Single farm payments

Salmonman

I don't receive any SFP because I wasn't farming last reference year.
Reading the FJ this evening will everyone farming in 2013 get entitlements .Is this right or not.

coolshannagh28

Salmonman wrote: »

I don't receive any SFP because I wasn't farming last reference year.
Reading the FJ this evening will everyone farming in 2013 get entitlements .Is this right or not.

There is to be a national reserve established for this scenario but I would imagine the payment will be at the low end of the scale . A lot of farmers are in your position and have been in limbo for a long time , do you hold out and take a chance on the new national reserve or do you buy as many highish value entitlements as you can knowing there is going to be no major reduction over the next 6 years ?

nashmach

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

There is to be a national reserve established for this scenario but I would imagine the payment will be at the low end of the scale . A lot of farmers are in your position and have been in limbo for a long time , do you hold out and take a chance on the new national reserve or do you buy as many highish value entitlements as you can knowing there is going to be no major reduction over the next 6 years ?

How will buying now help you?

They would have to be activated in 2013.

coolshannagh28

The trade in entitlements will continue as far as I can make out unless there is a plan to do otherwise

benjydagg

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The trade in entitlements will continue as far as I can make out unless there is a plan to do otherwise

The trade is open. Forms are on the DAFM site.

My advice is BUY HIGH.

I am not a financial advisor, i'm a farmer who has bought in the past, and will be buying again this year.

nashmach

Yes but the OP wasn't farming in 2013 so how can they claim.

Your amount for post 2015 is based on the 2013 total SFP so how is buying entitlements going to help.

I must be missing something....

donegal11

How will entitlements work now is there not going to be a new reference year with convergence to of lowest to 60% average

knockmulliner

Anyone know the situation on leased payments?

bbam

donegal11 wrote: »

with convergence to of lowest to 60% average

I'm not too well learned so I have no idea what that means

It just sounds like a politician trying to speak around something.

Can you explain it further.

coolshannagh28

most farmers seem to have little or no understanding of this ,entitlements have been and will be a tradable asset the same as cattle ,if you have none or low value entitlements you can sell cheap and buy dear as long as you have bare hectares to place them on .I assume this will apply going forward as long as you made a return in 2013 to establish your rights as a farmer ,there is a possibility a farmer with no SFP will acquire entitlements from the national reserve subject to fairly stringent criteria and at the lower end of the value scale .
The other option is to purchase higher value entitlements on the open market at a premium of 1.5 to 2 times face value in the knowledge that they will lose a certain amount of value as payments converge closer to a national average in 2020. Due to Coveneys negotiation at the talks last year the amount of convergence has been limited greatly in Ireland making high value entitlements a much more attractive investment in Ireland . Many now look on SFP as a form of pension scheme and it is an excellent investment choice relative to other options out there at the minute.

donegal11

So if I'm getting this correct rights established in the early 2000s are going to be carried on forever? In 2020 they'll be marginal change with convergence. Would logic not dictate that we should be resetting entitlements based on current production or land holding bases and then start convergence from there(if production based).

benjydagg

donegal11 wrote: »

So if I'm getting this correct rights established in the early 2000s are going to be carried on forever? In 2020 they'll be marginal change with convergence. Would logic not dictate that we should be resetting entitlements based on current production or land holding bases and then start convergence from there(if production based).

Logic never came into it. It's now based on how big the holding, so expect a lot of consolidation of small holdings.

donegal11

benjydagg wrote: »

Logic never came into it. It's now based on how big the holding, so expect a lot of consolidation of small holdings.

I don't get that logic? it's not a flat payment. A bigger holding can claim more entitlements but in the west the minimum payment of 60% of the average (which will see many sheep farmers better off) you won't see many sell out along with caps in Disadvantage and aeos/GLAS also minimizing payments to larger holdings.

benjydagg

donegal11 wrote: »

I don't get that logic? it's not a flat payment. A bigger holding can claim more entitlements but in the west the minimum payment of 60% of the average (which will see many sheep farmers better off) you won't see many sell out along with caps in Disadvantage and aeos/GLAS also minimizing payments to larger holdings.

60% of the national average will be €150/ha (in 2019). That's €60/acre. That's is not going to excite anyone.
Max disadvantaged is circa €3,000.
In my opinion this is the year to scale up your entitlements. That is my personal opinion. The €80 per sucker cow will not do anything to halt the exodus from that venture.

nashmach

benjydagg wrote: »

60% of the national average will be €150/ha (in 2019). That's €60/acre. That's is not going to excite anyone.
Max disadvantaged is circa €3,000.
In my opinion this is the year to scale up your entitlements. That is my personal opinion. The €80 per sucker cow will not do anything to halt the exodus from that venture.

I might be slow but I have asked once and will ask again how will this help!

Your total SFP for the next few years is already fixed based on what you have claimed in 2013.

Your area is fixed on the minimum area in 2013 or a prior year.

Therefore your SFP per hectare is fixed at this stage for a certain amount of entitlements.

The only reason you would want to buy entitlements in 2015 is you have increased your acreage or if a trading scheme is in place (which I have seen no information on yet).

benjydagg

nashmach wrote: »

I might be slow but I have asked once and will ask again how will this help!

Your total SFP for the next few years is already fixed based on what you have claimed in 2013.

Your area is fixed on the minimum area in 2013 or a prior year.

Therefore your SFP per hectare is fixed at this stage for a certain amount of entitlements.

The only reason you would want to buy entitlements in 2015 is you have increased your acreage or if a trading scheme is in place (which I have seen no information on yet).

The area claimed by you in 2013 OR 2015 whichever is less will be you number of entitlements.
The amount of money claimed in 2014 will determine the value of you entitlements in 2015.
Application forms for 2014 trading have been on DAFM site since August 2013.
Entitlements are trading as I text.
For example, look at farmentitlements.ie
I am not endorsing or advertising for this, it is just an example.

Hurling Hereford

benjydagg wrote: »

60% of the national average will be €150/ha (in 2019). That's €60/acre. That's is not going to excite anyone.
Max disadvantaged is circa €3,000.
In my opinion this is the year to scale up your entitlements. That is my personal opinion. The €80 per sucker cow will not do anything to halt the exodus from that venture.

The new Beef Genomics Scheme will help keep me in farming. Only hobby farmers or big farmers receiving a large Single Farm Payment would turn their noses up at this scheme.

Vandy West

benjydagg wrote: »

The area claimed by you in 2013 OR 2015 whichever is less will be you number of entitlements.
The amount of money claimed in 2014 will determine the value of you entitlements in 2015.
Application forms for 2014 trading have been on DAFM site since August 2013.
Entitlements are trading as I text.
For example, look at farmentitlements.ie
I am not endorsing or advertising for this, it is just an example.

Are you sure it is the area farmed in 2013(if greater than 2015) and not the number of entitlements claimed in 2013 that will determine the number of entitlements in 2015?

benjydagg

Vandy West wrote: »

Are you sure it is the area farmed in 2013(if greater than 2015) and not the number of entitlements claimed in 2013 that will determine the number of entitlements in 2015?

See my previous post. It is the lesser of 2013 or 2015 area.

Vandy West

benjydagg wrote: »

See my previous post. It is the lesser of 2013 or 2015 area.

Tha would be great news for me, did you get that from the dept web site or was it in the farmers journal or something?

benjydagg

Vandy West wrote: »

Tha would be great news for me, did you get that from the dept web site or was it in the farmers journal or something?

That's been in the public for a long time. It was to stop a land grab last year.
Don't do anything hasty. If it suits you to buy entitlements for this year then I would suggest you do.

Look up the dept website. Under Cap. Read what was agreed by the commission. Then look at the minister's announcement from this week, and at the bottom of that in blue, it has editor's notes. More detail there.

jt65

Following is from ICMSA Email




Update CAP 2014 – 2020


15th January 2014

Single Farm Payment and Rural Development Programme

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Simon Coveney TD, has announced the allocation of more than €12.5 billion in the Common Agricultural Policy and exchequer funding to the agriculture sector in the period to 2020. This will be comprised of €8.5 billion in EU funding that will be paid in Direct Payments to farmers in the period up to 2020, coupled with €1.9 billion in national funding which will be added to the €2.2 billion EU funding already secured for expenditure on rural development. This represents a commitment of 46% co-funding by the Government for the RDP in the period to 2020.

There are still a number of issues to be clarified by the Department but the following is a general overview given the information available to-date.

Single Farm Payment
Ireland’s allocation for direct payments to farmers will be just over €1.2 billion per annum in the period to 2020.

The Basic Payment Scheme

The Single Payment Scheme will be replaced by the Basic Payment Scheme. Ireland will implement the ‘Internal Convergence Model’ of redistribution of funds between farmers. This model, while initially retaining the link with current payments under the Single Payment Scheme, gradually moves all farmers towards a national average value over the five years of the new scheme but does not arrive at a ‘flat-rate’ by 2019. The purpose of this model is to achieve a phased redistribution of payments between those who currently hold high value entitlements and those who hold low value entitlements.

Farmers who hold entitlements with a unit value below 90% of the national average value will be increased by one third of the difference between their starting value and the 90% level over the five years of the scheme. The national average is expected to be in the range €230 - €270 per hectare.

Farmers who hold entitlements with a unit value over 100% of the national average value will see their value decrease over the period of the scheme. The reduction will be determined by the amount needed to fund the increase for those whose entitlement value is being increased.

The following Table gives an approximation of the average payment per hectare that will apply by 2019. Please note it is based on a minimum payment of 60% of National Average and it does not take account of ceiling cuts, reductions for Young Farmers, National Reserve etc…

Modelling Database based on 2010 SPS Database


Minimum Payment of 60% National Average


Payment per Ha Category 2010


€


Average Payment/Ha 2010


€


Average Payment/Ha 2019


€

O payment, some area

0


163

0 to 20

11


163

20 to 50

36


163

50 to 100

75


163

100 to 150

125


168

150 to 200

176


199

200 to 244.87

223


230

< 90% of National Average

140


189

244.87 to 272.07
(90% to 100% Nat Avg)

259

259

272.02 to 300

286


281

300 to 350

324


305

350 to 400

374


336

400 to 450

423


368

450 to 500

473


399

500 to 550

523


431

550 to 600

573


463

600 to 650

623


494

650 to 700

674


526

700 to 750

723


558

750 to 800

773


589

800 to 850

823


621

850 to 900

871


651

900 to 950

925


685

950 to 1,000

974


716

1,000+

1180


847

By 2019 all entitlements will have a minimum value of 60% of the national average value. This will be approximately €150 per hectare.

No farmer will receive a payment under the Basic Payment Scheme of over €150,000 per annum.

By 2019 no farmer will receive a payment per hectare (Basic Payment plus Greening payment) greater than €700.00.

Payments received under the 2014 Grassland Sheep Scheme will be incorporated into the calculation of the entitlement value in each year of the new regime for those farmers who participated in that Scheme. This will have the effect of increasing their entitlement value and ensure that such farmers do not lose through the cessation of the Grassland Sheep Scheme at the end of 2014.

Farmers who never held entitlements, either owned or leased, under the current Single Payment Scheme but who actively farmed in 2013 will be eligible for an allocation of entitlements in 2015 – details of qualifying criteria to be confirmed.

Farmers who produced ‘fruit and vegetables’ in 2013 but did not receive a direct payment in that year, and consequently do not have an automatic ‘allocation right’, will be eligible for an allocation of entitlements in 2015.

Greening


Farmers who participate in the Basic Payment Scheme must implement the three standard greening measures as follows;
· Crop diversification
· Permanent grassland
· Ecological Focus Area (EFA)
The greening payment will take the form of an annual payment per hectare. The payment will be calculated as a percentage of the payment the farmer receives under the Basic Payment Scheme. The same percentage will be applied to all farmers and greening will represent some 30% of each farmer’s total payment.

There are a number of scenarios where a holding or part of it may be considered as ‘green by definition’ and there is no further obligation to implement the three greening standard measures. Two of the most significant are;

· Land that is subject to organic farming practices automatically fulfils all greening requirements. However such exemption only applies to that part of the holding which is farmed organically.
· Holdings where more than 75% of the eligible agricultural area is permanent grassland or is used for the production of grasses or other herbaceous forage have no further obligation to implement the three greening measures, provided the remaining arable area does not exceed 30 hectares.

Young Farmers Scheme


Ireland will establish a Young Farmers Scheme the purpose of which is to encourage the participation of young farmers in agriculture. The scheme will assist young farmers in the initial stages of establishing a farming enterprise in their own name by providing a ‘top-up’ payment on the payment they receive under the Basic Payment Scheme.

Ireland will allocate the full allowable amount of 2% of its national ceiling to the scheme in 2015. Percentages to be applied in subsequent years will be determined by demand.

The payment is available for a maximum of five years from the date of the establishment of the holding in the young farmer’s name (Date he/she got Herd Number).

A Young farmer is defined as being aged 40 or less in their first year of application to the Basic Payment Scheme and having established their holding within the previous five years. In addition, successful applicants will have completed a recognised course of education in agriculture giving rise to an award at FETAC level 6 or its equivalent.

The Young Farmers payment will be calculated as 25% of the national average payment per hectare (based on the national ceiling) multiplied by the number of entitlements activated by the young farmer subject to a maximum number of 50.


National Reserve


Ireland will establish a National Reserve using 3% of the ceiling allocated to the Basic Payment Scheme in 2015. This is a once-off allocation and in subsequent years the Reserve will be replenished from the return of unused entitlements.

Priority for the allocation of entitlements from the Reserve will be given to ‘young farmers’ and to those who ‘commence their agricultural activity’ i.e. new entrants to farming. In all cases, allocations of entitlements from the Reserve will only be given to persons who are ‘active farmers’.

The definition of ‘young farmer’ is the same as that under the Young Farmers Scheme. A ‘new entrant to farming’ is defined as persons who commenced their agricultural activity in the 2013 calendar year or any later year and did not have any agricultural activity in their own name and at their own risk in the five years preceding the start of the agricultural activity. As with the Young Farmers Scheme, successful applicants will have completed a recognised course of education in agriculture giving rise to an award at FETAC level 6 or its equivalent.


Support for Protein Crops
A new incentivised support programme for the protein sector will be introduced.


































Priority for the allocation of entitlements from the Reserve will be given to ‘young farmers’ and to those who ‘commence their agricultural activity’ i.e. new entrants to farming. In all cases, allocations of entitlements from the Reserve will only be given to p

paddysdream

As I understand it(could be out by a mile!!);

Take your NET payment in 2014,add in the sheep grassland money(I think) and then deduct the percentage cuts for national reserve,young farmers,budget cut etc(think should be about 8% or so in total).

Then divide this figure by the amount of hectares farmed in either 2013 or 2015(whichever is the lesser) and thats your new starting entitlements.

For example;
20k gross(400 per hectare)at the moment on 50 hectares gives about 18k after modulation.
Take away another 8% or so ,say 1450 euro.Add in sheep grassland if appliciable.

This leaves about 16500 or so ie 330 per hectare.

This will be where you start.Then the cuts come in each year on a graduated basis.Prob the example will be at about 300 per hectare or so by 2019.

If after making up your new entitlement you are below the national average(256 or so per hectare net) then your payment will gradually increase towards this .

Think all land will have to have a minimum entitlement of 160 or so (60% of the national average)by 2019.So if you have zero or very little at the moment then you will increase year by year to this figure which will be reached by 2019.

All this assumes you activated at least one entitlement in 2013(?).

If not then I think its a case of applying to the national reserve.Presume there will be a points scheme of some sort to priortise appliciants.

just do it

Benjydagg

Do you mind me asking have you spare land to claim the entitlements on? Or are you leasing out land? Or consolidating (if that's possible)?

benjydagg

just do it wrote: »

Benjydagg

Do you mind me asking have you spare land to claim the entitlements on? Or are you leasing out land? Or consolidating (if that's possible)?

I am selling some of my original entitlements (all subject to capital gains tax) and buying more expensive ones. All above board, and within terms and conditions.

Hurling Hereford

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

There is to be a national reserve established for this scenario but I would imagine the payment will be at the low end of the scale . A lot of farmers are in your position and have been in limbo for a long time , do you hold out and take a chance on the new national reserve or do you buy as many highish value entitlements as you can knowing there is going to be no major reduction over the next 6 years ?

There was no National Reserve in 2013 and there will be no National Reserve 2014 as per the Department. There MAY be a National Reserve in 2015, as per my friend in the Department.

paddysdream

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

There was no National Reserve in 2013 and there will be no National Reserve 2014 as per the Department. There MAY be a National Reserve in 2015, as per my friend in the Department.

Think one of the conditions of the post 2015 regime is that a national reserve must be established.Also think this has to be a certain fixed percentage of the budget.

As far as I know a percentage(2% ?) will be taken from the pillar 1 budget (SFP ie your area aid) and used to establish a national reserve to sevre the new scheme starting from 2015.

This entails a similar percentage cut on everybodys SFP whether you are on 1k or 1 euro per hectare.

Dont think anything has been published yet as to the criteria needed to apply or receive anything from this reserve.

Sami23

paddysdream wrote: »

As I understand it(could be out by a mile!!);

Take your NET payment in 2014,add in the sheep grassland money(I think) and then deduct the percentage cuts for national reserve,young farmers,budget cut etc(think should be about 8% or so in total).

Then divide this figure by the amount of hectares farmed in either 2013 or 2015(whichever is the lesser) and thats your new starting entitlements.

For example;
20k gross(400 per hectare)at the moment on 50 hectares gives about 18k after modulation.
Take away another 8% or so ,say 1450 euro.Add in sheep grassland if appliciable.

This leaves about 16500 or so ie 330 per hectare.

This will be where you start.Then the cuts come in each year on a graduated basis.Prob the example will be at about 300 per hectare or so by 2019.

If after making up your new entitlement you are below the national average(256 or so per hectare net) then your payment will gradually increase towards this .

Think all land will have to have a minimum entitlement of 160 or so (60% of the national average)by 2019.So if you have zero or very little at the moment then you will increase year by year to this figure which will be reached by 2019.

All this assumes you activated at least one entitlement in 2013(?).

If not then I think its a case of applying to the national reserve.Presume there will be a points scheme of some sort to priortise appliciants.

Going on this am I correct in saying for e.g if you farmed 20 hectares in 2013 and claimed 8k in 2014 that your entitlements from 2015 on will be 400 per hectare ?
Also, does this mean that if you lease another 5 hectares in 2015 or later you will have no entitlements on it but will you still be able to purchase entitlements post 2015 for the leased land ?????????
Sorry for all the questions

The Cuban

Sami23 wrote: »

Going on this am I correct in saying for e.g if you farmed 20 hectares in 2013 and claimed 8k in 2014 that your entitlements from 2015 on will be 400 per hectare ?
Also, does this mean that if you lease another 5 hectares in 2015 or later you will have no entitlements on it but will you still be able to purchase entitlements post 2015 for the leased land ?????????
Sorry for all the questions

you`ve got it right, but remember their will be modulation on the entitlements from 2015 onwards but only on the SFP above €5000

Sami23

The Cuban wrote: »

you`ve got it right, but remember their will be modulation on the entitlements from 2015 onwards but only on the SFP above €5000

Thanks, so we will definately still be able to purchase entitlements in 2015 ?

nashmach

Sami23 wrote: »

Going on this am I correct in saying for e.g if you farmed 20 hectares in 2013 and claimed 8k in 2014 that your entitlements from 2015 on will be 400 per hectare ?
Also, does this mean that if you lease another 5 hectares in 2015 or later you will have no entitlements on it but will you still be able to purchase entitlements post 2015 for the leased land ?????????
Sorry for all the questions

You are correct on the first piece.

Essentially, they are rebasing the entitlements per hectare in 2015 but obviously subject to modulation cuts etc.

No one knows yet what the position will be with respect to trading entitlements under the new regime.

35x

Does anybody know if it will be necessary to avail of the services of a Teagasc advisor or Agri Consultant in completing application material for the new CAP scheme in 2014, 2015 ? I have not used them before (other than REPS) I am a small farmer and costs are tight, so the cost of above is a concern. I have been completing all my forms myself to date and am I to presume that I can continue to do so?

just do it

35x wrote: »

Does anybody know if it will be necessary to avail of the services of a Teagasc advisor or Agri Consultant in completing application material for the new CAP scheme in 2014, 2015 ? I have not used them before (other than REPS) I am a small farmer and costs are tight, so the cost of above is a concern. I have been completing all my forms myself to date and am I to presume that I can continue to do so?

don't think so