Southampton Up For Sale?

Francie Barrett

Really thought this would have had its own thread at this stage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25755711

When the end came, Nicola Cortese only had time to say goodbye to those closest to him at Southampton.
There was emotion, on both sides, as he said goodbye to manager Mauricio Pochettino, the club secretary and his personal assistant among others.
It was a scenario they feared had been possible since it became clear Cortese's vision and the one held by the club's reclusive owner, Katharina Liebherr, were worlds apart.
...
The problems began at the end of last season and although an uneasy truce was reached in May, by the time the season had begun, it was clear all was not well. Liebherr, who was left the club by her father Marcus following his sudden death in 2010, had no interest in Southampton and no knowledge of football - she wanted to sell the club.
...
The players bought into his vision, wholeheartedly. So much so, that at least one leading Southampton player has a clause in his contract that links his own future to Cortese's. The worst case scenario for the club is that manager follows chairman and players follow manager.
...
Nothing was left to chance. Everything was planned, analysed, discussed. The club's poor away form was one issue. Why did they struggle?

Cortese refused to accept the club's geographical location as an explanation. Players were asked to fill out questionnaires. What time did they wake up at home? What were their habits? Did their children wake them, did the dog? The results were analysed and changes were made.

Then the 45-year-old focused on the environment. Now, when Southampton travel away from home, the hotel is often booked for two nights rather than one. On the first night, club staff arrive and clean the already pristine rooms. They vacuum up every particle of dust that might cause illness or carry a bug.
Then bespoke mattresses are placed on each bed, tailored to each player. The duvets, the pillow cases and the sheets are washed and ironed by the club, using the same washing powder and the same methods. Wherever the players are, their bed smells and feels the same.

The whole situation has been awfully managed. It's just ridiculously that the owner should decide that she no longer wants nothing to do with the club in the middle of the season. The big question for Southampton now is whether they will find an owner. If not, could we end up in an Anzhi type situation where the club is asset stripped?

Either way, things look pretty bleak (for Southampton at least).

I am pie

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Really thought this would have had its own thread at this stage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25755711

The whole situation has been awfully managed. It's just ridiculously that the owner should decide that she no longer wants nothing to do with the club in the middle of the season. The big question for Southampton now is whether they will find an owner. If not, could we end up in an Anzhi type situation where the club is asset stripped?

Either way, things look pretty bleak (for Southampton at least).

Better that they are sold rather than suffocated with no investment, not sure what else could be done in the scenario when the father passed away so quickly.

Obviously the daughter inherited something she had no knowledge of or passion for, something which probably came with some emotional baggage associated with memories of her now dead father.

I don't think it's fair to villify the woman. It's a very unfortunate scenario, hopefully they sell quicky and to good investors. It's a viable asset and the doom and gloom scenario need not come to pass.

Pochettino owes it to the club to see out the sale, meet the new owners and assess what the plan is.

Francie Barrett

I am pie wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to villify the woman. It's a very unfortunate scenario, hopefully they sell quicky and to good investors. It's a viable asset and the doom and gloom scenario need not come to pass.

That would be true but for the fact that her father died 3.5 years ago. Why decide to put the club up for sale mid season?

I am pie

Francie Barrett wrote: »

That would be true but for the fact that her father died 3.5 years ago. Why decide to put the club up for sale mid season?

I imagine that she has got past grieving, got past the "honouring her fathers wishes" thing and is putting her business affairs in order.

What's the issue, she isn't committed to the club, you can't suddenly expect the woman to want to take southampton fwd if she hasn't any interest or passion in it. Possibly Cortese has forced the issue by demanding mid season tranfer funds..he asked, got a no and walked. At that stage the unravelling starts, best to sell up and get out before the asset you have is not longer a top 10 prem side and instead struggling nr the bottom.

It's a viable asset now (sadly that's what football clubs are these days), a quick sale to right investor helps all.

From a Liverpool perspective look how we have benefitted from dumping owners who backed out on investment promises. Hopefully SFC can find new owners quicker than we did.

death1234567

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Why decide to put the club up for sale mid season?

Because now they can be sold as an "established" premier league team as there's no chance they'll go down this season. Smart girl, Southampton are probably at maximum value now so its a good time to sell. If a new owner buys them the only hope is that he spends a ton of his own money to get them to progress to top 6 otherwise midtable/backwards is the path for them.

mike65

Soton can be sold for 200m plus easily to some snake oil salesmen from the Arabian Gulf/USA/Russia/Asia

LostBoy101

mike65 wrote: »

Soton can be sold for 200m plus easily to some snake oil salesmen from the Arabian Gulf/USA/Russia/Asia

Very good chances of this happening and could be either a downfall or master stroke.

batistuta9

what's really going on with Cortese here?

is it out of loyalty/respect to her father he's resigning, ego to see their plan through or being scared of his position/for the club with new owners

& would someone from his background not be in a good position to know/try and find a buyer that'll let things carry on as they are

I am pie

batistuta9 wrote: »

what's really going on with Cortese here?

is it out of loyalty/respect to her father he's resigning, ego to see their plan through or being scared of his position/for the club with new owners

& would someone from his background not be in a good position to know/try and find a buyer that'll let things carry on as they are

I guess he knew that by leaving he was forcing the situation, maybe the owners thought they could get by, make no investment and return a profit on the asset (SFC) for a few more years on the back of his good work.

Once he pushes the button and resigns the asset is at risk and depreciating quicker, hence they have to get out and sell up.

Horrible to be speaking about a football club in such cold terms, but that's how I see it having played out. I image they thought he wouldn't jump and that they could continue without the required investment.

batistuta9

I am pie wrote: »

I guess he knew that by leaving he was forcing the situation, maybe the owners thought they could get by, make no investment and return a profit on the asset (SFC) for a few more years on the back of his good work.

Once he pushes the button and resigns the asset is at risk and depreciating quicker, hence they have to get out and sell up.

Horrible to be speaking about a football club in such cold terms, but that's how I see it having played out. I image they thought he wouldn't jump and that they could continue without the required investment.

it seems to be going since the end of last season though - maybe even longer - and they invested in the summer, he knew she was thinking about selling so why would he not try to find someone himself, who he'd trust, to buy the club?

walrusgumble

I am pie wrote: »

Better that they are sold rather than suffocated with no investment, not sure what else could be done in the scenario when the father passed away so quickly.

Obviously the daughter inherited something she had no knowledge of or passion for, something which probably came with some emotional baggage associated with memories of her now dead father.

I don't think it's fair to villify the woman. It's a very unfortunate scenario, hopefully they sell quicky and to good investors. It's a viable asset and the doom and gloom scenario need not come to pass.

Pochettino owes it to the club to see out the sale, meet the new owners and assess what the plan is.

The first step for any new owner, or a prerequisite should be (a) consult with thr former chairman ,find out what he wanted in order to stay, that will b hard as many big boys will come looking and (b) talk to the manager, will he stay

I know nothing is foreseeable in this age, but if those two guys are kept, the money side may take care of itself.it is a potentially very good investment. Their youth academy is immensely successful in producing young talent.

Imagine, many thought they were bonkers sacking their last manager

kstand

I know its sounds sexist but I bet if it was Vogue magazine she inherited she wouldnt be selling it. At the end of the day she has a duty to the fans and the people of Southampton to leave the club in good hands. Surely its share value has risen dramatically in the last 12 months alone?

Lovely Bloke

kstand wrote: »

I know its sounds sexist but I bet if it was Vogue magazine she inherited she wouldnt be selling it. At the end of the day she has a duty to the fans and the people of Southampton to leave the club in good hands. Surely its share value has risen dramatically in the last 12 months alone?

Absolute claptrap. She owes the club nothing. Her father was the owner, not her. She has zero interest in football.

Do you poke your nose in all of your father's business?

As for your first sentence --> :rolleyes:

kstand

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Absolute claptrap. She owes the club nothing. Her father was the owner, not her. She has zero interest in football.

Do you poke your nose in all of your father's business?

As for your first sentence --> :rolleyes:

She has inherited a football club - there are thousands of season ticket holders who work hard and pay to see their team and club going. How the hell can she "owe the coub nothing"? She owns the bloody thing!!!! My first sentence goes back to her having zero interest in football - but she has inherited the club and she has a duty to make sure it is left in safe hands.

5starpool

As for share price, if it is in private hands there won't be shares.

Agueroooo

Pochettino: "I am staying as #SaintsFC manager. I have a professional responsibility to everyone at the club

.

Dempsey

Mauricio Pochettino "I am staying as Southampton manager. I have a professional responsibility to everyone at the Club and the fans."

Bit of good news for Southampton fans

Lovely Bloke

kstand wrote: »

She has inherited a football club - there are thousands of season ticket holders who work hard and pay to see their team and club going. How the hell can she "owe the coub nothing"? She owns the bloody thing!!!!

It's hardly her fault her father bought the club, she hardly advised him to do it did she?

Again, are you responsible for everything your father does?

kstand wrote: »

My first sentence goes back to her having zero interest in football - .

And your extremely sexist assumption that she must have an interest is fashion. Well done.

kstand wrote: »

but she has inherited the club and she has a duty to make sure it is left in safe hands.

Nope, she has no such thing. If she wants rid, she is entitled to get rid, howsoever she chooses.


This is what happens when clubs are owned by private individuals.

Tough shít Southampton.

kstand

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

It's hardly her fault her father bought the club, she hardly advised him to do it did she?

Again, are you responsible for everything your father does?


And your extremely sexist assumption that she must have an interest is fashion. Well done.




Nope, she has no such thing. If she wants rid, she is entitled to get rid, howsoever she chooses.


This is what happens when clubs are owned by private individuals.

Tough shít Southampton.

What bit of "she owns the club" do you not get?
Yeah, her father owned the club, full marks for that - but now she owns the club. Do you understand that much even?

death1234567

kstand wrote: »

She has inherited a football club - there are thousands of season ticket holders who work hard and pay to see their team and club going. How the hell can she "owe the coub nothing"? She owns the bloody thing!!!!

You could say the same about any business that owners have a responsibility to the employees/suppliers/customer's etc. but in reality they don't. They have to do what's best for them, capitalism in action. Unfortunately in England all football clubs are businesses and are run as such which results in Portsmouth, Birmingham type disasters.

WoollyRedHat

kstand wrote: »

I know its sounds sexist but I bet if it was Vogue magazine she inherited she wouldnt be selling it. At the end of the day she has a duty to the fans and the people of Southampton to leave the club in good hands. Surely its share value has risen dramatically in the last 12 months alone?

I know you've been pulled up on this before, but the stupidity of this statement, even taking the sexist aspect aside is breathtaking.

By the by, if she were to own Vogue magazine, there are still consumers, and like ticket holders for football, there are subscribers for magazines.

And both are businesses.

Lovely Bloke

kstand wrote: »

What bit of "she owns the club" do you not get?
Yeah, her father owned the club, full marks for that - but now she owns the club. Do you understand that much even?

I know she owns it, that means she can do whatever she likes with it. Including not putting mroe money into something she is not interested in.

Or get rid of it.

Do you understand that even?

She has absolutely no duty to the supporters, whatever that is supposed to mean.

What duty? Have they some right to watch EPL football? Have the some right to an owner who cares?

No, they don't.

Bizarre.

Michael D Not Higgins

Is this the same Liebherr family as the plant closing in Kerry?

Dempsey

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Is this the same Liebherr family as the plant closing in Kerry?

Yep

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Liebherr

I am pie

Football clubs would do well to insert some clauses when they sell the club. Minimum years ownership, min % of investment against revenue etc etc...otherwise this can happen.

She owes nobody anything, she inherited an asset we she does not feel qualified to maintain. Needs to change hands asap. Anything else is sentimental claptrap which will have no bearing on this womans thought process.

Private ownership = club potentially becomes an asset in a portfolio, does not mean the acceptance of burden or debt of honour to the average fan. Sad but true.

Corholio

Just shows, as if we didn't know already, that you should never believe a single thing managers or most people in football tell you.

Francie Barrett

Whatever about her putting the club up for sale, she should not have ditched Cortese, who seems by all accounts a hardworking and competent CEO.

kstand

Wooly and Baldy - Southampton is a town in the south of England with a population of just over quarter of a million. It has one EPL club. This club ahs been around for over 128 years - a lot longer than any of the owners or players etc. The club belongs essentailly to the people of Southampton, they are the ones who pay for season tickets etc and follow their home town club. Unfortunately we live in an age where foreign owners have come in to buy football clubs in England, some with ulterior financial motives - but essentially it is down to the same thing - they are mere guardians of that club for the poeple, in this case the people of Southampton. It is nothing short of disgraceful imo that the likes of Vincent Tan for example should take over Cardiff and change the club colours from blue to red as red is a lucky colour where he comes frm in Asia. The same with Mr Allam at Hull wanting the change the same frm Hull City to Hull Tigers. Who is he to think he is above the history of Hull City, the history of the town of Hull to come in and go and rename the football club?
In the case of Miss Liebherr. Yes, her father died and she inherited Southampton football club. She has every right not to be interested in football - but she does have a duty to the club she owns and to the town of Southampton. The club has done fantastically well in recent times but what ahs come out over the last few days does not sound to be in the interests of the club. By all means she can sell it - but not in the middle of a season, especially when they are doing as well as they have done in over 20 years. The clubs value is not going to suffer - so why sell it now? Wait until the end of the season, speak to the supporters groups and see what they have to say. She has an unspoken duty to try and leave the club in as good a pair of hands as is possible.
Its a cancer in the game of football in England at last - foreign owners who are out to make a buck. Lots of clubs have suffered and until the game here goes the same way as it has in Germany, where the fans have a say in the running and ownership of the club, then this cancer will continue to exist.

elefant

kstand wrote: »

Wooly and Baldy - Southampton is a town in the south of England with a population of just over quarter of a million. It has one EPL club. This club ahs been around for over 128 years - a lot longer than any of the owners or players etc. The club belongs essentailly to the people of Southampton, they are the ones who pay for season tickets etc and follow their home town club. Unfortunately we live in an age where foreign owners have come in to buy football clubs in England, some with ulterior financial motives - but essentially it is down to the same thing - they are mere guardians of that club for the poeple, in this case the people of Southampton. It is nothing short of disgraceful imo that the likes of Vincent Tan for example should take over Cardiff and change the club colours from blue to red as red is a lucky colour where he comes frm in Asia. The same with Mr Allam at Hull wanting the change the same frm Hull City to Hull Tigers. Who is he to think he is above the history of Hull City, the history of the town of Hull to come in and go and rename the football club?
In the case of Miss Liebherr. Yes, her father died and she inherited Southampton football club. She has every right not to be interested in football - but she does have a duty to the club she owns and to the town of Southampton. The club has done fantastically well in recent times but what ahs come out over the last few days does not sound to be in the interests of the club. By all means she can sell it - but not in the middle of a season, especially when they are doing as well as they have done in over 20 years. The clubs value is not going to suffer - so why sell it now? Wait until the end of the season, speak to the supporters groups and see what they have to say. She has an unspoken duty to try and leave the club in as good a pair of hands as is possible.
Its a cancer in the game of football in England at last - foreign owners who are out to make a buck. Lots of clubs have suffered and until the game here goes the same way as it has in Germany, where the fans have a say in the running and ownership of the club, then this cancer will continue to exist.

So many things in this are just plain wrong. The fans don't own the club, she does. The fans are consumers, and she owns a company. And she doesn't have have any 'unspoken duty'.

It's not very romantic, but she owns it, so she can do what she pleases.

kstand

elefant wrote: »

So many things in this are just plain wrong. The fans don't own the club, she does. The fans are consumers, and she owns a company. And she doesn't have have any 'unspoken duty'.

It's not very romantic, but she owns it, so she can do what she pleases.

The club and the fans will be there long after she is dead and gone. Its their hometown club. Fans are not just consumers, they are the lifeblood of the game and of any club. Without the fans there wouldnt be a club.
Unfortunately though wee live in an age where people dont see clubs for what they are any more, dont really care about the fans and wnat to run the club as a business - and that is totally wrong. That has to change.

RasTa

kstand wrote: »

The club and the fans will be there long after she is dead and gone. Its their hometown club. Fans are not just consumers, they are the lifeblood of the game and of any club. Without the fans there wouldnt be a club.
Unfortunately though wee live in an age where people dont see clubs for what they are any more, dont really care about the fans and wnat to run the club as a business - and that is totally wrong. That has to change.

It won't. This romantic view is long gone. Football is a business

ArmaniJeanss

I am pie wrote: »

Football clubs would do well to insert some clauses when they sell the club. Minimum years ownership, min % of investment against revenue etc etc...otherwise this can happen.

Sounds like a completely unenforceable clause for lots of reasons.

And especially so in a situation where the owner dies and ownership goes to someone who may have little interest.

batistuta9

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Sounds like a completely unenforceable clause for lots of reasons.

And especially so in a situation where the owner dies and ownership goes to someone who may have little interest.

i don't think it's that mad, they could do something with it

in the major US sports i think there's clauses that prevent the team being moved for X amount of years

batistuta9

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Whatever about her putting the club up for sale, she should not have ditched Cortese, who seems by all accounts a hardworking and competent CEO.

he left of his own accord, did he not?

that's why i was asking this earlier http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88494251&postcount=8

kstand

Interesting thing on the BBC before last years CL Final - about how German clubs are run.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22625160

The sooner moves are introduced into the UK and other leagues to follow the German lead then the better for the supporters and for the clubs. No more Glazers, Vincent Tans, Assem Allams etc. The club and its members control the club and sell smaller stakes to other firms - such as the stake Adidas has in Bayern Munich. The way EPL clubs are run is all wrong on so many levels.

RasTa

I'm sure Dortmund fans aren't thrilled with losing their best players every year

kstand

RasTa wrote: »

I'm sure Dortmund fans aren't thrilled with losing their best players every year

They're notoriously low payers though I understand? Saw something there lately where Marco Reus is on something like 38k and Ashley Young at United is on 120k. At least thats what I recall seeing.

Dempsey

RasTa wrote: »

I'm sure Dortmund fans aren't thrilled with losing their best players every year

That has nothing to do with the structures governing German Football

kstand wrote: »

They're notoriously low payers though I understand? Saw something there lately where Marco Reus is on something like 38k and Ashley Young at United is on 120k. At least thats what I recall seeing.

Seen that in a twitter comment recently myself. Continental players negotiate pay in terms of net pay and their pay packets are quoted in the media after tax. UK based players are quoted by gross pay. I wonder if that is taken into consideration when you see pay packets compared between players in the UK & in other European countries.

COYVB

Cortese was, if I remember correctly, seen recently speaking with Villa representatives

ArmaniJeanss

batistuta9 wrote: »

i don't think it's that mad, they could do something with it

in the major US sports i think there's clauses that prevent the team being moved for X amount of years

As I understand it in America all such ownership clauses and employee clauses are specifically catered for in law. i.e., in other businesses they would be against the law but they have been legislated purely for sport.

This is only doable in a closed system like America, but realistically impossible in Europe where it would have to comply with multiple countries legislation.

Also I think your example is slightly flawed in that the Seahawks may be contracted to Seattle for a number of years, but the owners are still able to sell if they wish.

batistuta9

kstand wrote: »

They're notoriously low payers though I understand? Saw something there lately where Marco Reus is on something like 38k and Ashley Young at United is on 120k. At least thats what I recall seeing.

at the time of the CL final last season it was mentioned that if in/compared with the PL, Bayern would've the 4th highest wage bill & Dortmund the 8th

Lovely Bloke

kstand wrote: »

Wooly and Baldy - Southampton is a town in the south of England with a population of just over quarter of a million. It has one EPL club. This club ahs been around for over 128 years - a lot longer than any of the owners or players etc. The club belongs essentailly to the people of Southampton, they are the ones who pay for season tickets etc and follow their home town club. Unfortunately we live in an age where foreign owners have come in to buy football clubs in England, some with ulterior financial motives - but essentially it is down to the same thing - they are mere guardians of that club for the poeple, in this case the people of Southampton. It is nothing short of disgraceful imo that the likes of Vincent Tan for example should take over Cardiff and change the club colours from blue to red as red is a lucky colour where he comes frm in Asia. The same with Mr Allam at Hull wanting the change the same frm Hull City to Hull Tigers. Who is he to think he is above the history of Hull City, the history of the town of Hull to come in and go and rename the football club?
In the case of Miss Liebherr. Yes, her father died and she inherited Southampton football club. She has every right not to be interested in football - but she does have a duty to the club she owns and to the town of Southampton. The club has done fantastically well in recent times but what ahs come out over the last few days does not sound to be in the interests of the club. By all means she can sell it - but not in the middle of a season, especially when they are doing as well as they have done in over 20 years. The clubs value is not going to suffer - so why sell it now? Wait until the end of the season, speak to the supporters groups and see what they have to say. She has an unspoken duty to try and leave the club in as good a pair of hands as is possible.
Its a cancer in the game of football in England at last - foreign owners who are out to make a buck. Lots of clubs have suffered and until the game here goes the same way as it has in Germany, where the fans have a say in the running and ownership of the club, then this cancer will continue to exist.

kstand wrote: »

The club and the fans will be there long after she is dead and gone. Its their hometown club. Fans are not just consumers, they are the lifeblood of the game and of any club. Without the fans there wouldnt be a club.
Unfortunately though wee live in an age where people dont see clubs for what they are any more, dont really care about the fans and wnat to run the club as a business - and that is totally wrong. That has to change.

Your views on football clubs are weird in a kind of strange 1950s pre-Thatcher coal-mining town in the north of england way. Are you trying to be some kind of post-capitalist hipster or something.

You cannot seriously believe that football is going to suddenly do a complete 180 and go back to those quaint old times, do you?

P_1

Very strange situation. To me it seemed that Cortese was doing a pretty good job as chairman but Liebherr seemed to have taken a dislike to him and seemingly is either aiming to sell the club or run it herself.

batistuta9

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

As I understand it in America all such ownership clauses and employee clauses are specifically catered for in law. i.e., in other businesses they would be against the law but they have been legislated purely for sport.

This is only doable in a closed system like America, but realistically impossible in Europe where it would have to comply with multiple countries legislation.

Also I think your example is slightly flawed in that the Seahawks may be contracted to Seattle for a number of years, but the owners are still able to sell if they wish.

i'm not 100% sure on the law side of it, it's something i seen when looking at stan kroenkes' other teams.

i think you're right about being able to sell, kroneke placed the Denver Nuggets & Avalanche + the pepsi centre in a trust for 25 years so that they've to stay in denver & that might be the reason he got them ahead of others

i was using it as an ownership type restriction, maybe america isn't ideal to compare to europe though if they're able to impose spending regulations (FFP, and the PL has it's own version too) in europe they'd be able to do something with ownership would they not?

thebaz

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Whatever about her putting the club up for sale, she should not have ditched Cortese, who seems by all accounts a hardworking and competent CEO.

agree, it is reminicent of when Jack Walker died at Blackburn , and I believe he too tried to put in place a long term plan - look where they are now - I believe she has some duty to the club , she was left the club (lucky girl) and should try and ensure the club goes to good owners , even to honour her father , she is obviously not short of a few bob

I am pie

thebaz wrote: »

agree, it is reminicent of when Jack Walker died at Blackburn , and I believe he too tried to put in place a long term plan - look where they are now - I believe she has some duty to the club , she was left the club (lucky girl) and should try and ensure the club goes to good owners , even to honour her father , she is obviously not short of a few bob

She, the "lucky girl" , is CEO of an international group of engineering and manufacturing group. Not some dope with a football club that landed in her lap.

She has a duty to the shareholders of those companies. Nothing else.

Perhaps she thinks the best thing for the club would be owners who actually want to own the thing.

thebaz

I am pie wrote: »

She, the "lucky girl" , is CEO of an international group of engineering and manufacturing group. Not some dope with a football club that landed in her lap.

She has a duty to the shareholders of those companies. Nothing else.

Perhaps she thinks the best thing for the club would be owners who actually want to own the thing.

yes - lucky girl

and she has some kind of moral duty to the fans , not just some facless shareholders - her father created what is happening in Southampton now.
Agree with the last point , just hate to see it sold to a Venky type thing