Car abandoned in communal spaces?

BobbleBrunette

Hi all!

Not sure where to post this and if there is anything I can do.


I live in an apartment complex, I think there's 50+ apartments, every apartment has one designated parking space. There are also six communal spaces (for visitors, second cars etc.) The communal spaces are out in the open, on the public road that runs through the estate.

There has been a car abandoned in one of the communal spaces since April last year. Literally has not moved. All four wheels are flat and there is moss starting to grow on the windows. It irritates me and I suspect many others because it is taking up one of the six spaces.

Tax, insurance and NCT are all long gone but a friend of mine who is a Garda says there's very little the guards can do except give it a ticket.

Have thought about contacting the management company but is there anything they can do?

I have noticed a few little notes left on the windscreen of the car, "THIS IS NOT A LONG TERM CAR PARK." etc. So I'm not the only resident feeling this way.

Any suggestions?

dutopia

This is a common enough problem in apartment complexes nowadays. In our complex car park, there are 4 abandoned cars that have been there since I moved in nearly a year ago. Two were removed recently after someone smashed the windows... maybe they had to take them away for safety reason then? Not sure who would be responsible for abandoned cars.

Del2005

Call the management agent. They'll ask you to stick a note on the car to contact them, they'll send a circular to all the units and in a fee weeks they'll remove it. I've done it to a few cars dumped in my complex.

Del2005

dutopia wrote: »

This is a common enough problem in apartment complexes nowadays. In our complex car park, there are 4 abandoned cars that have been there since I moved in nearly a year ago. Two were removed recently after someone smashed the windows... maybe they had to take them away for safety reason then? Not sure who would be responsible for abandoned cars.

The complexs are private property if you own an apartment you are responsible for them through the management company. There are a few steps that need to be taken to remove them.

corktina

Del2005 wrote: »

Call the management company. They'll ask you to stick a note on the car to contact them, they'll send a circular to all the units and in a fee weeks they'll remove it. I've done it to a few cars dumped in my complex.

it's on the public road...call the Council

bobbysands81

BobbleBrunette wrote: »

Hi all!

Not sure where to post this and if there is anything I can do.


I live in an apartment complex, I think there's 50+ apartments, every apartment has one designated parking space. There are also six communal spaces (for visitors, second cars etc.) The communal spaces are out in the open, on the public road that runs through the estate.

There has been a car abandoned in one of the communal spaces since April last year. Literally has not moved. All four wheels are flat and there is moss starting to grow on the windows. It irritates me and I suspect many others because it is taking up one of the six spaces.

Tax, insurance and NCT are all long gone but a friend of mine who is a Garda says there's very little the guards can do except give it a ticket.

Have thought about contacting the management company but is there anything they can do?

I have noticed a few little notes left on the windscreen of the car, "THIS IS NOT A LONG TERM CAR PARK." etc. So I'm not the only resident feeling this way.

Any suggestions?

If there is no registration plate on the car, and the common areas in your estate have been taken in charge by your local authority, then they will get rid of the car.

If estate is not taken in charge and common areas are owned by Management Co then get the agents to chase it up with a view to getting the owner to take the car away or dispose of it legally.

Either way it will take someone (like yourself) to drive the issue.

Del2005

corktina wrote: »

it's on the public road...call the Council

There are no public roads in managed estates, just because they are open to the public doesn't mean that they are public. I can happily drive around my completely open estate with no tax and nothing can be done, but if I drive 20 meters from where I park I'm on a public road and will be fined.

bobbysands81

Del2005 wrote: »

There are no public roads in managed estates, just because they are open to the public doesn't mean that they are public. I can happily drive around my completely open estate with no tax and nothing can be done, but if I drive 20 meters from where I park I'm on a public road and will be fined.

You're wrong mate... unless you live in a gated complex.

Google 'taking in charge'.

corktina

Del2005 wrote: »

There are no public roads in managed estates, just because they are open to the public doesn't mean that they are public. I can happily drive around my completely open estate with no tax and nothing can be done, but if I drive 20 meters from where I park I'm on a public road and will be fined.

He SAYS it's a public road.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Del2005

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You're wrong mate... unless you live in a gated complex.

Google 'taking in charge'.

I know what taken in charge is and I know how to remove cars from private complexes as I've had several removed.

Del2005

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The Road Traffic Acts apply on private land that the public have the right to access. As said you need a gate to stop that.

I never said that the Road Traffic Act doesn't apply. I said that you can't be done for no motor tax on private land and you don't need a gate for land to be private. A car parked on an ungated driveway doesn't need motor tax.

SleeperService

Bobby sands first post here looks like the amswer to me.
The positive skew on this is that you must live somewhere nice. Guarantee a car parked like that wouldn't have lasted 9 days unmolested in my particular part of lovely limerick, nevermind 9 months.

MugMugs

Del2005 wrote: »

There are no public roads in managed estates, just because they are open to the public doesn't mean that they are public. I can happily drive around my completely open estate with no tax and nothing can be done, but if I drive 20 meters from where I park I'm on a public road and will be fined.

Are you suggesting I could drive pissed around my housing estate, run over a dog and injure a child out on their bike and not be done ?

hoodie6029

Pump up the tyres, get a couple of mates to bounce it out into the road and see how long it lasts!

Del2005

MugMugs wrote: »

Are you suggesting I could drive pissed around my housing estate, run over a dog and injure a child out on their bike and not be done ?

No.

The Dagda

MugMugs wrote: »

Are you suggesting I could drive pissed around my housing estate, run over a dog and injure a child out on their bike and not be done ?

:rolleyes:

It's obvious he's not suggesting any of that. He specifically mentioned motor tax...

dr.fuzzenstein

If you know the "right" people, ask them to take it away, they will only be to happy to sell it for scrap. Gone in a day.

H3llR4iser

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If you know the "right" people, ask them to take it away, they will only be to happy to sell it for scrap. Gone in a day.

That is the thing I can't quite figure out: assuming it's not stolen, why do people abandon cars? worse case scenario, you can always get rid of it as scrap. We used to have a relevant problem with this in the office's car park; Every now and then, we'd have people just driving in at night and leaving cars there forever. According to the Gardai, none of them was stolen

MugMugs

Del2005 wrote: »

No.

So how is driving without tax any different?

dr.fuzzenstein

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That is the thing I can't quite figure out: assuming it's not stolen, why do people abandon cars? worse case scenario, you can always get rid of it as scrap. We used to have a relevant problem with this in the office's car park; Every now and then, we'd have people just driving in at night and leaving cars there forever. According to the Gardai, none of them was stolen

Laziness and ignorance I'd say.
Too much bother to sell it or scrap it, so just dumphertheretofook, be grand.
Have you any idea how many horses are dumped in this country? Same principle but worse, to my mind.
Selfish, stupid, ignorant pricks.

djimi

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That is the thing I can't quite figure out: assuming it's not stolen, why do people abandon cars? worse case scenario, you can always get rid of it as scrap. We used to have a relevant problem with this in the office's car park; Every now and then, we'd have people just driving in at night and leaving cars there forever. According to the Gardai, none of them was stolen

What I dont get is the people who abandon cars and leave the plates on them. Do they not realise that the things can be traced back to them or something?

H3llR4iser

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Laziness and ignorance I'd say.
Too much bother to sell it or scrap it, so just dumphertheretofook, be grand.
Have you any idea how many horses are dumped in this country? Same principle but worse, to my mind.
Selfish, stupid, ignorant pricks.

Still, people go absurd lengths to save 100 Euro in motor tax, then pass up the opportunity to get 100/150 Euro from just selling a car for scrap steel?

Also, some of the cars I saw abandoned were still worth quite a bit on the used market; e.g. somebody dumped a Peugeot 207 CC, registration 2007 with nearly perfect bodywork, decent tires and alloy wheels - just the wheels+tires would sell on DoneDeal.ie for 200/300 Euro.

One thing that comes to my mind is that maybe, a lot of non-Irish nationals don't know you can sell for scrap; Getting rid of an old car in Italy, for example, will COST you about 200 Euro...

SleeperService

djimi wrote: »

What I dont get is the people who abandon cars and leave the plates on them. Do they not realise that the things can be traced back to them or something?

Shur it'll be traced anyway by vin numbers if it has to be in the absence of reg plates.

The Dagda

MugMugs wrote: »

So how is driving without tax any different?

You don't understand how running over a dog, or injuring a child on a bike, with your car, is different from driving a car on private property without motor tax?!

MugMugs

The Dagda wrote: »

You don't understand how running over a dog, or injuring a child on a bike, with your car, is different from driving a car on private property without motor tax?!

In the context of the above, no.

Of course I know the differences however look at the below.

The Road Traffic Acts set out the main provisions for motoring in Ireland. This legislation deals with issues such as vehicle licensing, vehicle standards, your obligations and responsibilities, etc. Motoring offences can include drink driving, speeding, driving without evidence of insurance or motor tax, driving without due care and attention and driving without a seatbelt. A new offence of driving while holding a mobile telephone was introduced in 2006.

Link

So why can I drive around with no tax in an estate but not do my above reasons?

It's the same law.

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

It's the same law.

Out of interest does that law relate to cars driven in a public place or on a public road?

If it's one or the other you would indeed need motor tax to drive in a housing estate. I recall someone posting here that a public place was anywhere a member of the public can enter without restriction (or something like that) under law in Ireland.

dr.fuzzenstein

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Still, people go absurd lengths to save 100 Euro in motor tax, then pass up the opportunity to get 100/150 Euro from just selling a car for scrap steel?

Also, some of the cars I saw abandoned were still worth quite a bit on the used market; e.g. somebody dumped a Peugeot 207 CC, registration 2007 with nearly perfect bodywork, decent tires and alloy wheels - just the wheels+tires would sell on DoneDeal.ie for 200/300 Euro.

One thing that comes to my mind is that maybe, a lot of non-Irish nationals don't know you can sell for scrap; Getting rid of an old car in Italy, for example, will COST you about 200 Euro...

I wonder is there any way to take possession of an abandoned car, i.e saying I bought it and seller never sent log-book and now has vanished...

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

Out of interest does that law relate to cars driven in a public place or on a public road?.

It's both I believe

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

It's both I believe

That's what I understood from it.

While I won't comment on a specific case I know of someone who got done for drink driving on private property that was open to the public. They're argument that they weren't on a public road didn't wash as it was a road which was open to the public.

keithclancy

MugMugs wrote: »

So how is driving without tax any different?

Because you need Motor Tax to drive your vehicle on a Public Road, not have it in a Public Place.

MugMugs

keithclancy wrote: »

Because you need Motor Tax to drive your vehicle on a Public Road, not have it in a Public Place.

Sure about that?

keithclancy

MugMugs wrote: »

Sure about that?

Well I got a ticket from Cork City Council for failure to display a valid motor tax disc. Was parked off the Public road in the parking at our apartment block.

Appealed it and it was cancelled, warden must have been new or something.

Del2005

ba_barabus wrote: »

Out of interest does that law relate to cars driven in a public place or on a public road?

If it's one or the other you would indeed need motor tax to drive in a housing estate. I recall someone posting here that a public place was anywhere a member of the public can enter without restriction (or something like that) under law in Ireland.

A private road can be a public place if there is easy access for the public. To make a private road a private place you need to physicality restrict public access, including pedestrian, then RTA doesn't apply but you still can't do as you please as there are plenty of laws that still so.

The RTA requires motor tax be paid to use public roads, which includes parking, there is nothing in the statues that says you need motor tax to use private roads.

Shadow Walker

Del2005 wrote: »

There are no public roads in managed estates, just because they are open to the public doesn't mean that they are public. I can happily drive around my completely open estate with no tax and nothing can be done, but if I drive 20 meters from where I park I'm on a public road and will be fined.

If you google "Traffic Act" "public place" definition you will get the legal definition of what constitutes a public place under the Road Traffic Act

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

keithclancy

Shadow Walker wrote: »

If you google "Traffic Act" "public place" definition you will get the legal definition of what constitutes a public place under the Road Traffic Act

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

I vaguely remember at the time it was something to do with used/not used.

I.E. I could get a ticket for driving in a Public place for not being parked in a Public place on a private road.

Was around 8-9 years ago.

enda1

Shadow Walker wrote: »

If you google "Traffic Act" "public place" definition you will get the legal definition of what constitutes a public place under the Road Traffic Act

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

Seems correct. According to the dept of the environment, you must have motor tax if your vehicle uses and public place (private land or not). This apparently includes a driveway too unless there is a gate on it. It seems the gate transforms the land to a private place.

MugMugs

Del2005 wrote: »

A private road can be a public place if there is easy access for the public. To make a private road a private place you need to physicality restrict public access, including pedestrian, then RTA doesn't apply but you still can't do as you please as there are plenty of laws that still so.

The RTA requires motor tax be paid to use public roads, which includes parking, there is nothing in the statues that says you need motor tax to use private roads.

But you said that you could drive an untaxed car around your estate and not be done. Do you stand by this point? Is your estate not a public place?

keithclancy

MugMugs wrote: »

But you said that you could drive an untaxed car around your estate and not be done. Do you stand by this point? Is your estate not a public place?

Well I tend to release the hounds if people come onto my estate without my permission.

Shadow Walker

MugMugs wrote: »

But you said that you could drive an untaxed car around your estate and not be done. Do you stand by this point? Is your estate not a public place?

By the definition of "Public Place" above driving around a private estate with no tax is an offence unless of course it is a restricted gated estate with access only for residents

enda1

Shadow Walker wrote: »

By the definition of "Public Place" above driving around a private estate with no tax is an offence unless of course it is a restricted gated estate with access only for residents

Funnily it says on the DoE website
"Liability for motor tax arises when a vehicle is used in a public place/road."

I wonder if your tax lapses while the vehicle is parked in a public place would it be loophole exempt?

MugMugs

Shadow Walker wrote: »

By the definition of "Public Place" above driving around a private estate with no tax is an offence unless of course it is a restricted gated estate with access only for residents

Agreed

pippip

enda1 wrote: »

Seems correct. According to the dept of the environment, you must have motor tax if your vehicle uses and public place (private land or not). This apparently includes a driveway too unless there is a gate on it. It seems the gate transforms the land to a private place.

Does the gate have to be closed? or just be fitted?

enda1

pippip wrote: »

Does the gate have to be closed? or just be fitted?

No idea though I'd assume closed

The Dagda

enda1 wrote: »

Funnily it says on the DoE website
"Liability for motor tax arises when a vehicle is used in a public place/road."

I wonder if your tax lapses while the vehicle is parked in a public place would it be loophole exempt?

It can say whatever on a website but the legality would be defined by the Act that set down the law.

The original Act in 1920 used the term "Public Road" and the definition of a public road under the 1961 Act is;

“public road” means a road the responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority;

Does anyone know if the 1920 Act was amended to allow the use of the term "Public Place"?

Shadow Walker

pippip wrote: »

Does the gate have to be closed? or just be fitted?

Again check the earlier definition , if a gate is open it doesn't really restrict much

enda1

The Dagda wrote: »

It can say whatever on a website but the legality would be defined by the Act that set down the law.

The original Act in 1920 used the term "Public Road" and the definition of a public road under the 1961 Act is;

“public road” means a road the responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority;

Does anyone know if the 1920 Act was amended to allow the use of the term "Public Place"?

Interesting perhaps you're right because in 1953 it was still mentioned as public road like you say.
Makes you wonder why they misinform so badly on the DoE and citizensinformation.ie websites...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1952/en/act/pub/0024/sec0001.html#sec1

"1.—(1) On and after the 1st day of January, 1953, there shall, subject to the provisions of this Act, be charged, levied and paid in respect of mechanically propelled vehicles used on public roads duties of excise at the rates specified in the Schedule to this Act."

The Dagda

enda1 wrote: »

Interesting perhaps you're right because in 1953 it was still mentioned as public road like you say.
Makes you wonder why they misinform so badly on the DoE and citizensinformation.ie websites...

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1952/en/act/pub/0024/sec0001.html#sec1

"1.—(1) On and after the 1st day of January, 1953, there shall, subject to the provisions of this Act, be charged, levied and paid in respect of mechanically propelled vehicles used on public roads duties of excise at the rates specified in the Schedule to this Act."

Edit: I checked and it looks like there was an amendment in the Finance Act, 1976 which replaced Public Roads with Public Places. So that seems to mean it is illegal to use (park) an untaxed car in a public place.

Amendment of section 1 (excise duties in respect of mechanically propelled vehicles on public roads) of Act of 1952.

78.—(1) Section 1 of the Act of 1952 is hereby amended by—

(a) the substitution of “in any public place” for “on public roads” in subsection (1); and

(b) the substitution of the following for subsection (11):

“(11) In this section—

‘public place’ means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with mechanically propelled vehicles as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

‘quarter’ means any period of three months.”;

and the said subsection (1), as so amended, is set out in the Table to this section.

(2) Section 1 (1) of the Act of 1952, as amended by subsection (1) of this section, shall be construed and shall have effect in relation to a vehicle to which section 70 of this Act applies as if the words “used in any public place” were deleted.

TABLE

1.—(1) On and after the 1st day of January, 1953, there shall, subject to the provisions of this Act, be charged, levied and paid in respect of mechanically propelled vehicles used in any public place duties of excise at the rates specified in the Schedule to this Act.

enda1

Goddamit.

So we're back to public place. Hmm
You must have the "right" or "permission" to enter (this is Joe Public stranger) for it to be a public place. I wonder if that means a sign stating "private no entry to unauthorised vehicles" is enough as it removes permission and right from Joe himself? i.e. a gate being unnecessary. Wonder where it leaves driveways?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

keithclancy

This thread is stupid and a waste of time.

I'm out :pac: