Hysterical roaring tantrums from six month old

quad_red

Hi folks,

Need advice here. We're having serious issues with our six month old (second child).

Basically, we are finding it almost impossible to have any sort of night time sleep routine. She wants to be breast fed to sleep. And wants to feed at night.

My wife is wrecked. I've tried to introduce some sort of routine the last few nights by lying in the room with her to get to her sleep. Thing is - she won't stand for it. She will scream and screech and roar and roar until my wife is at the other side of the door and can't take it. I'm in the room with her, hand on her. I pick her up every 15 mins to try and calm her and to make sure she doesn't have wind etc. Nope. She'll just roar and roar looking up at the door for mom.

If mom breaks and feeds her she'll be asleep in seconds.

She is so much more willful than her older brother. Thing is, she's not clingy of my wife during the day. And she's little interest in feeding during the day - that's reserved for the all night buffet.

So how do you console an enraged inconsolable lady but not give her what she wants?



Quad

January

She's 6 months... give her what she wants...

Chattastrophe!

That's really really sad. She's only a tiny little baby still, you can't just train her to do what you want, like she's a dog. If she needs a feed, then feed her. How could you not?!

cyning

At 6 months it's not tantrums anyway. She's hungry: lots of breastfed babies feed mostly at night and there is nothing wrong with that. If your wife needs a break (and I don't doubt that she does by the way it's exhausting) can she express and let you give the bottle? Will she take a soother? Or could you use a sling in the evenings so baby is getting the close contact but mum is still getting a break? 6 months is so young still crying is not going to help. Elizabeth Pantley's no cry sleep solution book might help a bit it's more geared towards breastfed babies, but even in that it does say night waking and feeding at that age is the "norm".

LilMrsDahamsta

My nearly one year old feeds all night every night. His big brother did the same till he was about 14 months. I find its by far the easiest way to get them to sleep and keep them sleeping. I couldn't be bothered with the extra hassle of night weaning until they decide(d) to go for it themselves. I'd actually have no idea how to put the younger one to sleep without boob.

If you really need to stop, for example if your wife is returning to night-shift working or similar, you have no choice. Otherwise my advice and experience would be to just go with whatever the baby wants for another few months. For me, the disruption just wouldn't be worth it.

quad_red

She is using my wife as a soother and it's absolutely killing my wife's boobs. Like, feeding on and off every few minutes. Which, in turn, could endanger the prospect of continuing to breast feed. (From a practical point of view cos they're killing her).

And any attempt at denying this at night, in her delirious sleepy state leads to a melt down.

Hence, what I'm trying to get across, has anyone has any experience with helping a six month old self soothe a bit more.

Lads, I'm not talking about crying out ala Gina forde. I'm in the room, I'm holding her, soothing her. Lifting her, reassuring her. And she gets really animated instantly.

Like, my wife needs a bit of independence and the option of going out for a few hours in the evening without our little one experiencing significant turmoil going to sleep.

But there has to be some in between that helps her feed more during the day. Like, at six months she isn't really eating anything. And I wonder is the fact that 90% of her feeding at night part of this.

Moonbeam

Does she have a soother? do you give her a bottle?

quad_red

Moonbeam wrote: »

Does she have a soother? do you give her a bottle?

She has a soother but that's more a hindrance than a help cos it keeps falling out.

Could be part of the problem.

She's exclusively breast fed. Only did bottles for a short period when by wife couldn't feed (cracked nips). At that time she was really anti bottles and only did them under duress (v v hungry).

To be clear - some night feeding isn't a problem. But all night and as the only way to calmly go to sleep isn't on.

iguana

Does your daughter eat solids yet? Maybe a light meal like a small yoghurt/some avocado or porridge in the evening would help? Or you could try to adjust her bedtime. Research shows that most infants have a bedtime that's much too early for their natural sleep pattern and that leads to more disturbed sleep.

I hope you find a solution, it's tiring to feed a baby all night but sometimes it really is what has to be done. I found the best thing to do was to read the actual scientific research on infant sleep, rather than read/listen to other people's anecdotes about what babies 'should' be doing. I found that once looked at my son's needs and desires from an evolutionary perspective, I adjusted my expectations and everything became easier because I wasn't feeling like I needed to fix things. Constantly feeling like you need to find a way to correct something that's gone wrong is way more exhausting than disturbed sleep. With this in mind it's worth remembering things like, your daughter isn't using your wife's breast as a soother, soothers were invented to be used as breast substitutes as many infants have an innate to suckle throughout the night, so your daughter is using your wife's breast as her mother's breast - which it is.

Supercell

Maybe try introducing the likes of aptimal during the night?
With our son, who was breast fed exclusively until he was 6 months also, we started introducing Aptimal for the nightly feeds. My wife tapered off by only breast feeding at bedtime and during the day. He wasn't so keen initially but hunger kicked in and I was able to help during the night. He was less inclined to suckle for a long time too with the bottle, i suppose it's not as comforting as the natural mums breast, but it got the job done. With the bottle too he got fuller faster as well. Might be worth trying, certainly helped us.

bp

I am all for breast feeding but also parents need a break. I breast feed until six months but expressed/ used formula for the night time bottle. I found that we would get an extra hour on the bottle.

Also could she be teething - breast milk (I was told) acts as a natural pain killer so if she has a pain that could be helping.

Secondly how does she sleep during the day? Could it be an issue with lying down flat is causing pain?

December2012

Believe me I know your missus wants a break - I have been there and been her.

But it's not really going to happen yet - the baby is not being bold, but she needs to be breastfed that way. So you either change the way you feed her, and introduce expressed milk or formula; or you change your day around.

So you guys decide what's important.

If your wife, very understandably, wants to get away from the house and the kids but can only do it when you're home, you should see if you can work around this so she gets time to herself during the day instead - can somebody babysit for her so she can go to the gym, do shopping or whatever it is she wants to do in the evening?

Can you do more at home to help out, or would doing something practical like batch cooking or hiring a cleaner help?

If she wants to work out / lost baby weight she should look into post natal yoga / Pilates or baby boot camps so she can work out and bring the baby with her.

Or look at gyms with drop on crèches.

She should get professional advice on the breast pain - while a sensation is normal it should not hurt.

I was stuck like your wife to the bed when my daughter nursed to sleep. I made my peace with it - this was my life now and it wasn't forever. I accepted I would never have the same pre pregnancy freedom for my evenings. I used to sleepy self at the same time - it's a sign you need rest after all.

Your wife should look at support groups online and in real life for breast feeding moms - they are great for help and understanding and making friends.

pwurple

Feed if she is hungry, but if it is just comfort... Maybe try different shapes of soother. Cherry, flat, nipple, there are loads of different ones. Cherry ones were the ones my daughter preferred. Other shapes would fall out or get spat out.

yellow hen

Hi op,

I sympathise with your wife. As someone else here says, breastfeeding is a lovely, bonding and beneficial thing to do but it doesn't always work for everyone.

She's 6 months so you could try introducing some light solids, particularly late in the evening as a full tummy might help her sleep. Keep gently persevering with the bottle also.

My son didn't really take a dodie either. He'd take it and then spit it out and that cycle would go on for ages. Now at 10 months, he loves it. We persevered with it and it gives such relief now, to all of us! Try some of the dodies with a wider bridge across the face as they don't fall out as easy as the avent ones for example.

After that all you can do is help out as much as you can. The unecessary chores can wait.. Just do the bare minimum and save your energy for the little one. I hope it improves soon.

cyning

To get her feeding more during day is it possible for your wife to go to a quiet room no distractions and that might help. As babs gets established on solids that might help too? Baby is tanking up at night to get through the day: reverse cycling. Pain in the neck that it is! It might not be that easy if you have another small one at home too.

I'd worry about the pain too: makes me wonder about babies latch? Even at this stage that could be causing problems. If it's teething even using teetha or something before feeds might help?

If baby won't take a bottle (mine wouldn't!) try a sippy cup: I used a tommee tippee one from four months on with expressed milk. To be honest at that stage I tried formula too but it didn't help baby sleep anymore so the expressed milk might be better if it's an option. And it would give your wife a break.

liliq

I'd second exactly what iguana says.
It's tough having a baby, but a parents expectations can make it easier or harder on the parent.
Even the 'self soothe' term is gina forde-esque.

I realise you're not expecting your baby to not feed at all during the night.
Has she always fed a lot at night, or is it occurring more recently?
There's a lot of developmental stuff going on at around that age, and it can really affect sleeping and feeding.
Baby is just too busy learning during the day and catches up at night.
The suggestions of a quiet, dim room could be really helpful for increasing feeds during the day which may or may not help night feeding.

If you're wife is in pain from the constant night feeding, baby's latch may be a little off. Working on latch during the day can mean baby starts automatically latching better at night.
I also found that baby teething left me in quite a lot of pain. The increase acid in babies saliva is meant to help break down the gum tissue, it's not surprising that tissue eating acid will leave nipple stinging a lot too. I went back to using multi mam compresses at this stage. Even during the day, if she's not getting a long enough stretch to use them at night.
Also a lot of women find that Breastfeeding can be anything from uncomfortable to painful in the time before their menstrual cycle returns.

A 'real life' support group is the key suggestion, really.
It's one thing some randomers on boards telling you that your babies behaviour is totally normal and you're both doing everything right, but meeting parents (dads are welcome at the vast majority of meetings too if you wanted to come along) who have been there and come out the other side with intact babies/ sanity, will make a huge difference.
That's assuming your wife hasn't attended them already though

quad_red

Thanks for the responses.

We've been offering her all kinds of foods and often but she's not really taking anything in (baby led weaning which worked really well with number one).

We has issues early on but my wife and the lactation consultant are happy with the latch now. Baby feeds on demand during the day. Is healthy, happy and very stimulated by her older brother.

Re the night time situation - she isn't actually feeding most of the time. She just wants to be nursed back to sleep. If my wife doesn't get to her fast enough she roars the place down. So she's in the bed most of the time now. And she definitely wants to be nursed to sleep at the start of the night.

Now this definitely won't be possible all the time in a few weeks time. Full stop.

So I guess I was asking was there any advice re how to help a six month old self soothe a bit more. The answer is a resounding no.

It'll be our second child breast feeding and my wife attends a breast feeding group and had friends with breast feeding kids. Just none of them are so trigger happy with distress if the boob isn't produced instantly.

Thanks for the advice.
Quad

liliq

If its any consolation, my son was the exact same for quite a while, with regard to getting very worked up if boob wasn't instantly in his face when he woke up!
He still fed to sleep until quite recently, and he's well over 2 now. Still feeds through the night too.
He's my first so I guess I didn't have anything to compare him to until I started going to support groups, but a combination of some others having similar experiences and just accepting that he's not going to sleep a full night until he's at least 3 at this stage has me less stressed even if not less tired.

How Strange

I read this thread and feel I have to reply to the op.

I feel your wife's pain, I really do, as our daughter who is also our second nearly broke my spirit with her constant night wakings. I'm also breastfeeding and while I don't want to stop and I don't think (and I now know because I tried it) formula isn't the answer. Nor is more solid food.

I think your intentions are good but you're doing the wrong things for the right reasons.

I recently bought Elizabeth Pantleys No Cry Sleep Solution and I've been trying to change a few things with my daughter. We've had some small victories like feeding 3 times a night instead of 6-7. Those little changes have made such a difference to me.

She deals with changing the feed to sleep associations. She breastfed and coslept so she isn't suggesting anything harsh or distressing for the baby or parents.

I'd really suggest you check out that book because you all sound like our family 2 months ago.

December2012

There is a feeding spurt at 6 months and the baby may be feeling more out of sorts than usual - like your wife may have got when she was at different hormonal stages during pregnancy.

So it's very possible that it may pass by its own in a week or so.

Make sure as well that baby is well dosed on Calpol if teething

wolfpawnat

iguana wrote: »

Does your daughter eat solids yet? Maybe a light meal like a small yoghurt/some avocado or porridge in the evening would help? Or you could try to adjust her bedtime. Research shows that most infants have a bedtime that's much too early for their natural sleep pattern and that leads to more disturbed sleep.

Putting my lady on a bit of food before bed has saved us from having to stop bfing. Also what is too early a bed time? She goes off naturally at 8 and up again about 6-7 then back for another snooze.

OP, you said you and your wife prefer to baby led wean, and of course, that is great if it suits, but my two were so different, all of the stuff that worked for my son was useless for my daughter, can you rejig anything to see if it changes?

I hope it settles for you soon, at that age they are too young to really tantrum, but I completely understand your wife's need to get some comfort, sore breasts are horrible!

wmpdd3

I completely empathise with your wife OP, I remember answering every cry during the night with, jez, you couldn't be hungry again!!!!

For me it came to a head around 4 months, I went for the bottle of aptamil at 11pm, that sent him off and after that I only fed 2 or 3 time between then and 9am.

He had no interest in the dummy either.

I also co-slept up until 6 months, after that he was more comfortable in his cot.

1st child was totally different, chalk and cheese.

Jeekers

She is a v hungry baby. I have been through it with two. I got a rocking chair and started bottle feeding while rocking baby to sleep. Plus a soother. I recommend feeding her a bottle before she goes to bed. It really does work. Unfortunately no child is the same and they don't come with a manual. I wish you all the best.