Did Sergio do a simon dyson?

ForeRight

Looks dodgy to me.

What you lads think?


http://golfdig.st/1atyhOs

Wichita Lineman

In terms of seeing what he is actually tapping the camera angle not great. Interesting though particularly seeing as Simon Dyson made his return to the tour in this event following his fine and suspension. Squeaky bum time for Sergio!

Halfprice

Seems to be still tapping his intended line like Dyson did.

ANXIOUS

I'd also imagine its not a pitch mark that he previously repaired, due to the proximity of his ball.

ShriekingSheet

Rather than it being a his pitch mark he just fixed, it could have been anyone's previous ball mark. If a guy a few groups ahead repaired his pitch mark less than perfectly, Sergio can tap that down.

Rules clearly say ball mark can be repaired, but spike marks absolutely can't be.

The point is, even if its not Sergio's own ball mark, he can still tap it.

It is not mandatory in the rules to ask an opponent if its ok before you repair a ball mark, but some people do out of courtesy and to be absolutely safe from accusation.

PARlance

Think it's time for them to have a look at this ruling.
Let them fix spike marks along with pitch marks, it'll save an awful lot of hassle.

What's the reasoning for not allowing it at present?

GreeBo

PARlance wrote: »

Think it's time for them to have a look at this ruling.
Let them fix spike marks along with pitch marks, it'll save an awful lot of hassle.

What's the reasoning for not allowing it at present?

The four hours it would take each guy to make a perfectly smooth highway from their ball to the hole!

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

The four hours it would take each guy to make a perfectly smooth highway from their ball to the hole!

I see where you're going, but slow play is a different problem and there are many ways they could address slow play to get round times done whilst still allowing a spike mark to be repaired.

death1234567

PARlance wrote: »

I see where you're going, but slow play is a different problem and there are many ways they could address slow play to get round times done whilst still allowing a spike mark to be repaired.

Pros' already have it too easy. The green's they play on are like snooker tables, if there's a spike mark in the way then just deal with it.

PARlance

Jez, I didn't realise that by not allowing them fix a spike mark they were intending to counteract
All other issues with the game and
All the Advantages Pro's have over amateurs.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

The four hours it would take each guy to make a perfectly smooth highway from their ball to the hole!

Exactly, can you just imagine how long it would take a high profile PGA Tour player known for his fidgety mannerisms to putt out, if he was legitimately allowed to tap down stuff in addition to the tapping he gets away with anyway !!

That's before you consider the known slow players who trot out the "we're playing for a million dollars, I'll take as long as I want" excuse.

SnowDrifts

Sergio was cleared of this as he was adamant he was repairing a ball mark. http://www.golfbytourmiss.com/2014/01/sergio-garcia-cleared-of-any-rules-breach-in-abu-dhabi/#.UtjaVGGXnSs.twitter


It's a silly rule but a necessary evil. As Greebo points out above - there would be a lot of gardening going on if spike marks were allowed to be repaired. Could you image spending hours watching Keegan Bradley making sure he had a smooth line to the hole!

IITYWYBMAD

Is this rule there to speed up play? I didn't know that. Are they allowed repair spike marks after they have holed out?

SnowDrifts

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Is this rule there to speed up play? I didn't know that. Are they allowed repair spike marks after they have holed out?

Not exactly sure why the rule was first implemented but I imagine speed of play was a definite factor. Also.. it might be hard to distinguish between spike marks and green irregularities and to repair such runs contrary to the principle of playing the course as you find it.

Yes, spike marks can be repaired after holing out and you are, in fact, encouraged to do so.

TerryOC

No he didn't

TRS30

Back on topic.

Does anyone know if they made Sergio go out to green and show them the pitch mark he repaired?

spacecoyote

TRS30 wrote: »

Back on topic.

Does anyone know if they made Sergio go out to green and show them the pitch mark he repaired?

Pretty sure that is what happened, himself & head rules official went out to the course & reviewed his actions. Rules guys stated that it was not a spike mark so were happy to let Sergio continue

Shady Tady

I play with a guy who has difficulty distinguishing between spike and ball marks, they all seem to be ball marks. Hard to pick someone up on it in that senario

ForeRight

Shady Tady wrote: »

I play with a guy who has difficulty distinguishing between spike and ball marks, they all seem to be ball marks. Hard to pick someone up on it in that senario

This is the thing.

He repairs a mark and you say that was a spike mark, he says no it was a pitch mark!!

What can you do????

TRS30

ForeRight wrote: »

This is the thing.

He repairs a mark and you say that was a spike mark, he says no it was a pitch mark!!

What can you do????

Ask them to check with you before they do it in future.

ShriekingSheet

TRS30 wrote: »

Ask them to check with you before they do it in future.

Don't agree with this.

If someone chooses to ask before repairing as a courtesy and to avoid doubt, then fine, but they don't have to ask you. And by suggesting they ask in future is only going to antagonise and cause awkwardness, at the very least.

The only time I'd ever ask us the rare occasion where I'm not certain it's a ball dent. If I'm fairly sure, ill get a second opinion. Otherwise, I play my own game, by the rules, and don't expect or appreciate intrusion without good reason.

As has always been the core sentiment of the game, a golfer is his/her own referee. They can cheat by repairing spike marks, matting down rough behind the ball at address, taking incorrect relief - a whole myriad of ways - and you won't prevent someone whose out to cheat by trying to bolt in stipulations that aren't in the rules, such as 'ask before you do that in future".

Sure it was only last night on the European Tour they were talking about a situation where someone asked their playing partners (one was Mickelson) before proceeding with a drop. All fine and agreed, then it turned out they were all wrong, player DQ.

You can only play by the rules, and assume the other guys is too. You'd drive yourself mad otherwise.

Rikand

TRS30 wrote: »

Ask them to check with you before they do it in future.

I always ask before hand. Takes all of 5 seconds to ask and have it confirmed or denied.

In a 4 hour round of golf, 5 seconds isn't much....

Sandwlch

Rikand wrote: »

I always ask before hand. Takes all of 5 seconds to ask and have it confirmed or denied.

In a 4 hour round of golf, 5 seconds isn't much....

How often do people say - no, thats a spike mark, dont touch it ?

Wombatman

If you are playing with a partner can you tap down spike marks on their line after you have holed out?

SnowDrifts

Wombatman wrote: »

If you are playing with a partner can you tap down spike marks on their line after you have holed out?

As in playing partner in a fourball? - No, you can't. 2 stroke penalty for him if you did.

TRS30

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Don't agree with this.

If someone chooses to ask before repairing as a courtesy and to avoid doubt, then fine, but they don't have to ask you. And by suggesting they ask in future is only going to antagonise and cause awkwardness, at the very least.

The only time I'd ever ask us the rare occasion where I'm not certain it's a ball dent. If I'm fairly sure, ill get a second opinion. Otherwise, I play my own game, by the rules, and don't expect or appreciate intrusion without good reason.

As has always been the core sentiment of the game, a golfer is his/her own referee. They can cheat by repairing spike marks, matting down rough behind the ball at address, taking incorrect relief - a whole myriad of ways - and you won't prevent someone whose out to cheat by trying to bolt in stipulations that aren't in the rules, such as 'ask before you do that in future".

Sure it was only last night on the European Tour they were talking about a situation where someone asked their playing partners (one was Mickelson) before proceeding with a drop. All fine and agreed, then it turned out they were all wrong, player DQ.

You can only play by the rules, and assume the other guys is too. You'd drive yourself mad otherwise.

I was replying to a previous poster who asked what can do about someone you are playing with who can't distinguish between pitch and spike marks.

If someone is cheating in the competition you are playing in you have an obligation to the other competitors to call them on it.

Russman

TRS30 wrote: »

I was replying to a previous poster who asked what can do about someone you are playing with who can't distinguish between pitch and spike marks.

If someone is cheating in the competition you are playing in you have an obligation to the other competitors to call them on it.

Yes, but you have no right under the rules to ask them to check with you before they repair a pitch mark.

Howjoe1

Russman wrote: »

Yes, but you have no right under the rules to ask them to check with you before they repair a pitch mark.

it the level my group play, leaving a pitch mark un-repaired can help sometimes:o

i do think it's time for some old rules to be updated.

Russman

Howjoe1 wrote: »

i do think it's time for some old rules to be updated.

Ahh I dunno, for sure there are some strange ones that seem a little quirky, but I don't think golf has fundamentally changed that much, equipment aside.
As someone said earlier, I think allowing spike marks to be repaired could lead to crazy slow play, and also changes the nature of playing the course as you find it. No-one said golf was meant to be fair .

PARlance

Slightly off topic:

But I seem to recall that it came up on the Dyson disqualification thread and is somewhat related.

Those Adizero shoes will put green keepers out of jobs. Playing with 2 boardsies today and they do some damage when the greens are soft.
For anyone looking at playing Grange Castle this week, it has recently pole forked... By the lads

spacecoyote

PARlance wrote: »

Slightly off topic:

But I seem to recall that it came up on the Dyson disqualification thread and is somewhat related.

Those Adizero shoes will put green keepers out of jobs. Playing with 2 boardsies today and they do some damage when the greens are soft.
For anyone looking at playing Grange Castle this week, it has recently pole forked... By the lads

beat me to the punch in that one...still need to contact the competition secretary over some of those "pitch marks"

PARlance

spacecoyote wrote: »

beat me to the punch in that one...still need to contact the competition secretary over some of those "pitch marks"

The pitch marks were easily identifiable... They were the ones that were way smaller than your spike craters

TRS30

Russman wrote: »

Yes, but you have no right under the rules to ask them to check with you before they repair a pitch mark.

Agreed. However if you view them tapping down an obvious spike mark in their line you do have the right to call them on it, just like any other rules infringement.

Russman

TRS30 wrote: »

Agreed. However if you view them tapping down an obvious spike mark in their line you do have the right to call them on it, just like any other rules infringement.

Absolutely.