again like a lot of areas in Irish society it is the younger newly trained that are victimised at the expense of the older entrenched generation.

You don't what you're talking about because you're calling for something that's already there (accountability).

As far back as 2004 I know of a Principal who dismissed 7 teachers and replaced them with other teachers the following September. These teachers were, in effect, sacked - many of whom were quite good at their jobs but, for one reason or another, the Principal did not see them playing any further role in that school.

Permanency basically does not occur anymore whereas in most other jobs outside the public service permanency is usually offered after a six month probation. Besides only nurses are respected more than teachers.

The "older entrenched" generations of teachers are, quite frankly, better teacher in general because of their experience.

All this is about a politician using the public's lack of knowledge about the system to give the impression that he's some sort of tough guy . . sorting out the bad teachers.

It's all nonsense with smoke/mirrors being used to screen out the ongoing scandals occurring at present.

marienbad

Peter Flynt wrote: »

You don't what you're talking about because you're calling for something that's already there (accountability).

As far back as 2004 I know of a Principal who dismissed 7 teachers and replaced them with other teachers the following September. These teachers were, in effect, sacked - many of whom were quite good at their jobs but, for one reason or another, the Principal did not see them playing any further role in that school.

Permanency basically does not occur anymore whereas in most other jobs outside the public service permanency is usually offered after a six month probation. Besides only nurses are respected more than teachers.

The "older entrenched" generations of teachers are, quite frankly, better teacher in general because of their experience.

All this is about a politician using the public's lack of knowledge about the system to give the impression that he's some sort of tough guy . . sorting out the bad teachers.

It's all nonsense with smoke/mirrors being used to screen out the ongoing scandals occurring at present.

Your definition of accountability (and measurement)and mine would appear to differ. And the older teachers are not necessarily better teachers , nor are they necessarily worse. But the system as is, works to protect their position irregardless.

This is a fundamental problem in Irish society where in general the young are being victimised to the benefit of the older.We see it with old age pensioners , older teachers, even recently with the ESB threatening strike on pensions rights that the younger members cannot even join.

But the problem with these discussions is that they are so adversarial that neither side has enough confidence to admit where they are wrong.

You know and I know that there are teachers who have lost the will to live never mind teach but you can't admit it in case the house of cards falls down.

In full disclosure - I would be one of the older brigade.

As an aside has there ever been a minister that you were happy with ?

Peter Flynt

marienbad wrote: »

Your definition of accountability (and measurement)and mine would appear to differ. And the older teachers are not necessarily better teachers , nor are they necessarily worse. But the system as is, works to protect their position irregardless.

This is a fundamental problem in Irish society where in general the young are being victimised to the benefit of the older.We see it with old age pensioners , older teachers, even recently with the ESB threatening strike on pensions rights that the younger members cannot even join.

But the problem with these discussions is that they are so adversarial that neither side has enough confidence to admit where they are wrong.

You know and I know that there are teachers who have lost the will to live never mind teach but you can't admit it in case the house of cards falls down.

In full disclosure - I would be one of the older brigade.

As an aside has there ever been a minister that you were happy with ?

Older teachers weren't born old - they joined young and went through the system.

The fact that this is not a country for the young is no news to anyone. . . Just look at the cowardly way that FG/Labour cut the youth unemployment to 100 euro a week whilst forcing them onto scams like Job-Bridge. . . All Whilst the OAP rate of 230 per week has been protected. .

Older teachers are not necessarily better but they've been judged for years whilst non permanent . . and they've retained their jobs. Teaching is a profession in which experience counts for a lot.

As regards "measurement" - What's that? How is it measured that someone is a good/bad teacher? - By survey? - How do you compare a teacher teaching in Blackrock [with facilities to actually teach] with a teacher in, say, Ballymun? Comprehensive?

marienbad

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Older teachers weren't born old - they joined young and went through the system.

The fact that this is not a country for the young is no news to anyone. . . Just look at the cowardly way that FG/Labour cut the youth unemployment to 100 euro a week whilst forcing them onto scams like Job-Bridge. . . All Whilst the OAP rate of 230 per week has been protected. .

Older teachers are not necessarily better but they've been judged for years whilst non permanent . . and they've retained their jobs. Teaching is a profession in which experience counts for a lot.

As regards "measurement" - What's that? How is it measured that someone is a good/bad teacher? - By survey? - How do you compare a teacher teaching in Blackrock [with facilities to actually teach] with a teacher in, say, Ballymun? Comprehensive?

Saying it is not news to anyone is not an answer. The reason it is so is in large measure because of the abuse of power by older people, and I include the teachers , unions etc , in that .

I find it astonishing and saddening that in so many professions it is the what we have we hold is the mantra and always at the expense of the younger members of their own profession .

As regards measurement - if I may be so bold - and quote back at you- it is now you who doesn't know what you are talking about.

Anything can be measured. And it can be measured fairly and accurately with built in checks and balances against all variables. This is common in the wider world for decades.

I ask again can you name any minister you were satisfied with ?

the_syco

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Performance based? How do you judge this?

Hidden cameras, and check if the teacher actually teaches, or just comes in wearing sandals, reads out the first example of the chapter, and tells you to "look at the back for the answers" if you have a question. Do this by watching them over a month. A slow process, but maybe the fairest one?

jonseyblub

the_syco wrote: »

Hidden cameras, and check if the teacher actually teaches, or just comes in wearing sandals, reads out the first example of the chapter, and tells you to "look at the back for the answers" if you have a question. Do this by watching them over a month. A slow process, but maybe the fairest one?

WTF? .........Are we going to extend this to doctors in surgery, nurses, politicians or is it just for teachers? Maybe we bring the cameras into your workplace?

Peter Flynt

jonseyblub wrote: »

WTF? .........Are we going to extend this to doctors in surgery, nurses, politicians or is it just for teachers? Maybe we bring the cameras into your workplace?

Why restrict it to the workplace?

Surely cameras could be setup in the homes of teachers to enquire as to the level of work they are carrying out in preparation of their lessons?

seavill

marienbad wrote: »

Saying it is not news to anyone is not an answer. The reason it is so is in large measure because of the abuse of power by older people, and I include the teachers , unions etc , in that .

I find it astonishing and saddening that in so many professions it is the what we have we hold is the mantra and always at the expense of the younger members of their own profession .

As regards measurement - if I may be so bold - and quote back at you- it is now you who doesn't know what you are talking about.

Anything can be measured. And it can be measured fairly and accurately with built in checks and balances against all variables. This is common in the wider world for decades.

I ask again can you name any minister you were satisfied with ?

I'm not saying I disagree with you but you didn't answer to how things can be measured. You just said a long sentence that sounds like it belongs in the business world without actually offering anything

ahnowbrowncow

Peter Flynt wrote: »

You don't what you're talking about because you're calling for something that's already there (accountability).

As far back as 2004 I know of a Principal who dismissed 7 teachers and replaced them with other teachers the following September. These teachers were, in effect, sacked - many of whom were quite good at their jobs but, for one reason or another, the Principal did not see them playing any further role in that school.

Permanency basically does not occur anymore whereas in most other jobs outside the public service permanency is usually offered after a six month probation. Besides only nurses are respected more than teachers.

The "older entrenched" generations of teachers are, quite frankly, better teacher in general because of their experience.

All this is about a politician using the public's lack of knowledge about the system to give the impression that he's some sort of tough guy . . sorting out the bad teachers.

It's all nonsense with smoke/mirrors being used to screen out the ongoing scandals occurring at present.

What accountability is there for permanent teachers? There is none.

There are permanent teachers out there who have lost the will to teach properly in their last few years and are just waiting for retirement.

There are also plenty of teachers out there who got their permanent contracts despite being lazy and/or incompetent.

These people are in the minority but they exist and are not only preventing more talented people from getting jobs as teachers but they're also damaging students education.

So tell me how they're held accountability?

Peter Flynt

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

What accountability is there for permanent teachers? There is none.

They were in the system for many many years before becoming permanent.

The average length of time to become permanent is EIGHT years.

What is it in your job?

Despite a demand for their services their pay has been cut three times in 4 years separate to the rest of the workforce with an extra one month given unpaid.

Peter Flynt

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

There are permanent teachers out there who have lost the will to teach properly in there last few years and are just waiting for retirement.

I'm fast becoming one although I'm no where near retirement. . . and so are many others.

ahnowbrowncow

Peter Flynt wrote: »

They were in the system for many many years before becoming permanent.

The average length of time to become permanent is EIGHT years.

What is it in your job?

Despite a demand for their services their pay has been cut three times in 4 years separate to the rest of the workforce with an extra one month given unpaid.

You keep avoiding the question. It doesn't matter if it takes 8 years to secure your job. Where's the accountability for the 30 years after it?

Peter Flynt

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

You keep avoiding the question. It doesn't matter if it takes 8 years to secure your job. Where's the accountability for the 30 years after it?

. . . and you avoided my question of how long, on average, permanency is achieved in your job.

I'm regularly inspected by the DES . . . as part of one of the most comprehensive school inspection systems in the world.

In Finland there is no inspection system.

I couldn't give a rats arse if I lost my job as I'm getting paid F All for what I'm worth . . . But I'd be damned if I'd ever go in without giving 100% each day.

You think there's swathes of teachers out there doing nothing - you're wrong!

amacca

the_syco wrote: »

Hidden cameras, and check if the teacher actually teaches, or just comes in wearing sandals, reads out the first example of the chapter, and tells you to "look at the back for the answers" if you have a question. Do this by watching them over a month. A slow process, but maybe the fairest one?

I'd actually agree with this and have no problem…

On the understanding that pupils that continue to disobey basic rules and have to be told repeatedly over numerous classes to do something even as simple as stop talking/disrupting others etc are sanctioned effectively by whomever is viewing the videos without the teacher having to go to the ends of the earth to get something even as simple as this to happen.

And if after that they still disrupt then they have to find a new educational paradigm for themselves away from the students that are willing to work.

Maybe teachers could actually be teachers in such a system without the need to be police, nannies, psychologists etc etc

evolving_doors

marienbad wrote: »

Anything can be measured. And it can be measured fairly and accurately with built in checks and balances against all variables . This is common in the wider world for decades.

Ok its simple really, by basing the measurement on student performance

.. (I got this one)

Take one student's exam result , say 50%....

Now lets factor out the variables to make it fair to other students..

+ 2% working class address
+ 5% Dyslexia
- 10% They got grinds
- 5% Very supportive parents
+ 6% first in family to attend school
- 3% Teacher gave worksheet with examples of what would be on the test.
- 20% teacher has 20 years experience
+ 30% Student was bullied this year
- 13.5% Small Class
+ 15.6294 Student was absent for three classes
- 6.46 Teacher absent for two classes
+ 3% Substitute teacher had a go..

I can say for definite that all the variables have been accounted for here, so according to this the students effective score to which it can be compared to and added to all of the other teachers students' scores for the purposes of assessing this teachers performance is 55% (sorry forgot to deduct 1% for masters allowance (hons.)) So that makes 54%.

Now when deciding to add all the other students scores I think the median rather than the mean is obviously a better discriminator against outliers ( Like gifted students or students who just moved
From a non english speaking country etc.)

I think it's obvious that I should switch over to consultancy for the new teacher measurement agency. 100K p/a here I come...

queensinead

deisedevil wrote: »

What about the permanent teachers? It's about time they were judged on their performance.

The teachers who are making an effort and are good at what they do aren't worrying about performance reviews.

Teachers of all ages have regular performance reviews through the fairly draconian inspection system that has been extended under Quinn.

There are regular subject and unannounced individual teacher inspections at Second Level. In some cases confidential questionnaires are distributed by inspectors to students and their parents, dealing with discipline, how often homework is set and corrected, and so on.

Teachers' class and term plans are checked by inspectors, and students' homework and the correction of this homework are checked. Results of inspections can be seen on the web

This is a tighter inspection regime than many of our European neighbours.

These inspection reports are being used presumably to tackle under-performance.The Teaching Council has already issued a book of guidelines for teachers which must be followed if one wants to stay registered with the Teaching Council
And you cannot teach in an Irish school for more than three days if you are not registered with the Council

ahnowbrowncow

Peter Flynt wrote: »

. . . and you avoided my question of how long, on average, permanency is achieved in your job.

I'm regularly inspected by the DES . . . as part of one of the most comprehensive school inspection systems in the world.

In Finland there is no inspection system.

I couldn't give a rats arse if I lost my job as I'm getting paid F All for what I'm worth . . . But I'd be damned if I'd ever go in without giving 100% each day.

You think there's swathes of teachers out there doing nothing - you're wrong!

This thread isn't related to my job.

It seems like it's impossible to have an intelligent debate with you. I stated that I know the useless teachers are in the minority but yet you say this

You think there's swathes of teachers out there doing nothing - you're wrong!

Your "comprehensive school inspection system" is pretty sub standard, teachers are notified beforehand so the bad/lazy/incompetent teachers have plenty of time to get the their lesson plans up to scratch. Plus only a few teachers in a school are inspected at a time.
And what happens to the permanent teachers who do poorly during the inspection? The principal may have a word with them.

HRA21

losullivan wrote: »

Not true. The teachers who care the most are probably the most worried and worn out with the constant attacks spearheaded by an architect who has zero experience of teaching. Recent data released in the U.K. has shown that 40% of the teaching graduates there leave the profession within 5 years due to burn out. We are heading in the same direction here.
Permanent teachers and non-permanent teachers alike are constantly judged by students,parents, management,whole school inspections, subject inspections,'drive-by inspections'- whereby a teacher is literally given a moment's notice of inspection, OECD reports, state exam results etc etc. I love teaching but I hate what our Labour Minister is doing to our profession.

So why do you love teaching?

queensinead

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Your "comprehensive school inspection system" is pretty sub standard, teachers are notified beforehand so the bad/lazy/incompetent teachers have plenty of time to get the their lesson plans up to scratch. Plus only a few teachers in a school are inspected at a time.
And what happens to the permanent teachers who do poorly during the inspection? The principal may have a word with them.

Teachers are given no notice of "drive-by" inspections--these have increased greatly under Quinn

"Only a few teachers are inspected at a time". Are you willing to pay for all the extra inspectors required to inspect thoroughly all the 50 or 60 teachers in a school all at the same time? Imagine the complaints about how "the public sector pay bill" had increased!

The DES tries to use its inspectors in the most cost-effective way it can. The team of inspectors for a Whole School Evaluation will inspect subjects where that team happens to have expertise

A "drive by" inspector will inspect the teachers who have so far escaped inspection in that school, or those teachers where there were concerns and recommendations made on last inspection

A subject inspection inspects all teachers in a particular subject area, and as well as monitoring their teaching and planning, it evaluates also their team-work skills and sharing of resources