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doonbeg goes into receivership.

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Just read that too. Thankfully no jobs lost yet and all staying open for now


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Now that is a big one gone down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭sydneybound


    It's a place like this and somewhere like the Slieve Russell I really hope don't go down the pan. Both established for a number of a years. These type of course would be a huge loss to Irish golf.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭bailey99


    These type of course would be a huge loss to Irish golf.

    How do you figure that out??? Played Doonbeg and wouldn't have it in the top 20 courses in the country to be honest.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭14handicap


    I cant understand how a golf course that charges 140 a round and is well booked up most of the time can lose money?
    My guess is that it will be snapped up by some wealthy Chinese or American.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Dbu


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    Just read that too. Thankfully no jobs lost yet and all staying open for now

    Yes Charlie, good about the jobs, but the all the suppliers that were owed money have now lost out on any payments. Im not a supplier by the way, just an observation


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭sydneybound


    bailey99 wrote: »
    How do you figure that out??? Played Doonbeg and wouldn't have it in the top 20 courses in the country to be honest.

    So are you telling me if this course went bust and went back to normal farmland it woundn't be a loss to Irish golf?

    http://www.golfbusinessnews.com/news/courses/doonbeg-ranked-in-worlds-top-100-courses/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Kevinmarkham


    bailey99 wrote: »
    How do you figure that out??? Played Doonbeg and wouldn't have it in the top 20 courses in the country to be honest.

    From a tourism point of view it would be a huge loss. It attracts large numbers of Americans to Ireland - and both Americans and golfers spend more than the average tourist in this country. There are plenty of other links courses around, but The Lodge is ranked as one of the best golf resorts in the world and therefore attracts big spenders.

    I agree that their green fees are too high, but I have seen plenty of posts from Americans planning an Irish trip where green fees are irrelevant. Pay €3,000 for flights and accommodation, then the difference between €80 and €180 green fee is negligible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    I've never visited Doonbeg, but it strikes me as sharing similar problems with Lough Erne.
    1. It's in the back end of beyond, and nowhere near a population centre of any significance.
    2. It's priced for the tourism market rather than the local market, meaning it's a one-off treat rather than a repeat business model.
    3. It's a long jaunt from the main tourism entry points, which puts it head-to-head with better destinations of a similar trip (Clare vs Kerry, Fermanagh vs Donegal).
    4. The lack of a quality golf course on the doorstep makes it an awkward society trip

    I'm sure it's a lovely course, but the perceived USPs that allowed it to be built would be more closely analysed in the post-Celtic Tiger era.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    thewobbler wrote: »
    The lack of a quality golf course on the doorstep makes it an awkward society trip

    Sorry wobbler, what do you mean by this? Do you mean the lack of another quality course or just that it's not a quality course in itself?

    Just on that list of top 100 courses. 9 irish courses on it and Waterville not among them. Shows how seriously these should be taken.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭superhooper


    Dbu wrote: »
    Yes Charlie, good about the jobs, but the all the suppliers that were owed money have now lost out on any payments. Im not a supplier by the way, just an observation

    Its not in liquidation therefore it will continue in business quite normally albeit with a receiver signing the cheques for suppliers,staff etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    thewobbler wrote: »
    I've never visited Doonbeg, but it strikes me as sharing similar problems with Lough Erne.
    1. It's in the back end of beyond, and nowhere near a population centre of any significance.
    2. It's priced for the tourism marketi rather than the local market, meaning it's a one-off treat rather than a repeat business model.
    3. It's a long jaunt from the main tourism entry points, which puts it head-to-head with better destinations of a similar trip (Clare vs Kerry, Fermanagh vs Donegal).
    4. The lack of a quality golf course on the doorstep makes it an awkward society trip

    I'm sure it's a lovely course, but the perceived USPs that allowed it to be built would be more closely analysed in the post-Celtic Tiger era.
    Its not actually that isolated though. It's very close to lahinch so you do have other courses of a high quality in close enough proximity & a reasonable sized town which is pretty easily accessible.

    You are right though that it is reliant on tourist trade which is going to be seasonal & the green fees could be offputting to average Joe Irish golfer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭superhooper


    denisoc16 wrote: »
    Sorry wobbler, what do you mean by this? Do you mean the lack of another quality course or just that it's not a quality course in itself?

    Just on that list of top 100 courses. 9 irish courses on it and Waterville not among them. Shows how seriously these should be taken.

    Would have thought Lahinch would be the obvious doorstep course and its a links course which is the market Doonbeg is in. Bally B not too far away on the ferry while Shannon is an hour away.

    I could see this as an issue for the likes of The Old Head as Cork as no links courses nearby which will provide other courses for the mostly American visitor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 680 ✭✭✭A.Partridge


    thewobbler wrote: »
    I've never visited Doonbeg, but it strikes me as sharing similar problems with Lough Erne.
    1. It's in the back end of beyond, and nowhere near a population centre of any significance.
    2. It's priced for the tourism market rather than the local market, meaning it's a one-off treat rather than a repeat business model.
    3. It's a long jaunt from the main tourism entry points, which puts it head-to-head with better destinations of a similar trip (Clare vs Kerry, Fermanagh vs Donegal).
    4. The lack of a quality golf course on the doorstep makes it an awkward society trip

    I'm sure it's a lovely course, but the perceived USPs that allowed it to be built would be more closely analysed in the post-Celtic Tiger era.

    :confused:

    Lahinch is just 20 mins away?

    To add to that it is a much easier drive from Limerick to Doonbeg than say Tralee or Killarney to most of the outlying courses such as Waterville, Dooks etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Would have thought Lahinch would be the obvious doorstep course and its a links course which is the market Doonbeg is in. Bally B not too far away on the ferry while Shannon is an hour away.

    I could see this as an issue for the likes of The Old Head as Cork as no links courses nearby which will provide other courses for the mostly American visitor.

    Ya that's what I was thinking. Lahinch is only up the road & Tralee and Ballybunion would both be within 90 minutes approx I'd guess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭shamco


    thewobbler wrote: »
    I've never visited Doonbeg, but it strikes me as sharing similar problems with Lough Erne.
    1. It's in the back end of beyond, and nowhere near a population centre of any significance.
    2. It's priced for the tourism market rather than the local market, meaning it's a one-off treat rather than a repeat business model.
    3. It's a long jaunt from the main tourism entry points, which puts it head-to-head with better destinations of a similar trip (Clare vs Kerry, Fermanagh vs Donegal).
    4. The lack of a quality golf course on the doorstep makes it an awkward society trip
    I'm sure it's a lovely course, but the perceived USPs that allowed it to be built would be more closely analysed in the post-Celtic Tiger era.

    Doonbeg is only 30min from Ballybunion and one hour from Tralee so no mor "back of beyonds" than Kerry


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    denisoc16 wrote: »
    Ya that's what I was thinking. Lahinch is only up the road & Tralee and Ballybunion would both be within 90 minutes approx I'd guess.

    Proximity is a relative value it seems.

    Locals might know better, but Google makes it 32 mins to Lahinch.

    This is nothing to an American (hey, it's only next door), but for many society golfers (especially those whose weekends away are 30% upwards about the nights out) 32 mins is more than enough to think "frig that, let's find somewhere to stay in Lahinch instead, park the car once, and play both courses there".

    Up north, Lough Erne is probably only 30 mins from Slieve Russell or Farnham, and less than an hour from Murvagh. But it's a lifetime if you're on the beer sweats. Paying a premium to stay in Erne/Doonbeg doesn't stack up for these societies.

    If you can fill your boots all year around with Americans, then I guess this isn't a concern. By the looks of things, they can't do that though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    I hear you, but if you are travelling from Dublin to west Clare for a golf trip and are willing to shell out the greenfees needed in Lahinch & Doonbeg then a 30 minute drive isn't a big deal IMO. I would prefer to travel to Doonbeg from Lahinch than play the 2nd course in Lahinch anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    Hard to have sympathy for a place that charges €125 for a round of golf. If they halved their prices they'd quadruple their business.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Milkers


    shamco wrote: »
    Doonbeg is only 30min from Ballybunion and one hour from Tralee so no mor "back of beyonds" than Kerry

    We don't all have helicopters.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭shamco


    Milkers wrote: »
    We don't all have helicopters.

    No need for a helicopter. There is a ferry that takes only 15min


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭thewobbler


    shamco wrote: »
    No need for a helicopter. There is a ferry that takes only 15min
    You still have to get to it, and get from there to Ballybunion. Even with military precision I doubt you could pull a society out of Doonbeg and arrive in Ballybunion in less than an hour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Milkers


    thewobbler wrote: »
    You still have to get to it, and get from there to Ballybunion. Even with military precision I doubt you could pull a society out of Doonbeg and arrive in Ballybunion in less than an hour.

    Considering there's a 30 minute drive either side of the ferry I'd say that's a safe bet. Hour and a half would be pushing it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭Dbu


    Its not in liquidation therefore it will continue in business quite normally albeit with a receiver signing the cheques for suppliers,staff etc.


    I have never been paid by a receiver...in my experience once a receiver is appointed the current suppliers are shafted more or less. Any money in the company is paid to the receiver for his fees and the revenue get the rest (if there is any left after the receiver)
    Thats my experience anyway

    Sorry mods, bit off topic


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Dbu wrote: »
    I have never been paid by a receiver...in my experience once a receiver is appointed the current suppliers are shafted more or less. Any money in the company is paid to the receiver for his fees and the revenue get the rest (if there is any left after the receiver)
    Thats my experience anyway

    Sorry mods, bit off topic

    A fine line between receivership and liquidation alright, technically you should be getting paid (or maybe working with the receiver to agree a write down as some sort of way forward) from the receiver but many receivership's go straight into liquidation after the receiver has failed in his attempt.

    If a receiver didn't pay you and the company successfully exited receivership then you are still owed the money and could (continue) to pursue legal means of getting it.
    With a liquidation, it's terminal, the company has gone bust and will never return.
    I.e A receiver should be working with the Revenue to come up with a payment plan to payment any arrears. In a liquidation, the revenue just get the money as a priority. Which should really be looked at imo, Liquidations can cause further liquidations as suppliers tend to get nothing, instead of handing it over to the Revenue they should be giving it to the suppliers and it may mean that 10,15,20 other businesses/suppliers stand a chance of survival.

    A bit off topic but it's important that people know that there's still a chance for Doonbeg to turn it around.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Hard to have sympathy for a place that charges €125 for a round of golf. If they halved their prices they'd quadruple their business.

    From the off we were given the Idea that it was luxurious and - whilst not saying it, they were sort of saying this is for rich foreigners.

    Not targeting the Irish Market at all, is a dangerous territory - particularly if most Irish people would have more interest in playing Lahinch if they go to Clare.

    So if they didn't target the Irish golf public - it is understandable if people are not over concerned about the place - the feeling was mutual.

    Hopefully the place opens up a bit and targets Irish golfers more - You get the sense the likes of Old Head and that have - they know the Irish Tourism market and the luxury golf market is a very fickle thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭shamco


    From the off we were given the Idea that it was luxurious and - whilst not saying it, they were sort of saying this is for rich foreigners.

    Not targeting the Irish Market at all, is a dangerous territory - particularly if most Irish people would have more interest in playing Lahinch if they go to Clare.

    So if they didn't target the Irish golf public - it is understandable if people are not over concerned about the place - the feeling was mutual.

    Hopefully the place opens up a bit and targets Irish golfers more - You get the sense the likes of Old Head and that have - they know the Irish Tourism market and the luxury golf market is a very fickle thing.

    Agreed but having said that none of the links in the southwest are cheap


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    shamco wrote: »
    Agreed but having said that none of the links in the southwest are cheap
    Yes - most are not cheap - but most aren't carrying on as if they are Augusta National - your in the West coast of Clare lads - relax. :)

    Put a bit of Planxty on and hit the local.

    doonbeg-golf-club1.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭superhooper


    From the off we were given the Idea that it was luxurious and - whilst not saying it, they were sort of saying this is for rich foreigners.

    Not targeting the Irish Market at all, is a dangerous territory - particularly if most Irish people would have more interest in playing Lahinch if they go to Clare.

    So if they didn't target the Irish golf public - it is understandable if people are not over concerned about the place - the feeling was mutual.

    Hopefully the place opens up a bit and targets Irish golfers more - You get the sense the likes of Old Head and that have - they know the Irish Tourism market and the luxury golf market is a very fickle thing.

    Perhaps in the early days this was the case but over the last few months I kept hearing their ads and competitions on radio. Just looked at their prices for the summer and €175 would be out of my league and I'd imagine most Irish though the April prices at €65 would warrant thinking about and I'm sure a society would get in cheaper.

    I'd imagine the ownership issues they have had with family squabbling didn't help their business.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Don't forget the snails.


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