Planning for 2014- IFJ

locky76

Hey folks,
Some useful pointers in last weeks journal to improve profitability of suckler farm, I'd be interested to hear what people think of each one...

1. Buy & use a set of weighing scales
2. Cull non performing cows
3. Tighten up the calving schedule
4. Manage the grass better
5. Put together a herd health plan & stick to it
6. Complete a profit monitor
7. Go down the factory line and see how cattle kill out
8. Do your sums too see if it is profitable to winter cattle
9. Soil test the farm
10. Start a reseeding programme

bob charles

locky76 wrote: »

Hey folks,
Some useful pointers in last weeks journal to improve profitability of suckler farm, I'd be interested to hear what people think of each one...

1. Buy & use a set of weighing scales
2. Cull non performing cows
3. Tighten up the calving schedule
4. Manage the grass better
5. Put together a herd health plan & stick to it
6. Complete a profit monitor
7. Go down the factory line and see how cattle kill out
8. Do your sums too see if it is profitable to winter cattle
9. Soil test the farm
10. Start a reseeding programme

most of these options cost of money which may not even cover their costs. yes your business will look better on paper but worse in your pocket. the price of efficiency is never talked about

Farmer Pudsey

locky76 wrote: »

Hey folks,
Some useful pointers in last weeks journal to improve profitability of suckler farm, I'd be interested to hear what people think of each one...

1. Buy & use a set of weighing scales
2. Cull non performing cows
3. Tighten up the calving schedule
4. Manage the grass better
5. Put together a herd health plan & stick to it
6. Complete a profit monitor
7. Go down the factory line and see how cattle kill out
8. Do your sums too see if it is profitable to winter cattle
9. Soil test the farm
10. Start a reseeding programme

1 I am think about it but it also add extra workload and cost. With cattle you buy in you could compare mart weights to ones a few weeks later and the same with private sales. You can also weight stock you purchase privately to see how good your eye is. Costs about 1K.

2 something I agree with even though not in sucklers should be cost neutral
3 again should be more or less cost neutral.
4 If it works more than likely worth 1K or more on even a small farm.
5 Not a big deal and costs nothing it is more about managing Fluke however would be slow spending a fortune on Vaccines.
6 There are lies dam lies stastics and profit monitors
7 Definatly something that you should do to see the way different cattle hang and kill out. Loads of lads have the breakfast and watch the weights you learn a lot from going all the way down a line.
8 A good point '' yerra sure the silage is there'' says he in November working his cost off 20/bale. And pays 30-35/bale in march for a few loads.
9 Not expensive about 18/sample of 12 acres do once ever 5-6 years. Get one sample done for trace elements pick an average field.
10 About150-170/acre if you have you own sprayer and roller. If you look at a 10 year return 20/acre inc a bit of interest. Do 1/10 of the farm every year. See the farmers that do it are any going broke.

blue5000

locky76 wrote: »

Hey folks,
Some useful pointers in last weeks journal to improve profitability of suckler farm, I'd be interested to hear what people think of each one...

1. Buy & use a set of weighing scales
2. Cull non performing cows
3. Tighten up the calving schedule
4. Manage the grass better
5. Put together a herd health plan & stick to it
6. Complete a profit monitor
7. Go down the factory line and see how cattle kill out
8. Do your sums too see if it is profitable to winter cattle
9. Soil test the farm
10. Start a reseeding programme

My first instinct after coming in drowned after feeding fattening bulls, and a herd of suckler cows is 'What's the fcuking point in any of the above?'

I'm still in REPS so not allowed use phosphate so that makes 9 and 10 pointless.

Not profitable to winter cattle, do you mean winter finishing?

Always see my cattle killed anyway.

I have a done a profit monitor the last 3 yrs, yes there are benefits

Closed herd here, vaccinate only for what I need to, I still owe my vet for the last two tb tests so I think I'd be a bit too cheeky if I asked them to draw up a herd health plan.

Manage grass better, I think I'm doing ok, but not measuring it weekly, might be an option. Last year I didn't top at all, just baled and wrapped surpluses.

65% of my cows calved in March, If I take the bulls out earlier I'll have too many empty cows. It's a catch 22 situation, every heifer put to the bull is taking 1000 euro out of cash flow.

Cull non performing cows? How do you define non-performing? Fertility, milk yield Guesstimate? We're 50 years behind the dairy herd on milk yield measuring. If we weigh weanlings it's only a guide, a good calf could be stealing milk from another cow, making his mother look fantastic.

Yeah buy a scales, last autumn revenue stopped us claiming the vat back on them. So far I hire a guy in to weigh.

Sorry you got me on a bad day.

locky76

bob charles wrote: »

most of these options cost of money which may not even cover their costs. yes your business will look better on paper but worse in your pocket. the price of efficiency is never talked about

Most of these are revenue neutral Bob, Pudsey answered it better than I could.
I started implementing a lot of them when I joined Btap in 2012 and it is improving my profitability greatly along with the decision to finish all my own cattle and to up my numbers...
Like all Ifj/teagasc advice, I use it as a guide but it's not gospel...

bob charles

locky76 wrote: »

Most of these are revenue neutral Bob, Pudsey answered it better than I could.
I started implementing a lot of them when I joined Btap in 2012 and it is improving my profitability greatly along with the decision to finish all my own cattle and to up my numbers...
Like all Ifj/teagasc advice, I use it as a guide but it's not gospel...

1. Buy & use a set of weighing scales - cost, benefit I would question most I see on farms are standing against walls
2. Cull non performing cows costs, heifers cost big money but of course we have to strive to improve, culling for the sake of making say €50 more per year?
3. Tighten up the calving schedule will it leave a serious return, this costs money, do you cull anything that does fit in with this plan
4. Put together a herd health plan & stick to it I have a plan that I never stick to,
5. Complete a profit monitor whatever floats your boat
6. Go down the factory line and see how cattle kill out It will be unenomic for most weaning producer to bring cattle to finish
7. Do your sums too see if it is profitable to winter cattle dont think there is even a need to do the sums
8. Soil test the farm arguable
9. Start a reseeding programme if looking on a 10% reseed each year, im finding the swards from 7 years ago outperforming the new swards, I have never seen the reduced growth rate of the reseed on year 1 taken into account.

Farmer Pudsey

About reseeding Bob I look at it against old swards that are 20+ and have not been reseeded since compulsory tillage during WW11. I look at some of my paddocks and will be slow to reseed spot on 10 years but I have about 7-8Acres of old sward that I will reseed.

One other thing a lot of farmers do not relise the benefit od spraying old swards, If I had old swards I would first spray for weeds before I would ever reseed. If you have your own sprayer( and every farmer should) it will cost about 15/acre to spray with Hi load Micram which may increase grass o/p by 30%.

One of the jarmack (polish) sprayers cost about 1K it cheap and cheerful and I would buy before I but a scales or any other piece of machinery.

Farrell

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

About reseeding Bob I look at it against old swards that are 20+ and have not been reseeded since compulsory tillage during WW11. I look at some of my paddocks and will be slow to reseed spot on 10 years but I have about 7-8Acres of old sward that I will reseed.

One other thing a lot of farmers do not relise the benefit od spraying old swards, If I had old swards I would first spray for weeds before I would ever reseed. If you have your own sprayer( and every farmer should) it will cost about 15/acre to spray with Hi load Micram which may increase grass o/p by 30%.

One of the jarmack (polish) sprayers cost about 1K it cheap and cheerful and I would buy before I but a scales or any other piece of machinery.

The downside is how many Suckler Farms have land on a rent upwards yearly basis, the ground could do with a reseed, but "am I doing this for the next man" concern is there.
Maybe this new tax insentive for long term lease may help, but it'll not be short term

TUBBY

Sorry for going off thread. What are the implications and what is the benefit of the long term lease with the tax thing you mentioned.

Farrell

1. Buy & use a set of weighing scales - This would mean selling in Spec wealings, but what's the spec? Could be worthwhile
2. Cull non performing cows Do this anyway, too expensive to carry passangers - regardless
3. Tighten up the calving schedule - Have all within 1 month Autumn & Spring, go tighter?
4. Manage the grass better - This depends on the farm, but do rotate field by field system
5. Put together a herd health plan & stick to it - Dose every 6-8 weeks with Albex, maybe worth a try (but what's cost?)
6. Complete a profit monitor - Do for BTAP, but agree with Bob & Pudsey
7. Go down the factory line and see how cattle kill out - Going by ICBF, my stock is exported, I'd go to see them killed if IFJ would pay!:rolleyes:
8. Do your sums too see if it is profitable to winter cattle - If this is sell weanlings in Autumn / winter vs Spring, sadly this is year/time dependant - made lots keeping some years, lost by keeping others. it all depends on beef price at the time
9. Soil test the farm - might try this year
10. Start a reseeding programme - up for discussion

Farrell

TUBBY wrote: »

Sorry for going off thread. What are the implications and what is the benefit of the long term lease with the tax thing you mentioned.

http://www.teagasc.ie/advisory/farm_management/taxation/Medium-long_term_land_leasing_incentives.pdf

bob charles

Farrell wrote: »

http://www.teagasc.ie/advisory/farm_management/taxation/Medium-long_term_land_leasing_incentives.pdf

the very first bullet point makes the scheme no applicable for most people. Anyone I rent ground from has dam all off farm income to make any difference. Maybe in different parts of the country things are different. I worked well when the retirement scheme was in place but not now. most of the landlords around here are auld guys and girls with the rent being there private pension

blue5000

I honestly can't see how a suckler farmer can afford to rent land? Maybe with spare SFP money, but that is shrinking every year.

locky76

My tuppence worth:

1. Buy & use a set of weighing scales- bought it the first year of BTAP, weigh cattle 5 timnes over their lifetime, good indicator of what they will killout out at and also their expected weight in 9 months time etc. Most importantly is that it allows me to buy farm to farm, i agree a price per kg and weigh at my place
2. Cull non performing cows- Doing this by culling approx. 20% of the herd, bringing in new heifers every year, keeps the herd fresh and should up performace in the long run
3. Tighten up the calving schedule- I keep it to 8 weeks so can't see how i would have it any tighter, the one thing i should do is run the bull with the heifers 4 weeks before the cows to ensure he's working properly
4. Manage the grass better- I've improved a bit in this regard last year, I've paddocked and mapped all the farm and keep a log of all fertiliser spread, grass measuring is the next thing (shudder, shudder)
5. Put together a herd health plan & stick to it- this is something I need to do, I've a fairly set system in place so I would like a plan to follow although I realise it needs to be flexible
6. Complete a profit monitor- I've done it for 2011 & 2012, just completing 2013, I like the fact it shows what the other lads in Btap spread per acre, costs of contractors etc. etc.
7. Go down the factory line and see how cattle kill out- Never done it, can't see what it would offer, I get the fluke report back from ABP and the grade & fat score tell their own story
8. Do your sums too see if it is profitable to winter cattle- Yeah I'm ok at this however I do need to look at the turnover v profit debate... No point in filling a shed full of cattle if they're not leaving you anything, going to try the kale with 20 light heifers next winter
9. Soil test the farm- Done this and waiting on the results, I will fertilise appropriately, I've limed two fields which had a poor Ph from 4 years ago
10. Start a reseeding programme- Did some min-till in 2013, will try kale at the back end and use that as the driver for reseeding. Also have to reseed 8 acres this year which got ploughed a bit..

Anyway, it looks as if these things are self financing in my situation, they are also helping my bottom line (maybe not immediately in some places (reseeding etc.) but will long term...)