Vegetarian Bodybuilding

BigStupidGuy

Hi all!

I'm new to the fitness threads but I have been following a strict plan in nutrition and weights for around 2 months now. I am not a vegetarian but I have found that when I examined my food intake the last few weeks the only meat I occasionally eat is frozen salmon or canned tuna.

Typically my meals get their protein from...

1: Non fat milk and oats/wheat (protein)
2: eggs
3: Cottege cheese
4: Protein powder (in the form of homemade protein bars)
5: Non fat protein yogurt
6: Tinned beans
7: Minced soy beans for tomato sauce etc...
8: Quorn
9: Quinoa
10: Lentils
11: Tofu

The wholegrain toast, potatoes, couscous, whole wheat pasts and wholegrain rice carbs I eat also complement the protein from these foods.


It's incredible to think but all the foods listed above are complete proteins right? I think the reason I didn't get any meat is because...

1: Red meat should be sparsely eaten anyway right?
2: Chicken breast is pretty expensive.
3: It doesn't keep well for "emergency meals" months on end.

So even though I'm not a vegetarian I seem to be becoming one through what I believe to be proper nutrition 6 times a day. (With the exception of tinned tuna and frozen salmon).

My question is if any of you have had a similar experience in your fitness goals? Did you find that by eating healthier, faster and cheaper that you cut out most meat also? Do you see anything in my food that you think might be counterproductive to my "loose weight and gain muscle" goals?

I know being a vegetarian isn't bad since Jack Lalanne was able to have an outstanding physique while doing it also. But do any of you have experience in vegetarian bodybuilding? (with fish lol)

aaakev

Just eat meat man! I buy 20 chicken fillets for €17 and tyat does me a weeknor so, thats not ex0ensive... get some mince or a steak in once or twice a week too! If your not a vegi dont try be one,...

my meat for the week costs less than €35 and I eat alot...

Stench Blossoms

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

It's incredible to think but all the foods listed above are complete proteins right? I think the reason I didn't get any meat is because...

1: Red meat should be sparsely eaten anyway right?
2: Chicken breast is pretty expensive.
3: It doesn't keep well for "emergency meals" months on end.

1. No. Steak is good. Hmmmmmmm steak
2. Chicken breasts are like the cheapest cuts of meat aren't they?!
3. Failing to plan is planning to fail. If you plan you won't need 'emergency meals'.

I'd prefer to get my protein from real food rather than the likes of quorn etc.

Also, if I was to eat the list you posted above I would very much struggle to get my 1lb per bw of protein into me.

TL:DR

I LOVE MEAT!

thegreatiam

Meat good.

Alf Veedersane

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

1: Red meat should be sparsely eaten anyway right?
2: Chicken breast is pretty expensive.
3: It doesn't keep well for "emergency meals" months on end.

1. How sparsely? besides, there's other meat to eat.
2. No it's not.
3. There isn't going to be a nuclear holocaust anytime soon.

Mr. CooL ICE

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

The wholegrain toast, potatoes, couscous, whole wheat pasts and wholegrain rice carbs I eat also complement the protein from these foods.

Technically, these do contain protein, but you shouldn't really consider them to be a good source of protein. Don't let the Brennan's Bread advertising fool you.

Brian?

I was in Citywest shopping centre the other day. The butchers besides Dunnes was selling 40 chicken fillets for 22 euro.

Less than 50c a fillet.

Brian?

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

I know being a vegetarian isn't bad since Jack Lalanne was able to have an outstanding physique while doing it also. But do any of you have experience in vegetarian bodybuilding? (with fish lol)

Jack Lalanne ate meat 3 times a day for donkeys years.

quaalude

A little off topic: I'm a vegetarian, and not a body builder, but I do strength exercises, and run, and keep a rigorous eye on my protein intake.
Someone reading this might be interested in the vegetarian pepperoni recipe I posted on the Vegetarian forum: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057118044
A 55g serving of it has 19g of protein, according to MyFitnessPal (and 140 calories).

thegreatiam

Protein for veggie body builders

saucers82

aaakev wrote: »

Just eat meat man! I buy 20 chicken fillets for €17 and tyat does me a weeknor so, thats not ex0ensive... get some mince or a steak in once or twice a week too! If your not a vegi dont try be one,...

my meat for the week costs less than €35 and I eat alot...

where? and how big are these fillets that's an awesome deal

thegreatiam

saucers82 wrote: »

where? and how big are these fillets that's an awesome deal

meat outlet do a pack of 25 for 19.99. in dun laoghaire

saucers82

thegreatiam wrote: »

meat outlet do a pack of 25 for 19.99. in dun laoghaire

these would want to be good size to justify my dart fare ha ha

just paid 1.20e a fillet in a Spar today

p.s. potential here to go way off topic and a conversation about chicken will start, apologies to original poster

aaakev

saucers82 wrote: »

where? and how big are these fillets that's an awesome deal

2 different places in naas....

thegreatiam

saucers82 wrote: »

these would want to be good size to justify my dart fare ha ha

just paid 1.20e a fillet in a Spar today

p.s. potential here to go way off topic and a conversation about chicken will start, apologies to original poster

meat outlet has several stores i think, i just dont know if prices are the same.

the meat is all labeled santry

They are decent enough size. smallest one ive had was 110g i think

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

meat outlet do a pack of 25 for 19.99. in dun laoghaire

I meant to go up and look at lunch? Have you had them?

Sangre

I love that a thread on vegetarian bodybuilding has turned into a thread about the cheapest places to get chicken.

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I meant to go up and look at lunch? Have you had them?

Yes, I get them all the time, they usually add in a couple of packs of mince when I shop there.

Sangre wrote: »

I love that a thread on vegetarian bodybuilding has turned into a thread about the cheapest places to get chicken.

Id advise that you don't look in the labeling food you want to freeze thread.

I blame the schools

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

Yes, I get them all the time, they usually add in a couple of packs of mince when I shop there.

In another thread someone mentioned them beign full of water..or maybe that they looked like they were, so was wary of trying it out.

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

In another thread someone mentioned them beign full of water..or maybe that they looked like they were, so was wary of trying it out.

Not really, Ive had better and worse. but for about 80c a pop they do fine.

HallE

I was training hard while being vegan (no meat, eggs, fish, or dairy) and found it tough to hit the calories needed each day. Probably just didn't put the effort in diet-wise but I found that I felt great.

No vegan anymore purely due to the difficulty in bulking.

BigStupidGuy

Sangre wrote: »

I love that a thread on vegetarian bodybuilding has turned into a thread about the cheapest places to get chicken.

Oh that's okay lol, at least there are a lot of active members posting in these forums.

Phew... where to start?

It is my understanding from a nutritional standpoint, a person should have MAX 2 portions of red meat a week. There are many health complications associated with eating too red meat due to it being so high in bad fats. Also many cows are fed growth hormones nowadays and you just don't know when a bit of horse meat will be mixed in :rolleyes:

Where I go shopping chicken breasts will be (at the cheapest) €6 for 5 smallish breasts. That's €1.25 for just the protein of just one meal. When I compare this to other meals I can get similar results with soy beans for a fraction of the price. Also when you compare the calories to protein content of low fat cottage cheese, tuna, quorn, milk (and almost tofu, salmon, yogurt and soy) they are actually superior to chicken breast.

I don't know about you guys, but my life can be pretty predictable. I like to have foods on hand I can cook in case I don't have time to shop a particular day (for whatever reason).

@Brian? Jack Lalanne was once quoted as saying in his adult life "I only eat fish - no chicken, no turkey, just fish. I get all my protein from fish and egg whites". Don't get me wrong, I know he did eat meat in his adult life, so have I. However I also know that throughout his life he mostly was vegetarian, especially in his younger and twilight years.

@thegreatiam Thanks but I rather just eat real foods and not veggie foods pretending to be meats. I don't have withdrawal synthoms lol.

@HallE If you're looking for calories for vegan options, just eat a lot of nuts, nut butter and healthy oils lol. I wish I could eat a lot of peanut butter buy omg the calories...


To reiterate I'm not a vegetarian. I like chicken and steaks a lot, and I eat them if I have the chance. I just am finding that it is cheaper, easier, more convenient, and safer to just eat mostly (if not all) veggie foods. Apart from fish of course.

I couldn't imagine being vegan though, nearly impossible to do without dairy I'd say.

Orla K

What are your goals? cut? bulk?

Also the studies that show red meat is bad for you are fairly bad studies. It lumps things like a fast food burger and a steak together. These things are poles apart. There's nothing unhealthy about red meat in this country there's no hormones given to animals and there's regulations if the animal is on any medication too(slaughter x months after finishing meds)

thegreatiam

Firstly a portion needs to be defined. If you have been told toonly eat 2 portions the the person telling you is being vague. Do they mean a 20 oz rump or 250g of fillet? Both are portions both vastly different.

2nd any study of red meat is pretty basic and fairly non scientific. No one has conclusively proved that it is the red meat and not other factors causing the poor health

But you dont need to eat meat. It more than easy to eat enough protein with a veggie diet. It can be cheaper. But not that much cheaper. If price is your main concern buy in bulk and learn to get the most from the meat cuts.

BigStupidGuy

Hi, my current goals are to drop body fat and gain lean muscle mass at the same time. It requires really strict nutrition, but I've been pretty successful so far.

I know what you mean, I can't prove that a pseudo vegetarian diet is healthier, personally I just believe it to be. I am not exercising with the simple goal of gaining muscle, I want to be really healthy also. There's a good page here about this subject which references a pretty respectable study on the subject.

http://scoobysworkshop.com/vegetarianism/

Alf Veedersane

To cut a long post short: if you love yourself, eat meaty protein. It makes you say 'Nom!' out loud.

Casshern88

One of my best mates is a vegetarian

I've seen him dead-lift 190kg and squat 150 for reps no bother, Hes a big guy with plenty of muscle mass, it's always boggled me how he could get so strong with out eating meat! That being said he is someone who would be naturally strong even if he never trained! I nearly feel like its wasted potential to a degree, like you could be even more of a beast if you ate some dam steak!

Marty McFly

I like my meat way to much to be vegetarian but anytime I hear it mentioned I always think of Frank Medrano who went one step further and is vegan.

Now back to cheap chicken .

Frank Bullitt

The meat that I eat used to be vegetarian, does that count?

Kev M

It just might make it a bit more difficult in terms of less calories and convenience. But what level are you really looking to get to here?? I mean, for most people it won't make a bit of difference regarding where you take your physique... You're just lifting a bit and trying to look better I presume, so as long as you're eating somewhat well you'll be grand. If all you do is make sure to have two protein shakes a day along with whatever else, you'll be ok. Strict diets are for people with eating disorders or competitive athletes...

Tar.Aldarion

Marty McFly wrote: »

I like my meat way to much to be vegetarian but anytime I hear it mentioned I always think of Frank Medrano who went one step further and is vegan.

Now back to cheap chicken .

His videos are pretty kick ass.

runawaybishop

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

Oh that's okay lol, at least there are a lot of active members posting in these forums.

Phew... where to start?

It is my understanding from a nutritional standpoint, a person should have MAX 2 portions of red meat a week. There are many health complications associated with eating too red meat due to it being so high in bad fats. Also many cows are fed growth hormones nowadays and you just don't know when a bit of horse meat will be mixed in :rolleyes:

You need to update your research Good quality red meat is to be encouraged and Irish meat is excellent quality. If you want to check you can just drive to the farm yourself and have a look, the details will be displayed at the butchers.

There is still a lot of misinformation floating about around fat.

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

Where I go shopping chicken breasts will be (at the cheapest) €6 for 5 smallish breasts. That's €1.25 for just the protein of just one meal. When I compare this to other meals I can get similar results with soy beans for a fraction of the price. Also when you compare the calories to protein content of low fat cottage cheese, tuna, quorn, milk (and almost tofu, salmon, yogurt and soy) they are actually superior to chicken breast.

There's a couple of things you need to consider here. Chicken is more expensive than say soy beans, sure. It also has 30% less calories per 100g and nearly 100% more protein per 100g. The protein that is in chicken is also far easier for your body to absorb - chicken is about 80% the beans are about 50% absorption.

I will now attempt some math based on eating 100g of protein. In order to level both foods out and have the same amount of protein be absorbed by the body you need to spend 5.38 on chicken which means you consume 441 calories. For soy you only need to spend 3.08 but you consume 1.7k calories.

Naos

"I want to buy a motorbike - what bike would you recommend?"

"Why buy a motorbike, it only has two wheels. Buy a car, it has 4 wheels and you can carry shopping in the boot."

thegreatiam

get a van

runawaybishop

Naos wrote: »

"I want to buy a motorbike - what bike would you recommend?"

"Why buy a motorbike, it only has two wheels. Buy a car, it has 4 wheels and you can carry shopping in the boot."

I want to buy a motorbike to carry items in the big boot it has, what bike would you recommend.

^^ better analogy.

Alf Veedersane

runawaybishop wrote: »

I want to buy a motorbike to carry items in the big boot it has, what bike would you recommend.

^^ better analogy.

I want to buy a rabbit? What would you recommend?

I'd recommend you buy a dog. It eats meat and can kill rabbits and eat them.

^^ even better analogy.

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I want to buy a rabbit? What would you recommend?

I'd recommend you buy a dog. It eats meat and can kill rabbits and eat them.

^^ even better analogy.

why not a cat? cats also eats meat.

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

why not a cat? cats also eats meat.

Dogs are better than cats.

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Dogs are better than cats.

not at miaowing

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

not at miaowing

Worst. Skill. Ever.

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Worst. Skill. Ever.

not for a cat. its a basic requirement.

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

not for a cat. its a basic requirement.

A basic requirement for being a worse pet than a dog?

Cats aren't even as good as turtles.

They could potentially be ninjas.

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

A basic requirement for being a worse pet than a dog?

Cats aren't even as good as turtles.

They could potentially be ninjas.

cats or turtles? Your grammar is a bit vague there

Blacktie.

Bit off topic here lads.

Brian?

Mod note: Let's get back on topic please.

Zillah

Whey shakes make getting protein into you trivially easy. Problem for vegans, not so much for vegetarians.

Getting calories into you shouldn't be any problem either. You could consume 5,000 calories in bread, milk and oats every day if you really wanted. I'm vegetarian and I've been doing weights since last May. Around October I decided my calorie intake was a limiting factor and just started reminding myself to eat above and beyond what I'd naturally be inclined to, it's not even hard I just needed to make a mental note of it. I've gained about 5 or 6 lbs since then in mostly lean weight, so you don't need meat at all.

Meat would be easier, of course, but that doesn't mean you're anyway hamstrung without it.

BigStupidGuy

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is still a lot of misinformation floating about around fat...

The protein that is in chicken is also far easier for your body to absorb - chicken is about 80% the beans are about 50% absorption....In order to level both foods out and have the same amount of protein be absorbed by the body you need to spend 5.38 on chicken which means you consume 441 calories. For soy you only need to spend 3.08 but you consume 1.7k calories.

Do you mean that all the protein from these foods aren't actually absorbed? I never heard about that before... I understand that the body absorbs 8-10g per hour, so you should eat around 30g every 3 hours if you're really serious about bulking. But you're saying that in fact I'd need to eat an additional 60% soy to equal chicken?

I just did a fair bit of "googling" and I can't find anything to back up what you're saying. But I found loads of pages explaining how the most easily digested proteins are eggs, cottage cheese, lean chicken, fish, nuts, yogurt, and ALL soy products... red meat never makes the list.

I really don't know to be honest lol. I guess it doesn't really make much difference in terms of nutrition. Every man for himself, it is interesting though, I must get this book, anyone read it? Bodybuilding Revealed by Will Brink

thegreatiam

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

Do you mean that all the protein from these foods aren't actually absorbed? I never heard about that before... I understand that the body absorbs 8-10g per hour, so you should eat around 30g every 3 hours if you're really serious about bulking. But you're saying that in fact I'd need to eat an additional 60% soy to equal chicken?

your body does this 24 hours a day, so unless you are getting up at night every three hours to eat 30g of protein then you might as well eat more during the day.

YOu can quite easily eat more than 30g every 3 hours, you could even eat 200g in one sitting if you wish, your body will still process it.

seems like most of your knowledge is based on broscience. stop reading myths and misinformation.

Zillah

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

Do you mean that all the protein from these foods aren't actually absorbed? I never heard about that before... I understand that the body absorbs 8-10g per hour, so you should eat around 30g every 3 hours if you're really serious about bulking. But you're saying that in fact I'd need to eat an additional 60% soy to equal chicken?

I just did a fair bit of "googling" and I can't find anything to back up what you're saying. But I found loads of pages explaining how the most easily digested proteins are eggs, cottage cheese, lean chicken, fish, nuts, yogurt, and ALL soy products... red meat never makes the list.

I really don't know to be honest lol. I guess it doesn't really make much difference in terms of nutrition. Every man for himself, it is interesting though, I must get this book, anyone read it? Bodybuilding Revealed by Will Brink

It's called bio-availability.
http://www.musclemealsfitness.com/mmf-blog/2013/4/28/protein-quality-digestion-and-bioavailability

BigStupidGuy

thegreatiam wrote: »

YOu can quite easily eat more than 30g every 3 hours, you could even eat 200g in one sitting if you wish, your body will still process it.

seems like most of your knowledge is based on broscience. stop reading myths and misinformation.

It is my understanding that what you just said here is the very definition of bro science.

The general consciousness is that the body cannot digest more than 30g of protein in one sitting. Anything else is just wasted. You can't just eat 200g of protein from whey in the morning and then eat whatever you want the rest of the day and expect to give your body everything it needs, it doesn't work like that. But hey, if someone has proof please prove me wrong, I'd love to know!

@Zillah thanks for the link.

thegreatiam

BigStupidGuy wrote: »

It is my understanding that what you just said here is the very definition of bro science.

The general consciousness is that the body cannot digest more than 30g of protein in one sitting. Anything else is just wasted. You can't just eat 200g of protein from whey in the morning and then eat whatever you want the rest of the day and expect to give your body everything it needs, it doesn't work like that. But hey, if someone has proof please prove me wrong, I'd love to know!

@Zillah thanks for the link.

basic human evolution is proof enough, if we couldnt eat like that then humans wouldve had to have evolved living next to an easily accessible protein source. since we didnt evolve like that we evolved in a way they we can go for hours and sometimes days with little or no food and very few minor side effects and then receive a glut of nutrition which we digest over a number of days supplying our cells with a steady stream of needed nutrition id be inclined to disagree with you.

Youre right, humans do only process a few grams of protein an hour, dependant on size and other factors. but we do it constantly all the time like a drip feed. it happens in the lower intestine I beleive. that is why the anti meat brigade like to say that meat stays in your gut undigested longer than other foods.

that it what its supposed to do. You could eat 30g, 60g or 100g in one sitting, you will still only process a few g an hour. but youll do it 24 hours a day y days a week.

what this does not mean is that you can only eat 30g in one sitting. or that you must eat every three hours.

the food you eat today will be broken down in a matter of hours, but the digestion of that food will take days to complete. youre using protein in your body right now from yesterday, no doubt.