What does a suspended sentence actually mean?

HIB

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/men-who-beat-taxi-driver-over-26-fare-avoid-jail-29947575.html

Two young guys beat up a taxi driver. Kick him around the head, steal his wallet and leave him unconscious on the ground.
In court, a number of character witnesses come forward to testify that this act was out of character for the accused.
Suspended sentences handed down. No jail time.

So, what happens to them? Do they have to report weekly to the guards or something? Are they refused a passport? Any concrete real element to this punishment? They did have to pay compensation, but the amounts seem pretty puny when compared to the injury caused, I think.

Santa Cruz

They got away with it. Maybe if they are caught for something else the sentence would be reactivated but that is a big if.

Stojkovic

First conviction.
Sure they're allowed at least 85 convictions.

Eutow

HIB wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/men-who-beat-taxi-driver-over-26-fare-avoid-jail-29947575.html

Two young guys beat up a taxi driver. Kick him around the head, steal his wallet and leave him unconscious on the ground.
In court, a number of character witnesses come forward to testify that this act was out of character for the accused.
Suspended sentences handed down. No jail time.

So, what happens to them? Do they have to report weekly to the guards or something? Are they refused a passport? Any concrete real element to this punishment? They did have to pay compensation, but the amounts seem pretty puny when compared to the injury caused, I think.

Free to do the same thing again to somebody else. Their mother and the local parish priest more than likely said they were good kids who wouldn't hurt a fly. The usual cr@p.

ScumLord

HIB wrote: »

So, what happens to them? Do they have to report weekly to the guards or something? Are they refused a passport? Any concrete real element to this punishment? They did have to pay compensation, but the amounts seem pretty puny when compared to the injury caused, I think.

You don't have to sign in with the guards. It seems these days all the courts want is money and the fine is based on how much they think they can get out of you rather than a punishment.

mikom

HIB wrote: »

Two young guys beat up a taxi driver. Kick him around the head, steal his wallet and leave him unconscious on the ground.
Suspended sentences handed down. No jail time.
What does a suspended sentence actually mean?

They'll be in a taxi again, probably tonight, and possibly with someone you know driving it.

Meanwhile a garlic smuggler is probably warming the cell that these two violent animals should be residing in.

My name is URL

HIB wrote: »

What does a suspended sentence actually mean?

That there aren't enough prison spaces.

We really need to heavily invest in a few new prisons, otherwise we're in no position to complain about suspended sentences.

Outkast_IRE

Must be depressing to be a Garda put in a good amount of work into cases only for **** verdicts like this to be passed down.

And people question why I am a proponent of the 3 strikes system (with regards to violent crimes)

oldyouth

My name is URL wrote: »

That there aren't enough prison spaces.

We really need to heavily invest in a few new prisons, otherwise we're in no position to complain about suspended sentences.

No, we need to make prison unbearable, even if you only are in there for a month. Double up the cells and put a 'Bubba' in there with every new inmate.

Civil rights my hole

Amirani

oldyouth wrote: »

No, we need to make prison unbearable, even if you only are in there for a month. Double up the cells and put a 'Bubba' in there with every new inmate.

Civil rights my hole

You're in favour of putting people who are spending a month in prison (obviously something minor) in a position where they're likely to be raped or beaten?

What is wrong with you?

Penny Tration

oldyouth wrote: »

No, we need to make prison unbearable, even if you only are in there for a month. Double up the cells and put a 'Bubba' in there with every new inmate.

Civil rights my hole

Yeah because rape is a fair and just punishment. Ffs.

Nodin

oldyouth wrote: »

No, we need to make prison unbearable, even if you only are in there for a month. Double up the cells and put a 'Bubba' in there with every new inmate.

Civil rights my hole

People did that for a few hundred years and it didn't work. Neither did torture, maiming, transportation and death by various gruesome methods.

HIB

Eutow wrote: »

Their mother and the local parish priest more than likely said they were good kids who wouldn't hurt a fly. The usual cr@p.

Paul Curran, the Dublin footballer apparently acted as a character witness for one of them. He apparently comes from a "respectable family", whatever that means, and he was drunk.

It doesn't actually mention any character witnesses specific to the other guy actually. But, he's hoping to get a job as an apprentice carpenter. He's 20 now , and the assault took place nearly two years ago, so he was 18 at the time. What's he been doing with the past two years I wonder?

Dubwat

from the Indo article:

The court heard that Mr MacEoin has also lost €18,000 in earnings since the assault and is now nervous working the taxi at night. His relationship with his children has suffered because he didn't want to talk about what happened to him.

Judge Ring ordered Daly to pay €2,000 in compensation to the victim over the next year. Daly previously paid €5,000 over as a token of his remorse. The judge ordered Murphy, who is unemployed, to pay another €500 on top of €1,500 he has already paid.

Can the taxi driver take a civil case against the two 'gentlemen' for the missing €11,000?

murpho999

oldyouth wrote: »

No, we need to make prison unbearable, even if you only are in there for a month. Double up the cells and put a 'Bubba' in there with every new inmate.

Civil rights my hole

Yes, of course, sure when prisons were unbearable they were empty weren' they? Totally prevented crime.

Whole justice system needs to change.

As does as our education and social system, long term goals to eliminate the skanger classes that constantly get into trouble.

We need a more just, socially inclusive society to prevent this happening, not just locking people up as it does not solve anything but make criminals harder.

anncoates

The sentence is suspended for a set time and if they reoffend within that time, it's (supposedly) actually imposed.

HIB

NiallSparky wrote: »

You're in favour of putting people who are spending a month in prison (obviously something minor) in a position where they're likely to be raped or beaten?

What is wrong with you?

I'm inclined to agree that this is a bit extreme!
However, there should be some punishment. The victim must feel appalled by this. A suspended sentence should mean something ...

One idea:

Community service of 8 hours a week (i.e. every Saturday) for the duration of the sentence. The guy wants to be a carpenter..... send him into the army workshops every Sat. If he doesn't show, or they're unhappy with his effort, the remainder of the sentence is served in gaol.

anncoates

"Sarah Jane O’Callaghan BL, defending Daly, said he co-operated with gardai and helped them retrieve the stolen wallet with all the cash. She handed in a number of “glowing” testimonials including one from former Dublin footballer Paul Curran."

LOL

Twiki

Will they still have a criminal record or will that be wiped if they stay out of trouble for the three years?

HIB

anncoates wrote: »

"Sarah Jane O’Callaghan BL, defending Daly, said he co-operated with gardai and helped them retrieve the stolen wallet with all the cash. She handed in a number of “glowing” testimonials including one from former Dublin footballer Paul Curran."

LOL

I know!:rolleyes:

Helped them retrieve...... "Oh wait, here it is, in my back pocket. Let me just wipe the blood of it there for you."

Pro Hoc Vice

Twiki wrote: »

Will they still have a criminal record or will that be wiped if they stay out of trouble for the three years?

They will remain with a conviction for life, unless the spent convictions bill becomes law.

anncoates

HIB wrote: »

I know!:rolleyes:

Helped them retrieve...... "Oh wait, here it is, in my back pocket. Let me just wipe the blood of it there for you."

"Well yes judge, i understand that he kicked a man's teeth out in an unprovoked attack and robbed him but it was a misunderstanding as he likes the same sport as me and I'm famous so he's a grand lad really".

anncoates

Twiki wrote: »

Will they still have a criminal record or will that be wiped if they stay out of trouble for the three years?

Any conviction is a record.

mikom

anncoates wrote: »

"Sarah Jane O’Callaghan BL, defending Daly, said he co-operated with gardai and helped them retrieve the stolen wallet with all the cash. She handed in a number of “glowing” testimonials including one from former Dublin footballer Paul Curran."

LOL

Should have had a Cork player on the prosecution side roaring over "He's not a good boy, he's a gowl".

Renegade Mechanic

green_screen wrote: »

Yeah because rape is a fair and just punishment. Ffs.

Depends on the crime. No tv license? Oh ho ho ho bend over, buddy..

oldyouth

NiallSparky wrote: »

You're in favour of putting people who are spending a month in prison (obviously something minor) in a position where they're likely to be raped or beaten?

What is wrong with you?

Perhaps my example was a bit extreme, anger brought on by countless examples of watching skangers getting away with ruining people's lives. Not everyone can recover mentally from getting a hiding, yet the perpetrators know that if their actions ever see a courtroom, they will be out in time for tea. I have been present in court too many times watching total bullies run rings around a system that they know better than the solicitors

If prison was a proper deterrent, then perhaps many crimes would not be committed

No Pants

HIB wrote: »

Paul Curran, the Dublin footballer apparently acted as a character witness for one of them.

I don't understand how these are in any way relevant. Unless Curran was involved in some way.

anncoates

No Pants wrote: »

I don't understand how these are in any way relevant. Unless Curran was involved in some way.

Lad will probably get a trial with a top club based on his committed and physical man marking.

Nino Brown

Nodin wrote: »

People did that for a few hundred years and it didn't work. Neither did torture, maiming, transportation and death by various gruesome methods.

Well letting people away with it doesn't work either. And I think maiming worked pretty well, if you cut somebody's arm off it makes a lot of crimes pretty tricky. I'm pretty sure killing people also stopped them from committing crimes.
People say prison doesn't work, but it does, if a thief is locked up for 10 years, that's 10 years he's not robbing somebody, sound effective to me.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

That there aren't enough prison spaces.

We really need to heavily invest in a few new prisons, otherwise we're in no position to complain about suspended sentences.

What we need is to stop jailing people for sh!te like tv licences or debts

Nino Brown

bluewolf wrote: »

What we need is to stop jailing people for sh!te like tv licences or debts

I agree, but there has to be a deterrent to not paying your debts too, they should just take what you owe out of SW payments, or direct from salary, plus a fine, and keep prison empty for the scumbags.

keeponhurling

would they have to commit a similar crime, or of similar severity, for it to he reactivated?

Or if they don't pay their TV license they do these few years on time ?

My name is URL

oldyouth wrote: »

If prison was a proper deterrent, then perhaps many crimes would not be committed

There still wouldn't be enough space, though.

And what do you mean by 'proper deterrent'? There's only so far you can go with that before you end up facing sanctions for human rights abuses from the EU and UN. That's not some liberal bull**** either.. the EU in particular will not tolerate obvious and systemic violations by member states.

Would it really be worth being heavily fined or even booted out of the EU, just so prisoners could be treated less humanely?

Nino Brown

keeponhurling wrote: »

would they have to commit a similar crime, or of similar severity, for it to he reactivated?

Or if they don't pay their TV license they do these few years on time ?

Usually similar severity, and sometimes not even then, I've heard of people who were in court after they got a suspended more than once and didn't get locked up.

Radiosonde

Hearing that the convicted comes from a "respectable family" always makes me want to vomit. It's just code for "better class of person" (therefore should get more lenient treatment than the knackery types.)

"Good character" is also a bizarre one with violent offences.

Pro Hoc Vice

keeponhurling wrote: »

would they have to commit a similar crime, or of similar severity, for it to he reactivated?

Or if they don't pay their TV license they do these few years on time ?

If during the period of suspension, the person is convicted of any crime, that court must send the person back to the the first court, to decide if the sentence will be activated, once that court decides then the second matter goes back to the second court to decide on sentence on the second issue.

Galway K9

we need the three strike rule as in US, three convictions and your banged up for 25 years.
Labour for each person to pay off the prison costs.

keeponhurling

Radiosonde wrote: »

"Good character" is also a bizarre one with violent offences.

It's really irrelevant waffle, as by definition if you are guilty of crime you are not a good character.
Especially the crime mentioned in the OP

Nino Brown

infosys wrote: »

If during the period of suspension, the person is convicted of any crime, that court must send the person back to the the first court, to decide if the sentence will be activated, once that court decides then the second matter goes back to the second court to decide on sentence on the second issue.

And if the period of the suspension lapses in that time, do they get away with it?

Pro Hoc Vice

Galway K9 wrote: »

we need the three strike rule as in US, three convictions and your banged up for 25 years.
Labour for each person to pay off the prison costs.

Such views in the USA has led to over 2 million prisoners, the largest in the world, many prisoners work for a tiny payment, and allows some companies compete with low wage economies. Most prisoners are African American and Hispanic, leading to the claim that its a new slavery.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-united-states-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289

Pro Hoc Vice

Nino Brown wrote: »

And if the period of the suspension lapses in that time, do they get away with it?

If they are not convicted again during the period of suspension then they will be sentenced in relation to the second matter. The first matter as the period of suspension is over will be in the past, but a judge can of course take the previous conviction into account for sentencing.

No Pants

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

No tv license? Oh ho ho ho bend over, buddy..

No one gets jailed for not having a TV licence.

xxmeabhxx

I really dislike the whole "character witness" nonsense! If a person has committed a violent crime then the fact that there's a couple of people who think they're great should be totally irrelevant. If a man kicks a taxi driver in the head and steals from him then he has committed that crime and coming from a "good family" and wanting to be a carpenter shouldn't change that! If there is any hope for these two scumbags then I think the shock of prison is more likely to get them on track then letting them get away with it.

weldoninhio

infosys wrote: »

Such views in the USA has led to over 2 million prisoners, the largest in the world, many prisoners work for a tiny payment, and allows some companies compete with low wage economies. Most prisoners are African American and Hispanic, leading to the claim that its a new slavery.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-united-states-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289

"The War on Drugs" has more to do with the numbers in jail than the 3 strikes rule. People caught with very little drugs being jailed as long as murderers in some states is ridiculous.

kult

No Pants wrote: »

No one gets jailed for not having a TV licence.

2 of my friends got 3 months for not having tv license, but papers and media keep quiet...

MonaPizza

NiallSparky wrote: »

You're in favour of putting people who are spending a month in prison (obviously something minor) in a position where they're likely to be raped or beaten?

What is wrong with you?

I've never understood the fetish towards anal rape that some people seem to have. They're obsessed with it. Bizarre.

mikom

No Pants wrote: »

No one gets jailed for not having a TV licence.

They should be given an award, if anything.

Galway K9 wrote: »

we need the three strike rule as in US, three convictions and your banged up for 25 years.

Three strikes could see someone getting a long sentence for stealing three separate packets of custard cream biscuits.
It's a bit much.

kult

To avoid a tv license payment: an inspector asks you if you have TV license, you just say I DO NOT NEED A TV LICENSE, if he asks again say the same...you do not say yes or no, based on information you give: I do not need a tv license - the inspector cannot take any action against you. I haven't paid a tv license in 11 years now. Once the inspector came in with Gardai, I asked them if I am being arrested, did I commit a crime, or what? If not then they can go home and stop wasting tax payers money. Also you are not obligated to talk to the inspector. All my friends are doing it now and none of them pays anything to those hyenas...

oldyouth

kult wrote: »

2 of my friends got 3 months for not having tv license, but papers and media keep quiet...

Or did they get sentenced for not paying the fine for not having a TV licence?

Nino Brown

kult wrote: »

To avoid a tv license payment: an inspector asks you if you have TV license, you just say I DO NOT NEED A TV LICENSE, if he asks again say the same...you do not say yes or no, based on information you give: I do not need a tv license - the inspector cannot take any action against you. I haven't paid a tv license in 11 years now. Once the inspector came in with Gardai, I asked them if I am being arrested, did I commit a crime, or what? If not then they can go home and stop wasting tax payers money. Also you are not obligated to talk to the inspector. All my friends are doing it now and none of them pays anything to those hyenas...

I just don't answer the door, if somebody is calling they phone or text. If they don't they don't get in. No good ever comes from answering the door to unannounced guests, it's never somebody you want to talk to.

Pro Hoc Vice

kult wrote: »

2 of my friends got 3 months for not having tv license, but papers and media keep quiet...

They got time for refusing to pay the fine.