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doonbeg goes into receivership.

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    true commercialisation of one of scotland's premium assets.
    there is loads more water in that well - and Trump knows it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    true commercialisation of one of scotland's premium assets.
    there is loads more water in that well - and Trump knows it

    Like there were no "truly commercial" courses in Scotland until Trump discovered it? You might do a bit more research into that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    there is a significant difference between 'truly commercial" courses in Scotland' and 'true commercialisation' of scottish golf
    this isnt the business studies for idiots forum, so perhaps you might inform yourself before 'contributing' to this discussion again


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Kevinmarkham


    there is a significant difference between 'truly commercial" courses in Scotland' and 'true commercialisation' of scottish golf
    this isnt the business studies for idiots forum, so perhaps you might inform yourself before 'contributing' to this discussion again

    I don't think that attitude is necessary. Why not treat us like business study idiots and explain what you mean because I'm none the wiser.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    there is a significant difference between 'truly commercial" courses in Scotland' and 'true commercialisation' of scottish golf
    this isnt the business studies for idiots forum, so perhaps you might inform yourself before 'contributing' to this discussion again

    Thanks for the advice. So maybe you can elaborate on how the true commercialisation of Scottish golf will take place under Trump's benign and enlightened leadership?
    Goodness knows they need it. The game has been floundering there for about 500 years.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    ok.

    buying or building one isolated golf resort, regardless of how many stars it receives, is nothing more than a beautiful gesture to lovers of golf.
    take the Euro Club for example. great rugged course, a true test for golfers of all handicaps under 15 imo. its not financially viable though. but yet there are examples of such ventures all over Ireland, Scotland, England. Less so in the US, where 'commercialisation' of the sport is better understood and more evolved.

    Trump didnt invest that cash in Aberdeen to convert a simple dunes into a top class course. its part of an overall strategy him and the Trump team are working off. Just to the acquisition of Doonbeg, and now look at his presence in the British Isles. I expect him to acquire up to another 4 courses in these islands within the next 2 years, and have it on good authority that he is currently reviewing options to acquire another signature course in Ireland, world renowned.
    Like all businesses, scale is critical. unless you are of the idealistic variety, and are happy to base your golf course from a portacabin at the first tee.

    There is a huge emerging international golf market - international being the key word here. You'll see Trump International Membership pretty soon, offering you varying degrees of access to courses located across the globe. This will elevate Doonbeg imo. It will also introduce a more robust business model to courses, such as that located in Aberdeen.
    The days of high net worth individuals possessing a few memberships here, a few there etc are limited. Plus, the attraction of offering a 'british isles' experience is one that will secure a fair greater return than the lazy river of 150 - 220 green fee approach.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Kevinmarkham


    ok.

    buying or building one isolated golf resort, regardless of how many stars it receives, is nothing more than a beautiful gesture to lovers of golf.
    take the Euro Club for example. great rugged course, a true test for golfers of all handicaps under 15 imo. its not financially viable though. but yet there are examples of such ventures all over Ireland, Scotland, England. Less so in the US, where 'commercialisation' of the sport is better understood and more evolved.

    Trump didnt invest that cash in Aberdeen to convert a simple dunes into a top class course. its part of an overall strategy him and the Trump team are working off. Just to the acquisition of Doonbeg, and now look at his presence in the British Isles. I expect him to acquire up to another 4 courses in these islands within the next 2 years, and have it on good authority that he is currently reviewing options to acquire another signature course in Ireland, world renowned.
    Like all businesses, scale is critical. unless you are of the idealistic variety, and are happy to base your golf course from a portacabin at the first tee.

    There is a huge emerging international golf market - international being the key word here. You'll see Trump International Membership pretty soon, offering you varying degrees of access to courses located across the globe. This will elevate Doonbeg imo. It will also introduce a more robust business model to courses, such as that located in Aberdeen.
    The days of high net worth individuals possessing a few memberships here, a few there etc are limited. Plus, the attraction of offering a 'british isles' experience is one that will secure a fair greater return than the lazy river of 150 - 220 green fee approach.

    Fascinating. I admit that I have little interest in the commercial workings of clubs - apart from being aware how backward a lot of clubs remain - and it will be intriguing to see if the theory of Trump buying up more courses comes true. I don't necessarily agree with you and I'm certainly not for golf being commercialised to such an extent... but then that's the way sport has been heading for some time now. Golf is bound to follow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    ok.

    buying or building one isolated golf resort, regardless of how many stars it receives, is nothing more than a beautiful gesture to lovers of golf.
    take the Euro Club for example. great rugged course, a true test for golfers of all handicaps under 15 imo. its not financially viable though. but yet there are examples of such ventures all over Ireland, Scotland, England. Less so in the US, where 'commercialisation' of the sport is better understood and more evolved.

    Trump didnt invest that cash in Aberdeen to convert a simple dunes into a top class course. its part of an overall strategy him and the Trump team are working off. Just to the acquisition of Doonbeg, and now look at his presence in the British Isles. I expect him to acquire up to another 4 courses in these islands within the next 2 years, and have it on good authority that he is currently reviewing options to acquire another signature course in Ireland, world renowned.
    Like all businesses, scale is critical. unless you are of the idealistic variety, and are happy to base your golf course from a portacabin at the first tee.

    There is a huge emerging international golf market - international being the key word here. You'll see Trump International Membership pretty soon, offering you varying degrees of access to courses located across the globe. This will elevate Doonbeg imo. It will also introduce a more robust business model to courses, such as that located in Aberdeen.
    The days of high net worth individuals possessing a few memberships here, a few there etc are limited. Plus, the attraction of offering a 'british isles' experience is one that will secure a fair greater return than the lazy river of 150 - 220 green fee approach.

    What a brilliant idea. It's a wonder nobody thought of that before. Oh wait - they did. Ever hear of Starwood?
    But back to the point. Scotland has about 500 courses, most of them doing pretty well and catering for everyone from Japanese millionaires to artisans. Trump owns one and (wind turbines permitting) might buy another. How is that going to result in the "true commercialisation" of Scottish golf?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    Starwood, pffft..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    Scotland is the Mecca of golf tourism, the market doesn't have the need for another massive investment, he knows it, that's why Aberdeen will remain a small operation.

    What he got in Doonbeg for that price was a far better investment,

    The 21st century is a disaster for golf as a growth industry, so he certainly won't be doing anything to change that,


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Anatom


    It looks like Mr. Trump may have more windfarm issues - in Doonbeg - shortly. This article from this morning's Independent is interesting...

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/trump-troubles-now-billionaire-faces-fight-over-windfarm-near-clare-golf-resort-30018093.html
    Trump troubles: Now billionaire faces fight over windfarm near Clare golf resort
    Gordon Deegan – 18 February 2014

    AMERICAN billionaire and new owner of Doonbeg golf club, Donald Trump, may face more windfarm woes. Mr Trump has long been fighting plans for an offshore windfarm near his links course in Scotland, only last week losing a UK court challenge preventing the windfarm from proceeding.

    Now a firm has lodged plans for a nine-turbine windfarm, with turbines higher than Dublin's Spire, only 4km from Mr Trump's new resort property on Clare's west coast.

    If the new plan proceeds a number of locals are to benefit, with 23 farmers due to receive an annual income through rental payments for the windfarm site from West Coastal Wind Power Ltd.

    Last week it was revealed that Mr Trump had bought up the five-star Doonbeg Lodge and Golf Club for €15m.

    Around the same time, the US billionaire ditched plans for a second course in Aberdeen after losing a legal battle to stop construction of an 11-turbine windfarm. The straight-talking Mr Trump said that windfarms were making "people sick with the continuous noise".

    'ABOMINATION'
    "They're an abomination and are only sustained with government subsidy," he said in reference to Scottish windfarms.

    Now, the businessman is faced with plans by West Coastal Wind Power Ltd for the 413ft turbines in Co Clare. The backers have confirmed that they will pay Clare County Council and the local community a combined €5m during the 25-year operation of the windfarm.

    The 23 landowners who own the 155-acre site where the turbines are planned will receive an unspecified "annual payment which will allow them to continue subsistence farming". The backers of the plan quote research into windfarms from Scotland stating that nine out of 10 tourists visiting some of Scotland's top beauty spots say the presence of windfarms makes no difference to the enjoyment of their holiday.

    The nine-turbine plan is a scaled-down proposal of a 45- turbine plan that was turned down on a number of grounds last year by An Bord Pleanala. The plan created bitter divisions in the Doonbeg community, and the golf club was one of the most vocal opponents.

    Now the firm has lodged its fresh plans. The windfarm is to be located 2km south of Doonbeg with the closest turbine more than 4km from the golf course.

    General manager of the renamed Trump International Golf Links, Ireland, Joe Russell, was yesterday on leave and unavailable for comment. Clare County Council is due to make a decision on the plan on March 30.
    I imagine he won't take this lying down and I wonder whether he'll start spreading some money around to convince the local farmers to change their minds. (Mind you, if you think about it, I'm sure he's aware of the plans already, but its interesting that this should come out now, so soon after news of the purchase of the golf club.

    Separately, I spotted this fascinating article from Buzzfeed earlier where the reporter spent 36 hours with the man himself. Apparently, following the publication of this article, Trump fired the PR guy, Sam Nunberg, who responsible for putting the two of them together for the interview. It says quite a bit about the man. Anyone who spends that length of time with a journalist and then fires the PR guy because he doesn't like what he sees in the resulting article isn't someone I'd want to be associated with. It doesn't fill me with any confidence either that we're going to like what he does to any course he buys on this island...

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/36-hours-on-the-fake-campaign-trail-with-donald-trump


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    In fairness to Trump. He is right about one thing.

    Wind Turbines.

    Snake Oil.

    Another forum debate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭BigChap1759


    http://m.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/donald-trump-scraps-second-menie-golf-course-1-3305243

    He's pulled the plug on further investment in Aberdeen, having promised them the earth.

    They got on poxy course and a glorified b&b in exchange for wrecking one of the rarest habitats in europe

    One of the rarest habitats in Europe - where did you read that? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    In fairness to Trump. He is right about one thing.

    Wind Turbines.

    Snake Oil.

    Another forum debate.

    Those Turbines shouting "get in the hole" from four kilometers away are a real nuisance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    First Up wrote: »
    Those Turbines shouting "get in the hole" from four kilometers away are a real nuisance.

    Pfffff.... This is where it's at

    Crazy-World-of-Minigolf-Tour-Skegness-Arnold-Palmer-Windmill.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    just saw this link now.
    beware of the failed property-on-golf links business model

    Most of the investors who purchased properties with rental guarantee agreements attached to the Doonbeg golf resort now “face ruin”.

    That is according to one investor yesterday as it was confirmed Tom Kavanagh of Kavanagh Fennell has been appointed as liquidator to Doonbeg Golf Club Ltd.

    The most recent accounts lodged with the Companies Office show Doonbeg Golf Club Ltd’s largest creditors were connected companies owned €77m. The owners of investor properties with rental guarantees ranging from €1.2m to €1.8m will be categorised as unsecured creditors in the process.

    At a recent Circuit Court hearing concerning actions taken against a collapsed Doonbeg firm by three separate investor property owners with rental guarantees, Donal O’Rourke BL said that the chances of the plaintiffs getting anything “is minimal”.

    Asked what she expects from the liquidation process, the investor — who did not wish to be named — said yesterday “nothing”.


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/doonbeg-property-owners-face-ruin-263351.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    just saw this link now.
    beware of the failed property-on-golf links business model

    Most of the investors who purchased properties with rental guarantee agreements attached to the Doonbeg golf resort now “face ruin”.

    That is according to one investor yesterday as it was confirmed Tom Kavanagh of Kavanagh Fennell has been appointed as liquidator to Doonbeg Golf Club Ltd.

    The most recent accounts lodged with the Companies Office show Doonbeg Golf Club Ltd’s largest creditors were connected companies owned €77m. The owners of investor properties with rental guarantees ranging from €1.2m to €1.8m will be categorised as unsecured creditors in the process.

    At a recent Circuit Court hearing concerning actions taken against a collapsed Doonbeg firm by three separate investor property owners with rental guarantees, Donal O’Rourke BL said that the chances of the plaintiffs getting anything “is minimal”.

    Asked what she expects from the liquidation process, the investor — who did not wish to be named — said yesterday “nothing”.


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/doonbeg-property-owners-face-ruin-263351.html

    If I follow that correctly, they will still own their properties - they just won't have the guaranteed rental income from them. That might spell ruin for anyone who stretched or borrowed to buy as an investment income but presumably some people bought properties they intend to use themselves - or rent out privately.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    First Up wrote: »
    If I follow that correctly, they will still own their properties - they just won't have the guaranteed rental income from them. That might spell ruin for anyone who stretched or borrowed to buy as an investment income but presumably some people bought properties they intend to use themselves - or rent out privately.

    i'd imagine the vast majority bought to rent


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    i'd imagine the vast majority bought to rent

    The Donald might take them off their hands for a consideration.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Dbu


    First Up wrote: »
    The Donald might take them off their hands for a consideration.

    Very much doubt that, or if he does he will offer zip for them..he is the business of making money not giving it away


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Dbu wrote: »
    Very much doubt that, or if he does he will offer zip for them..he is the business of making money not giving it away

    But it might suit them to have nice properties available to rent on site. I wasn't suggesting it would be charity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    I wouldn't mind having a property on a Trump resort that I could rent out.
    They may be able to fetch more rent from them as a result (of the rebranding and marketing Trump will be backing the resort with)

    Losing the future rent guarantee and any previous monies owed is a balls but their situation hasn't dramatically changed from what I can see.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    PARlance wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind having a property on a Trump resort that I could rent out.
    They may be able to fetch more rent from them as a result (of the rebranding and marketing Trump will be backing the resort with)

    Losing the future rent guarantee and any previous monies owed is a balls but their situation hasn't dramatically changed from what I can see.

    Yes, I think the Examiner's take on it is a bit dramatic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    PARlance wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind having a property on a Trump resort that I could rent out.
    They may be able to fetch more rent from them as a result (of the rebranding and marketing Trump will be backing the resort with)

    Losing the future rent guarantee and any previous monies owed is a balls but their situation hasn't dramatically changed from what I can see.

    agreed - the examiner need to cool the jets a little
    so they've lost rental income owed to them (that they were never likely to recover in any case) - get over it
    and as another poster said, they're in a far better situation post-donald regarding future rental potential


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