How to go about finding a new home for a horse whose number is now up

emmabrighton

Hi Everyone,

Sorry in advance to the mods if this thread is inappropriate...

I am looking to rehome a horse. My fiance has decided to cull his herd of mares. He has 2 that he is going to send to the factory. But I think one of them has a good chance of a forever home because she is broken. She is 7 and only 15 hands. She is a pet around humans and I know that she would make someone very happy. He told me he would be happy to give her away, he just can't afford to feed her. We actually rescued her and her mom from the factory 7 years ago but now he cant afford to feed them any more. Her mom is an old lady so has very little time left anyway but she has a full life ahead of her if she can find the right home.

I was thinking that she would do well in a riding school or as a trail horse or just as a companion because, like I said she is 100% around humans.

The thing is I am afraid someone would take her for free and then sell her on to the factory themselves. I would rather she was brought to horsey heaven with people she knew than handing her over to strangers to do that. But obviously a home in a riding school being fed carrots after every lesson would be my favourite option...

If anyone has any ideas, can you pm me?

ailbheg

Have you tried contacting local riding schools to see if any of them are looking for horses? I've seen ads on facebook from time to time. You'd have to be happy to let her go there for a trial though.

Ave Sodalis

To deter people buying just to send her to the factory, have you considered selling her at a little over factory cost? Or, as suggested above, ring around riding schools or look for good owners, if you want to give her away for free.

emmabrighton

sup_dude wrote: »

To deter people buying just to send her to the factory, have you considered selling her at a little over factory cost? Or, as suggested above, ring around riding schools or look for good owners, if you want to give her away for free.

Well, I was thinking that but then I dont want to rule out genuine people who would not pay 500+ for the horse. Like I said, I know a 7 year old Argentinus who has been jumped to 130m who is being sold for 3500.

What chance does a 7yo black cob of making 500?

Ringing the riding schools idea is a good one. I will ring some at lunch.

Kevhog1988

I might be interested. Ill be honest and tell you id be buying her to make her into a hunter and eventually sell on but I've never sent a horse to the factory.

emmabrighton

theemigrant wrote: »

I might be interested. Ill be honest and tell you id be buying her to make her into a hunter and eventually sell on but I've never sent a horse to the factory.

Thanks for the honesty, pm sent

monflat

There are a group of people advertising on dine deal who take on horses from suitstions like yours and rehome them after putting work into them. I think they are based in Louth or somewhere

fits

Try slieve aughty. They keep lots of cobs like that. Their main business is tourism. People come to do language courses, organic gardening and riding. id have no qualms about leaving a horse there. ( I brought mine on holiday there last summer)

Cvs

Hi I would be interested

convert

Guys, just a reminder that we can't facilitate people looking to buy/sell or take horses on loan.

Jen Pigs Fly

I'm more interested in the old horse ... Sent you a pm, think it's a shame to send an old horse to a factory imagine the stress on the poor old girl ...

fits

Not that much more stressful than going to a show or a sales and over before they know it. Keeping hungry, uncared for animals alive for the sake of it is worse. They need feed, feet done, teeth done. All costs money.

emmabrighton

Hi Everyone,

Just to keep you updated. I went to a party over the weekend where a wealthy relative gave me money to spend on myself as a Christmas present. I am pretty sure that he meant buy clothes or a holiday or something.

I wont tell him I spent it on fodder for the above girls...

So their sentence has been commuted for the time being. Thanks so much to everyone who left their comments. I was blubbing like a baby reading them.

I agree wholeheartedly that buying the animal in the first place is the cheapest part of owning a horse and animal husbandry costs are on going. Thank you all for your responses

I will be in touch with those of you who PM'ed me.

mariannewims

Aw! That's wonderful those 2 girls have had a reprieve!

Thank the gods for wealthy relatives, I could do with one myself!
Fair play for using it to feed these horses. Hopefully that'll buy enough time for the weather and grass to improve and you can keep an eye on yards looking to take on more in time.
Happy ending

mystika121

fits wrote: »

Not that much more stressful than going to a show or a sales

I think that is true if the horse is used to travelling and the owner takes them but for an older horse who perhaps has spent a long time in the one place then I imagine it is very stressful especially if they are on a lorry for a long time with many other horses.

whupdedo

I realise they have been reprieved for now but when/if the time comes, have you thought about getting your local vet to put them down with an injection in their home environment in a place where they are used to, I know it would be hard for you but at least they wouldn't have the discomfort and stress of travelling and factory.

convert

mystika121 wrote: »

I think that is true if the horse is used to travelling and the owner takes them but for an older horse who perhaps has spent a long time in the one place then I imagine it is very stressful especially if they are on a lorry for a long time with many other horses.

If the owner brings the horses to the factory themselves, then the travelling should not bring any extra stress, even if they haven't travelled for a while.

I think one of the cruellest things to do is to keep an old horse who has a diminishing quality of life or has arthritis. I know someone who kept their old horse because they didn't want to put them down - the horse had severe arthritis for many years, was restricted to a stable and became blind, and had problems eating. For me, that is much more stressful for the horse than being put down humanely.

OP, I'm sorry to hear that you've found yourself in the position you're in, and I'm glad to hear that you're using the unexpected income to keep the horses for the time being, but it should give you some breathing space to look into all options for the 2 horses and you and fiancé can find the best outcome for the horses.

emmabrighton

whupdedo wrote: »

I realise they have been reprieved for now but when/if the time comes, have you thought about getting your local vet to put them down with an injection in their home environment in a place where they are used to, I know it would be hard for you but at least they wouldn't have the discomfort and stress of travelling and factory.

I am responding to this message because I myself am not clear. My OH was talking to a vet over the weekend and she said the most humane way for a horse to be put down is in the factory.

I don't know the ins and outs of it but (dont read if you are squeamish) -

They don't get to see the other horses being pts and when it is their turn they are dead before they know it. There is some sort of gun or explosive that literally blows their brain away and destroys the spinal cord. This means they are dead before they hit the ground.

On the other hand, she said a vet doing it can go two ways. Peacefully or...

It sounds a bit like a lethal injection in prison or something. They are given a sedative to make them lie down and they can't move. Then they are given the second injection which can cause them to die. Sometimes they experience air starvation as their lungs cant take in oxygen and then even when they are sedated they panic and start thrashing. You can see this and this would upset you but the horse will go through the panic of not being able to catch his breath in the last moments of its life.

Does anyone else know if this is true?

convert

Vets also have a special human killer (read: gun) which they use to put down horses. If you didn't want to go to a factory with them, that could also be an option? It's also instant.

fits

emmabrighton wrote: »

I am responding to this message because I myself am not clear. My OH was talking to a vet over the weekend and she said the most humane way for a horse to be put down is in the factory.


Does anyone else know if this is true?

vets can use humane killer too but a lot of people are averse to.it. I have heard of injections going badly as well.

Re the factory issue, you can bring horse yourself. of course its not all sunshine and butterflies but it shouldn't be overly stressful and is over in seconds.

whupdedo

Going back to my post, i was drawing on experience of when a neighbor had to put down a mare he had for years that he didn't want to factory because of sentimental reasons, it was the humane killer the vet used and it was literally over in seconds, i can see why some people don't want to be around when it happens, but it is 1 way around it, either way it's no easy decision, I keep horses myself and I fully understand where you're coming from, i wish you all the luck with them in the future

mystika121

In my experience the injection is the preferred option. The best way is for a sedative to be given first. This helps to prevent an adverse reaction. The horse is still standing and is then given an injection and then drops down slowly - similar of course to anesthesia.

I have seen the humane killer go badly wrong at a point to point. The horse was shot, fell down heavily and a few moments passed and he got to his feet again. He had to be re-shot. I don't go to point to points anymore!

I feel that as owners we have a responsibility to be there for them at the end. If finances allow I think it is much better to have the vet come out to do the procedure.

For myself, although it was hard to do I was glad I was there for them at the end. At least I know exactly how their lives ended. I would have imagined it to have been much worse than it actually was.

convert

mystika121 wrote: »

I have seen the humane killer go badly wrong at a point to point. The horse was shot, fell down heavily and a few moments passed and he got to his feet again. He had to be re-shot. I don't go to point to points anymore!

I know this is going ridiculously off topic, but in fairness, that is a ridiculous reason not to go to a point-to-point anymore. It wasn't the organisers' fault, or anything to do with the point-to-point. It was the responsibility of the vet. I've heard of problems with animals being put down out hunting (the vet miss calculated the size of the horse and didn't give enough anaesthesia) and I'm sure the same happens with smaller animals occasionally. If it was me, I just wouldn't use the vet again, but I wouldn't not go to a point-to-point. At least there was a vet onsite, which cannot be said for hunter trials, unfortunately!

mystika121

convert wrote: »

I know this is going ridiculously off topic, but in fairness, that is a ridiculous reason not to go to a point-to-point anymore.

That's my decision! It wouldn't have been the only thing to put me off them but it was the final straw.

byhookorbycrook

I had to have my old guy destroyed. In retrospect, I should have done so 6 months earlier, but there was a lot going on in my life and I didn't want to think of it. He was destroyed by injection and it was grand. The worst part was trying to get him out to the yard.
I am now very much against "retiring" horses. I know of one case where a horse was turned out and actually starved to death as she had no teeth towards the end. If a horse has come to the stage where they cannot do even light work, do the decent thing and let them go.

mystika121

I think it's lovely to give a horse a decent retirement once they are free from injury and are still enjoying themselves.

Sometimes people do forget that aged horses won't look like they did when they were 7! A friend retired a horse and got nothing but comments from people who thought the horse should have been dispatched. Yes, they can lose muscle along their back, get a pot belly, look a bit thin over their ribs, be stiffer after lying down and need more attention to their teeth. However, if the horse is happy overall and funds allow then they should be allowed to enjoy themselves.

convert

The problem is finding the fine line between knowing when the horse needs to be put down on humane grounds. Of course older horses don't look like they did when they were 7, but a horse who is growing thinner and losing condition, and is not putting condition, despite careful attention and feeding, should not be kept alive for emotional grounds, especially if they're getting stiffer - it suggests that arthritis is setting in. If we speak to humans who have arthritis, they can tell you how painful it can be, even if it's only minor, and how damp and/or cold weather can effect it. The same can be said for horses, so we have to bear in mind that, even though they may seem happy and content, it is often kinder to put them down before they get to a stage where it becomes imperative to have them put down.

mystika121

convert wrote: »

The problem is finding the fine line between knowing when the horse needs to be put down on humane grounds

That is of course a fine line but anyone who is in tune with their horse will know when the time is right. A veterinary opinion is always helpful at this stage and the owner can know that they have made the right decision for their horse.

Rips

mystika121 wrote: »

In my experience the injection is the preferred option. The best way is for a sedative to be given first. This helps to prevent an adverse reaction. The horse is still standing and is then given an injection and then drops down slowly - similar of course to anaesthesia.

I think the injection is less distressing for the owner, but not necessarily the horse. Even if they go down slowly and peacefully they can still be somewhat conscious. Having seen a horse who was weak and dying of shock, fighting for life while vet refilled syringe, its not something I'd ever choose for my horse. It depends what is wrong with the animal as well. I have had several vets confess that they themselves would not choose it for their own animal.

Obviously a horse in a situation like after falling or breaking a leg at a P2P is going to be a distressing situation to deal with, whatever method.

I had a horse put down by animal collection last year with a penetrating captive bolt gun. I was really impressed with the service. It is instant and not even loud. My horse has his head in a bucket of food and never even saw it coming.

I have no problem with the factory, and have experience of this as well, but for my own horse, I felt €100 was a small price to pay to have him put down at home, in his own surroundings with his head in a bucket of feed. That price included disposal, I didn't watch obviously, but it took all of 10mins to get him loaded and away.

Ave Sodalis

Rips wrote: »

I think the injection is less distressing for the owner, but not necessarily the horse. Even if they go down slowly and peacefully they can still be somewhat conscious. Having seen a horse who was weak and dying of shock, fighting for life while vet refilled syringe, its not something I'd ever choose for my horse. It depends what is wrong with the animal as well. I have had several vets confess that they themselves would not choose it for their own animal.

Obviously a horse in a situation like after falling or breaking a leg at a P2P is going to be a distressing situation to deal with, whatever method.

I had a horse put down by animal collection last year with a penetrating captive bolt gun. I was really impressed with the service. It is instant and not even loud. My horse has his head in a bucket of food and never even saw it coming.

I have no problem with the factory, and have experience of this as well, but for my own horse, I felt €100 was a small price to pay to have him put down at home, in his own surroundings with his head in a bucket of feed. That price included disposal, I didn't watch obviously, but it took all of 10mins to get him loaded and away.

Yeah I know vets who wouldn't use the injection for their own animal but I guess it depends on what they use in the injection. I think I like the idea of over dosing anesthetic than any other injection to be honest.
We had a horse put down like that. She changed very suddenly to a very bad state and was near the end anyway. Although, in saying that, she used her final burst of energy to drag herself and 3 other people out of the stable and into a sand pen where she went down and the vet decided to get the injections. We like to think (after her owner having her for 18 years) that she knew her time was up and didn't want to hurt anyone by going down in the stable. I have to say, it did just seem like she fell asleep.
Disposal team was rang then. I think that was the worst part to be honest. Darn laws... we wanted to bury her, considering how long the owner had her and she remained in the stables I work in for all those years. She was very much apart of the family but the vet wouldn't leave until we rang animal disposal. There was something not quite sitting right with me, watching her being dragged across the yard by a chain onto a pile of dead cows and sheep.

fits

her troubles were over then sup dude although I agree its not pleasant. I've looked after the fallen animal recovery for a friend before but wouldn't like to with my own horse.

mystika121

Rips wrote: »

Having seen a horse who was weak and dying of shock, fighting for life while vet refilled syringe, its not something I'd ever choose for my horse.

Any time I have seen a vet euthanise a horse they have never skimped on the drugs. It's usually two syringes one straight after the other. They pre-fill two so there isn't a gap.

convert

As with everything, I think people's experiences will greatly influence their preferences with regards to retiring older horses or the method used for putting them down on humane grounds. In addition, and unfortunately, some vets are better and/or more experienced than others in these situations. That will also play a role in how smoothly things go.

Ave Sodalis

fits wrote: »

her troubles were over then sup dude although I agree its not pleasant. I've looked after the fallen animal recovery for a friend before but wouldn't like to with my own horse.

Oh I know, she wasn't even my horse. It was just after that long of her being about, it was odd having her body just dragged off and tossed on a pile of carcasses at the back of a lorry.
I think it was cause she was older than I was at the time, and the owners had her for the same length of time I had been alive if not longer, which was why it didn't sit right with me.

convert

I know what you mean, sup_dude. I got really upset when one of the cattle at home died - she was really friendly and practically a pet - and it was awful to see her being loaded onto a trailer to be brought to the knackery. It is the upsetting side to owning animals.

whupdedo

As Ted Walsh said on telly 1 time "if you've got live stock, your going to have dead stock "

fits

I brought a horse to the factory once. 😢. He busted a tendon shortly after I got him. I had him on box rest for three months or so and then gave him time off to recuperate. In the meantime I got my other riding horse onloan and ended up buying him. First horse was field sound but had the bowed tendon and kept doing himself injury in the field. Coming into September I knew I couldn't keep him. So I rang up the factory and made the arrangements. I brought him over myself and dropped him off and spent the rest of the day bawling. But after that it was a relief. I wasn't afraid that id get out there and see him with another serious injury that I wouldn't be able to afford to treat. To have kept him would have been pointless and at least he wasn't wasted. (id rather see a dead animal 'used' than buried -which isn't good for environment btw). I haven't regretted it since although I know some wont be able to fathom it. I have a 25 year old mare too who hasn't been ridden for years but acts as a companion to the others. She is prone to laminitis and it will probably get her some day but we have caught it on time thus far and she was absolutely tearing around at Christmas which is great to see..

Ave Sodalis

fits wrote: »

id rather see a dead animal 'used' than buried -which isn't good for environment btw

Just out of complete curiosity as I couldn't find it, how come burying an animal is bad for the environment?
I get it if an injection is used but any other form of death, wouldn't that not be the best thing for the environment?

Edit: I should mention that I generally completely accept that animals will die and all that. I was general the first with the gloves on during anatomy labs. It was more the unceremonious removal of an animal who was owned for the same amount of years that (you could say) my mother had me.

fits

Well first of all, burying animals isn't allowed for disease and animal health reasons. While they decompose all sorts of pollutants could get onto watercourses or groundwater.

But also we put a lot into horses. A lot of resources which could be used elsewhere. Feed. The diesel that runs the tractor that harvests the feed. The energy that went into building the tractor. Whatever fertilisers or pesticides which may be used along the way. At least if you send a horse to the factory, or a kennels you are giving some of those resources back and a perfectly usable carcass is actually used rather than needlessly left to decompose.

Rips

I have to say I didn't mind my horse going into a truck full of carcasses in the least. Best of course if you don't watch something like that and then you won't have the memory of it.

I have two distinct memories of the day, walking him down the field for the last time, and seeing him, after he was shot.

He was only 8, but he had unsoundness issues which dogged since he was broken. As a stranger you could have looked at him and thought there was nothing wrong with him (the knackerman raised an eyebrow!) but lameness after lameness had altered his carriage, caused him muscle atrophy, affected his ability to thrive, and he just wasn't the same horse. He wasn't going to recover either. Its a sad thing, but in a way it reassures me that I did the right thing, as after he was dead, the image that I have of him, is with all the muscles in his body relaxed, for just that one last time he looked like the horse he used to be.

As fits say, better it was used to some end. My first preference would have been for him to go to the hunt, but he'd had plenty of bute and other medications in his short life.

You could apply the same sensibilities and say 'you wouldn't like the thought of a horse rotting in the ground', its just a matter of how you feel about it I suppose.

User2611

Rips wrote: »

I have to say I didn't mind my horse going into a truck full of carcasses in the least. Best of course if you don't watch something like that and then you won't have the memory of it.

I have two distinct memories of the day, walking him down the field for the last time, and seeing him, after he was shot.

He was only 8, but he had unsoundness issues which dogged since he was broken. As a stranger you could have looked at him and thought there was nothing wrong with him (the knackerman raised an eyebrow!) but lameness after lameness had altered his carriage, caused him muscle atrophy, affected his ability to thrive, and he just wasn't the same horse. He wasn't going to recover either. Its a sad thing, but in a way it reassures me that I did the right thing, as after he was dead, the image that I have of him, is with all the muscles in his body relaxed, for just that one last time he looked like the horse he used to be.

As fits say, better it was used to some end. My first preference would have been for him to go to the hunt, but he'd had plenty of bute and other medications in his short life.

You could apply the same sensibilities and say 'you wouldn't like the thought of a horse rotting in the ground', its just a matter of how you feel about it I suppose.

I also have a gelding pony with a problem with his tongue. The vet said it was a lump he was born with and so can't eat properly. It is also very uncomfortable if a bit were to go in his mouth. I was thinking of the factory but what regulations are there now? He is chipped and the mark up was sent away to get the passport. Is it you have to have the passport for 5 years before bringing him to the factory?

Rips

User2611 wrote: »

I also have a gelding pony with a problem with his tongue. The vet said it was a lump he was born with and so can't eat properly. It is also very uncomfortable if a bit were to go in his mouth. I was thinking of the factory but what regulations are there now? He is chipped and the mark up was sent away to get the passport. Is it you have to have the passport for 5 years before bringing him to the factory?

How old is he? An adult horse issued with a passport will automatically be declared unfit for consumption, as no veterinary/medicinal history exists, and cannot go to the factory.

The knackery will still take him, but it will cost.

My local knackery charge €100 dead or alive.

isaos

I have been following this thread with mixed feelings, it takes me back to my old horses that had to be put down, it was always done by injection and luckily, they all went very peacefully and at a very old age (between 25 and 35 years old for 5 of them). It is terrible to watch them being dragged once dead - but they are dead. I would have nightmares thinking of any of my pet horses arriving at the factory, and finding themselves in the smell of blood and death, after a life of treats, carrots and "Love you forever" kind of life.

This being said, most of us have been dreaming of these horses living free in the Wild West (of A), no matter if the weakest are caught by whatever predator and eaten alive, or break a leg and die in horrendous ways... factory is probably a more "humane" way to go?

Did you know that in France, they would have lost most of their breeds of heavy horses (Percherons, Boulonnais, etc..) if they hadn't been kept and bred for their meat?

Horses, dogs, cats.... they all die, and we are left sobbing and, at times, guilty. But life without them would be worse.