Rory Best - to those who doubted him, have a large slice of humble pie

Brewster

What can you say about the big man after tonight. I read comment after comment about Rory on here criticising his lack of throwing ability from those who clearly don't understand the art of the lineout. Against one of the best defensive lineouts in Europe, boy did he deliver tonight. Yes he suffered a bit last season as part of shocking Irish lineout, but he has proven himself time and time again. One of the first names on the time sheet against Scotland in two weeks.. ! A more honest player who won't meet!

.ak

In fairness his throwing was all over the shop last year.

awec

Had some bad throwing last year alright, but he was blamed nearly every time Ireland screwed up a lineout.

He is very important to Ireland, our best hooker IMO.

toomevara

Brewster wrote: »

! A more honest player who won't meet!

No question, a gentleman and a stalwart, but recently,at times, his throwing has been reminiscent of Stevie Wonder after a few sherbets and a stiff drag on a Cambewell carrot. The worry is always there....but superb performance tonight.

Brewster

.ak wrote: »

In fairness his throwing was all over the shop last year.

He had a few bad throws, but it was down to a shocking lineout that was organised appallingly and completely shot of confidence. The hooker always gets the blame, but it shouldn't be like this. The guy is just a top class player and has proven it once again. A hooker is always going to have a an odd bad throw, but people on here genuinely believed HE COULD NOT throw the ball period. These are the people I am referring too....

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Humble pie? His throwing was awful last season, for Ireland and the Lions. His confidence was obviously shaken. Thankfully he's back to his world class best though

Hagz

awec wrote: »

He is very important to Ireland, our best hooker IMO.

Well this statement will certainly be tested over the 6 nations anyway. A battle I'm very much looking forward to.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Brewster wrote: »

He had a few bad throws, but it was down to a shocking lineout that was organised appallingly and completely shot of confidence. The hooker always gets the blame, but it shouldn't be like this. The guy is just a top class player and has proven it once again. A hooker is always going to have a an odd bad throw, but people on here genuinely believed HE COULD NOT throw the ball period. These are the people I am referring too....

you're being pretty OTT. Best was going through an awful spell, even his form in the loose suffered. You can't blame everything on lineout organisation, Best's throwing was certainly not up to scratch last season, he'd admit it himself

Hagz

Brewster wrote: »

He had a few bad throws, but it was down to a shocking lineout that was organised appallingly and completely shot of confidence. The hooker always gets the blame, but it shouldn't be like this. The guy is just a top class player and has proven it once again. A hooker is always going to have a an odd bad throw, but people on here genuinely believed HE COULD NOT throw the ball period. These are the people I am referring too....

Ah I think you're being a little too kind to him. His throwing was really really awful last season. Not just for Ireland, but for the Lions as well. It must have been a confidence issue.

Brewster

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

you're being pretty OTT. Best was going through an awful spell, even his form in the loose suffered. You can't blame everything on lineout organisation, Best's throwing was certainly not up to scratch last season, he'd admit it himself

No, but the natural reaction of some, not all, thankfully is to blame the hooker. Of course Rory had some bad throws, but people stupidly used this as evidence to state that he couldn't thrown the ball. Period. This was rubbish. This is all I'm saying. The guy is a very very good thrower, always has been, a couple of dodgy throws last season in a malfunctioning lineout was not going to change this....

Heroditas

For the OP's sake, I hope Best keeps up this form until the end of the season.
Otherwise, this thread is in danger of being resurrected at every opportunity.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Brewster wrote: »

No, but the natural reaction of some, not all, thankfully is to blame the hooker. Of course Rory had some bad throws, but people stupidly used this as evidence to state that he couldn't thrown the ball. Period. This was rubbish. This is all I'm saying. The guy is a very very good thrower, always has been, a couple of dodgy throws last season in a malfunctioning lineout was not going to change this....

It wasn't just a couple of bad throws though. He failed to hit his man far more often than not on the Lions tour.

He had a very bad season throwing wise.

corny

Ridiculous gloating really.

Anyone with a brain knew it was just a confidence issue with Best at the back end of last season (and not just with Ireland). We're all pleased he's playing well.

Brewster

Hagz wrote: »

Ah I think you're being a little too kind to him. His throwing was really really awful last season. Not just for Ireland, but for the Lions as well. It must have been a confidence issue.

Of course it was, the lineout was falling apart for Ireland and he was getting an unfair share of the blame.

Is Rory Best a better thrower of ball today than he was two season ago. No in my opinion. The lineout just didn't work last season. End of.

Brewster

corny wrote: »

Ridiculous gloating really.

Anyone with a brain knew it was just a confidence issue with Best at the back end of last season (and not just with Ireland). We're all pleased he's playing well.

He was never going to be able to perform on the lions in the circumstances of his call up. He was being slaughtered before he even got on plane. A poor Irish lineout cost him any chance of a decent shot at starting number 2. He showed Youngs tonight he is the better player..

corny

Brewster wrote: »

Of course it was, the lineout was falling apart for Ireland and he was getting an unfair share of the blame.

So it was Irelands fault. Tell us why Rory's throwing fell apart against the Brumbies on tour then? Lions unorganised too?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Brewster wrote: »

He was never going to be able to perform on the lions in the circumstances of his call up. He was being slaughtered before he even got on plane. A poor Irish lineout cost him any chance of a decent shot at starting number 2. He showed Youngs tonight he is the better player..

ah come off it. He was in bad form, that's really all there is too it.

You can make all the excuses you like but Best was throwing poorly last season

He's a top player and thankfully he seems to be back to his best but last season was a blip

corny

Brewster wrote: »

He was never going to be able to perform on the lions in the circumstances of his call up. He was being slaughtered before he even got on plane. A poor Irish lineout cost him any chance of a decent shot at starting number 2. He showed Youngs tonight he is the better player..

Ah i'm out thats nonsense.

irishbucsfan

Who has crowned Leicester one of the best defensive lineouts in Europe?

jacothelad

Brewster wrote: »

What can you say about the big man after tonight. I read comment after comment about Rory on here criticising his lack of throwing ability from those who clearly don't understand the art of the lineout. Against one of the best defensive lineouts in Europe, boy did he deliver tonight. Yes he suffered a bit last season as part of shocking Irish lineout, but he has proven himself time and time again. One of the first names on the time sheet against Scotland in two weeks.. ! A more honest player who won't meet!

C'mon man. He has good days and bad days, some down to him and some down to l/o such as against Scotland last year. Ironically, his l/o stats in the 6Ns were superior to those of Youngs. In the Lions, the ball was almost invariable thrown to 2 or 4 by Hibbard or Youngs. They weren't prepared to take a chance. I think I read a stat that in the last Lions' game that Best played - in which he was pretty good - that he was the only hooker who threw the ball to the tail of the l/o on the tour. He was mince in the earlier games. We've seen him - or the l/o - frequently blow it when on the attack in the opponents 22 for both Ulster and Ireland. He's a great rugby player but even his mum would acknowledge that he has problems with throwing from time to time.

Fireball07

Best is a quality player, and vital for Ireland & Ulster, but he's allowed to be criticised when he plays poorly. He's not immune to bad patches, everyone has them. Playing very well atm.

LeinsterDub

One swallow doesn't make a summer nor does one great game make all the criticism of his performances incorrect

jacothelad

Fireball07 wrote: »

Best is a quality player, and vital for Ireland & Ulster, but he's allowed to be criticised when he plays poorly. He's not immune to bad patches, everyone has them. Playing very well atm.

It seems to me that he has changed his throw in to a much flatter, faster effort more akin to Fla's style. Best used to lob the ball. Certainly today and last week. he was zipping the ball in.

Thekidneybean

He does have his bad days but he always works his b*llocks off

Brewster

jacothelad wrote: »

C'mon man. He has good days and bad days, some down to him and some down to l/o such as against Scotland last year. Ironically, his l/o stats in the 6Ns were superior to those of Youngs. In the Lions, the ball was almost invariable thrown to 2 or 4 by Hibbard or Youngs. They weren't prepared to take a chance. I think I read a stat that in the last Lions' game that Best played - in which he was pretty good - that he was the only hooker who threw the ball to the tail of the l/o on the tour. He was mince in the earlier games. We've seen him - or the l/o - frequently blow it when on the attack in the opponents 22 for both Ulster and Ireland. He's a great rugby player but even his mum would acknowledge that he has problems with throwing from time to time.

I am not saying he is the best thrower of all time, of course he has his brain €&rts.. ! There were people on here who said who couldn't throw the ball period. This was wrong, this is all I am pointing out. Every player makes mistakes and I believe some of criticism was way over the top. He has secured 100% lineout stats for Ireland many many times over his many caps but accordingly to these people he couldn't throw the ball? I hope this argument is firmly put to bed..

Brewster

Fireball07 wrote: »

Best is a quality player, and vital for Ireland & Ulster, but he's allowed to be criticised when he plays poorly. He's not immune to bad patches, everyone has them. Playing very well atm.

We are in agreement. As I say, my criticism is aimed SOLELY at those who said who can't throw the ball. Clearly he CAN throw the ball but is prone to a bad throw like every other hooker out there.. There is a difference between criticising a bad performance, which is fine, and stating he couldn't throw the ball period!

marco_polo

Am I the only one who can't get Fr Teds golden cleric speech of of my head reading this thread?

Swiwi.

I'm only repeating what has already been said by more eminent posters, but in answer to the OP, I don't think anyone was "doubting" Rory, they just used their 2 eyes and saw his throwing was erratic last season. He has been superb this season so far, including an excellent - but regrettably way too short - outing against NZ. At the moment, definitely the best hooker in Ireland, and one of the best in Europe.

jacothelad

Brewster wrote: »

I am not saying he is the best thrower of all time, of course he has his brain €&rts.. ! There were people on here who said who couldn't throw the ball period. This was wrong, this is all I am pointing out. Every player makes mistakes and I believe some of criticism was way over the top. He has secured 100% lineout stats for Ireland many many times over his many caps but accordingly to these people he couldn't throw the ball? I hope this argument is firmly put to bed..

Well, as is the nature of the game, the argument is put to bed until the next set of bad throws. Even the very best throwers have off days. Fla. had the good fortune to also be throwing in to some of the best l/o operators in the world in POC and MOK. I also look at how teams set up l/o's and our teams tend to take an age. French teams usually have pretty good l/o's but usually get it over very fast with little fuss, often lifting light back row players. Makes a big difference.

pickarooney

He had the yips, and not for the first time. It's a testament to him that he's overcome it and hopefully it won't come back at the wrong time again.

Brewster

jacothelad wrote: »

Well, as is the nature of the game, the argument is put to bed until the next set of bad throws. Even the very best throwers have off days. Fla. had the good fortune to also be throwing in to some of the best l/o operators in the world in POC and MOK. I also look at how teams set up l/o's and our teams tend to take an age. French teams usually have pretty good l/o's but usually get it over very fast with little fuss, often lifting light back row players. Makes a big difference.

Absolutely, a successful lineout cannot rely on two jumpers at 4 and 5. A good defensive lineout with two good jumpers will have success against this approach.

Morf

I'm not sure what the point of this thread which seems to address the least sensible and informed posters.

Best is phenomenal in the loose and tight on form but throwing has been a weakness for him on occasion.

Had a great game tonight and well done to him.

Adding this to the list.

While drunk I will not:

Text the ex
Post on facebook
Polish Rory Bests balls

Leinstertomas

Best is a class player and has had a few below average games but with POC back now the line out should function well. Remember how great he played for those 13 minutes against New Zealand and the amount of times he's scored off the back of mauls that he's provided the ball for. I certainly wouldn't bet against him scoring a try or two in the Six Nations.

JacquesDeLad

Don't want to think about that NZ game too much but losing Rory Best probably tipped the scales against us very early in a game we should have won.

Burr10

He was rightly criticised last season, but on form he is the best hooker in the NH for me

mfceiling

I thought last year he did take an awful lot of flak for a badly performing lineout.

Especially with Ulster....the amount of attacking lineouts in the opposing 22 that were overthrown to the tail and then lost was ridiculous. I can't understand how you get into a great attacking position, and then don't take the almost guaranteed option of throwing to 2, guaranteeing possession and then working a platform from that. Instead we saw an overthrow to the tail, loss of possession and then found ourselves with a lineout on halfway.

I don't know if Best was to blame for it everytime, but a good few times the throws were miles off target.

mr_edge_to_you

In fairness, his throwing on the Lions tour was poor. But he is certainly back on form though.

Has been a great player all his career for Ireland and Ulster.

Always comes across as a gent too.

Benny Cake

This serves as a timely reminder why one should think carefully before starting a thread!

Just as Best deserves praise today, he deserved the critiscm last year.....

Brewster

Benny Cake wrote: »

This serves as a timely reminder why one should think carefully before starting a thread!


Just as Best deserves praise today, he deserved the critiscm last year.....

I didn't have to think much, the thread was aimed at those who said one of Ireland's best ever hookers couldn't throw the ball. Period. This is rubbish and Rory in seasons gone and this season has proven it to be rubbish. He is very good thrower of ball, but clearly it is not his best quality which says a lot about him as the complete hooker. Last season he struggled a bit as everyone knows, but people were too quick to judge him and lay the blame soley at his door. All this shows is a gross misunderstanding of the game and the ingredients needed for a successful lineout.

overshoot

jacothelad wrote: »

It seems to me that he has changed his throw in to a much flatter, faster effort more akin to Fla's style. Best used to lob the ball. Certainly today and last week. he was zipping the ball in.

i had been thinking he changed his throw too but hadnt been sure! cheers!

on the lineout, best had a bad year no other way to put it
the lineout was in itself also terrible which compounded it and probably increased the criticism a bit beyond what it would have been.

all the parts were broken but i think best took more than his share of the blame

awec

Just remembered Rory's clearing kick yesterday

Some boot on him!

Swiwi.

awec wrote: »

Just remembered Rory's clearing kick yesterday

Some boot on him!

To those who said he couldn't kick, have a large slice of humble pie

Brewster

Was some kick ok! Been telling you for years that he was Ireland's best hooker even in the day when Fla was around! I think there is another two to three seasons in him at the very top, not sure he will make the 100 club but you never know! How do think he will be remembered in terms of his Ireland career?

danthefan

Brewster wrote: »

Was some kick ok! Been telling you for years that he was Ireland's best hooker even in the day when Fla was around! I think there is another two to three seasons in him at the very top, not sure he will make the 100 club but you never know! How do think he will be remembered in terms of his Ireland career?

Not as our best hooker ever anyway.

This thread is ridiculous. Everyone likes Rory Best, he's a fine player, he gets plenty of credit for his good performances, he has about 70 Ireland caps. Not sure what else you want really.

Brewster

danthefan wrote: »

Not as our best hooker ever anyway.

This thread is ridiculous. Everyone likes Rory Best, he's a fine player, he gets plenty of credit for his good performances, he has about 70 Ireland caps. Not sure what else you want really.

I am not looking for anything else! Just interested in people's opinions. As I say, he hasn't always enjoyed everyone's support which has baffled me in the past..

JacquesDeLad

Rory Best has been well appreciated by most Irish rugby fans for a long time. He's not always been perfect but without doubt the best hooker in Ireland for a while now. If someone better comes along then a debate can start.