British Isles.

CB19Kevo

Chris Hadfield posted a image explaining the British isles and the various divisions within it, All okay and factual although lacking smaller detail.

This was met by a tirade of objection, Many saying we are not part of the British isles and taking it as an insult to national identity.

Well.. We are and so what.... ITS GEOGRAPHY.. nothing more,nothing less.

Ten of Swords

Jaysus, outrage for the sake of outrage.

He'd better not do any diagrams with flags or he really will be in a world of trouble

Links234

CB19Kevo wrote: »

Well.. We are and so what.... ITS GEOGRAPHY.. nothing more,nothing less.

This is Ireland, people don't like inconvenient things like facts getting in the way of grumbling about the English

wazky

Sure I seen him firing a few blocks at police lines during the last peaceful fleg protest.

riffmongous

But the name was given to it by people for historical reasons, its not pyhsical, why cant people object to it?

Kylo Ren

But its the Irish sea! Waaaaaaaay Britain. Tiocfaidh ar la.

Lenin Skynard

Seems like an oudated term like "prussia" or "indo-china". We could do with a modern, less ambiguous name to reference the region.

CB19Kevo

riffmongous wrote: »

But the name was given to it by people for historical reasons, its pyhsical, why cant people object to it?

If people want to appeal for it to be changed than by all means do, However as it stands our island is part of the British isles and until such times as that is officially renamed the current title will remain printed in Geography books and referenced online.

riffmongous

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Seems like an oudated term like "prussia" or "indo-china". We could do with a modern, less ambiguous name to reference the region.

Exactly

BlurstMonkey

It's Britain and Ireland. There's nothing complicated about that.
The idea that people can be accused of being nationalist nutters for stipulating that is absurd. This is Ireland, not Britain. It's not colonial times and there is nothing wrong with pointing that out and everything right about pointing that out.

Even with regard to the North. It isn't part of Britain, it's a part of the UK. Britain is England, Scotland and Wales. Learn some geography people.

srsly78

The "Britons" were a celtic tribe, much like us Gaelic types. This is where the name comes from. They get shoved over to wales by those orrible Anglo-Saxons tho...

Just to add to peoples confusion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:British_Isles_Euler_diagram_15.svg

riffmongous

CB19Kevo wrote: »

If people want to appeal for it to be changed than by all means do, However as it stands our island is part of the British isles and until such times as that is officially renamed the current title will remain printed in Geography books and referenced online.

Officially? So who is in charge of this?

FearDark

I don't know why OP made this thread.

keith16

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Seems like an oudated term like "prussia" or "indo-china". We could do with a modern, less ambiguous name to reference the region.

I think something like the Islands of the North Atlantic (IONA) was proposed previously.

Meh.

CB19Kevo

This is the image Chris posted.
https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1532165_729333360417737_1488346189_n.png
He clearly was not trying to anger anyone as its just factual,Why people are getting so upset over this i will never know.

Red Kev

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Seems like an oudated term like "prussia" or "indo-china". We could do with a modern, less ambiguous name to reference the region.

It's been referred to as the British isles for about 2000 years, it's only now we seem to have a problem with it.

So what do you suggest we change it to ?

And what about the Irish Sea ? What should we call that ? And the thousands of other places that will need to be renamed because somebody is unhappy with the connotations of the name.

There's nothing wrong with the name IMO, just with people who seem to have nothing else to do but whinge about something new every week.

periodictable

People had such important things to exercise their minds especially when less important things are happening like kids and civilians getting blown to pieces in Syria for example.
SKY TV, British newspapers, same language, Ryanair, FA teams....how much less could we have in common with the Brits?

CB19Kevo

riffmongous wrote: »

Officially? So who is in charge of this?

Yes as in a clear decision,maybe at a European level to rename the 6000 islands that make up the current british isles.

Ten of Swords

Greek explorers gave the name Βρεττανικαὶ νῆσοι (Pretannic islands) nearly 2 millenia ago and the modern name is believed to have evolved from that.

riffmongous

CB19Kevo wrote: »

Yes as in a clear decision,maybe at a European level to rename the 6000 islands that make up the current british isles.

And well since you didnt answer my question properly, it seems there is no need for an official decision from anyone, since there is no one in charge of it, it seems a few years ago Folens the atlas publishers decided to stop using the phrase themselves

Lenin Skynard

Red Kev wrote: »

It's been referred to as the British isles for about 2000 years, it's only now we seem to have a problem with it.

So what do you suggest we change it to ?

And what about the Irish Sea ? What should we call that ? And the thousands of other places that will need to be renamed because somebody is unhappy with the connotations of the name.

There's nothing wrong with the name IMO, just with people who seem to have nothing else to do but whinge about something new every week.

2000 years? :pac:

There's plenty of other things you could call it without referring to a nationality.

CB19Kevo

riffmongous wrote: »

At which european level??

I have no interest in changing it so i have no intention in researching what would be involved in such a move..
You clearly seem interested so google is ready for you.

Red Kev

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

2000 years? :pac:

There's plenty of other things you could call it without referring to a nationality.

The earliest known references to the islands as a group appeared in the writings of sea-farers from the ancient Greek colony of Massalia.[23][24] The original records have been lost; however, later writings , e.g. Avienus's Ora maritima, that quoted from the Massaliote Periplus (6th century BC) and from Pytheas's On the Ocean (circa 325–320 BC)[25] have survived. In the 1st century BC, Diodorus Siculus has Prettanikē nēsos,[26] "the British Island", and Prettanoi,[27] "the Britons".[24] Strabo used Βρεττανική (Brettanike),[28][29][30] and Marcian of Heraclea, in his Periplus maris exteri, used αἱ Πρεττανικαί νῆσοι (the Prettanic Isles) to refer to the islands.[31] Historians today, though not in absolute agreement, largely agree that these Greek and Latin names were probably drawn from native Celtic-language names for the archipelago.[32] Along these lines, the inhabitants of the islands were called the Πρεττανοί (Priteni or Pretani).[24][33] The shift from the "P" of Pretannia to the "B" of Britannia by the Romans occurred during the time of Julius Caesar.[34]

From Wiki ^

It's named after a race/tribe of people, not a nation. Mighty as well rename France, Germany and Christ knows where else if that's the case.

riffmongous

CB19Kevo wrote: »

I have no interest in changing it so i have no intention in researching what would be involved in such a move..
You clearly seem interested so google is ready for you.

I already answered it for you, I edited the post above

And well since you didnt answer my question properly, it seems there is no need for an official decision from anyone, since there is no one in charge of it, it seems a few years ago Folens the atlas publishers decided to stop using the phrase themselves

Phoebas

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

2000 years? :pac:

There's plenty of other things you could call it without referring to a nationality.

People can call them anything they want: "These Islands" or "Britain and Ireland" or whatever.
"British Isles" seems to be the most common term chosen by most organisations and individuals. Live and let live.

P_1

British Isles, any relation of Carlin and is he any good on the wing?

My name is URL

Do people in the Isle of Man ever argue that they aren't situated in the Irish Sea?

People are idiots

BlurstMonkey

Red Kev wrote: »

It's been referred to as the British isles for about 2000 years, it's only now we seem to have a problem with it.

So what do you suggest we change it to ?

And what about the Irish Sea ? What should we call that ? And the thousands of other places that will need to be renamed because somebody is unhappy with the connotations of the name.

There's nothing wrong with the name IMO, just with people who seem to have nothing else to do but whinge about something new every week.

Do you have any issues with Ireland and Britain.

Listen, it is important. Everything matters to varying degrees. You might not think it matters. In which case you are absolutely in here whinging about nothing. Everyone else is having a perfectly normal discussion.

If you don't care then don't post, it's a nicer thing to do than belittling others for talking about something you don't think matters, thanks for the input anyway though.

Phoebas

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

Listen, it is important.

Why is it important to you about how other people choose to refer to the British Isles?

BlurstMonkey

Phoebas wrote: »

Why is it important to you about how other people choose to refer to the British Isles?

I didn't say it was personally important to me, but that it is important in that there are degrees of merit with regard to the naming of things. Language matters, and there is nothing wrong with discussing these things. It matters from a social and cultural point of view.
Now why don't you think it matters?

kylith

The term doesn't bother me. Ireland is part of the British Isles in the same way that Canada is part of the Americas.

Duckworth_Luas

Not this $hit again!

I'm a geographer. The British Isles is an outdated term that has no official recognition. Neither the Irish government or the British government use the term. The Irish government actively discourage it's usage.

I studied in the UK. The term was given to us as the best example of nomenclature being used as cartographic propaganda. "These are the British Isles, both these islands belong to Britain".

The Irish Sea is often given as an example of why there's nothing wrong with the term, except it's an entirely different thing altogether.

riffmongous

kylith wrote: »

The term doesn't bother me. Ireland is part of the British Isles in the same way that Canada is part of the Americas.

Not really the same though, if you changed it to the American's then it would be more similar

My name is URL

To be fair though, only a complete knobhead would causally refer to either island as 'the British Isles'

If you asked someone where they were from and they said the British Isles, you'd laugh at them.

Phoebas

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

I didn't say it was personally important to me, but that it is important in that there are degrees of merit with regard to the naming of things. Language matters, and there is nothing wrong with discussing these things. It matters from a social and cultural point of view.
Now why don't you think it matters?

I didn't say it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter to me.

You're saying that it matters and that its important, but I don't know why its important to some people the names other people give to the British Isles.

BlurstMonkey

Phoebas wrote: »

I didn't say it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter to me.

You're saying that it matters and that its important, but I don't know why its important to some people the names other people give to the British Isles.

Second time in a row you've said that directly while not saying anything else at all. Subtlety antagonistic, bit sad. Anyway, I gave you my answer.

Phoebas

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

Second time in a row you've said that directly while not saying anything else at all. Subtlety antagonistic, bit sad. Anyway, I gave you my answer.

I'm being antagonistic by using the phrase 'British Isles' in a thread entitled "British Isles'? :eek:

It really does seem to piss some people off. I really don't understand why.

BlurstMonkey

Phoebas wrote: »

I'm being antagonistic by using the phrase 'British Isles' in a thread entitled "British Isles'? :eek:

It really does seem to piss some people off. I really don't understand why.

So you keep saying. Sorry you're so confused! :P
Good luck with figuring it all out.

WesternZulu

I think the reason that people have a problem with the term is that it implies ownership.

Doesn't mean that someone is a raging Ra head to object to it.
It's an outdated term anyway.

Do you not think that a British person would not be a small bit peeved if they were called The Irish Isles instead :pac:

Legs.Eleven

I don't like it for the reason that it causes confusion abroad. The vast majority of Spaniards think that the Republic of Ireland is part of Britain. When they say to me, "Aren't you in the British Isles though?" and I try to clear up the misunderstanding, they think I'm being a bit nationalist, English-hating RA head. It shouldn't bother me but it does.


British Isles means they are the islands of Britain, which is incorrect.

--Kaiser--

I've heard 'Northern Atlantic Archipelago' posited as an alternative. Can't see it catching on

srsly78

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I don't like it for the reason that it causes confusion abroad. The vast majority of Spaniards think that the Republic of Ireland is not part of Britain. When they say to me, "Aren't you in the British Isles though?" and I try to clear up the misunderstanding, they think I'm being a bit nationalist, English-hating RA head. It shouldn't bother me but it does.

Has it ever occurred to you that the Spaniards are correct?

Davidius

Red Kev wrote: »

It's been referred to as the British isles for about 2000 years, it's only now we seem to have a problem with it.

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Greek explorers gave the name Βρεττανικαὶ νῆσοι (Pretannic islands) nearly 2 millenia ago and the modern name is believed to have evolved from that.

The original Greek name did not 'evolve' to its current usage in English, it was unused for quite some time until it was borrowed from Ancient Greek texts into Early Modern English by British writers. Its first usage in English reflected certain political ambitions in England at the time.

The term does not have an apolitical or particularly long history in English but more importantly it functions poorly as a descriptor. It often leads to confusion about who or what is and isn't British, and is often employed in non-geographic circumstances (often as a last resort to keep Ireland under some 'British' banner depending on the writer). I think Anglo-Celtic Isles is a grand term if the archipelago really needs a name other than Britain and Ireland.

srsly78

Davidius wrote: »

I think Anglo-Celtic Isles is a grand term if the archipelago really needs a name other than Britain and Ireland.

Do you not think the Saxons would object?

Phoebas

WesternZulu wrote: »

Do you not think that a British person would not be a small bit peeved if they were called The Irish Isles instead :pac:

Like the way they're always up in arms over "The Irish Sea"?

Davidius

srsly78 wrote: »

Do you not think the Saxons would object?

They don't seem to mind the name 'England' so I can't imagine so.

moxin

Phoebas wrote: »

Like the way they're always up in arms over "The Irish Sea"?

No humans live n the Irish Sea unless mankind has evolved to live under water. :rolleyes: So it affects no-one there. On land, we're an Irish Isle as you know where the Irish are from.

Duckworth_Luas

Phoebas wrote: »

Like the way they're always up in arms over "The Irish Sea"?

FFS!

The Irish Sea is the English language term for that body of water. It means the "body of water you cross to reach Ireland from England". Just as the English Channel means the "body of water you cross to reach England from Europe". Ownership is not implied. In Irish it was originally called Muir Meann.

riffmongous

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I don't like it for the reason that it causes confusion abroad. The vast majority of Spaniards think that the Republic of Ireland is not part of Britain. When they say to me, "Aren't you in the British Isles though?" and I try to clear up the misunderstanding, they think I'm being a bit nationalist, English-hating RA head. It shouldn't bother me but it does.


British Isles means they are the islands of Britain, which is incorrect.

I have also encountered confusion over it here in Austria too, even your post is a little confused between Britain versus the UK I think :P If only there was a word to describe people from the UK it would be much easier, instead Britain, Great Britain, the UK and Britishness are always getting mixed up

Dyr

Sure you cant expect an american to be sensitive to such things

WesternZulu

Phoebas wrote: »

Like the way they're always up in arms over "The Irish Sea"?

I think that it's fairly obvious that the two are different.
You often get sea's named after a country or the region of coast which a particular sea is off , i.e. the Indian Sea, The Baltic Sea, Bay of Bengal.

What you don't see is countries in one region named after just one country in that region.
You have terms like Scandinavia, Benelux, the Caribbean, Iberia, e.t.c, but none imply ownership of one country over another...why can't it be the same for these islands?