Final rotary polishing for black paint

sebastianlieken

As the title says...

Bonnet was in bad shape, had a respray, 1500 grit to remove orange peel, yesterday I hit it with Farcella G3 but I couldn't get rid of some of scratches so I hit it with G6 which did a lovely job, however I do have quite a few holograms still. Next run will be G3 again but I reckon i'll need something even finer again to get a nice finish. It's Gloss black VW paint.

I'm thinking Farcella G10 for the final run? Anything cheaper/better?

Also, what's the best pad to use for final polishing?

Curran

VW paint is quite hard so you'll still need a pad and polish combo with a bit of cut to remove the holograms.
On harder paints I quite like CGs Hex Logic Black pads, with any finishing polish really, but works well with their own V38.

sebastianlieken

Would you reckon i'd be alright getting a good finish with G3 even? provided I work the polish in fully?

It is volkswagen gloss black BUT it's been resprayed and it hasn't been baked in an oven. It's 2k paint and air dried so perhaps not as hard as the OEM paint (?)

£13 for those polishing pads! yikes... I hope they last a while...

Curran

If its not an OEM finish then it could be any hardness, as you say.
Ive no experience with Farecla products, but with any polish that doesn't have lots of cut, worked well with the correct pressure can finish down fairly well...its a matter of patience...so much so it can be frustrating trying to do it and not leave holograms.

The Hex Logic pads are durable pads, most pads are anyways if kept away from edges and panel gaps.

What pads are you currently using?

sebastianlieken

i'm using this pad; cheap and cheerful but it seems pretty nice

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-868541-Red-Polishing-Sponge/dp/B000LFVZIU/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389604406&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=silverline+red+finishing+pad

I think I have to refine my technique a bit more to get rid of the holograms aswell though.

i'm studying this bad boy of a post for pointers: http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=66024

"The zenith approach"

I think i'm going to have to be more patient and really let the polish break down properly.

Sidewayslarry

G3 is very abrasive so won't remove hologrames, if anything it will mar the paint even more. G10 would refine it a little bit but from my experience of using any Farecle products, I have always had to finish it with a more refined finishing polish. From my own experience of finishing car paint over the past 12 years, Menzerna is without equal. Lately Chemical Guys new V range of compounds is doing a decent job, and I also found Scholl did a decent job. Other than that nothing else has stood out to give a flawless finish

sebastianlieken

Sidewayslarry wrote: »

G3 is very abrasive so won't remove hologrames, if anything it will mar the paint even more. G10 would refine it a little bit but from my experience of using any Farecle products, I have always had to finish it with a more refined finishing polish. From my own experience of finishing car paint over the past 12 years, Menzerna is without equal. Lately Chemical Guys new V range of compounds is doing a decent job, and I also found Scholl did a decent job. Other than that nothing else has stood out to give a flawless finish

Could you recommend a good Menzerna or Chemical guys polish to use as a finish on my black VW paint?

Sidewayslarry

sebastianlieken wrote: »

Could you recommend a good Menzerna or Chemical guys polish to use as a finish on my black VW paint?

Menzerna SF4500 should do the trick for you. The only thing I would advise is that you will need something in between the G3 and the finishing polish, as the G3 will leave deep marring. Maybe G6 and then finish with the menzerna.

Chemical Guys V38 will also do a decent job of finishing it down.

I would be very careful polishing though as G3 is so strong and you say above that you have already used the G3 twice on the car and G6 also, you will need to be careful with the paint depth. VW paint is a very hard paint from the factory but G3 will still go through it in a short space of time.

Throw up a few pics of her when your finished

sebastianlieken

Sidewayslarry wrote: »

Menzerna SF4500 should do the trick for you. The only thing I would advise is that you will need something in between the G3 and the finishing polish, as the G3 will leave deep marring. Maybe G6 and then finish with the menzerna.



Throw up a few pics of her when your finished

I've ordered some Menzerna SF4000 (85RE) for my final finish. Gonna slap that on and see if I get the results that I want. (couldn't find SF4500 but from what I read, the 4000 should be more than enough)

I'll throw up pics if i'm not totally embarresed by the results! :pac:

randy hickey

sebastianlieken wrote: »

I've ordered some Menzerna SF4000 (85RE) for my final finish. Gonna slap that on and see if I get the results that I want. (couldn't find SF4500 but from what I read, the 4000 should be more than enough)

I'll throw up pics if i'm not totally embarresed by the results! :pac:

http://www.cleancar.ie/menzerna-sf4000-85re-finishing-polish-250ml.html

Get the finger out Larry, it's out of stock atm!!

sebastianlieken

Alas, I am on the Queens side of the border in the tropical north.

I used polishedbliss.co.uk as I can pay in pounds and get free delivery. £9 for 250ml of SF4000.

should do the trick! (I got a new soft pad for it aswell for extra shineyness)

On a related note, can I polish my windscreen with SF4000 or is that a bit risky? I have some wiper scratches

Sidewayslarry

sebastianlieken wrote: »

Alas, I am on the Queens side of the border in the tropical north.

I used polishedbliss.co.uk as I can pay in pounds and get free delivery. £9 for 250ml of SF4000.

should do the trick! (I got a new soft pad for it aswell for extra shineyness)

On a related note, can I polish my windscreen with SF4000 or is that a bit risky? I have some wiper scratches

Thats the job - you have to look after your back pocket

Yeah you can polish the windscreen with that no problem.

MetzgerMeister

I use Menzerna FG400 or FG500 followed by CG's V38 finishing polish and it produces a great finish!

With regard to getting scratches out of your windscreen, you might be better off with CeriGlass and a rayon pad as they are specifically designed for removing scratches from glass.

I got rid of very, very bad scratches on my own windscreen using that combination

sebastianlieken

i'm just a bit worried about leaving holograms on my windscreen. That would be very very bad indeed.

Curran

sebastianlieken wrote: »

i'm just a bit worried about leaving holograms on my windscreen. That would be very very bad indeed.

You wont leave holograms on the windscreen with a regular pad and polish. The one thing to be aware of is heat build up which potentially could warp the glass leaving a distortion in it, which will affect your view.

MetzgerMeister

Curran wrote: »

You wont leave holograms on the windscreen with a regular pad and polish. The one thing to be aware of is heat build up which potentially could warp the glass leaving a distortion in it, which will affect your view.

Good point about the heat build up!

You won't leave holograms with a rayon pad, CeriGlass and a D/A. I haven't used my rotary polisher on the windscreen but I don't think it would cause any holograms no more than using it to do a paint correction.

sebastianlieken

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Good point about the heat build up!

You won't leave holograms with a rayon pad, CeriGlass and a D/A. I haven't used my rotary polisher on the windscreen but I don't think it would cause any holograms no more than using it to do a paint correction.

oh this would be the perfect time for me to upload a picture of my rotary skills and the impressive extent of the hologram trails that I left

it's a learning process! i'm getting there though

actually; i've attached a bit of a slide show of what i've been upto - I havn't been photo-documenting it at all and these are just comments alongside a random compilation of photos that I had on my phone. Sorry about bad quality pics but hey, it's better than nothing!

Just to clarify: Whole bonnet sprayed with 2k paint. 1500 grit wet sanded.2 rounds of Farcele G3. 1 round of G6 so far. Final polishing round will (hopefully) be Menzerna SF4000 (95RE)

MetzgerMeister

If you spent as long learning how to rotary polish as you did putting that slideshow together, you'd be a pro :P

sebastianlieken

oh har har!

Really I would like to have had more time using the rotary already but it aint easy getting the time to polish these days. I have to do it outside and only at the weekends as I need the natural light (I don't have anywhere to work on it during the week). It's been pissing rain for the past few weekends here aswell so my oppertunities have been slim.

I think my two main problems so far have been:
Not working the compound/polish in enough until it has broken down.
Working over too large an area (whole bonnet).

Curran

Another thing to work on is trying to keep the pad as parallel to the surface as possible. Pressure on the edges of the pad is a sure way to get harsh holograms. Dont be afraid to work the polish very well; when it turns clear its broken down, but can be worked for quite a while after this too.

Sidewayslarry

sebastianlieken wrote: »

oh har har!

Really I would like to have had more time using the rotary already but it aint easy getting the time to polish these days. I have to do it outside and only at the weekends as I need the natural light (I don't have anywhere to work on it during the week). It's been pissing rain for the past few weekends here aswell so my oppertunities have been slim.

I think my two main problems so far have been:
Not working the compound/polish in enough until it has broken down.
Working over too large an area (whole bonnet).

That G3 is a very hard compound to work with anyway, and it is not a diminishing compound so it won't break down as you work. It also needs to be lubricated, so make sure you are using a good mist of water on the pad and the bonnet when using the Farecle compounds. This will definitely help.

sebastianlieken

Curran wrote: »

Another thing to work on is trying to keep the pad as parallel to the surface as possible. Pressure on the edges of the pad is a sure way to get harsh holograms. Dont be afraid to work the polish very well; when it turns clear its broken down, but can be worked for quite a while after this too.

Will try and do! cheers. See if I'm using the SF4000, you're saying that I can really work it in and even beyond the point where it has gone clear, my worry is that the surfaces go very dry, Do I mist with water at all with the Menzerna stuff or are the lubricants in it perfectly adequate?

Sidewayslarry wrote: »

That G3 is a very hard compound to work with anyway, and it is not a diminishing compound so it won't break down as you work. It also needs to be lubricated, so make sure you are using a good mist of water on the pad and the bonnet when using the Farecle compounds. This will definitely help.

Lots of water in my little spray bottle :pac:. messy messy work!



And lastly, would you guys split a bonnet like that into like 4 or 5 sections to be worked on individually?

Sidewayslarry

Yeah I would generally do a bonnet in 4 sections at a time

MetzgerMeister

Sidewayslarry wrote: »

Yeah I would generally do a bonnet in 4 sections at a time

:eek::eek: 4 sections at a time????

I'd split it into 4 sections and only do 1 at a time!!

Curran

sebastianlieken wrote: »

Will try and do! cheers. See if I'm using the SF4000, you're saying that I can really work it in and even beyond the point where it has gone clear, my worry is that the surfaces go very dry, Do I mist with water at all with the Menzerna stuff or are the lubricants in it perfectly adequate?

When working in large sections, the polish can dry out quite quickly also. The SF4000 should have enough lubricants in it, not to needs any misting of water. Work the polish while it still has an oily look too it, if it dries out and the pad starts hopping, you've worked it too much / too quickly.

Working the bonnet might be best in 6 sections - down the middle and 3 sections either side.

Just a quick question...what speeds are you using the rotary at? Generally speaking, on most rotarys you'd only have to go to about speed setting 4 / 4.5, never max speed.

Sidewayslarry

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

:eek::eek: 4 sections at a time????

I'd split it into 4 sections and only do 1 at a time!!

Haha - Doh!!! lol

sebastianlieken

Curran wrote: »

When working in large sections, the polish can dry out quite quickly also. The SF4000 should have enough lubricants in it, not to needs any misting of water. Work the polish while it still has an oily look too it, if it dries out and the pad starts hopping, you've worked it too much / too quickly.

Working the bonnet might be best in 6 sections - down the middle and 3 sections either side.

Just a quick question...what speeds are you using the rotary at? Generally speaking, on most rotarys you'd only have to go to about speed setting 4 / 4.5, never max speed.

I'm not sure what the numerical setting is, but in terms of rpm, I was going 900-1200-1500-1200-900

I havn't even gone near the max speed on it.

Hopefully I'll get another run at it this weekend. I'm looking outside right now at the sunny clear blue skies thinking "dammit, why am I here in work "

vintagevrs

Larry,

I called you on Saturday and ordered your polisher starter kit, arrived today so thanks for the prompt service. I spent two hours this evening on the boot lid. Tried to read up a good bit before I started and was going to leave it until the weekend but thought then I may as well give this polishing a go tonight, no time like the present!

It was a bit daunting as at times I wasn't sure was the paint ever going to clear up but I persisted.

I tried the lightest pad and SF4500 first but there was still a decent amount of marks on the paint, so then I tried PF2400 with the medium pad and after this another run with the lighter pad and SF4500. I am happy enough with the result but there still are some minor marks in the paint.

Should I try the FG400 with the most abrasive pad to remove these, or is this risky for someone completely new to this?

I masked half the bootlid to see the before/after difference, with the picture below.

I'm not sure if the marks on the side that has been polished can be seen there, but maybe it's best for me to leave it.






I'm happy with what I have done so far. Can it be too cold to be doing this? I was in the garage but it must be close to freezing outside.

MetzgerMeister

Excellent results vrs! WIth regard to using a heavier pad/polish to get out the remaining marks, IMO you should oo the whole car to that standard first to give yourself the best chance to get to know the machine and how it works etc. Then if you feel comfortable, give it a shot on a small area that you want to do and see how it goes. Be careful and don't over do it because some marks just can't be polished out

vintagevrs

That was what I was thinking of doing alright. It's a slow process....can't believe how bad the paint was, looks like it was rubbed with sandpaper!

Should I get some smaller pads for around the bumpers and curves in the bodywork?

MetzgerMeister

It is slow but when you're a beginner, slow is exactly what you want to minimize any potential damage

Getting the smaller pads is a good idea because there are bits on every car that using the big pads would just be plain and simply awkward and you could end up damaging another panel with the edge of the big pad.

EDIT: The temperature can play a part in how quick the job gets done. A certain level of heat is needed for the process, it even goes as far as knowing what substrate you're working with i.e. heat will dissipate/spread on a metal panel but stays centralized on the area you're working on when it comes to plastic/fibreglass panels.

Not something for you to worry about though, moreso getting into the real details of detailing with that.

sebastianlieken

That's an amazing 50:50! fair play! I didn't even spot the shinier surface straight away!

sebastianlieken

Right, I'm finally done! and it only took for-freekin-ever.

so the before pics are in that powerpoint .pdf. (I can't get onto photobucket in work and my camera at home was being "special" so appologies for the photography and organisational skills)





this went from:

• sanded down
• resprayed with 2k paint
• light sanding to remove orange peel and dust
• wet compounding with g3 (twice)
• compounding with G6
• Polishing with SF4000 (twice)
• AG SRP (2 applications)
• AG EGP (4 applications)
• TW Extreme nanotech speedwax (3 applications, just because I had it laying around)

*The bonnet was sprayed on Decemeber 9th so the paint has had ample time to cure properly before final polishing and sealant/wax applications.

It's lovely and shiney now

There are some small flaws which I wasn't able to photograph, they're lessons learnt really:

1. Some random scratches that I just wasn't able to remove through compounding. I asked the guy who sprayed and he said he sanded away the orange peel with 1200 grit which would explain why. No less than 1500 grit wet sanding for orange peel. (also, I have a sneaking suspicion he used the 1200grit before painting aswell. They don't look too bad and only exist in one or two small locations so i'm curious to see how it looks in the sun.
   
2. There are 3 tiny dents on the bonnet which may have already been there from stone chips or from carelessness in the repair process. I think I might be pedantic regarding these though as they are tiny, but if you've been working so closely with one panel for so long you start to notice every little thing.
   
3. The original repair is almost invisible, not even worth worth trying to photograph. BUT, I can see the outline if I look for it (because I know where it is). I think it's the outline of the primer that was sprayed locally over the filler - might have something to do with it not getting a final flush sanding before respray. (I can't remember but i think I sprayed it with primer and asked the guy to sand it before spraying the bonnet... i think he may have neglected to sand it properly.

Anywho, I'm looking forward to getting it out ito the sunshine, the great revealer of all flaws.

I might have to take the rotary polisher to the front wings a bit to blend it in a bit. we'll see.

Curran

Looks very well! Good work!
I'd say you'll definitely have to take the polisher to the front wings...then the doors, roof, back, bumpers! Jobs a good'un then!

sebastianlieken

Curran wrote: »

Looks very well! Good work!
I'd say you'll definitely have to take the polisher to the front wings...then the doors, roof, back, bumpers! Jobs a good'un then!

haha, I was just saying that to my mate here! I'll maybe wait until the spring when we get some longer days and better weather!