Discussuion on Cheltenham preview nights

sting60

If possible can I name my team of top tipsters for Cheltenham based on my assessment of real value for money.

Francie Barrett

These things are a complete waste of time. Against my better nature, I ended up going to one last year and when I compared the results to the "tips" - it was hilariously wrong. Every single one of the charity bets got beaten (they were mostly favourites like First Lieutenant, Pont Alexandre, Dynaste, etc.). Ted Walsh in particular came out of it looking like a total clown. Among the pearls he gave, he said Quevega was past her best and wouldn't win. He wrote off any chance of The New One and insisted that Pont Alexandre was one of his top 3 bets of the festival. It was all just rubbish with no real conviction. The problem was that because Ted has a bit of an infectious personality, a lot of the audience were lapping his talk up.

Don't get me wrong. I know these things are for charity, and these lads are hardly going to land in and give you a clean slate of winners. The problem I have is that most of these guys just focus on the races that have been covered ad infinitum. I mean, can these guys really add anymore to the arguments regarding Hurricane Fly, Sprinter Sacre and Bobs Worth?

Colonel Sanders

I think they're ok as long as you don't take them seriously. Some are for a good cause and sometims the panel are OK (I'd never get sick of listening to Jim McGrath and Tony Mullins is usually p!ssed at them)

The glory days were when Celtic were on the go, Ivan Yates used to literally give out money with his specials

Francie Barrett

If you're looking for a contrary indicator, then Tony Martin is brilliant. A friend of mine went to a preview night with him and cornered him afterwards asking about Benefficient. Tony replies with something along the lines of the track not suiting the horse also saying it wasn't one of his best to be ran. My friend lumped on it in the antepost markets and on the day and won a small fortune.

kiers47

I've been to a couple of these with a few lads it usually just ends in a massive session with the lot of us talking pure rubbish. We normally only go for the banter and rarely take anything decent from them. Got chatting to Tom segal at one in Waterford last year and ended up spending about 20 minutes talking about golf. Ha

jimjamcos

The "experts" at them are being paid to basically entertain, tell and few anecdotes and slag off each other and the English horses for the craic of the crowd. Given the atmosphere in the venues which host Preview Nights, proper analysis of races is near impossible.

I was at the one in Cafe En Seine last year though and Geraghty was asked for a tip outside of the festival. He gave the Henderson & Queen's horse Close Touch running at Sandown the next Saturday. Duly hacked up @ 9/1!

carpothepunk

Ted Walsh last year saying Golantilla wouldn't go in the bumper. Paddy saying he'd refund anyone who backed it of pont was beat, also saying the expenses were being paid by indevan in the bumper the sunday before chelt. Beaten a short head I think, I vaguely remember a desperate ride from the aforementioned. The Barney Curley one in Galway is great every year, though

nobody told me

Was at one many years ago that tony martin was on. He was asked for the best of his horses going over. He said Ross Moff or some other donkey. Cue Xenophon absolutely bolting up, with one of the biggest gambles the festival has seen!

kfallon

Don't go to one with Davy Russell on the panel.....immediately rules out 95% of them!

Hulk Hands

Theyre cheap, good craic and, if you pick one with a bookie that will give specials, can be profitable. It's nice to hear journalists and jockeys say what they think in relaxed company rather than being over cautious in the media. If people are taking the time to come onto a racing forum to chat about racing, then surely you will make up your own mind regardless of what you hear. People who go along with the idea that they'll back what someone on the panel tells them to back in every race, probably shouldnt be gambling in the first place.

BumperD

I go every yr for the craic and to help a worthy cause. A cheap yet thoroughly enjoyable night out talking horses with people who love the game. Sure what else would you be doing, watching the nine o clock news ugh

Backstreet Moyes

I have to say i enjoy them to be honest. It's a good laugh talking about racing and have a few pints with a good atmosphere. But you can't really take what they say too serious. Davy Russell literally picks out one horse that can't win and a horse that can't be beaten. Last year Hurricane Fly couldn't win and Pont Alexandre was unbeatable. I take some small notes but still do my own study before i back anything. The main thing i like is it gives you the feel for Cheltenham the buzz that it is only around the corner. It's for a good cause and you get to have a creep on Hayley O Connor.

hucklebuck

I go for the craic, cant believe people expect great tips.

Backstreet Moyes

hucklebuck wrote: »

I go for the craic, cant believe people expect great tips.

Ye their is a couple of us go and two or three take notes constantly. They let these people influence too many of their bets. The right balance is too take some of their points about races and still make your own picks.

Cheltenham is just a very hard meeting. Two years ago i had 1 winner and backed every race. Last year i had 7 or 8 winners and done very well. You can't really rely on tips in high quality races. The main thing is too have a nice few pound away to do a few bets and enjoy the best horses in the world. It's just a magical week i am getting excited talking about it.

seoirsem

I've only ever been to one and found it to be rather boring to say the least. All favs being tipped etc. I do, however, like to watch the English ones online when they become available. As a rule , I like to formulate my own opinion with regards to the pattern races at the festival and will use any nugget of info I can get re the handicaps. Only wish I'd stuck to that formula last year as both Salibrious (The Couch) and Alderwood (Henry De Bromhead) were both tipped at preview nights for the last two races of the 2013 festival. I think Alderwood was NAPPED!!

premierstone

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Ted Walsh in particular came out of it looking like a total clown. Among the pearls he gave, he said Quevega was past her best and wouldn't win. He wrote off any chance of The New One and insisted that Pont Alexandre was one of his top 3 bets of the festival. It was all just rubbish with no real conviction.

He does like the sound of his own voice a little too much but tbf none of those three calls were particularly bad at the time and hindsight is a wonderfull thing, Quevega has/had regressed slightly it was just her pure class pulled her through, that and the lack of a meaningfull rival and both Willie and Ruby had said the exact same about Pont Alexandre infact Ruby was alot more forcefull about it than Ted.

Preview nights are what they are and I have always enjoyed the banter and craic and whats not to like about a room full of like minded folk talking about their love of racing and just generally all behaving like kids on Christmass eve.

Hulk Hands

hucklebuck wrote: »

I go for the craic, cant believe people expect great tips.

What people don't understand is that most of these jockeys and trainers don't gamble or gamble rarely. The vast majority of them wouldn't know an arb from an overound. So while it nice to hear their views on the form lines and tidbits about a horses wellbeing, following what they say literally would often be gambling suicide. You probably hear something like 'the new one has a very good chance, but I wouldn't give much hope to our conor' with no reference to our Conors price being 3 times TNO's. If people do want their mind made up for them, then listen to the successful tippers such as Segal, McClean or Gary O'brien. These lads might have no inside info but can put a horses chance down in probability terms and give you value in ways the likes of Andrew Lynch etc wouldn't understand

Hulk Hands

Tarare wrote: »

Without dragging this completely off topic I know of at least 5 jockeys(that take part in these aswell) who back and back regularly locally,step foot in one of the bookies in Ashbourne or Ratoath and you'll see them for yourself with your own eyes.

They may gamble but that doesn't mean they're any smarter for tipping than the common mug. If they were clever they a) wouldn't be risking their reputation by betting in public, and b) wouldn't be stuck in a bookies taking one bookies prices solely. Add in that the local bookie likely wouldn't be offering them business if they were known winners

convert

And back on topic.....

hucklebuck

I was at one a couple of years ago and Ruby was asked about Grands Crus and said "he is just a handicapper", I let a loud derisory rubbish out of me!

convert

I'd say he loved that, hucklebuck......

hucklebuck

convert wrote: »

I'd say he loved that, hucklebuck......

Oh I wish you were there to see the smile he gave me.

convert

hucklebuck wrote: »

Oh I wish you were there to see the smile he gave me.

I'm sure it was a very friendly, special smile!

ste2010

convert wrote: »

I'm sure it was a very friendly, special smile!

Can we rename this thread "Cheltenham preview nights" there not for everyone but I have respect for the people who give there time for charity.

I dont mind them.

Go there with the intention of having a good laugh and some craic, rather than getting your card marked for the festival, and you will enjoy them more.

I used to attend one in Maynooth. €20 entry but you received a free €20 bet voucher (no strings attached). It was usually a great night with Jim McGrath, Dessie Hughes, Tom Taffe, Nina, Noel O Brien and others mostly in attendance. Tony O Hehir was the man on the mic.

It was a good laugh. No pearls of wisdom or inside tips....until Mr Taffe opened his mouth. I remember he gave Ninetieth Miunte, Finger On the Pulse as horses to watch, given with a very rue smile!

In 2006, He also made a point of telling those listening to have an EW bet on Joseph Crowley's Hairy Molly (won at 33-1). Brandy was had that evening and Mr Taffe was toasted many many times.

For what they are they are a bit of fun but remember some charities make money from them so they are for a good cause.

yaboya1

TheTorment wrote: »

I dont mind them.

Go there with the intention of having a good laugh and some craic, rather than getting your card marked for the festival, and you will enjoy them more.

I used to attend one in Maynooth. €20 entry but you received a free €20 bet voucher (no strings attached). It was usually a great night with Jim McGrath, Dessie Hughes, Tom Taffe, Nina, Noel O Brien and others mostly in attendance. Tony O Hehir was the man on the mic.

It was a good laugh. No pearls of wisdom or inside tips....until Mr Taffe opened his mouth. I remember he gave Ninetieth Miunte, Finger On the Pulse as horses to watch, given with a very rue smile!

In 2006, He also made a point of telling those listening to have an EW bet on Joseph Crowley's Hairy Molly (won at 33-1). Brandy was had that evening and Mr Taffe was toasted many many times.

For what they are they are a bit of fun but remember some charities make money from them so they are for a good cause.

That one in Maynooth was definitely the best around. It was very professional, well organised (unlike most that are staged in pubs) and the panel most years were pretty informative. As mentioned Tom Taaffe gave a couple of nice ones, while in 2005 Dessie Hughes claimed that Hardy Eustace was going even better than 2004 when going for his second CH, but gave Oulart as his nap in the Pertemps. Both won (7/2 & 10/1). Jim McGrath had a winning nap three years in a row too at nice prices, 2005 - Trabolgan, 2006 - Voy Por Ustedes, 2007 - My Way De Solzen. So they can be worthwhile sometimes.

In saying that, I normally go there having already made my mind up about most races and just find it interesting to hear different opinions and meet some like minded people for racing chat and banter. Also helps get you in the mood for the festival which I think was already mentioned. Along with that it's basically a free night for a worthy cause as your entry fee goes towards the charity on the night, while you receive a bet voucher for a similar value in return. The Boyles sponsored night in Leopardstown a few years ago gave you an RP from that day and the next, a Festival Betting/Trends Guide, a ticket to the first day of the Punchestown Festival and a free bet. Then you got the views of a fairly decent panel too. I think if you don't take them seriously they can very enjoyable and can sometimes provide a few winners.

convert

I've renamed it 'Discussion on Cheltenham Preview Nights' as there's already a thread with dates for preview nights.

convert

For anyone wanting to post a date for a preview night, you can do so in this thread so it doesn't get lost in the noise of this thread.

hucklebuck

convert wrote: »

I'm sure it was a very friendly, special smile!

He never stops smiling so I wasn't sure if it was for me!!

tipster

hucklebuck wrote: »

I was at one a couple of years ago and Ruby was asked about Grands Crus and said "he is just a handicapper", I let a loud derisory rubbish out of me!

he was right

glinka

Have to admit to getting a few winners at decent prices from some of the previews.

Didn't get anything from last year's though, everything that was tipped didn't win with the exception of Sprinter Sacre who was unbackable at what I'd be investing.

Have to say it's worth watching Boards during the festival. Last year Ted Veale purely because of something I read on Boards and it was a nice price on the last day.

woodlands

I find the journalists the best at the previews....Brian Flanagan of the star has given some crackers in Ashbourne over the last few years!!

tonic wine

woodlands wrote: »

I find the journalists the best at the previews....Brian Flanagan of the star has given some crackers in Ashbourne over the last few years!!

I would agree with this. The jockeys can be good craic, but I've had a few big price winners that were highlighted by some journalists.

the cat burglar

Barney Curly ran one of these a few years back in DCU in aid of his charity DAFA. Victor Chandler gave out a load of free bets and Barney advised everyone to have a good bet on captain cee bee to win the supreme novice (duely won at 6/1 I think), throw in the beer and a good night was had by all.

Tom Mullins is great at these, gets pissed and tells everyone what the Mullins yard have backed ante post. Doesn't have much of a clue about anything bar the championship races or races he has a runner in. You know he has no clue when sums up the race by saying "these can all beat each other" :-)

Mossey Joe

the cat burglar wrote: »

Barney Curly ran one of these a few years back in DCU in aid of his charity DAFA. Victor Chandler gave out a load of free bets and Barney advised everyone to have a good bet on captain cee bee to win the supreme novice (duely won at 6/1 I think), throw in the beer and a good night was had by all.

Tom Mullins is great at these, gets pissed and tells everyone what the Mullins yard have backed ante post. Doesn't have much of a clue about anything bar the championship races or races he has a runner in. You know he has no clue when sums up the race by saying "these can all beat each other" :-)

Was Mick Fitz at that one? And he was absolutely ballooned on stage??

JuniorB

the cat burglar wrote: »

Barney Curly ran one of these a few years back in DCU in aid of his charity DAFA. Victor Chandler gave out a load of free bets and Barney advised everyone to have a good bet on captain cee bee to win the supreme novice (duely won at 6/1 I think), throw in the beer and a good night was had by all.

Tom Mullins is great at these, gets pissed and tells everyone what the Mullins yard have backed ante post. Doesn't have much of a clue about anything bar the championship races or races he has a runner in. You know he has no clue when sums up the race by saying "these can all beat each other" :-)

Is it Tony Mullins you mean? Tom is a bit more refined!

kfallon

JuniorB wrote: »

Is it Tony Mullins you mean? Tom is a bit more refined!

It's definitely Tony Mullins, tried to tell us one year in Stillorgan that Cousin Vinny was that good he could win the Ascot Gold Cup or maybe an Arc :rolleyes:

Mossey Joe

kfallon wrote: »

It's definitely Tony Mullins, tried to tell us one year in Stillorgan that Cousin Vinny was that good he could win the Ascot Gold Cup or maybe an Arc :rolleyes:

Haha he told us CV was the next Istabraq at one of the previews and to barrel on for the supreme...Did he know he was actually a couple of boxes beside him i wonder:rolleyes:

glinka

I'd luv to go to a preview night that had all of the following

Francome, barry geraghty or ruby walsh, Tom Segal, Nicky Henderson and Tony Mullins with maybe Matt Chapman throwin to really shake things up. Fat chance and wouldn't expect to be told too many truths!!

BumperD

Add barney Curley and the bha handicapper you'd have a lively panel...:)

the cat burglar

Mossey Joe wrote: »

Was Mick Fitz at that one? And he was absolutely ballooned on stage??

Yeah that was the one, very funny. It's the reason I personally like going, you get to see jockeys and trainers in a more relaxed atmosphere than usual. The one last year in the Louis Fitzgerald hotel was very good, handy money for niall Quinn who turned up about 15 minutes before the end.

hucklebuck

glinka wrote: »

Last year Ted Veale purely because of something I read on Boards and it was a nice price on the last day.

That may have been me

Saw him do some serious work with Bennefficient on ATR and had decent bets on both.

I like going to the preview nights but wouldn't be holding out for good info.

tonic wine

the cat burglar wrote: »

Yeah that was the one, very funny. It's the reason I personally like going, you get to see jockeys and trainers in a more relaxed atmosphere than usual. The one last year in the Louis Fitzgerald hotel was very good, handy money for niall Quinn who turned up about 15 minutes before the end.

Quinn told a few funny stories when he did arrive. I think the only two horses he mentioned both won. He gave champagne fever as his NAP and Moyle park won the land rover in fairness to him.

glinka

Thanks for that post last year Hucklebuck,,,,,shud have thanked you on the day but I was too busy counting the winnings after adding Our Conor , At Fishers Cross and............ the very lucky to win I admit Salsify........to the docket with Ted Veale What a day!!!!!!!

hucklebuck

glinka wrote: »

Thanks for that post last year Hucklebuck,,,,,shud have thanked you on the day but I was too busy counting the winnings after adding Our Conor , At Fishers Cross and............ the very lucky to win I admit Salsify........to the docket with Ted Veale What a day!!!!!!!

No bother mate, went through the card on the Friday and brought the missus away to a suite in the Ritz Carlton and had a few grand left over. Looking to clean up again this year....

RichieLawlor

hucklebuck wrote: »

I was at one a couple of years ago and Ruby was asked about Grands Crus and said "he is just a handicapper", I let a loud derisory rubbish out of me!

Well it would seem Ruby won this battle :-)

hucklebuck

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Well it would seem Ruby won this battle :-)

Suppose beating a handicapper by 1 1/2 lengths off level weights was an emphatic victory.

I would be interested on hearing Rubys opinion on Big Bucks going down a length to a horse he was 21lbs well in with who received a 10L and 4lbs on the bridle hammering at the same course by said handicapper

supremenovice

Ive been to preview nights the past five years and I have to say Andrew Lynch is a fine tipster and a man not to be ignored. He usually turns up at the Francis McKennas preview in Harolds Cross.
When Sizing Europe won the Champion Chase, he said he rode him a couple days before and he never felt better and was all but nailed on for the win.
I think he came in at 12/1.
Sizing Australia as well for the Cross Country in the same year, he was very sweet on.

Also, when the MC asked him about Voler la Vadette in the World Hurdle couple years ago, he said very sharply "we'll finish second to Big Bucks" and handed back the mic.
I hope hes there again this year.

nuckeythompson

Castletroy Hotel in Limeirck feb 27th, Paddy Mullins and Bryan Cooper so far named. Details yet to be confimed ( UL Racing Society)

The Mig

Bakers Corner have confirmed their night for the 4th of March at 7pm. Denis Kirwan is doing MC

Panel:
Barry Geraghty
Jessica Harrington
Donn McLean
Dave Keena
Damien McElroy

Admission is €15 which includes a pint of Beamish, €50 Starsports Matched bet and finger food at the interval

premierstone

The Mig wrote: »

Bakers Corner have confirmed their night for the 4th of March at 7pm. Denis Kirwan is doing MC

Panel:
Barry Geraghty
Jessica Harrington
Donn McLean
Dave Keena
Damien McElroy

Admission is €15 which includes a pint of Beamish, €50 Starsports Matched bet and finger food at the interval

I'd pay €20 if I didn't have to drink the pint of Beamish!