Disabled person's car clamped in church carpark

Danmay

A recently disabled relative's car was clamped at the weekend in the car park of a church. They had no idea that it was not ok to park there as the signs are very unclear.

They were left waiting nearly two hours in the cold for the clamp to be released. The car has a wheelchair sticker on the back window and a disabled permit on the front windscreen. The clamper who came to remove the clamp happily took €120 from them.

I appealed on Monday and got an email yestereday offereing a part refund but I want to go further as I really don't want this to happen to other disabled people. Any advice would be appreciated

spurious

If it's the church's car park they gave permission for the clampers to rob people. I'd be chasing the church - it's not like they need the funds.

dulpit

Danmay wrote: »

A recently disabled relative's car was clamped at the weekend in the car park of a church. They had no idea that it was not ok to park there as the signs are very unclear.

They were left waiting nearly two hours in the cold for the clamp to be released. The car has a wheelchair sticker on the back window and a disabled permit on the front windscreen. The clamper who came to remove the clamp happily took €120 from them.

I appealed on Monday and got an email yestereday offereing a part refund but I want to go further as I really don't want this to happen to other disabled people. Any advice would be appreciated

I'm not professing any legal knowledge or anything, but why would the fact that your relative being disabled preclude them from getting a parking ticket if they were in fact illegally parked? Surely inclusivity means that parking companies can gouge everyone the same way, regardless of their disabled status.

Michael D Not Higgins

Danmay wrote: »

I emailed the church but they have not replied!

A "parking ticket" would have been much easier to deal with. I would have happily paid it for them (and I am not flush by any means!).

To be fair they weren't aware that they were not parked legally and having gone to check it out myself, I can understand why. The signs are unclear (but that is probably deliberate!).

It’s the two hour wait in the cold that was so upsetting for them, one of them was only discharged from hospital last week and is quite unwell. I think it just immoral to treat disabled people this way, and apparently it happened to another disabled person last week in the same place. What a harsh world we are living in....

What did the sign actually say?

Michael D Not Higgins

Danmay wrote: »

1st sign "Church car park private. Vehicles parked at owners risk."

Other signs "NCPS Pay and Display Car Park. €2.50 per hour, miminum fee €2".

I know they should have paid as the NCPS sign doesn't say it not 24/7, but equally it doesn't say that it is 24/7 and other people in the area assumed that it was free at the weekends. They had parked there before and I think are not sure of all the different times and rules with the different operators etc as its all a fairly new experience.

As far as I'm aware, private car parks are under no obligation to recognise disabled parking permits, these are only for on-street parking. As such, NCPS were just showing a bit of leniency by offering to lower the fee.

I've never seen a parking sign that doesn't show hours of operation. Can you let us know where it is so we can see it on streetview or do you have a photo?

whippet

I despise clamping in all it's forms in private car parks etc .. but this I don't think is the OP's issue.

Is the OP of the opinion that disabled drivers should be exempted from private parking rules?

Michael D Not Higgins

whippet wrote: »

I despise clamping in all it's forms in private car parks etc .. but this I don't think is the OP's issue.

Is the OP of the opinion that disabled drivers should be exempted from private parking rules?

They normally are, but only for parking spaces on public roads.

mathepac

and the problem is ...?

Michael D Not Higgins

Danmay wrote: »

No, I don't think they should be exempted from private parking rules but some concessions would be helpful e.g. mobility to and from the pay and display machines can be difficult.

I also think that private car parks should have clearly marked designated disabled spaces which are easy to access. My main upset is the length of time they were made to wait; a long wait in the cold for a disabled person is just cruel.

Why didn't they turn the car's heating on then?

Arthur Beesley

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Why didn't they turn the car's heating on then?

Exactly. The OP makes it sound like they stood out in the cold for the 2 hours...

Also wondering could they not ring friend / relative and leave one only person waiting...in the car?

Hesh's Umpire

spurious wrote: »

I'd be chasing the church - it's not like they need the funds.

Are you sure of that? Obviously, it's likely to be an RCC chapel but could also be a smaller church needing the funding to keep ticking over. Just a thought.

PrettyBoy

Danmay wrote: »

A recently disabled relative's car was clamped at the weekend in the car park of a church. They had no idea that it was not ok to park there as the signs are very unclear.

They were left waiting nearly two hours in the cold for the clamp to be released. The car has a wheelchair sticker on the back window and a disabled permit on the front windscreen. The clamper who came to remove the clamp happily took €120 from them.

I appealed on Monday and got an email yestereday offereing a part refund but I want to go further as I really don't want this to happen to other disabled people. Any advice would be appreciated

What's the problem here? If you don't want other disabled people to get clamped you should advise all the disabled people you know not to park illegally on private property.

mordeith

Danmay wrote: »

They did but couldn't run the engine for nearly two hours which is how long it took for the clampers to return.

I think sympathy for disabled stickers on cars is gone down because of the blatant abuse of these permits you can observe on a daily basis. The amount of times I've seen car park up with the sticker on the window and a fully mobile driver steps out to go about their shopping. Either (a) they are fraudulently claimng disability or more likely (b) using a relative's permit to avail of the disabled parking spaces.

I do sympathise with the OP's relative's predicament in having to wait so long for the clampers to return but I also agree with other poster's viewpoints on illegal parking

PrettyBoy

Danmay wrote: »

Photos attached.
Attachment not found.
Attachment not found.

Very clear from the signs that it is a private car park and that clamping is in operation. I can't imagine why anyone would assume a private car park would be free to use during weekends?

mordeith

Danmay wrote: »

Photos attached.

Attachment not found.

Attachment not found.

Photo 1 I would interpret as just being a disclaimer against damage suffered in the car park.

Photo 2 I would see as being pretty unambiguous. Pay and Display.

Danmay

Thanks for your comments folks.

Peppa Pig

mordeith wrote: »

I think sympathy for disabled stickers on cars is gone down because of the blatant abuse of these permits you can observe on a daily basis. The amount of times I've seen car park up with the sticker on the window and a fully mobile driver steps out to go about their shopping. Either (a) they are fraudulently claimng disability or more likely (b) using a relative's permit to avail of the disabled parking spaces.

You need to educate yourself. The pass is for mobility issues, ranging from a complete lack of ability to walk to difficulty walking any appreciable distance. Most passes are issued to cardiac/pulmonary cases.
I have a pass and appear mobile. I can't walk more than about 50 yards without having to stop and catch my breath. If you saw me park beside a shop and walk in you would assume I am a fraud.


The blue badge only gives free parking on the road and some public car parks. I've yet to see a private car park that is free to blue badge. The majority of hospitals in Dublin don't even offer free parking for disabled people.

No Pants

Danmay wrote: »

They did but couldn't run the engine for nearly two hours which is how long it took for the clampers to return.

Could have gone inside the church and prayed for the baby Jesus to turn the clamp into daisies or something. Might even have been warm too.

A practical step, assuming the person is religious, and I'm presuming because they parked on the grounds of a church that they are, is to stop giving funds to the church until €120 is saved. Then they're not out of pocket.

Shadow Walker

Danmay wrote: »

A recently disabled relative's car was clamped at the weekend in the car park of a church. They had no idea that it was not ok to park there as the signs are very unclear.

They were left waiting nearly two hours in the cold for the clamp to be released. The car has a wheelchair sticker on the back window and a disabled permit on the front windscreen. The clamper who came to remove the clamp happily took €120 from them.

I appealed on Monday and got an email yestereday offereing a part refund but I want to go further as I really don't want this to happen to other disabled people. Any advice would be appreciated

Firstly let me say I am not and never have been a fan of champers. I also have a family member who is disabled and whose mobility is severely restricted so I have some understanding of the difficulties faced by the couple.

The road traffic act applies to all motorists and if the OP is stating the couple should be excused because of the disability (in an empty car park) then I think they are doing all disabled people a disservice. As for waiting for the two hours wait for the champers to return, unless you are saying that the champers deliberately delayed aim not sure how you can blame them for the delay , they may have been a distance away, involved with another job etc.

While it is unfortunate and the couple have my sympathy, they need to obey the rules like everyone else.

PrettyBoy

I'm surprised that the clamping company have apparently offered to refund part of their fee. If I were the OP I'd take whatever money they're willing to refund and run because the clampers are 100% in the right in this case.

Shadow Walker

PrettyBoy wrote: »

I'm surprised that the clamping company have apparently offered to refund part of their fee. If I were the OP I'd take whatever money they're willing to refund and run because the clampers are 100% in the right in this case.

Agreed , I think under the circumstances the fine reduction appears to be a fair compromise .