Dad's poll? Tell or push back.

Tim Robbins

This is a question for Dad's. If someone pushes your child do you say:
* Tell your kid they should push back
* Tell your kid not to push back but say something like "Stop I don't like that".

Because, to my astonishment I find the minority of Dad's say: "Stop, I don't like that" and tell their kids to push back. They usually admit this to me after a few beers.

In Mum's I notice it is nearly always to say "stop I don't like that".

clairefontaine

Ok I'm answering this because I am a mom and I am a dad. One person occupying both roles.

It depends on the age and the environment. When he was very small I'd say tell the teacher.

He has been kicked in the balls twice but some stupid little twat at recess. Obviously he cannot retaliate or he will end up in juvenile court. We are in the US and in a very politically correct jurisdiction.

So, what I tell him is he has a right to defend himself if that means physical force. However, if the teacher or recess person only sees him doing the hitting than he will get in trouble.

Tim Robbins

Interesting.

I thought everyone now said "stop, I don't like that" but it transpires very few are. I find this utterly incredible. We are teaching an eye for an eye.

freshpopcorn

Hi!
I just thought I would reply to this because I'm in my twenties now so I went to school in the 90's\00's and I was bullied and experienced other people being bullied. I tried all the telling the teacher/telling them to leave me alone and I saw other people doing this and it failed. It wasn't that the teacher's didn't care but it was your word against the bullies.
I found that the best thing to do was to fight back (when I say fight back I mean a punch/push not a big fight) and show them you weren't afraid of them. When you sort of stand up for yourself I find you show people you are not weak/ an easy target.

clairefontaine

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Hi!
I just thought I would reply to this because I'm in my twenties now so I went to school in the 90's\00's and I was bullied and experienced other people being bullied. I tried all the telling the teacher/telling them to leave me alone and I saw other people doing this and it failed. It wasn't that the teacher's didn't care but it was your word against the bullies.
I found that the best thing to do was to fight back (when I say fight back I mean a punch/push not a big fight) and show them you weren't afraid of them. When you sort of stand up for yourself I find you show people you are not weak/ an easy target.

The teachers don't do anything except say "don't do that again." No consequences.

freshpopcorn

clairefontaine wrote: »

The teachers don't do anything except say "don't do that again." No consequences.

Most teacher's did their best I have to say but without proof or somebody to back you up it was your word against the bullies.

GarIT

Hitting back is really the only option if you don't want your kids lives destroyed by bullies.

If a kid ever said "Stop, I don't like that" I'm pretty sure a few more would join in attacking them.

obplayer

I went to school in the sixties / seventies and we were very much taught the 'hit back' philosophy. Along with the idea that any adult could 'smack' a kid for, basically, anything. I won't claim that 'violence never solves anything', but it is best avoided. Today is a much gentler time for kids, long may it continue.

liliq

GarIT wrote: »

Hitting back is really the only option if you don't want your kids lives destroyed by bullies.

If a kid ever said "Stop, I don't like that" I'm pretty sure a few more would join in attacking them.

I think that really depends on the age of the kids.

I don't think there's any one answer though... With younger kids a 'stop I don't like that' can be enough but 'fu(k off' might be better for older kids.

Really any physical reaction shouldn't be the first response, but if some other kids is persistently pushing or hitting then sometimes a reaction on par with the action is the only thing that's going to get through.

Of course my kiddo is only young yet so I could change my tune quickly Enough once he's going to school

nc19

For me it would depend on the childs age

Under say 10 i would tell them to walk away and tell a teacher

Older id say fight back

Inbox

On matters I'm not sure about I usually refer back to the laws of the jungle.

efb

Walk away.

GarIT

liliq wrote: »

I think that really depends on the age of the kids.

I don't think there's any one answer though... With younger kids a 'stop I don't like that' can be enough but 'fu(k off' might be better for older kids.

Really any physical reaction shouldn't be the first response, but if some other kids is persistently pushing or hitting then sometimes a reaction on par with the action is the only thing that's going to get through.

Of course my kiddo is only young yet so I could change my tune quickly Enough once he's going to school

I agree with that completely, teaching violence is wrong but sometimes it is needed. You can't just be a pushover.

I have a relative that was on oddly on the extreme end of the not reacting scale. When it came to the kid being bullied he refused to defend himself because it would be wrong, he ended up coming home most days crying yet refused to to anything other than tell the teacher, it got to the point where his parents had no option but to punish him for any time he didn't hit back.

It's funny that I would say the scale could be seen somewhat in the opposite way in that you should get less aggressive when you get older because you can't get away with it. Punishments don't exist in primary school so the only solution I have ever seen work is responding with much more force than was used against you. For a primary school kid I would say if someone hits you once you don't stop hitting them back until you are pulled off them. For a secondary school I would say it's better to take everything as a joke and respond with a half joke half insult statement, that works to diffuse the situation most of the time.

Tim Robbins

Interesting thoughts. In my case, my son is 4 has been exposed to fair bit of pushing, shoving and dangerous grabbing around the neck.

I am sick of it all.

Thankfully, he is out of the creche and only doing the pre-school thing in the morning which seems more controller. I thought that most parents these days say "stop,I don't like that" but it turns out I am in the minority. I used to get very awkward when another kid was being rough to my kid as there might be a clash of parenting techniques but now if I see someone push or shove my kid in a way that is rough, dangerous or sinister (i.e. not fun playing) I tell the other kid to leave it out. I don't care what their parents think. There's a class of believes and values and maybe it's better to be more upfront about that and play with someone else.

RIRI

We've told our young lad (9) to say "Stop, and if you do it again I'll burst you open" Not very PC but often the bully tells on him & then the whole story comes out.

He was pushed around a bit last year, the above seems to have sorted it all out without him having to hit back.

Dravokivich

I'll do the same thing my Da did while my son's a kid. I'll teach him a couple of basic moves to block/defend and how to stand to minimise the amount of himself he's presenting, but not to attack. The important thing of course is always to keep physical scuffles to a minimum and it would be something I'd discourage. Especially between kids because it's a complete waste of their social time and has no value in it at all. But I'd want him to be able to do something for himself at the same time.

wolfpawnat

I want to give my experience even though I am a mom. One boy in my son's class has been a little shít for the lack of a politer term. Pushing him and others, spitting on them, and even taking his lunch and crushing his crackers. When I heard this I of course went to the teacher after the third day of it and calmly said what my son had told me and asked had she seen anything. She said she had noticed that boy hassling a few others, but not my son and said she would keep an eye on it. I thanked her and waited. The next day my son came home and told me the boy was at him again. I asked did muinteoir say anything, yes she had, she told him to stop and sent him to the cathair smaoineamh (thinking chair) fine, she noted it. The next day it happened again and the same outcome, so I decided to go to the teacher and see what the full story was.

She told me that my son had not instigated anything and just told her if the boy was hurting him. I then told the teacher that I had given my son permission to defend himself and that regardless of school policy, if this boy kept at him, that he had to show he was not going to be a pushover, and that if he let the boy push him around, he would go through the whole 8 years of school seeing him as a pushover, and I'll be damned if some brat with no rearing would ruin my son's love of school! I think I startled her slightly. I had been patient, as had my son, and it is critical to teach restraint, but fúck it, that only goes so far!

I will put my hand on my heart, if I was told my son was the bully, I would near kill him. All his toys would be taken away for at least a month and he would have to apologise to the child and their parents. If the school came to me and told me that he was like that, I wouldn't deny it or brush it off as other parents do. I would listen.

Schools are tied by regulations these days and parents who will not accept their kids are capable of doing bold things and will not address issues are to blame IMO.

clairefontaine

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I want to give my experience even though I am a mom. One boy in my son's class has been a little shít for the lack of a politer term. Pushing him and others, spitting on them, and even taking his lunch and crushing his crackers. When I heard this I of course went to the teacher after the third day of it and calmly said what my son had told me and asked had she seen anything. She said she had noticed that boy hassling a few others, but not my son and said she would keep an eye on it. I thanked her and waited. The next day my son came home and told me the boy was at him again. I asked did muinteoir say anything, yes she had, she told him to stop and sent him to the cathair smaoineamh (thinking chair) fine, she noted it. The next day it happened again and the same outcome, so I decided to go to the teacher and see what the full story was.

She told me that my son had not instigated anything and just told her if the boy was hurting him. I then told the teacher that I had given my son permission to defend himself and that regardless of school policy, if this boy kept at him, that he had to show he was not going to be a pushover, and that if he let the boy push him around, he would go through the whole 8 years of school seeing him as a pushover, and I'll be damned if some brat with no rearing would ruin my son's love of school! I think I startled her slightly. I had been patient, as had my son, and it is critical to teach restraint, but fúck it, that only goes so far!

I will put my hand on my heart, if I was told my son was the bully, I would near kill him. All his toys would be taken away for at least a month and he would have to apologise to the child and their parents. If the school came to me and told me that he was like that, I wouldn't deny it or brush it off as other parents do. I would listen.

Schools are tied by regulations these days and parents who will not accept their kids are capable of doing bold things and will not address issues are to blame IMO.

Give it a year and that boy is going to have some kind of special needs diagnosis that gets him off the hook.

wexie

clairefontaine wrote: »

Give it a year and that boy is going to have some kind of special needs diagnosis that gets him off the hook.

yeah :mad:

not a parenting problem

never just a parenting problem :mad:

clairefontaine

wexie wrote: »

yeah :mad:

not a parenting problem

never just a parenting problem :mad:

I dont know what it is, but it's not right. Personally I think its middle class wishy washy BS.

Anyone who grows up in a tough neighborhood knows, "Stop it or I'll tell" isn't going to stop it.

wolfpawnat

clairefontaine wrote: »

Give it a year and that boy is going to have some kind of special needs diagnosis that gets him off the hook.

If there was a special needs problem it would be something, although my son had a terrible time in preschool because of a special needs boy that was not corrected either. SN does not permit free reign, those kids need to be made behave too, just perhaps with more patience or different methods.

wexie wrote: »

yeah :mad:

not a parenting problem

never just a parenting problem :mad:

A child doesn't sit still at 4yo for 10 minutes and suddenly it has ADHD! I mean, there are kids with it of course, but not every child with a bit of energy has it. Parents really are either obsessed with not accepting blame for their kids these days, or we, as a society have become obsessed with labelling each and every child.

And I am sure if I were to be called in with the childs parents, he would simply be a 5yo version of them. Bullies who need a good dose of cop on! Either that or parents who just don't give a damn. Not sure which is worse!

wexie

clairefontaine wrote: »

I dont know what it is, but it's not right. Personally I think its middle class wishy washy BS.

Anyone who grows up in a tough neighborhood knows, "Stop it or I'll tell" isn't going to stop it.

I think it's a lot of lazy parents who are handed a nice and easy way to absolve themselves of the responsibility to turn their kids into decent adults.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that there aren't kids out there with conditions that would make them harder to deal with. I happen to know some of them and they are great kids, the parents however have to be very strict with them to keep them in check, it takes more work rather than less. Lots lots more.

Sleepy

I've always taught them to hit back because that's what worked for me in school. Having moved across the country twice, I got stick for having a different accent in the schools I moved into. The first time I was 7 and I'd been raised to tell teacher but social pressure about not being a tell-tale meant I didn't at the time. I was a soft target and when I started secondary school I got a few hidings until I eventually fought back and split the ringleader's lip with a lucky punch in a five on one "pile on". When they left me alone after that I copped on that it was hitting back that had finally gotten them off my back. They still didn't like me but they knew I wasn't easy meat any more.

When I moved across the country again, I punched the first bully who started pushing me around and, while nobody could say I "won" the fight, I again had got lucky and managed to split his lip, and possibly more importantly: I'd escalated his pushes to throwing the first punch. I won't say I was never teased or picked on again in that school (as a fast learner who genuinely enjoyed some of my classes I was always going to be a target in a society where some are taught that intelligence or education are to be treated with scorn and distrust) but no-one in that school ever raised a fist to me again and that first scrap had me left alone until after my Junior Cert when our classes changed around a bit.

When Rory was just turned 4 a few of the kids from our road were playing in the sand pit we had set up in the back garden at the time and one of them who was a bit notorious for pushing the others around at the time started throwing sand at her. The first time she was told to "stop that", the second she was told "Mammy says that's not allowed", the third she found herself on the receiving end of a three punch combo from a child half her size and all the other children laughing at her. My wife saw it all happening through the kitchen window and almost wet herself laughing.

I couldn't have been prouder of her: she instinctively knew when to stand up for herself. She knows she's not allowed to hit other children and I've never seen her do it but honestly I'd much rather get called into school because she ended a fight another child started than to be called in after months of bullying was finally discovered by the teachers because she'd been too afraid to stand up for herself.

wexie

Sleepy wrote: »

but honestly I'd much rather get called into school because she ended a fight another child started than to be called in after months of bullying was finally discovered by the teachers because she'd been too afraid to stand up for herself.

+1 and very well put