Issues with In Laws headed for breaking point

Whiteladder

I’ve been contemplating posting this issue for a long time now, so here it goes.

I have been married to my wife for approximately 2 and a half years now. We had a relatively brief courtship previous to that: We met in early 09, moved in together within 3 months, we engaged after a year and married the following year. I suppose it’s a case of you know when it’s the right person. I knew she was, and still is, the right person for me, and I am pretty sure she feels the same. However the once constant niggle in the background, that tends to come to the fore from time to time are my mother and father in law, particularly the mother in law.

They are the type of people who tend to give their judgements and opinions on everything, and I mean everything, whether they have been asked for them or not. In fairness I had sort of noticed it even from the first day I met them, plus my wife’s brother in law also warned me about it fairly early on in the relationship. My wife knows it goes on. She and her brothers and sisters often discuss it and laugh in disbelief at some of the things their mother says in particular. And on a couple of occasions some have them have pulled her up and comments, but in general the family seem to be indifferent to the parents behaviour saying “sure that’s them, they’ll never change” or “they mean no harm” etc etc.

On the whole I get on with her parents, they annoy me, but on my wifes request I tend to suck it up and ignore the comments. The comments can be anything from innocuous stupid things to more serious homophobic or racist comments, to very personal comments about my own family. What gets to me about a lot of the comments is the passive aggressive manner they are delivered. The comment is delivered and passed off before you have time to digest it and respond. I have spoken to my wife about their comments and general behaviour, I have asked her if we could address it, suggesting that I speak with them (her dad) myself, but time and again she has asked me to ignore it and told me that it won’t change anything. She is an extremely non-confrontational person and will do anytihng to avoid something like this.

Most recently (last weekend) the problem escalated to a whole new level. We recently welcomed our new baby to the world just before Christmas. My wife’s parents came to visit at the weekend, and from the moment they crossed the threshold her mother criticised everything she could think of. Everything was wrong: how we change the child, how we feed, burp the child. We have been doing everything as per the Midwife and Public Health Nurse instructions and the baby is prospering, but yet, at the weekend everything was run into the ground. Coupled with this was the fact that she just took over when she came in. It was as if the child was hers. All this continued right up until they left on Saturday evening. On Saturday morning she even attempted to take the child off me whilst I was feeding as she reckoned I wasn’t able to do it properly. This may be our first born, but I have oodles of nieces and nephews and have spent long enough babysitting, feeding and changing them to have a basic grasp of what I am doing. Now I understand that this is her grandchild and, because they live 2 hours away (thankfully) she wants to make the most of her time with the baby. But I don’t think she can take over in someone else’s house like this. I’m probably as bad though because when she starts behaving like this I will go out of my way to do the opposite of what she says.

The reason the above bothered me so much was because early last week my wife was having a fit of the ‘baby blues’ and her mother happened to call her on the day, at which point my wife got upset on the phone. But for her to hear her own daughter so upset on the phone, and then to come down the following weekend and proceed to criticise absolutely everything that we are doing is as thoughtless and as insensitive as a mother could be in my view.

As regards the passive aggressive behaviour, this tends to bug me even more. My wife’s parents are (supposedly) devout Christians. They are in church on a Sunday (twice), at prayer/bible meetings during the week and always quoting the bible. I am not of the same Christian denomination as my wife, I am catholic. This has never been a problem for either of us, and neither of us are regular churchgoers. We both know right from wrong and I am a firm believer that religion is a very personal thing. But on Friday night, when my wife’s parent arrived and her mother was nursing the baby she started saying the following to the baby “When you get older you make sure your mammy and daddy teach you how to pray to god and all about holy Jesus etc etc.”. This was all said within earshot of me, but I ignored on the ongoing request of my wife. I was very annoyed over it, particularly since my religion has always been an issue for them. Back when my wife and I decided to get married, her father requested that we don’t force the children into any religion one way or the other, yet in his very next breath insisted we get married in his church (which is different to that of me or my wife).

I am very interested in health and fitness and would be gone out the house about 3 nights a week training and on average 1 Sunday in 4 over the course of a year participating in events. In my view this is not much, my wife is more than ok with it. But in the lead up to the birth, I got a number of passive aggressive comments about how I will be retiring when the baby arrives - I am 33. When she got no joy out of me (my answer used to be “Not a hope”), she proceeded to ask my wife about it, who, as always, feels the need to justify everything to her. I don’t feel the need to justify myself to anyone. Once my wife and I are both happy and in agreement with each other about what we do and don’t do, well then to me it is nobody else’s business as far as I’m concerned.

We have always had to endure this type of carry on, it just tends to escalate in the lead up to events; our wedding, buying a house, the babies birth etc. but now I fear that, because raising the baby is going to be an ongoing thing and not a one off event, the level of interference is not going to be escalated on an ongoing basis! I see it with my wifes sisters kids and the level of interference that goes on there.

On Saturday after they left, I was so annoyed with my wife for yet again gagging me that I had a right go at her and told her that as long as she remained silent, even though it bothers her, and as long as she does not allow me to pull them up on it, she is as much to blame as them. It really really bugs me that she is happy enough to let our relationship suffer at the hands of their thoughtlessness just so that they aren't upset by anyone. So now the strain it puts on our relationship is starting to become more prominent the longer this goes on. In the meantime they go home quite happy and blissfully unaware that their behaviour has caused alot of hurt and anger.

I am just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience. If so, what did you do and how did things work out as a result of what you did?

What I would really like to do is tell them to **** off and not darken my doorstep again, but I know I have a responsibility to my wife and child and cannot do that. If I wait until they say something again I know I’ll just hit the roof and snap and I won’t get half of my message across and it’ll all be about how I lost it and abused her/them. I know if my wife talks to her mother about it she won’t bring up half the issues and will end up apologising to the mother for the whole thing. Then I wonder am I being over sensitive and is it me that needs to cop myself on.

Any advice and/or experiences more than welcome.

alias06

Not much you can do here except minimise contact. Arrange to be out of the house when the in-laws call over. Why are you letting them get to you? This is obviously their way of carrying on. It ridiculous but they aren't going to change. Some people just have to criticise the hell out of everything and everyone. You know no matter what you do they willl still have the snide remark. Ignore them, avoid them, don't let them win.

Beruthiel

Whiteladder wrote: »

What I would really like to do is tell them to **** off and not darken my doorstep again, but I know I have a responsibility to my wife and child and cannot do that.

Yes. You do have a responsibility towards them.
But, your wife also has a responsibility towards you and your child.
She might need reminding of that.

Reading through your comments above, I have no idea how you have lasted so long. You truly must have the willpower of Yoda.
I quite literally would not have been able to keep my opinion to myself had such comments been made towards me.

As an atheist myself, I would certainly have told her where she could stick her religious views.

As a father, having to take that 'chip, chipping' attitude on your shortfalls, that must make the vein on the side of your forehead throb.

I understand that your wife is caught between a rock and a hard place. She doesn't want to rock the boat.
However, you need to make it clear that this is affecting your relationship.
Were I in your shoes, I just could not take it. I couldn't.
I would curtail their visits to my house.
I would leave the house before they arrived.
I wouldn't visit them.
I would avoid contact as much as possible, for my own sanity.

You really and truly need to sit your wife down and explain that you're at breaking point with regards to this.
You need to make her understand what it's doing to you and she needs to help you come up with workable solutions for your future lives together.

But mostly, and I mean this, your wife needs to grow a back bone and tell her mother to butt out. Seriously, the woman does need to be told to stop interfering and it is up to her daughter to put her straight on that.

Best of luck OP, hope it works out for you.
You have my utmost sympathy.

CaraMay

alias06 wrote: »

No much you can do here except minimise contact. Arrange to be out of the house when the in-laws call over. Why are you letting them get to you? This is obviously their way to carrying on. It ridiculous but they aren't going to change. Some people just have to criticise the hell out of everything and everyone. You know no matter what you do they willl still have the snide remark. Ignore them, avoid them, don't let them win.

Exactly and your wife and her sibling(s) have facilitated it all their lives and fed the monster so to speak.


There are areas you need to chill about but I wouldn't allow them insult my family but your wife is a grown adult and it's her decision how she lets them talk to her. She is old enough to speak up for herself if she wants to. I agree your in laws are doses but the main issue lies with your wife and her unwillingness to defend you as her primary family unit.

ElleEm

If your wife is really intent on not getting involved or allowing you to address it with them, then I agree with Alias, in that your only option is to not engage with them. Speak to your wife about how difficult it is for you. If she still disagrees with you saying something to them, then you can tell her that you have to mind yourself in this.
If they live 2 hours away, then I am sure their visits are scheduled well in advance. If you can, arrange to be away or out for long periods of time.
You may still have to deal with your wife telling you what they say/ think/ feel about certain situations, so you may have to tell her to limit what she shares, but this is and clearly will further damage your relationship. Your wife has learnt how to manage this her whole life (albeit, by avoiding confrontation altogether) so she needs to understand that you have to develop your own way of managing it.

LegacyUser

Hey OP

I've gone through similar with my OH's mam. We aren't married, but have been together for a number of years now. I can be a very sensitive person at times so I guess sometimes I can get upset by harsh things people say.

But this one.. she is just amazing - not in a good way. Her comments would make your toes curl and she really doesn't hold back with her opinions. I went through 2 years of getting upset (not in front of her) with things she barked at me. Now though, I am actually well used to it and there have been a few occasions where I've had a intelligent answer back that shuts her up. Once, she stopped speaking to me for a week because I stood up for myself, when she made a really mean comment in front of the whole family when we were out for a meal. I wasn't even harsh, it was just the fact that I had an intelligent response back and it obviously surprised her. She is quite stroppy and childish too, so if you stand up to her, it's usually like the way a child would go off in a huff after not getting their own way.

She had a mean comment there on NYE when out for a family meal, said something really smart and horrible to me - my OH didn't hear (I've stopped telling him about her antics because there's been that many times now) and I just smiled sweetly and put on my best fake laugh and responded with a really nice I-Dont-Give-A-Sh*t answer and again, she blanked me for the rest of the evening.

I am really not saying you should start arguing etc with your MIL. Being harsh or looking like a loose cannon will only aggravate the situation. But if you can try your hardest to not care - like me, she will start to notice.

When she tries to belittle you with how you do things - swat those comments away like a housefly. Be nonchalant! Trust me, I know how hard it can be because I have been in tears many times with what has been said to me, but I honestly know that is just how my OH's mam is. She is not going to change so you may aswell try and deal with it when you have to see her.


Try to limit the visits too

Calhoun

OP i wouldnt be grinning and bearing it if its related to my own family, be it your parents or how you raise your child as its non of your inlaws business.

I would bring this one to a head if i was in your position as i really dislike when people ignore their responsibility to their family unit for the secondary family.

As Beruthiel has said i would limit contact with them as much as possible but if it was me they would not be setting foot over the threshold of my house again. If your wife wants to keep the under the thumb dynamic going she more than welcome to go visit them.

December2012

If you've just had a baby before Christmas now is not the right time to be doing anything that would distress your wife.

You probably should be cutting down on your sports time out of the house for a while to help your wife adjust to her post natal life. It might take the wind out of your mother in laws sails on this point.

Also the time after a baby is born can bring up lots of tension in very happy couples - the tiredness and hormones and stresses are the causes.

These are all by the by and not strictly related to your mother in law, but you did say she's asking about you going out and this time period is important to your wife.

That's something that you guys should work out between yourselves. There's no reason why this should be affecting your relationship.

Your wife is not responsible for what her folks say or do, and probably won't change their mind or habits. It's beyond her control.

And she's clearly not in a position to "stand up" to them given that she's just had a baby.

I think what's more important is that you support your wife in what she wants right now.

That's not to say you shut up. If you hear her criticising your wife you can immediately say something positive about your wife;

She "you're doing that bath wrong"
You (paying the in law no heed) "aw look how much he loves you giving him his bath love".

She says "you're feeding him wrong"
You / your wife "this works for us".

In fact "this works for us" is a great catch all phrase for parents to use when somebody's critical.

Keep telling your wife she's doing a great job so that her mother in law doesn't get in her head.

Pick your battles - now isn't the time for you to unleash your frustrations on her. Just ignore and avoid as much as possible.

Calhoun

While i agree with not upsetting your wife, i would be very careful about doing nothing for to long. You don't have to have it out with them but you can start cutting the contact now.

Why i say this is things are only going to get considerably worse in the short term, if they are as you describe they will be putting pressure on you both to get the baby christened and that comes with its own pains.

The last poster does have a point however, before doing anything consider if the stress with baby is contributing to your overall wanting to do something about it now or if it really has come to a head.

Dellnum

I don't think your in laws mean any harm. They are just the type of people who think they know best and your wife knows this and so she doesn't get annoyed, so why should you? Your mother in law took over in your house just because she thought she was helping out. You are taking all of this way too seriously OP, the woman is just an innocent woman enjoying her new grandchild. Let her have her say and just laugh at her and stop reading things into everything she is saying and doing. Take the lead from your wife, she understands her mother and is not interested in starting a row about anything with her, so my advice to you would be to chill out and enjoy the extra help and don't read any more into it.

clairefontaine

My mother is quite like what your MIL sounds like, and in my experience, boundaries are nigh impossible to keep with someone like this, so the only solution is to cut them out.

The baby, and "the baby needs a grandma" blackmail will be exploited to the full hilt.

Ever seen Everybody Loves Raymond?

alias06

Dellnum wrote: »

I don't think your in laws mean any harm. They are just the type of people who think they know best and your wife knows this and so she doesn't get annoyed, so why should you? Your mother in law took over in your house just because she thought she was helping out. You are taking all of this way too seriously OP, the woman is just an innocent woman enjoying her new grandchild. Let her have her say and just laugh at her and stop reading things into everything she is saying and doing. Take the lead from your wife, she understands her mother and is not interested in starting a row about anything with her, so my advice to you would be to chill out and enjoy the extra help and don't read any more into it.

I agree with a lot of the above. My own mother goes on this way. My sister has a new born baby in a foreign country. When my mother goes over to visit she loves to get stuck in and help out but of course she criticises the hell out of everything and tells my sister and her husband how they should be doing everything and the way everything should be. She means well but I'm sure it annoys my sisters husband.

This is your mother in law's way of carrying on. Your wife has made her peace with it. In many ways I'm sure your mother in law is a real help to your wife with the new arrival. You need to make your peace with it by avoiding your mother in law when you can, ignoring her criticisms and just not letting it get to you.

Matteroffact

Is this not the age old problem - THE INLAWS. All it is OP is you want to be left alone to live your life with your wife and child and your mother in law wants to be part of her daughter's life, like she always has been before you barged in. All of this is human nature and is natural. The thing is that when your mother in law dishes out any criticism your wife doesn't see it like you do because she knows her mother so well and she knows that she means well. They can say things to one another and neither of them take offense but you are there in the background afraid to open your mouth in case it offends the mother in law and this is what is building up in you.

You don't have to ignore the MIL's comments that you don't like and maybe if you voiced your opinion a bit more it might clear the air. If she says anything derogatory about you or your family stop her in her tracks and just say "ah now here, that's below the belt Maureen, I can't have you saying stuff like that", but the secret is be friendly and not aggressive when you say it.

When your wife got upset with the baby blues your MIL just felt that she was overwhelmed and tried to show her a different way to do things, thinking that this might help. You saw it as her criticizing.

Of course you don't have to retire, just because there is a baby in the house, so just tell your MIL that life goes on and that you have no intention of giving up your interests as that would be a huge mistake as you see it. Don't let her have the last word on how you conduct your life. That's all you have to do.

I just think OP that if you stand your ground on what you think and voice your opinion in a nice friendly way then your MIL will get the message and things will improve. The whole situation is building up in you because you are letting it, by not standing up for yourself. However, you have to do this in a nice friendly way or you will lose the situation entirely and it will look like you are losing the plot instead of standing your ground.

Your MIL goes home happily as if nothing is wrong because she has said her piece and nobody has disagreed with her. You are left fuming because you bottle it all up and then you take it out on your wife in order to let off steam.

You are not being oversensitive OP, just reacting like all son in laws do. What you have to do is have your say, but not in a confrontational way, and there is no need to have a special meeting about all of this. Just in future if your MIL says something that irks you then you just calmly say how you feel about it, but whatever you do remain calm, cool and collected and try smiling while you are saying it, and eventually your MIL will see the error of her ways.:D

Maura74

ElleEm wrote: »

If your wife is really intent on not getting involved or allowing you to address it with them, then I agree with Alias, in that your only option is to not engage with them. Speak to your wife about how difficult it is for you. If she still disagrees with you saying something to them, then you can tell her that you have to mind yourself in this.
If they live 2 hours away, then I am sure their visits are scheduled well in advance. If you can, arrange to be away or out for long periods of time.
You may still have to deal with your wife telling you what they say/ think/ feel about certain situations, so you may have to tell her to limit what she shares, but this is and clearly will further damage your relationship. Your wife has learnt how to manage this her whole life (albeit, by avoiding confrontation altogether) so she needs to understand that you have to develop your own way of managing it.

Some mothers have such control over their daughter that daughters feel guilty if they do not share everything with her and or sister. Sometimes mothers wants to be just like their daughters and that is sad.

Also it is difficult if the husband is an only child and independent and not used to wife family being so intrusive in his like.

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Neyite

Well, you may not be a Catholic, OP, but I think you are a saint :pac:

The thing is, even the least opinionated family members can have something to spout about when it comes to babies. And I think that you dont need to suck it up, but you dont need to take it either. You will find that when you nicely stand your ground, and be pleasantly firm they might back down a little. There does not need to be a confrontation, or a big talk or any showdown, just dont let their comments slide.

"this works for us"
"we are still deciding that"
"when we have decided, we'll let you know"
"no thanks, this is the way we prefer to do this"

One phrase I find very effective with someone who excels at those little passive aggressive comments that fly just under the radar- you'll know exactly what I mean - is: "Sorry, what was that?" in a mild, neutral tone of voice, but firmly, with a slight "watch it" warning as an undertone.
"Oh look, poor baby, Daddy cant even change your nappy right, haha"
"Sorry, what was that you said?" looking directly at them.

Either they will repeat it, if they are brave enough, or back track "oh it was just a joke", in which case, continue the mild tone of voice, you reply "ah, I see" The trick to stop them pulling the defensive/victim manipulation that you are taking them up wrong is the mild tone of voice.

I do think though that its not the time for your wife to confront, if that becomes necessary. She has just had a baby, is hormonal, and its time for you three to bond as a family. Foster that with both of you. That you three are a family, and THIS family come first now.

Nor do I think that you should disappear whenever they are around. Mainly because they will a) critisise you to your wife, make remarks on how unsupportive and absent you are etc, driving a deeper wedge between you, b) convince your wife to use outdated practices on the baby that goes against current best practice, such as putting rice in bottles, sleeping on tummies etc. and c) being there, being hands on, and being able to rebut or support your wife when they critisise is what SHE and your baby needs right now.

Best of luck!

Whiteladder

Firstly thanks a million for all the responses. it is great to get some feedback and particularly from the different points of view.

alias06 wrote: »

Ignore them, avoid them, don't let them win.

That has been my tactic for the last while to be honest. I’ve done my best to ignore the comments. I avoid them as best I can in that I limit the amount of times I go with my wife to visit them. But I don’t like the avoidance tactic, whilst on the one hand I know it upsets my wife, but I have said to her she cannot expect mush else when she is unwilling to deal with the situation/ I myself just don’t believe that the only way to deal with a difficult situation is to avoid it. In saying that, if it is my only option then so be it.

Beruthiel wrote: »

But, your wife also has a responsibility towards you and your child. She might need reminding of that.

Beruthiel wrote: »

I understand that your wife is caught between a rock and a hard place. She doesn't want to rock the boat.
However, you need to make it clear that this is affecting your relationship.
Were I in your shoes, I just could not take it. I couldn't.
I would curtail their visits to my house.
I would leave the house before they arrived.
I wouldn't visit them.
I would avoid contact as much as possible, for my own sanity.

You really and truly need to sit your wife down and explain that you're at breaking point with regards to this. You need to make her understand what it's doing to you and she needs to help you come up with workable solutions for your future lives together.

But mostly, and I mean this, your wife needs to grow a back bone and tell her mother to butt out. Seriously, the woman does need to be told to stop interfering and it is up to her daughter to put her straight on that.

When they left at the weekend I made it very clear to my wife where I stood on everything. I was very angry over the whole thing. I told her that she was as guilty as them for allowing them to continue behaving like this. I told her that I was disgusted with the fact that she was happy enough to see our relationship suffer as their expense. I also told her that as long as she let it continue I would not be going to visit them and they are not welcome to visit us. It upset her a lot, but I felt I needed to do it for the long term good of our own relationship. She gets upset by their comments too. I’ve seen her reaction to some of their comments and there have been a couple of occasions, when she goes to visit them alone, that they have gone to town on her over things and have reduced her to tears. I told her on Saturday that I know she is a non confrontational person, but that is not a reason for others to walk all over her, particularly when it upsets her/

Do you really think it is up to my wife to put them straight? I am of the opinion that is anything is to be said, I should be the one saying it as I am the one who wants something done about it. I am just concerned that it may do more harm than good to my wife and I’s relationship in the long run.

I've been there! wrote: »

But this one.. she is just amazing - not in a good way. Her comments would make your toes curl and she really doesn't hold back with her opinions. I went through 2 years of getting upset (not in front of her) with things she barked at me.

My wifes mother is a hard one to figure. She is the type that is always smiling and laughing and has a very pleasant disposition, and the comments are delivered from behind this. She doesn’t come across as a cold, hard, callous bitch. But within the pleasant disposition and the fussing she does over everyone comes the comments, opinions and judgements. At times when I’ve been really pissed off I’ve made comments back and contradicted her, but she is blissfully unaware of it.

Calhoun wrote: »

OP i wouldnt be grinning and bearing it if its related to my own family, be it your parents or how you raise your child as its non of your inlaws business.

As regards it being related to my own family, my parents are separated and they tend to look down their nose at them for that. I come from a stereotypical Irish catholic family and I am probably the stereotypical Irish male, something my wifes parents were afraid of their life of her marrying. My mother smokes, so there have been comments about that. My Dad used to drink a bit (I emphasized used to) so there have been comments about that too. All this despite the fact that they have spoken to my dad for all of 30 minutes, ever. My mum spent a weekend up there once before we married. Yet this was enough for them to draw all the conclusions on my parents.

December2012 wrote: »

If you've just had a baby before Christmas now is not the right time to be doing anything that would distress your wife.

Very fair point and is why I didn’t say anything to her parents at the weekend. Unfortunately this probably resulted in me saying it all to my wife which wasn't the wisest thing considering your above comment. But i was/am genuinely at breaking point and am concerned for our relationship in the medium to long term.

December2012 wrote: »

You probably should be cutting down on your sports time out of the house for a while to help your wife adjust to her post natal life. It might take the wind out of your mother in laws sails on this point.

Correct. And I have done so by approximately half. I have also changed my commute to work in order to be home earlier. I used to cycle/run in and out but am driving now in order to be at home more. Let me stress though, these were decisions taken for the good of my family, not because the MIL was sticking her beak in. Let me just say, I would pack everything in tomorrow at the drop of a hat without hesitation for my family if I needed to. Another important point to stress is that my wife has absolutely no issue, and never had had an issue, with the time I spend out of the house.

December2012 wrote: »

Also the time after a baby is born can bring up lots of tension in very happy couples - the tiredness and hormones and stresses are the causes.

December2012 wrote: »

These are all by the by and not strictly related to your mother in law, but you did say she's asking about you going out and this time period is important to your wife.

That's something that you guys should work out between yourselves. There's no reason why this should be affecting your relationship.

Ya there are stresses and tensions, but none between me and my wife, at least until last weekend. My wife has absolutely no issue and has never had to bring up the time I spend out of the house. The only person that raised it was her mother. The reason it bugged me is for the very same reason you wrote yourself above “That's something that you guys should work out between yourselves.” It’s nobody elses business

December2012 wrote: »

She "you're doing that bath wrong"
You (paying the in law no heed) "aw look how much he loves you giving him his bath love".

She says "you're feeding him wrong"
You / your wife "this works for us".

In fact "this works for us" is a great catch all phrase for parents to use when somebody's critical.

I have tried this in many guises, as mentioned above, but it goes clean out over her head. Regarding the "this works for us" comment, good advice and I’ll be trying it out. Thanks.

Dellnum wrote: »

I don't think your in laws mean any harm.

I agree, the probably don’t, but show me one interfering person that does mean harm?

Dellnum wrote: »

They are just the type of people who think they know best and your wife knows this and so she doesn't get annoyed, so why should you?

That’s the thing though, my wife does get annoyed/upset.

Dellnum wrote: »

so my advice to you would be to chill out and enjoy the extra help and don't read any more into it.

What help. While she says she’s visiting to help, she doesn’t really do anything. She just sits there directing operations telling everyone what they are doing wrong.

clairefontaine wrote: »

Ever seen Everybody Loves Raymond?

No, tell me more?

alias06

Whiteladder wrote:

When they left at the weekend I made it very clear to my wife where I stood on everything. I was very angry over the whole thing. I told her that she was as guilty as them for allowing them to continue behaving like this. I told her that I was disgusted with the fact that she was happy enough to see our relationship suffer as their expense. I also told her that as long as she let it continue I would not be going to visit them and they are not welcome to visit us. It upset her a lot, but I felt I needed to do it for the long term good of our own relationship. She gets upset by their comments too. I’ve seen her reaction to some of their comments and there have been a couple of occasions, when she goes to visit them alone, that they have gone to town on her over things and have reduced her to tears. I told her on Saturday that I know she is a non confrontational person, but that is not a reason for others to walk all over her, particularly when it upsets her/

Do you really think it is up to my wife to put them straight? I am of the opinion that is anything is to be said, I should be the one saying it as I am the one who wants something done about it. I am just concerned that it may do more harm than good to my wife and I’s relationship in the long run.

If you confront your in-laws about this I expect you will get an almighty backlash. They will say how dare you, how ungrateful you are, etc etc. If you think they are critical of you now, wait until they feel that you have criticised them. They are not going to change and they will resist any attempt to change them tooth and nail. They are not going to see this situation from your point of view.

You told your wife that "she was as guilty as them for allowing them to continue behaving like this". Your in-laws are difficult people. Your wife has years of experience in dealing with them and she has worked out a way of coping with their carry on as best she can. She knows they are not going to change. Do you not think she has reasoned and pleaded with them many times before? And what happened? Nothing.

I myself have plenty of experience in dealing with difficult people. And I can tell you that trying to change them is not the way to go. You need to say to yourself these people are unreasonable and irrationale and its their issue and you don't need to take personally or get bothered by anything they say. In fact, if your in-laws are as bad as you say they are then it shouldn't even matter what they think of you. And you are lucky they live two hours away so you can arrange to be out of the house when they call over.

Also remember this is a difficult time in a lot of relationships i.e. after the birth of the first child, so starting a war with the in-laws would be a bad idea, your wife doesn't need that extra stress - I'm sure she is doing her best to keep everything on an even keel.

In summary, your in-laws are not going to change and its how you deal with this that will dictate the outcome here.

Calhoun

alias06 wrote: »

If you confront your in-laws about this I expect you will get an almighty backlash. They will say how dare you, how ungrateful you are, etc etc. If you think they are critical of you now, wait until they feel that you have criticised them. They are not going to change and they will resist any attempt to change them tooth and nail. They are not going to see this situation from your point of view.

I don't understand how anyone should be grateful for grown adults coming into their own home and having a go at them or worse treating them as lesser being all in the name of being family. I agree however the in-laws are not going to see it from the op's point of view and realistically its not their problem as this is how they have been allowed to behave.

The core problem is that a situation was allowed to progress where there was no consequences for bad behavior and now the inlaws think they have full reign to do what they like. OP you have a right to be annoyed that your wife is being so passive and allowing them to treat you as second class citizens but right now is not the time to have a go at her.

It probably is getting close to the time were their actions having consequences, if i was in your position i would be working with your wife to limit the time they have with your family unit. You can't be bothered about what they say if your not around and when they are around you can follow some of the good advice on this thread and ask them to repeat what they say.

You really have to start thinking about the long term game now, acting as they are with just the two of you is fine but now you have children. What do you want them to be hearing when they are visiting or if you happen to leave your children with them for the night ect. I grew up in a family with a similar dynamic and all ill say is little ears are always listening and its not nice to hear someone have a go at your parents or other grand parents.

alias06

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't understand how anyone should be grateful for grown adults coming into their own home and having a go at them or worse treating them as lesser being all in the name of being family.

I'm not saying the in-laws are in the right here. But that is how they will see it. If he has a go at them they will fight back and list all the good things they have done for the OP and his wife and they will list all the OP's failings. The OP wants to go down the road of trying to change his in-laws. Its very unlikely there will be a good outcome if he does this.

desertcircus

Sit them down and tell them that while their help is gratefully received, unsolicited advice and criticism related to how you raise your child is not. Make it clear that it is causing needless stress and that while your wife may prefer if you didn't bring it up, she is in agreement with you that their interjections are unhelpful and problematic, and that if it continues, they will see less of their grandchild. This isn't reasonable behaviour, and that needs to be made clear.

Beruthiel

Whiteladder wrote: »

When they left at the weekend I made it very clear to my wife where I stood on everything. I was very angry over the whole thing.

Having a rant at her though is not really constructive.
You both need to have a calm discussion resulting in workable solutions at the end of it.

I’ve seen her reaction to some of their comments and there have been a couple of occasions, when she goes to visit them alone, that they have gone to town on her over things and have reduced her to tears.

Then, the question needs to be asked, why does your wife put herself in that position?
I also have a very overbearing, opinionated, religious, matriarchal mother.
I put so much distance between us that when I do actually visit she's happy to see me.

Do you really think it is up to my wife to put them straight?

I do.
For the following reasons:
They are her parents and it is down to her to sort out their relationship together for the greater good of herself and her family.
If you do it and the sh!t hits the fan, you'll be the one to get all the blame, from your wife and from her parents.

I am just concerned that it may do more harm than good to my wife and I’s relationship in the long run.

Oh, for sure it will.
Putting myself in your shoes, I would find this kind of situation a head melt.
If my partner were to refuse to tell their parents to back off then I would do as I said previously:
Refuse to have them visit the house.
If they do turn up, leave - go to the pub/cinema/whatever.
Never visit them again.
Avoid all possible contact.

alias06

desertcircus wrote: »

Sit them down and tell them that while their help is gratefully received, unsolicited advice and criticism related to how you raise your child is not. Make it clear that it is causing needless stress and that while your wife may prefer if you didn't bring it up, she is in agreement with you that their interjections are unhelpful and problematic, and that if it continues, they will see less of their grandchild. This isn't reasonable behaviour, and that needs to be made clear.

Again trying to change the in-laws. Even if you did this and even if they listened and even if they tried to reign in the criticism you know they would be still thinking the same thing. They would give a nod of the head or look sideways and you would know they would disapprove. And you would have brought a lot of unpleasantness out into the open for nothing.

It would be way OTT to start making threats about not being allowed to see the grandchild. While they may be hard to get along with, the in-laws are not such terrible people that they should be derprived of seeing their grandchild.

OP, I do empathise with you in having to deal with difficult in-laws. But it is your decision to take everything they say personally. If this is their way of carrying on and always has been then it really has nothing to do with you and you should ignore it and minimise contact with them. And let your wife tell them in her own way not to be interfering so much.

December2012

For now, the best thing for you to do is rant to somebody so that you get to blow off steam. But not your wife.

Big Bag of Chips

I think it's a nice idea to sit then down and "clear the air"..... In theory. But life isn't TV and things rarely go according to that plan!

But I do agree with standing your ground when they are around. Both my mother & mil would be of the know-it-all-have-an-opinion-on-everything variety! (My mother once explained step-by-step instructions to me of how to return something to the customer services dept of a shop... I was 23!) If I am doing something with one of my kids (especially when they were babies) and they tried to take over, I'd just say "No, its ok. I'm doing it." And we did use the line "this is the way we do it/this is the way he likes it done" etc... I used to also listen to what they advised. If it was helpful I'd do it. If it wasn't, I'd make some non-committal noises, and carry on doing things my own way.

Both women have now been "trained" to back off... But I still see they would butt in with other grandkids.

There's no need for a big sit down talk. Just as you go, either agree (and disregard) or correct them with "no, this is the way we've always done it".

Just to add.... The way you do things is just 1 way, their way might be different, but not necessarily wrong! It took me 2 or 3 children to realise that On my first I would have been very particular about how things were done... By No3 I realised I could relax a bit and let others do more

meeeeh

Personally I would suffer through. They live two hours away so you only see them every so often anyway. How often is this an issue? Once per month?

Just as a side note. When you have children everybody is an expert or has an opinion. If not to your face it is behind your back, in the media... you will always do something wrong, so better get used to criticism. I got plenty of advice from my parents and my partner's parents that I just ignored. Pick your battles and if somebody offers to feed or change your child, let them and get a bit of a break for yourself.

Whiteladder

Thanks a million guys for all the feedback. Lots of nuggets here to keep in mind. Gonna take the weekend to think about things and maybe chat to my wife and see how to deal with things and take it from there. Will keep you posted on developments.

Maura74

Do you really think it is up to my wife to put them straight? I am of the opinion that is anything is to be said, I should be the one saying it as I am the one who wants something done about it. I am just concerned that it may do more harm than good to my wife and I’s relationship in the long run.

If your wife’s parents only visits once a month than you should consider yourself lucky, however if their visits is having negative effect on your relationship then I feel that it’s is up to your wife to advise her mother if either of you need advice on how to bring up your child then you will ask for it.

tinkerbell

OP, I feel bad for your wife. Not only does she have her parents criticising her, she also has her husband giving out to her over her parents criticisms and then her husband also goes off a couple of nights every week to play sports while she is at home looking after a newborn that is only a few weeks old. Your statement of "cutting down on the sports" is pretty bad form IMO. You shouldn't be playing any sports right now as clearly your wife needs you. She needs you at home right now, not off playing sports. You're at work all day (understandably as you need to earn a living) but you don't NEED to play sports a few times a week for the time being. You NEED to be there with your wife and newborn. She's just given birth, she is still fragile and no doubt exhausted and over-whelmed. She might say she's fine with you heading off but I doubt she actually feels that way.

Start acting like a supportive husband and put her ahead of your sports and stop lecturing her about her parents. She probably doesn't have the energy right now to start arguing with them. Instead, when they criticise say like other posters suggested - this is what works for us and stand your ground. They'll soon get the message.

deisemum

I'm rushing off somewhere in a few mins but just wanted to say I've been in the same position as the OP in the past and the inlaws just got worse over time. It caused rows between my husband and myself so much so that we separated for a while and the one thing that the counsellor stated was that yes I was right to expect my husband to stand up for me but there are some adult children who are unable to stand up to their parents or say what should be said because of how they've been conditioned that way by their parents over the years.

She also told my husband in no uncertain terms that I was an adult in my own right and that if he wasn't able to speak up for me then he had to realise that I was perfectly entitled to defend myself and pull them up on everything they said that offended me until they got the message that they were not going to be allowed to get away with their sly put downs and nasty comments.

She said it was ok to bite your tongue the first time but to keep biting your tongue to keep the peace doesn't work in the long run and that often when a person actually has respect for themselves and pulls up someone who's disrespecting them or putting them down that they may not like it initially but they may end up respecting you for standing up for yourself. She was spot on with that one in my case.

If you don't respect yourself and let people continue to speak out of turn then don't expect others to respect you. You teach people how to treat you.

There's no way I'd let someone into my home and disrespect me or my family.

Whiteladder

tinkerbell wrote: »

OP, I feel bad for your wife. Not only does she have her parents criticising her, she also has her husband giving out to her over her parents criticisms and then her husband also goes off a couple of nights every week to play sports while she is at home looking after a newborn that is only a few weeks old. Your statement of "cutting down on the sports" is pretty bad form IMO. You shouldn't be playing any sports right now as clearly your wife needs you. She needs you at home right now, not off playing sports. You're at work all day (understandably as you need to earn a living) but you don't NEED to play sports a few times a week for the time being. You NEED to be there with your wife and newborn. She's just given birth, she is still fragile and no doubt exhausted and over-whelmed. She might say she's fine with you heading off but I doubt she actually feels that way.

Start acting like a supportive husband and put her ahead of your sports and stop lecturing her about her parents. She probably doesn't have the energy right now to start arguing with them. Instead, when they criticise say like other posters suggested - this is what works for us and stand your ground. They'll soon get the message.

Well fancy meeting you here dear Mother In Law!! In fairness, isnt it between me an my wife regarding how often i'm out of the house. As i said earlier my wife has absolutely no issue with this, and I trust her completely to be telling me the truth. Your assumption that she is not telling the truth on this is a bit of an insult. She's a remarkably honest lady and I cannot recall a single instance where i have heard her tell a lie in all my time of knowing her. That is the truth.

You incorrectly assume that my wife is stuck at home with our child 24/7. How do you suppose to know this? She actually has her running group one night a week and pilates a second. So she's out as much as I am. Not that that matters, as it wasnt part of the issue in the first place. I just wanted to illustrate how wrong you are in the assumptions you are making in the tangent you're after going off in.

Where did I say that i NEEDED to play sport? In fact I think I said in an earlier post that i'd happily pack it all in at the drop of a hat if needs be.

You also assume i am working "all day", I dont recall saying that in any of my posts. Where did you get this from?

In fact you have made your judgement of me entirely on assumptions and probabilities. Apart from the ones i've mentioned above you talk about my wife being 'overwhelmed', 'exhausted', 'fragile' etc etc. None of which is fact. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I could go into the facts regarding how my wife is coping but I won't waste everyones time, only to say everything is going great with baby and she is really loving motherhood. I'm sorry that may not suit your penchant for assumptions and dramatics.

Thanks though for your input.

Taltos

OP - please keep your replies civil or we will be forced to close this thread. Posters here have only the limited information you provide to go on, so making assumptions - even incorrect ones should be expected. If you have an issue with a post report it, but being sarcastic in your response is not on here.

Thanks
Taltos

Chattastrophe!

Both my parents and my parents-in-law have very clear ideas of how we should raise our son - from how to burp him, to how we should baptise him even though we're atheist, etc.

My motto is - smile and nod. Appease them. If they ask about baptism - "We're in no rush to make any decisions on his behalf, so if he wants to be baptised, he'll do so with our support, but it will be his own decision, when he's old enough. " If they offer advice about how to put him to sleep, nappies, bottles etc, I'll say "Haha isn't it funny how best practice varies with time! This is the way I'm doing it, thanks for your opinion, I'll keep it in mind."

I'd hate for my boyfriend to actually fall out with my parents, and if I were you, I'd avoid it if at all possible. Just smile, nod, always be on your girlfriend's side but don't ever engage in arguments -it's not worth your while.

Maura74

I do not think OP wants to fall out with his in-laws. He is finding it difficult though to accept that his in-laws do not have enough confidence in them to bring up their son and the in-laws knows what is best for their son rather him and his wife.

In my opinion appeasing the in-laws would be condoning their behavior, I feel they would take umbrage if it was reversed i.e., if the OP and his wife was advising them how to live their lives.

Fridge

The way I see it, they are your family now too. I see why you would initially take the lead from your wife on this, but if she is upset by the criticism too, and especially if she has the baby blues, maybe it's time to stick up for her and yourself. I know it's not what most people are saying here, and it seems like a risk, but I think any message can be conveyed effectively if it's communicated in the right way.

Maybe the next time they're in your house (not the next time you're in theirs) and they start, nip it in the bud and lay down the law. What are they going to do - take your wife back to their house? You're her husband, and both of you have a job to do. Advice is one thing, but all that hassle is unnecessary.

Like I said, you're family. They'll probably get over it and maybe respect you more for voicing your opinion. The in-laws in my family didn't really like each other but clearly words had been said in the past, so they knew how not to behave in each other's presence.