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doonbeg goes into receivership.

2456

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    To the guy who said, half your price and you'll quadruple your business - i'd love to understand the basis to this mathematical equation. Nonsensical.

    I cant see there being any major fear for this development (course and adjoining facilities). It will be bought before the summer proper kicks off. A dream development and one that is already turning a profit in certain areas. Projections must have been nuts.

    But as one commentator said, the family issue clearly has not helped issues here. This is a drastic step to force a sale, but from my read that's what we are dealing with here.

    To the blokes referring to the location as the 'back arse of no where' - buy a map. For a golfing trip, regardless of where you are coming from, Doonbeg could safely be considered a hub. Excellent mix of courses within 60-90 mins. Of course its not a lads-on-tour destination, far too upmarket. And as for societies whinging about being priced out of a day trip, i suspect you need to recruit a new events organiser. Loads of irish societies there in last 5 years, growing every year, now accounting for 1/5 golfers throughout the regular society season.

    Final point, i dont think anyone rocking up with 2/3/4 playing partners at 14.30 / 15.00 onwards paid 175 euros in last few years. The place is accessible to all, albeit could be considered a golfing 'treat'. And rightly so.

    Ernest


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    To the guy who said, half your price and you'll quadruple your business - i'd love to understand the basis to this mathematical equation. Nonsensical.

    I cant see there being any major fear for this development (course and adjoining facilities). It will be bought before the summer proper kicks off. A dream development and one that is already turning a profit in certain areas. Projections must have been nuts.

    But as one commentator said, the family issue clearly has not helped issues here. This is a drastic step to force a sale, but from my read that's what we are dealing with here.

    To the blokes referring to the location as the 'back arse of no where' - buy a map. For a golfing trip, regardless of where you are coming from, Doonbeg could safely be considered a hub. Excellent mix of courses within 60-90 mins. Of course its not a lads-on-tour destination, far too upmarket. And as for societies whinging about being priced out of a day trip, i suspect you need to recruit a new events organiser. Loads of irish societies there in last 5 years, growing every year, now accounting for 1/5 golfers throughout the regular society season.

    Final point, i dont think anyone rocking up with 2/3/4 playing partners at 14.30 / 15.00 onwards paid 175 euros in last few years. The place is accessible to all, albeit could be considered a golfing 'treat'. And rightly so.

    Ernest

    So in a nutshell, Doonbeg has absolutely no problems at all with its business model, or how is is perceived in the Irish market, and the reason it is in receivership is simply down to personal issues among the owners.

    Right-ee-oo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    No. There are issues.
    I am trying to provide a little balance to the exaggerated claims outlined before me here.

    Fact - the course was developed for an international market.
    Although this has recovered in last 2 years, it took a serious hammering in 3-4 year period prior to that.

    Fact - the course has made a significant effort, particularly in last 3 years, to attract a more indigenous customer. Of course they could cut the price further, as price is typically the first blockage referenced by potential customers, but this isnt really a long term solution and is easily replicated.

    The business model had flaws certainly. Perhaps the biggest criticism should be that it did not evolve with market dynamics from 2007 onwards. They're playing catch up, and catching up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭Wichita Lineman


    Unfortunately for many, price alone seems to be the one deciding factor in the decision as to where they can golf and this applies to regularly and a one off round. All inevitably contributing in the clubs race to the bottom with ever more alarming speed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    No. There are issues.
    I am trying to provide a little balance to the exaggerated claims outlined before me here.

    Fact - the course was developed for an international market.
    Although this has recovered in last 2 years, it took a serious hammering in 3-4 year period prior to that.

    Fact - the course has made a significant effort, particularly in last 3 years, to attract a more indigenous customer. Of course they could cut the price further, as price is typically the first blockage referenced by potential customers, but this isnt really a long term solution and is easily replicated.

    The business model had flaws certainly. Perhaps the biggest criticism should be that it did not evolve with market dynamics from 2007 onwards. They're playing catch up, and catching up.

    How much could a society have paid in the last year or so ?

    So you are saying the business model was flawed - That is what was said here.

    You are saying parts of it was profitable - sorry that is pr spin.

    You are saying it is societies fault if they perceived the place as a high end destination :confused:

    So Doonbeg came with the begging bowl to the "indigenous" people whilst they get the high end back on track. :eek::eek::eek:

    And you are saying that the reaction here is exaggerated - I think Doonbeg had its head in the sand Dunes.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    How much could a society have paid in the last year or so ?
    I dont have exact figures but significant discounts available for Groups of 20 persons +.

    So you are saying the business model was flawed - That is what was said here. The business model was too inflexible, and should have been refined earlier that '09/'10

    You are saying parts of it was profitable - sorry that is pr spin. Incorrect. Please do show me the detail behind your assertion though.

    You are saying it is societies fault if they perceived the place as a high end destination :confused:No. I said there were various options available for societies to take advantage of, should they have explored these. Thus facilitating access to Groups with even modest budgets.

    So Doonbeg came with the begging bowl to the "indigenous" people whilst they get the high end back on track. :eek::eek::eek: No. The business model has been refined, as mentioned on numerous occasions above. It includes a proactive approach to the indigenous market. Previously this was not ignored, but certainly not pursued with any real aggression.

    And you are saying that the reaction here is exaggerated - I think Doonbeg had its head in the sand Dunes. You might think that, I couldnt possibly comment

    Ernest


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 497 ✭✭Ernest Oreo


    Just an addendum..

    the biggest threat to Doonbeg GC is coastal erosion, not the application of a prehistoric business model.
    This is particularly worrying given the lack of options available to any new owner in protecting the marvellous dunes from the atlantic ocean.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 90 ✭✭jarvis_c82


    To be honest, it's a shame this resort has gone into receivership but it was inevitable.

    As a member of Lahinch, I enjoyed the times I have played Doonbeg, though that was more to the facilities and setup of the resort. It always feels like a treat. The course itself has its few memorable holes, unfortunately the negative publicity and redesign due to the snails and right of way through the course has limited the potential of dunes that are there for a golf course. The pitching to wealthy Americans and not much to the general has not helped it until recently.

    I still feel that there is too much investment in the resort that a buyer will pick it up and maybe rebrand it for the local / society market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    To the guy who said, half your price and you'll quadruple your business - i'd love to understand the basis to this mathematical equation. Nonsensical.

    Its about filling the time-sheet and thereby the clubhouse with paying punters.
    Have you ever priced a weekend at the pretentiously titled "Lodge at Doonbeg"? t'would be cheaper fly to Portugal for a week of golf.

    Doonbeg deliberately priced themselves out of the domestic market & IMO are deservedly paying the price....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Its about filling the time-sheet and thereby the clubhouse with paying punters.
    Have you ever priced a weekend at the pretentiously titled "Lodge at Doonbeg"? t'would be cheaper fly to Portugal for a week of golf.

    Doonbeg deliberately priced themselves out of the domestic market & IMO are deservedly paying the price....

    I think you are confusing Doonbeg with a "normal" golf club. Like Adare and Old Head, Doonbeg only existed to cater for people who want to experience Irish golf under Country Club conditions. Filling it with happy punters on reduced green fees would scare off what remaining business they have.
    The reports today are of six inquiries from potential buyers - none Irish.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭TrapperChamonix


    Newstalk claiming this morning that Trump are looking at purchasing Doonbeg.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Newstalk claiming this morning that Trump are looking at purchasing Doonbeg.

    its in the irish independent email this morning as well. just going to read it now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Kevinmarkham


    Newstalk claiming this morning that Trump are looking at purchasing Doonbeg.
    charlieIRL wrote: »
    its in the irish independent email this morning as well. just going to read it now.

    Looks like it started with this article in the Irish Examiner.

    Is it just me, or does €15 million seem like a bargain for one of the world's most acclaimed golf resorts?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭peepee


    Pat Kenny just had the guy from "You've been Trumped" on talking about Doonbeg. Interesting interview


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    Looks like it started with this article in the Irish Examiner.

    Is it just me, or does €15 million seem like a bargain for one of the world's most acclaimed golf resorts?

    €15 million would definitely seem like a bargain. Interesting point from the examiner - "It is understood that existing property owners will retain all rights under the terms of any sale agreement." Not sure why Trump would agree to this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Dbu


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    €15 million would definitely seem like a bargain. Interesting point from the examiner - "It is understood that existing property owners will retain all rights under the terms of any sale agreement." Not sure why Trump would agree to this?


    €15mil for Doonbeg, makes Fota look like such a snip at €20mil

    Give me Fota anyday


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Its about filling the time-sheet and thereby the clubhouse with paying punters.
    Have you ever priced a weekend at the pretentiously titled "Lodge at Doonbeg"? t'would be cheaper fly to Portugal for a week of golf.

    Doonbeg deliberately priced themselves out of the domestic market & IMO are deservedly paying the price....

    Filling the timesheet with punters at €20 a head isnt going to cover the costs of a resort like Doonbeg.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    €15 million would definitely seem like a bargain. Interesting point from the examiner - "It is understood that existing property owners will retain all rights under the terms of any sale agreement." Not sure why Trump would agree to this?

    I'd say that refers to anyone who had bought one of the houses on the development.

    Trump buys the hotel/lodge, any houses that the hotel still owned for rentals, the golf course and any other lands.
    Houses on the development that are privately owned will remain privately owned, and I'd imagine will retain any playing rights that they have now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    blackwhite wrote: »
    I'd say that refers to anyone who had bought one of the houses on the development.

    Trump buys the hotel/lodge, any houses that the hotel still owned for rentals, the golf course and any other lands.
    Houses on the development that are privately owned will remain privately owned, and I'd imagine will retain any playing rights that they have now.

    Ah that would make sense alright - couldn't see why Trump would bother otherwise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Filling the timesheet with punters at €20 a head isnt going to cover the costs of a resort like Doonbeg.

    There are folk who think that lowering green fees is the solution to everything.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭Anatom


    First Up wrote: »
    There are folk who think that lowering green fees is the solution to everything.

    I agree.

    Mind you, its not the best or most catchy name - the " Trump International Golf Links, Ireland'.

    The statement is interesting - "Doonbeg is an already terrific property that will be made even better and that it will soon be an unparalleled resort destination with the highest standards of luxury."

    Reading into that, you can bet that green fees will not be dropping any time soon. If at all...

    Still, good luck to him. I would always welcome anyone investing money in our golf and tourism industries. His name alone will attract a greater number of visitors to our shores.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    It will probably see a lot more USA golfers now with trump owning it. I would imagine the green fees will probably rise now aswell.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭John Divney


    So the snails will now presumably be served for lunch to guests. Goodbye sweet slugs, we hardly knew ya!

    On the flip side I wouldn't believe much coming from the grapevine re the Trump and they're proposed buying, mostly bull


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Dbu




  • Site Banned Posts: 26,456 ✭✭✭✭Nuri Sahin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Nuri Sahin wrote: »

    I expect he will bid for the Irish Open before long.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Dbu


    First Up wrote: »
    I expect he will bid for the Irish Open before long.

    Road access would be a genuine issue


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Dbu wrote: »
    Road access would be a genuine issue

    Doubt that will stop him. No guarantee he'll get it but money tends to matter - it has been very short of sponsors and The Donald would stump up a decent prize fund.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Dbu


    First Up wrote: »
    Doubt that will stop him. No guarantee he'll get it but money tends to matter - it has been very short of sponsors and The Donald would stump up a decent prize fund.

    Might not stop him but imagine 20,000 cars getting in and out of there.:eek:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Dbu wrote: »
    Might not stop him but imagine 20,000 cars getting in and out of there.:eek:

    It would have to be buses in and out but that can be done. Accommodation in the area might be a bigger problem.


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