Munster vs Edinburgh, Sun 19 Jan 12:45pm; Sky Sports

thomond2006

Munster:
15. Felix Jones; 14. Keith Earls, 13. Casey Laulala, 12. James Downey, 11. Johne Murphy; 10. Ian Keatley, 9. Conor Murray;
1. Dave Kilcoyne, 2. Damien Varley, 3. Stephen Archer, 4. Dave Foley, 5. Paul O'Connell, 6. Peter O'Mahony (c), 7. Tommy O'Donnell, 8. James Coughlan

Replacements: 16. Duncan Casey, 17. James Cronin, 18. BJ Botha, 19. Donncha O'Callaghan, 20. Paddy Butler, 21. Duncan Williams, 22. JJ Hanrahan, 23. Simon Zebo

Edinburgh:
15. Jack Cuthbert; 14. Douglas Fife, 13. Nick De Luca, 12. Ben Atiga, 11. Tom Brown; 10. Greig Tonks, 9. Greig Laidlaw (c);
1. Alasdair Dickinson, 2. Ross Ford, 3. Willem Nel, 4. Grant Gilchrist, 5. Izak Van Der Westhuizen, 6. Cornell Du Preez, 7. Roddy Grant, 8. David Denton

Replacements: 16. Aleki Lutui, 17. Lodewicus Blaauw, 18. Geoff Cross, 19. Ollie Atkins, 20. Tomas Leonardi, 21. Grayson Hart, 22. Carl Bezuidenhout, 23. Joaquin Dominguez

Munster need to at least equal Leinster's result against the Ospreys to ensure they finish above Leinster in the qualification rankings. The home quarter-final isn't in our own hands as we will rely on one of Clermont, Toulon or Toulouse losing in order to finish with a top 4 ranking. The most likely of those sides losing is Toulon whose away form has been questionable this season as they face a trip to Glasgow on Saturday. Alternatively if Munster win with a bonus point and Clermont do not, then Munster can get a home quarter-final.

Edinburgh's recent results have not been too shabby and they come to Limerick under little pressure to come away with a result. There will be an air of revenge for Munster following their shock loss in Edinburgh back in October which has meant the odds of Munster achieving a home quarter final are quite low.

former legend

Munster with no BP

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster need to at least equal Leinster's result against the Ospreys to ensure they finish above Leinster in the qualification rankings. The home quarter-final isn't in our own hands as we will rely on one of Clermont, Toulon or Toulouse losing in order to finish with a top 4 ranking. The most likely of those sides losing is Toulon whose away form has been questionable this season as they face a trip to Glasgow on Saturday.

If Munster win with a BP and Clermont win without one, then Munster still finish ahead of Clermont and get a home QF.

thomond2006

former legend wrote: »

If Munster win with a BP and Clermont win without one, then Munster still finish ahead of Clermont and get a home QF.

I knew I was forgetting something, thanks!

Rightwing

I struggle to see Munster get a BP. In fact, last time we were in this position, we lost our home game to the tigers.

.ak

Rightwing wrote: »

I struggle to see Munster get a BP. In fact, last time we were in this position, we lost our home game to the tigers.

Ah c'mon, it's Edinburgh, in Thomond park?

Rightwing

.ak wrote: »

Ah c'mon, it's Edinburgh, in Thomond park?

Won't be as easy as some think, bookies have it around 17pt handicap. This is too big. Edinburgh have something to play for, they got a result at Kingsholm.

awec

Rightwing wrote: »

Won't be as easy as some think, bookies have it around 17pt handicap. This is too big. Edinburgh have something to play for, they got a result at Kingsholm.

By the time you play on Sunday they'll likely have nothing to play for, no?

.ak

Rightwing wrote: »

Won't be as easy as some think, bookies have it around 17pt handicap. This is too big. Edinburgh have something to play for, they got a result at Kingsholm.

Aren't you an advocate for the bookies always getting it right?

Edinburgh have the ability to turn teams in Scotland, but outside of their they fall to pieces. They're wallowing at the bottom of the league for a reason. Munster should crush them. -17 is a good bet IMO.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

awec wrote: »

By the time you play on Sunday they'll likely have nothing to play for, no?

not a hope Edinburgh will have anything to play for come 12:45 on Sunday

former legend

Munster with no BP

Rightwing wrote: »

I struggle to see Munster get a BP. In fact, last time we were in this position, we lost our home game to the tigers.

What about round six last year? Munster went in knowing they needed a BP and absolutely cantered home. I'd say Edinburgh are closer to that Racing side than they are to the Leicester team of 2007 that went on to reach the final.

A BP is well within Munster's grasp here.

Edit: just copped that I'm an option in the poll. Why is no-one voting for me?

awec

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

not a hope Edinburgh will have anything to play for come 12:45 on Sunday

Exactly.

Munster should be battering this team.

thomond2006

former legend wrote: »

Edit: just copped that I'm an option in the poll. Why is no-one voting for me?

Rightwing

former legend wrote: »

What about round six last year? Munster went in knowing they needed a BP and absolutely cantered home. I'd say Edinburgh are closer to that Racing side than they are to the Leicester team of 2007 that went on to reach the final.

A BP is well within Munster's grasp here.

Edit: just copped that I'm an option in the poll. Why is no-one voting for me?

Edinburgh are more used to TP than Racing, they were rubble, and still are.

It should be, but Munster aren't great at picking up winning BPs. The top 3 French sides would certainly get it, not sure Munster will do it.

.ak

former legend wrote: »

Edit: just copped that I'm an option in the poll. Why is no-one voting for me?

Form call, sorry.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

Edinburgh are more used to TP than Racing, they were rubble, and still are.

It should be, but Munster aren't great at picking up winning BPs. The top 3 French sides would certainly get it, not sure Munster will do it.

You really saying Edinburgh are better than Racing?!

Suppose you also categorically said Munster would lose last week so I'll take your prediction that as a good sign

phog

A win is vital but a BP win is what Munster need to aim for regardless of how other results go.

Munster may have left a home q/f fall from our grasp by the loss in Edinburgh but I think Munster need to close the pool games out with a BP win.

.ak

I forgot to look at the pools, but Munster are still qualified right?

phog

.ak wrote: »

I forgot to look at the pools, but Munster are still qualified right?

Yes, we are into the knockout games.

Rightwing

phog wrote: »

Yes, we are into the knockout games.

There could be complacency like there was v the tigers in 07. I'd prefer if were not yet in the q/f.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

There could be complacency like there was v the tigers in 07. I'd prefer if were not yet in the q/f.

this makes no sense

thomond2006

But Leicester had something to play for in 07 didn't they? Edinburgh most likely won't by Sunday. Plus that was 7 years ago! Why is it even being brought up?!

As for complacency? It's a non-factor considering we effed up over there and want to hammer them in response.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

But Leicester had something to play for in 07 didn't they? Edinburgh most likely won't by Sunday. Plus that was 7 years ago! Why is it even being brought up?!

As for complacency? It's a non-factor considering we effed up over there and want to hammer them in response.

Munster may not be the powerhouse they once were but beating Munster in the Heineken Cup in Thomond Park is a big scalp for any club. Dismiss Edinburgh at your peril.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Munster may not be the powerhouse they once were but beating Munster in the Heineken Cup in Thomond Park is a big scalp for any club. Dismiss Edinburgh at your peril.

I'm not dismissing them, if anything I'm giving them more respect. Not being complacement = respect

The "want to hammer them" point is simply meaning that Munster will want to play for 80 and not rest even if the BP is already in the bag. They fecked up our quarter final?! Let's bury them if we can.

Rightwing

phog wrote: »

Munster may not be the powerhouse they once were but beating Munster in the Heineken Cup in Thomond Park is a big scalp for any club. Dismiss Edinburgh at your peril.

This is the angle I'd be taking too, a win here makes Edinburgh's season.

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

But Leicester had something to play for in 07 didn't they? Edinburgh most likely won't by Sunday. Plus that was 7 years ago! Why is it even being brought up?!

As for complacency? It's a non-factor considering we effed up over there and want to hammer them in response.

If Leicester lost that game they were out, by winning it they finished as pool winners and got a home QF.

Mahatma Geansai

Munster team:

Jones;
Earls ,Laulala ,Downey, Murphy;
Keatley, Murray;
Kilcoyne, Varley, Archer;
Foley, POC;
POM Capt.,TOD,Coughlan

Replacements: Duncan Casey, James Cronin, BJ Botha, Donncha O’Callaghan, Paddy Butler, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Simon Zebo

thomond2006

Butler in for CJ on the bench the only change?

Edit: Archer in for Botha too

ssaye2

15. Jack Cuthbert; 14. Douglas Fife, 13. Nick De Luca, 12. Ben Atiga, 11. Tom Brown; 10. Greig Tonks, 9. Greig Laidlaw (c); 1. Alasdair Dickinson, 2. Ross Ford, 3. Willem Nel, 4. Grant Gilchrist, 5. Izak Van Der Westhuizen, 6. Cornell Du Preez, 7. Roddy Grant, 8. David Denton
16. Aleki Lutui, 17. Lodewicus Blaauw, 18. Geoff Cross, 19. Ollie Atkins, 20. Tomas Leonardi, 21. Grayson Hart, 22. Carl Bezuidenhout, 23. Joaquin Dominguez

thomond2006

Tonks is normally a fullback no?

former legend

Munster with no BP

thomond2006 wrote: »

Tonks is normally a fullback no?

Very much so. Played OH against Leinster and did OK though.

phog

ssaye2 wrote: »

15. Jack Cuthbert; 14. Douglas Fife, 13. Nick De Luca, 12. Ben Atiga, 11. Tom Brown; 10. Greig Tonks, 9. Greig Laidlaw (c); 1. Alasdair Dickinson, 2. Ross Ford, 3. Willem Nel, 4. Grant Gilchrist, 5. Izak Van Der Westhuizen, 6. Cornell Du Preez, 7. Roddy Grant, 8. David Denton
16. Aleki Lutui, 17. Lodewicus Blaauw, 18. Geoff Cross, 19. Ollie Atkins, 20. Tomas Leonardi, 21. Grayson Hart, 22. Carl Bezuidenhout, 23. Joaquin Dominguez

They're certainly not throwing in the towel with that selection but they're without Visser who is a try scorer.

who_me

We should win this relatively comfortably, but I think the Pro12 sides are more used to each others' games, and can negate them more effectively.

But it's hard to know what we need from this game. Getting into the top 4 seeds is the only carrot, and even a winning BP might not be enough. If we don't make it, it doesn't really matter where we are from 5-8. There might be a situation where losing the game would be better, in order to avoid a tough trip to the south of France. So you can't really say this is a "must win" game.

vienne86

Munster with no BP

I will be astonished if this isn't a comfortable bonus point win for Munster on Sunday.

Foxtrol

Munster with no BP

I’ve said this before but at times you’d swear some fans fear that saying their side should thump the opposition at the weekend will somehow get back to the players and they’ll become complacent. Professional players shouldn’t need to build up the opposition or be underdogs in order to perform, they should be able to handle being strong favourites.

Anything except a bonus point win would be a very poor showing by Munster.

Cookiemunster

Munster with no BP

Foxtrol wrote: »

I’ve said this before but at times you’d swear some fans fear that saying their side should thump the opposition at the weekend will somehow get back to the players and they’ll become complacent. Professional players shouldn’t need to build up the opposition or be underdogs in order to perform, they should be able to handle being strong favourites.

Anything except a bonus point win would be a very poor showing by Munster.

If you think it's bad here, you should take a look at munsterfans. If you mention the letters B and P on there you'll get lynched.

MongotheBongo

Edinburgh are a very tricky side and they'll be completely up for this game considering their opening round victory. They've some absolutely lethal players that can cut teams to shreds when they click. It wasn't so long ago that these guys were semi finalists and they are capable of beating any team on their day.

Don't look at their Rabo position, this is going to be one of the toughest fixtures in this round of the competition. Two massive packs going head to head on what could be the game of the competition.

If Munster can beat Edinburgh with a bonus point it will go down as close to being one of the all time great matches.

First we must concentrate on getting the win however.

jamiedav2011

MongotheBongo wrote: »

Edinburgh are a very tricky side and they'll be completely up for this game considering their opening round victory. They've some absolutely lethal players that can cut teams to shreds when they click. It wasn't so long ago that these guys were semi finalists and they are capable of beating any team on their day.

Don't look at their Rabo position, this is going to be one of the toughest fixtures in this round of the competition. Two massive packs going head to head on what could be the game of the competition.

If Munster can beat Edinburgh with a bonus point it will go down as close to being one of the all time great matches.

First we must concentrate on getting the win however.

I like the cut of your jib Mongo.

Have you ever heard of 'MunsterMicko' by any chance? You'd like him I'd say.

thomond2006

MongotheBongo wrote: »

Edinburgh are a very tricky side and they'll be completely up for this game considering their opening round victory. They've some absolutely lethal players that can cut teams to shreds when they click. It wasn't so long ago that these guys were semi finalists and they are capable of beating any team on their day.

Don't look at their Rabo position, this is going to be one of the toughest fixtures in this round of the competition. Two massive packs going head to head on what could be the game of the competition.

If Munster can beat Edinburgh with a bonus point it will go down as close to being one of the all time great matches.

First we must concentrate on getting the win however.

Just about resisted bursting out laughing!

I don't quite agree on that one Mongo! Edinburgh are pretty rubbish and the semi-final run turned out to be a one-off.

.ak

If Edinburgh beat Munster in TP it might go down as one of the greatest matches ever... For Edinburgh.

If Munster get a bp it'll be as expected.

Foxtrol

Munster with no BP

MongotheBongo wrote: »

Edinburgh are a very tricky side and they'll be completely up for this game considering their opening round victory. They've some absolutely lethal players that can cut teams to shreds when they click. It wasn't so long ago that these guys were semi finalists and they are capable of beating any team on their day.

Don't look at their Rabo position, this is going to be one of the toughest fixtures in this round of the competition. Two massive packs going head to head on what could be the game of the competition.

If Munster can beat Edinburgh with a bonus point it will go down as close to being one of the all time great matches.

First we must concentrate on getting the win however.

You're a gift that keeps on giving.

Are you Mike Sherry by any chance? He was likening the win against the Metro seconds at this stage last year to the 'Miracle Match'.

Rightwing

.ak wrote: »

If Edinburgh beat Munster in TP it might go down as one of the greatest matches ever... For Edinburgh.

If Munster get a bp it'll be as expected.

That sums it up, it would have to be regarded as Edinburgh's finest hour. The sad reality is sides like ospreys, edinburgh are doing nothing more than making up the numbers in this competition, that said they may pull off the very odd shock like Connacht did in Toulouse.

who_me

Foxtrol wrote: »

I’ve said this before but at times you’d swear some fans fear that saying their side should thump the opposition at the weekend will somehow get back to the players and they’ll become complacent. Professional players shouldn’t need to build up the opposition or be underdogs in order to perform, they should be able to handle being strong favourites.

Anything except a bonus point win would be a very poor showing by Munster.

And yet the psychology of the sport is important. Leinster went to Franklin gardens and gave the Saints a spanking, and then at home the following weekend they couldn't even get a bonus point. That shouldn't really happen if everyone were so coldly professional.

Rightwing

who_me wrote: »

And yet the psychology of the sport is important. Leinster went to Franklin gardens and gave the Saints a spanking, and then at home the following weekend they couldn't even get a bonus point. That shouldn't really happen if everyone were so coldly professional.

That's it nailed on.

Cookiemunster

Munster with no BP

who_me wrote: »

And yet the psychology of the sport is important. Leinster went to Franklin gardens and gave the Saints a spanking, and then at home the following weekend they couldn't even get a bonus point. That shouldn't really happen if everyone were so coldly professional.

That's true, but what anonymous fans say on internet forums, has absolutely no influence on the players psychology.
Some people seem to think that someone on here saying that a team will win easily is going to have an effect on the players attitude. Which it ridiculous.

Rightwing

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That's true, but what anonymous fans say on internet forums, has absolutely no influence on the players psychology.
Some people seem to think that someone on here saying that a team will win easily is going to have an effect on the players attitude. Which it ridiculous.

Let's just say I seriously doubt that very much.

Foxtrol

Munster with no BP

who_me wrote: »

And yet the psychology of the sport is important. Leinster went to Franklin gardens and gave the Saints a spanking, and then at home the following weekend they couldn't even get a bonus point. That shouldn't really happen if everyone were so coldly professional.

Some games players just don’t turn up and I think both sides had one game of that back to back series when that was the case. I really don’t think in either game the losing side looked past the opposition and were complacent.

There are games when teams are in the position that they’re underdogs, when their backs are in the corner, or when there’s a backlash after a poor performance and that’s fine and should definitely be used to help performance but the point I was making is that there’s an element in Irish rugby, both provincial and national and from coaches right down to fans, who seem to need to manufacture the impression of one of those situations being the case in every game in order to get a performance. This in my opinion is a lazy psychology to try to employ, generates a small team attitude and makes it more difficult to win competitions in the long term.

who_me

Foxtrol wrote: »

There are games when teams are in the position that they’re underdogs, when their backs are in the corner, or when there’s a backlash after a poor performance and that’s fine and should definitely be used to help performance but the point I was making is that there’s an element in Irish rugby, both provincial and national and from coaches right down to fans, who seem to need to manufacture the impression of one of those situations being the case in every game in order to get a performance. This in my opinion is a lazy psychology to try to employ, generates a small team attitude and makes it more difficult to win competitions in the long term.

Certainly, we Irish do love being underdogs, and using that to 'up' our performance.

But I don't think that's really what's happening in this case. No one's suggesting that Munster are the underdogs, just that Edinburgh shouldn't be underestimated and Munster need to be on their game. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that.

Foxtrol

Munster with no BP

who_me wrote: »

Certainly, we Irish do love being underdogs, and using that to 'up' our performance.

But I don't think that's really what's happening in this case. No one's suggesting that Munster are the underdogs, just that Edinburgh shouldn't be underestimated and Munster need to be on their game. I don't think there's anything really wrong with that.

I think the constant need to make the opposition out to be better than they are for fear your side wont perform is an issue as if this fake praise is actually necessary for the side to put in a performance as it means the team is mentally weak. There’s no problem with showing respect for the opposition but it should be clear to most people that Munster are superior, playing at home and should win this game with a bonus point. They're a better team and that should be the expectation.

Rightwing

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think the constant need to make the opposition out to be better than they are for fear your side wont perform is an issue as if this fake praise is actually necessary for the side to put in a performance as it means the team is mentally weak. There’s no problem with showing respect for the opposition but it should be clear to most people that Munster are superior, playing at home and should win this game with a bonus point. They're a better team and that should be the expectation.

It sounds rather arrogant to me just to completely dismiss Edinburgh.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

It sounds rather arrogant to me just to completely dismiss Edinburgh.

You said about three posts ago they're just here to make up the numbers.....

Buer

Former Legend

Rightwing wrote: »

It sounds rather arrogant to me just to completely dismiss Edinburgh.

Which doesn't tally whatsoever with what Foxtrol said. Being expectant of victory and knowing you're a better side while having respect for the other side is in no way arrogant or dismissive.