Parental Leave V's 3 day week

newtowheels

Hi,

before having kids I worked a five day week. I returned to work after both maternity leaves.
I'm trying to figure out what are the pros and cons of taking parental leave so I can work a 3 day week, v's just officially working a 3 day week. I odn't know very much about tax and PRSI

Thanks

Sligo1

newtowheels wrote: »

Hi,

before having kids I worked a five day week. I returned to work after both maternity leaves.
I'm trying to figure out what are the pros and cons of taking parental leave so I can work a 3 day week, v's just officially working a 3 day week. I odn't know very much about tax and PRSI

Thanks

Parental leave is 'protected' leave. If u used your parental leave to work a 3 day week you would still be entitled to your annual leave (or holidays) as if you were still working your 5 day week. If you went down and just worked a 3 day week your annual leave or holidays would only be pro rata... So you wouldn't have as many paid holidays to take.

I'm not sure about tax etc... I'm crap at working all that out

Sligo1

O sorry... Also If you were planning on another baby... As the leave is protected your maternity pay would be worked out as if you were still working full time. You would only be paid part time if you officially decided just to work the 3 day week instead.

pwurple

It depends... I worked a 4 day week after returning from mat leave, and chose NOT to use parental leave at the time. Reason is that I wanted to save it to use during a summer off when the child is in school. You can use it up to several years in the future.

If you don't plan to use it like that, then yes, if your company allows, use it to go to a 3 day week. You keep your same holiday allowance etc then. otherwise you reduce your holiday balance.

Moonbeam

Sligo1 wrote: »

O sorry... Also If you were planning on another baby... As the leave is protected your maternity pay would be worked out as if you were still working full time. You would only be paid part time if you officially decided just to work the 3 day week instead.

Maternity pay is fixed.

I worked full time then when I had my 1st I went back on a 3 day week using up my holidays etc but could not face a full week so changed permanently to a 3 day week and the 2nd time I worked a 3 day week going on leave and came back to a 3 day week,I was self employed the 3rd time and a bit of both this time.

If you only want it to be temporary and want to return to full time I would take parental leave but if you want it to be permanent I would just change my contract.

Sligo1

Moonbeam wrote: »

Maternity pay is fixed.

I worked full time then when I had my 1st I went back on a 3 day week using up my holidays etc but could not face a full week so changed permanently to a 3 day week and the 2nd time I worked a 3 day week going on leave and came back to a 3 day week,I was self employed the 3rd time and a bit of both this time.

If you only want it to be temporary and want to return to full time I would take parental leave but if you want it to be permanent I would just change my contract.

I'm talking about paid maternity leave from your employer... I'm currently on a block of 18 weeks parental leave and because this is protected I am going to be getting full mat leave payment from my employer and I won't even be going back to work....

groucho marx

Silly question but what is parental leave? Im due to return from mat leave shortly and have never heard of a parental leave.

Moonbeam

Sligo1 wrote: »

I'm talking about paid maternity leave from your employer... I'm currently on a block of 18 weeks parental leave and because this is protected I am going to be getting full mat leave payment from my employer and I won't even be going back to work....

That is the advantage of large blocks of parental leave:)

Moonbeam

groucho marx wrote: »

Silly question but what is parental leave? Im due to return from mat leave shortly and have never heard of a parental leave.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/parental_leave.html

Sligo1

Moonbeam wrote: »

That is the advantage of large blocks of parental leave:)

Lol... Yea I have to say its great. But even if you went down to a 3 day week and took it over the course of 6 months to a year (however long it works out)... You'd still be entitled to full mat leave pay. That's of course if your employer pays mat leave.

Hello Lady!

Instead of utilising my parental leave, my employers have agreed to allow me to spread out my unpaid maternity leave by taking it as 2 days per week rather than a block of 18 weeks. So for almost a year I will be working 3 days per week, with my annual leave protected. Bu the end of that time I will then see if I want to continue as 3 days and petition my employer for a permanent change.

Moonbeam

Sligo1 wrote: »

Lol... Yea I have to say its great. But even if you went down to a 3 day week and took it over the course of 6 months to a year (however long it works out)... You'd still be entitled to full mat leave pay. That's of course if your employer pays mat leave.

True,I got paid for mine and it was truly brilliant it really made my 1st maternity leave a lot easier.

Fairie

Sligo1 wrote: »

I'm talking about paid maternity leave from your employer... I'm currently on a block of 18 weeks parental leave and because this is protected I am going to be getting full mat leave payment from my employer and I won't even be going back to work....

Is parental leave not unpaid leave? Or is it at the discretion of your employer? I know public service members don't get paid for this leave!

Sligo1

Fairie wrote: »

Is parental leave not unpaid leave? Or is it at the discretion of your employer? I know public service members don't get paid for this leave!

Yes it is a form of unpaid leave but is protected. Protected, in that you still accrue all your annual leave and maternity benefits as if you were working full time. If you were to take normal unpaid leave you would not accrue the same annual leave and perhaps not get full maternity leave paid your employer (of course depending when you take the normal unpaid leave).

Although parental leave is an entitlement, the way you take it or the time you take it is still at the discretion of your employer and needs to be approved by them.

Fairie

Sligo1 wrote: »

Yes it is a form of unpaid leave but is protected. Protected, in that you still accrue all your annual leave and maternity benefits as if you were working full time. If you were to take normal unpaid leave you would not accrue the same annual leave and perhaps not get full maternity leave paid your employer (of course depending when you take the normal unpaid leave).

Although parental leave is an entitlement, the way you take it or the time you take it is still at the discretion of your employer and needs to be approved by them.

Ah I read your post wrong I thought you were getting paid for the actual parental leave as well, I was thinking I want to work where she works!!
Anyone know is it 18 weeks per child you are entitled to or just an overall total of 18 weeks? I hope to reduce to a 3 day week when I return to work

Sligo1

Fairie wrote: »

Ah I read your post wrong I thought you were getting paid for the actual parental leave as well, I was thinking I want to work where she works!!
Anyone know is it 18 weeks per child you are entitled to or just an overall total of 18 weeks? I hope to reduce to a 3 day week when I return to work

Per child

Fairie

Sligo1 wrote: »

Per child

Thanks

Hello Lady!

Yeah it's per child but you can only take a maximum of 18 weeks in one year unless you have twins or multiples.

Madisson

Im thinking of going back on a 4 day week. Does anyone know if the 18 weeks are calculated on a 7 or 5 day week. Just want to know how long id get out of it before having to officially go on a 4 day week.

Rose35

In my job I get paid by my employer for maternity leave but in my contract it states that i must return to work for at least 6 months after my maternity leave finishes or I have to pay back the 6 months paid maternity leave, so check your contracts if you think you will not be returning after paid maternity leave, hopefully you wont owe back the money to the company!!!

Sligo1

Rose35 wrote: »

In my job I get paid by my employer for maternity leave but in my contract it states that i must return to work for at least 6 months after my maternity leave finishes or I have to pay back the 6 months paid maternity leave, so check your contracts if you think you will not be returning after paid maternity leave, hopefully you wont owe back the money to the company!!!

Hi rose, I'm not sure of your contract but you are entitled to 24 weeks unpaid maternity leave following your 6 months paid maternity leave. You don't have to go back as soon as your 6 months paid is up. But of course this is at the discretion of your employer. You are also entitled to 18 weeks parental leave which you're take in the first 8 years of giving birth.

For example. I took my 6 months paid mat leave, followed by my 24 weeks unpaid mat leave during which I became pregnant. I then was granted the 18 week block of patental leave to follow on directly. I was due to commence work in February but as my baby is due in march I will be put straight back onto my next paid maternity leave. Hope this makes sense.

You will only have to pay back your paid maternity leave if you actually choose to leave or resign from your employer without returning to work for a period of 6 months prior to the resignation.

lazygal

I thought it was 16 weeks unpaid leave? That's what I took last time and will take this time. With annual leave and accrued bank/public holidays I'll have about 22 weeks off (16 unpaid, the rest paid) after the 26 weeks of paid maternity leave.

Sligo1

lazygal wrote: »

I thought it was 16 weeks unpaid leave? That's what I took last time and will take this time. With annual leave and accrued bank/public holidays I'll have about 22 weeks off (16 unpaid, the rest paid) after the 26 weeks of paid maternity leave.

Yes ur right... I was in bed this morning when I wrote that! Lol....

Rose35

You will only have to pay back your paid maternity leave if you actually choose to leave or resign from your employer without returning to work for a period of 6 months prior to the resignation.

Yes that is what I am saying, if I terminate my employment and choose not to return after them paying me for 6 months then I owe them the full 6 months pay back.
I didn't take any extra time and returned to work after the 6 months leave was up, the parental leave is great but will hold onto it until little one starts school maybe but that won't be for another few years yet.

lazygal

I'd love to know how employers can claim that paid leave back! Would they take it out of holiday pay or send a bill?!

Sligo1

lazygal wrote: »

I'd love to know how employers can claim that paid leave back! Would they take it out of holiday pay or send a bill?!

I've no idea. I worked with a person who went on her mat leave and didnt want to return after. She took another job elsewhere. Work just said for her to come Back as work 2 weeks and she never had to pay anything back...

So maybe that's all at the discretion of the employer aswell... Perhaps they just don't want people who come in and for example only work a year and get full mat leave then resign.... That's just taking the p/ss altogether.

Fairie

Madisson wrote: »

Im thinking of going back on a 4 day week. Does anyone know if the 18 weeks are calculated on a 7 or 5 day week. Just want to know how long id get out of it before having to officially go on a 4 day week.

I checked with my HR section this morning and was told for me (I'm full time Monday to Friday) it's calculated on 5 day week so if I was to work a 4 day week I could take one day parental leave for 90 weeks. I'm assuming that's the case for everyone I do stand corrected though!

Madisson

Fairie wrote: »

I checked with my HR section this morning and was told for me (I'm full time Monday to Friday) it's calculated on 5 day week so if I was to work a 4 day week I could take one day parental leave for 90 weeks. I'm assuming that's the case for everyone I do stand corrected though!

Thanks a mill

Hello Lady!

Fairie wrote: »

I checked with my HR section this morning and was told for me (I'm full time Monday to Friday) it's calculated on 5 day week so if I was to work a 4 day week I could take one day parental leave for 90 weeks. I'm assuming that's the case for everyone I do stand corrected though!

It's 16 weeks additional unpaid maternity leave which, on a 5 day working week is 80 days. If you took 1 day per week it would be 80 weeks not 90. But you still accrue bank holidays so if you add them in it would be longer. If you took Monday as your regular day off, then on weeks where there is a bank holiday you could either get paid for 5 days but work 4, or take the extra day at the end of the 80 weeks or take any extra day off that week.

I am planning on taking Monday as one of my days. When there is a bank holiday I won't take an extra day, or extra pay for the bank holiday (too messy for payroll) but instead dividing let the bank holidays accumulate and take them in a block as extra hols or add them to the end of the unpaid weeks.

In my case I want to take 2 days per week off sowwith bank hols and normal annual leave it will be about a year of part time before I use up my 80 days unpaid. I am hoping at the end of that to make a case for moving to 4 days a week as if I can do my job with minimal delegation to others on the 3 day week I will be more than able to do it entirely myself in 4. It may mean me working a bit later some nights near the end of the month, but my childcare is taken care of by family so I have that flexibility. And I would rather work and extra half hour once a week in order to have an extra full day with my girls.

If you are proposing such a thing to your employer, being prepared to be flexible (if you can) might help sell it to them. My boss was in two minds until I said that once a month I will do 4 days instead of 3 to ensure our end of month reports (which are very important to all departments) go out on time. Once I said this and mentioned I won't take an extra day on bank holiday weeks they went for it (suits me better too as it means my 80 days will last longer into the future by doing it this way). It's not possible for everyone, but if it is possible to be flexible it can work in your favour more than anyones!

lazygal

You can't break up unpaid maternity leave. It must be taken as weeks up to 16 weeks total after paid ml ends. Unpaid parental leave arrangements while at the discretion of the employer can be broken into days.

Hello Lady!

lazygal wrote: »

You can't break up unpaid maternity leave. It must be taken as weeks up to 16 weeks total after paid ml ends. Unpaid parental leave arrangements while at the discretion of the employer can be broken into days.

Yes you can, there's nothing in law which says you can't, so it's at discretion of your employer. Parental leave is the same, how you take it is at your employers discretion. Some employers insist that you take parental leave as a minimum 6 week block which is the guideline minimum amount. Some companies will not allow you to take your 18 weeks at one day a week. It makes sense in some companies where it is easier for them to hire someone for x many weeks while you are off rather than 1 day a week or whatever. They are within their rights to do this - they can't refuse you taking the lead but they can make a call on how it is taken provided they have a good reason for doing so and are consistent with how they apply any policy.

However at the end of parental you can apply for reduced hours and your employer is obliged to consider it - not obligated to allow reduced hours but obliged to consider it and must have a valid reason to refuse.

Fairie

Hello Lady! wrote: »

It's 16 weeks additional unpaid maternity leave which, on a 5 day working week is 80 days. If you took 1 day per week it would be 80 weeks not 90.

I meant parental leave which calculated on a 5 day week would be 18 weeks x 5 days per week which is 90 days!! Well that's what my employer told me I'm entitled to
I saw further down you mention about breaking up unpaid maternity leave from what I've seen on department of finance website it states unpaid maternity leave is up to 16 consecutive weeks. Sorry on phone won't let me attach a link to it. And taking of parental leave while it is a statutory right the time/pattern this leave is taken is at the discretion of your employer but both parties must agree on it

Hello Lady!

There is nothing in employment law to prevent you from taking your additional maternity broken up but as with parental leave it has to be agreed by both parties. I know this because I am the first person in almost 8 years to go on maternity leave in my workplace. I advised my employer that I might take the extra weeks, but it would come down to finances (I get paid for the 26 weeks but we would struggle financially if I were to take the extra unpaid 4 months). It was my manager who suggested taking my 16 weeks broken up - it means they don't have to hire extra staff at full pay for that period, they get me back and at a reduced rate. My replacement won't be doing the full range of my duties anyway so they are eager to get me back, even on a short week. We contacted NERA and the company solicitor to see if this was permitted and both said that as long as both employee and employers agree, and that the employer is not basically pressuring the staff member to return, or using it as a way of preventing the woman from taking maternity leave there is no issue. To make sure everything is above board I put the request in writing and it was approved in writing and checked by the solicitor.

Since doing it I have heard of a few other people who have also done it.

It suits me because it means I still have my 18 weeks parental leave for each of my twins if I need it at a later date.

Ginny

I'd really make sure about that, I work in PS and no one here is allowed take broken up unpaid maternity leave. If it was possible someone would have managed it here. On the citizen advice page it states it must be taken straight after the 26 weeks paid leave. Just double check someone in your HR isn't saying unpaid maternity and actually using your parental leave.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/maternity_benefit.html

lazygal

Ginny wrote: »

I'd really make sure about that, I work in PS and no one here is allowed take broken up unpaid maternity leave. If it was possible someone would have managed it here. On the citizen advice page it states it must be taken straight after the 26 weeks paid leave. Just double check someone in your HR isn't saying unpaid maternity and actually using your parental leave.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/maternity_benefit.html

Same here. I don't know.anyone who's broken unpaid maternity leave like that in any job. Parental leave yes, but never maternity leave.

Hello Lady!

Ginny wrote: »

I'd really make sure about that, I work in PS and no one here is allowed take broken up unpaid maternity leave. If it was possible someone would have managed it here. On the citizen advice page it states it must be taken straight after the 26 weeks paid leave. Just double check someone in your HR isn't saying unpaid maternity and actually using your parental leave.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/maternity_benefit.html

No need to double check, it's definitely maternity leave and it is being taken straight after the paid leave, just spread out. I have the agreement in writing and signed by both me and our MD. As I say, I have since spoken to 3 other women who did the same in different companies. It's at the discretion of the employer. The main thing is to ensure that it is not being used as a way to prevent the staff member from exercising their right to maternity at 16 weeks continuous leave. As long as it is clear this is not the case there is no issue.

Hello Lady!

Ginny wrote: »

I'd really make sure about that, I work in PS and no one here is allowed take broken up unpaid maternity leave. If it was possible someone would have managed it here. On the citizen advice page it states it must be taken straight after the 26 weeks paid leave. Just double check someone in your HR isn't saying unpaid maternity and actually using your parental leave.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/maternity_benefit.html

No need to double check, it's definitely maternity leave and guys being taken straight after the paid leave, just spread out. I have the agreement in writing and signed by both me and our MD. As I say, I have since spoken to 3 other women who did the same in different companies. It's at the discretion of the employer. The main thing is to ensure that it is not being used as a way to prevent the staff member from exercising their right to maternity at 16 weeks continuous leave. As long as it is clear this is not the case there is no issue.

Fairie

Hello Lady! wrote: »

There is nothing in employment law to prevent you from taking your additional maternity broken up but as with parental leave it has to be agreed by both parties. I know this because I am the first person in almost 8 years to go on maternity leave in my workplace. I advised my employer that I might take the extra weeks, but it would come down to finances (I get paid for the 26 weeks but we would struggle financially if I were to take the extra unpaid 4 months). It was my manager who suggested taking my 16 weeks broken up - it means they don't have to hire extra staff at full pay for that period, they get me back and at a reduced rate. My replacement won't be doing the full range of my duties anyway so they are eager to get me back, even on a short week. We contacted NERA and the company solicitor to see if this was permitted and both said that as long as both employee and employers agree, and that the employer is not basically pressuring the staff member to return, or using it as a way of preventing the woman from taking maternity leave there is no issue. To make sure everything is above board I put the request in writing and it was approved in writing and checked by the solicitor.

Since doing it I have heard of a few other people who have also done it.

It suits me because it means I still have my 18 weeks parental leave for each of my twins if I need it at a later date.

Maybe it is at the discretion of employer. It's only from what I read on finance website and my own experience with unpaid maternity was that I had to apply for it at least one month before my 26 paid weeks were up and it had to be taken consecutively and immediately after the paid leave was up. I don't know the ins and outs of it but I work in a pensions so I have come across all maternity and parental type paid and unpaid leave and I've never come across any client who had broken unpaid maternity leave. However if it is an option I would be very interested in learning more!

DavyD_83

My wife is due back in work in June after birth of our 1st child. From reading up on Parental leave it look slike it is a good option that would allow her to move to a 4 day working week for as long as the days off allow (18 weeks = 90 days; hopefully 1 day off a week for approx 2 years). When discussing return dates with HR recently, my wife asked about the possibilty and response seemed to be fairly positive.
But she was told that she would need to submit a proposal outlining the request.
Would anybody know what exactly should be included in such a proposal, and if there would be any examples or guidlines available online (or elsewhere)?
Thanks
Dave

Sligo1

DavyD_83 wrote: »

My wife is due back in work in June after birth of our 1st child. From reading up on Parental leave it look slike it is a good option that would allow her to move to a 4 day working week for as long as the days off allow (18 weeks = 90 days; hopefully 1 day off a week for approx 2 years). When discussing return dates with HR recently, my wife asked about the possibilty and response seemed to be fairly positive.
But she was told that she would need to submit a proposal outlining the request.
Would anybody know what exactly should be included in such a proposal, and if there would be any examples or guidlines available online (or elsewhere)?
Thanks
Dave

Do they not have a parental leave request form outlining all the details she needs to fill in and submit? In our work to just full in the details and wait for a reply from the manager/hr.

Ginny

They should have a blanket form, I've used Mondays and because of bank holidays and annual leave I'll get just under 2 years out of it.

DavyD_83

Ginny wrote: »

They should have a blanket form, I've used Mondays and because of bank holidays and annual leave I'll get just under 2 years out of it.

Thanks, yep above is the exactly the plan. They don't seem to have any form of this type. Small enough company, with one person for HR. Impression I get is that they may not have dealt with this specific type of request before

RentDayBlues

Hello Lady! wrote: »

No need to double check, it's definitely maternity leave and it is being taken straight after the paid leave, just spread out. I have the agreement in writing and signed by both me and our MD. As I say, I have since spoken to 3 other women who did the same in different companies. It's at the discretion of the employer. The main thing is to ensure that it is not being used as a way to prevent the staff member from exercising their right to maternity at 16 weeks continuous leave. As long as it is clear this is not the case there is no issue.

While your employer may be happy for you to take your unpaid maternity leave like, I would check with social welfare and revenue about this. The maternity act 1994 states that it must be take it consecutive weeks in one block, not spread as you can with parental leave.

The worse thing would be for you to have your employer say it's fine and then for welfare/revenue to say no! It's one of the reasons you need to make a submission to welfare after you finish your unpaid maternity leave to confirm the dates so you can have your prsi contributions updated to reflect this.

Sligo1

DavyD_83 wrote: »

Thanks, yep above is the exactly the plan. They don't seem to have any form of this type. Small enough company, with one person for HR. Impression I get is that they may not have dealt with this specific type of request before

Ok well if there's no specific form, the things I would include would be. Name, address, contact and pps number. Put in your parental leave entitlement, how much of the parental leave you wish to take (eg, the full 18 weeks or just 4 weeks etc) and the way in which you want to take it (ie. 1 day or 8 hours per week etc). Also put in the date you want to commence this leave and the date it will be concluded or all used up. You may need to include the birth date and name of your child for their records. As if you have more than one child you will be entitled to higher accrual of parental leave. Example. If I have 3 children I would be entitled to 3 x 18 weeks (18 weeks per child) before the child turns 8. So they would need to know which child you are taking the parental leave for.

Hope that helps