Are all estate agents the same?

lucanone

looking to buy a property in the Celbridge/Maynooth area. I have made and offer to the estate agent on a property and he said he would check with his client.

I received no word back after days so decided to ring him but no answer and left a message.

got a call back saying offer rejected so decided to put in our last possible offer. he said he would reply in the morning and that was days ago.

firstly i have my suspicions whether he contacted the client at all and was just trying to get me to lift my offer.

but now no response at all...should i contact him again or is he just letting me stew.

I'm new to all this as first time buyer but feel like I'm being messed around,

well known agent in this area too.

any advice what to do would be great.

Thank you in advance for any help.:)

L1011

In North Kildare/West Dublin, pretty much yes actually... experience range from one actually demanding to see my mortgage approval letter (so they could see the amount, clearly) through to another getting snotty when I mentioned the then looming property price register - and it turned out she had inflated the price she was claiming somewhere sold for.

lucanone

Would you call them or wait MYOB if you were in my boots?

cheers

drquirky

In my experience. Estate agents tend to be lying scumbags bereft of any moral compass. They are simply not to be trusted. Ireland's property market will continue to be one of the most corrupt property markets in the world if the current complete lack of regulation is allowed to continue.

L1011

lucanone wrote: »

Would you call them or wait MYOB if you were in my boots?

cheers

If its the agent I'm guessing it is, he's the most forgetful person I've ever dealt with so call him.

Wabbit Ears

yes, an estate agents job is to get as much money out of you as physically possible so they can get more in their percentage of the sale. They don't work for you so treat every interaction with them with suspicion, contempt and with the full knowledge they ARE out to get you, because that's their job.

odds_on

IF the estate agent is open tomorrow, contact them and say your offer stands until noon on Monday otherwise you will withdraw said offer.

Always be prepared to walk away -if you fall in love with a property you will be your own worst enemy.

If he's not there tomorrow, contact him first thing monday morning and give him until 5 p.m. Monday.

Always put a time frame in the picture.

lucanone

Will bell him Monday..can't go any higher than I have which is a very reasonable offer indeed.

Thanks for the advice all.

Hope it goes well but I will walk away if I have to.

Thanks again

Zzippy

Read this for an insight into why some estate agents don't come back to you sooner: http://premierpropertiesgalway.com/2013/09/how-to-deal-with-low-ball-offers/

BookBook

Zzippy wrote: »

Read this for an insight into why some estate agents don't come back to you sooner: http://premierpropertiesgalway.com/2013/09/how-to-deal-with-low-ball-offers/

Thanks so much for this Zzippy. I really think you should put this article up as a separate thread all on it's own.

caew

I'm in a similar position.

I put in an offer on a house last monday, the agent said they would ring me on the tuesday and didn't ring until Friday. She said they won't even consider my offer as it was too low. My reply being we must be near their price as it doesn't take 5 days to not consider an offer, some thought has gone into it.

we upped our offer as it is a house we like and it is our final offer. We have been waiting three days for a reply, this time she didn't even give me a timeline for ringing back.

I won't ring to follow up, I did the once and the agent said well if you want a response back quickly you need to up your offer. So I was immediately on the back foot.

My opinion is that they want to have the offer there while they do further viewings so they can tell people there is an offer of X amount on the house. I know they can say that anyway if they want but I think they are buying time.

dpofloinn

Yup every estate agent is slimey and snakey and would sell their mother to make an extra fiver.In the past I had to deal with one that kept trying to show us a 2 bed cottage on a main road with no parking despite the fact that we told him we were looking for a 4 bed away from main road turned out it was his parents cottage,dealt with another one who told us the seller had accepted our offer,lovely untill we went in to sign the relevant papers only to be told the seller no longer wanted to sell to us because they received a better offer,it later turned out that no other offer was made and was just the agent trying to screw more money out of us.So ya they are all the same if one tells you the sky is blue Id recommend looking outside just to be sure

zl1whqvjs75cdy

MAynooth/Celbridge is a nightmare at the moment. I live around there and have a friend looking to move to Maynooth. He says that houses have gone up 30K since the summer. Intel and Kerry group are really heating up the property market around here.

odds_on

caew wrote: »

I'm in a similar position.

I put in an offer on a house last monday, the agent said they would ring me on the tuesday and didn't ring until Friday. She said they won't even consider my offer as it was too low. My reply being we must be near their price as it doesn't take 5 days to not consider an offer, some thought has gone into it.

we upped our offer as it is a house we like and it is our final offer. We have been waiting three days for a reply, this time she didn't even give me a timeline for ringing back.

I won't ring to follow up, I did the once and the agent said well if you want a response back quickly you need to up your offer. So I was immediately on the back foot.

My opinion is that they want to have the offer there while they do further viewings so they can tell people there is an offer of X amount on the house. I know they can say that anyway if they want but I think they are buying time.

I bought a property in the last month and I dealt directly with the vendor.

When house hunting and with an agent I always said that I was not interested in a price war with someone else and if someone else wanted the property they could count me out.

Marchbride

odds_on wrote: »

I bought a property in the last month and I dealt directly with the vendor.

When house hunting and with an agent I always said that I was not interested in a price war with someone else and if someone else wanted the property they could count me out.

Do you mind me asking how you dealt directly with vendor? As in did you approach vendor after seeing house advertised or was it someone you knew? Thanks a mill

Carbon125

lucanone wrote: »

Would you call them or wait MYOB if you were in my boots?

I would try hard to find out who the seller is and deal with him directly. Not only are you being manipulated, as others have pointed out.
It is also very likely that the estate agent hasn't even mentioned your offer to the seller...

SimonLynch

Zzippy wrote: »

Read this for an insight into why some estate agents don't come back to you sooner: http://premierpropertiesgalway.com/2013/09/how-to-deal-with-low-ball-offers/

From experience, you always get a low ball offer and I mean derisory offer, pretty sure it's the agent sizing you up.

the_syco

lucanone wrote: »

can't go any higher than I have which is a very reasonable offer indeed.

Always offer 20k less than your max, so you have some "wriggle" room.

odds_on

Marchbride wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how you dealt directly with vendor? As in did you approach vendor after seeing house advertised or was it someone you knew? Thanks a mill

The vendor was advertising the property himself. I didn't even pay the usual deposit as we both concluded that it was really a waste of time as it is refunded in the event of a withdrawal on my side.

Anyway, he had all his paper work in order and an agreement with his bank. I found it much easier than dealing with EAs who really do naff all for their fees apart from putting up an advert on several sites.

Marchbride

odds_on wrote: »

The vendor was advertising the property himself. I didn't even pay the usual deposit as we both concluded that it was really a waste of time as it is refunded in the event of a withdrawal on my side.

Anyway, he had all his paper work in order and an agreement with his bank. I found it much easier than dealing with EAs who really do naff all for their fees apart from putting up an advert on several sites.

Oh that sounds so ideal odds on,
And had he just listed it on my home etc and you came across it? Would love that as I always think EA are putting a spin on things it's annoying!

odds_on

Marchbride wrote: »

Oh that sounds so ideal odds on,
And had he just listed it on my home etc and you came across it? Would love that as I always think EA are putting a spin on things it's annoying!

Listed on Daft.

My only miss-givings was that he left the add up while the solicitors were drawing up contracts, which worried me that someone else might put in a better offer; but he was an honest bloke and had no problems that way in the end.

lucanone

So I tried ringing him on Monday as people had recommended.
No answer so sent him a text looking for an update which he did reply to quickly stating the vendor was considering my offer and he should have an answer that evening (Monday).

i was delighted and was hopeful...

no reply Monday
no reply Tuesday (rang office and mobile and left messages with reception to contact me)
no reply Wednesday

so text him Wednesday and said i needed an answer either way as i was considering other properties.

within minutes he replied saying our offer wasn't accepted. and we would have to offer 10k more (leaves it at 5k under asking) and stated that offer mightn't even seal the deal.

i told him i was out and he cut me off saying if there's any change he'd let me know.


very strange he had known that and hadn't bothered informing me.

fair enough i mean i know they will try and get as much for the property as possible but i feel to this point the vendor is still unaware of the offers i have placed (15k under asking)

there needs to be legislation put in place to make this process more transparent and stop the under handedness that is going on.

its been a learning curve and i know you can't get emotionally attached to a property but after all isn't that what makes you put an offer down to start with.

hope i never meet this lad as i found him rude and unprofessional an i hope i never have any dealings with him again.

Thanks for all advice given.

BookBook

Sorry to hear that Lucanone. Hopefully the next property will be the one for you.

lucanone

cheers BookBook

odds_on

Marchbride wrote: »

Oh that sounds so ideal odds on,
And had he just listed it on my home etc and you came across it? Would love that as I always think EA are putting a spin on things it's annoying!

On thinking about it, Daft could very easily, in the advanced search, have a box to tick if you only wanted to see adverts that were vendors selling - similar to the one that they have for people who don't mind / want to rent a room from an owner landlord.

The could also do do with a check box for those who do NOT want to see auction sales.

cerastes

whats to stop people sending the seller a letter stating that they had made an offer and are uncertain if the offer has been passed on? with contact information?

odds_on

cerastes wrote: »

whats to stop people sending the seller a letter stating that they had made an offer and are uncertain if the offer has been passed on? with contact information?

Seller will probably still have to pay the EAs commission. Others don't want the hassle nor have the time or willingness.

cerastes

odds_on wrote: »

Seller will probably still have to pay the EAs commission. Others don't want the hassle nor have the time or willingness.

Might not want to but is there anything that prevents the seller from being in contact with a potential buyer if in an agreement with an EA. especially if it turns out an EA isn't passing on offers, whaat if the EA is thinking of a few quid extra on their commission, when a seller might be happy with a few thousand or a significant amount less if it meant they sold, at the least offers should always be passed on, but even with regulation how can that be assured.

the_syco

lucanone wrote: »

i told him i was out and he cut me off saying if there's any change he'd let me know.


very strange he had known that and hadn't bothered informing me.

A suspected "trick" from boom times was the EA not getting any bids, and then getting the seller to take a low-ball offer... from a friend/relative of the EA. Thus, pop in to the next door of the house, and see if they'd pass the bid along.

cerastes

the_syco wrote: »

A suspected "trick" from boom times was the EA not getting any bids, and then getting the seller to take a low-ball offer... from a friend/relative of the EA. Thus, pop in to the next door of the house, and see if they'd pass the bid along.

You're saying the EA claims no bids and sells it to a friend for a low value, right?

whats the last sentence mean?

At first I thought you were going to suggest, if the EA was claiming to getting no bids, get a friend of the seller to make an offer and see if they pass it on to the seller, thus knowing if the EA was being upfront.

lucanone

i managed to get the phone number of the vendor from doing a bit of detective work.
so decided to ring the vendor.
now you might think i have lost the plot but i really justed wanted to establish was the EA messing me around. fact is this estate agent has the lions share in celbridge maynooth and surrounding area so i may have to deal with them again.

rang the vendor and told him i was sorry for annoying him but due to lack of communication with EA i was contacting him directly. he was a gent and spoke freely with me.

i told him of my offer whichin fairness he told me he had received.

BUT: he said he never declined offer which he is now considering which is totally contradictory to the EA said. he told me that it had been declined and i would need to step up at least a further 10k and even that may not seal deal.

Fact is he is a complete and utter liar who as someone already mentioned is devoid of any moral compass. this lad is negiotiator for countless houses in this area so thats a lot of €'s being swindled from people who are trying to find a home.

you may say this is common knowledge but as i already mentioned im a first time buyer who was unaware (naive) to this.

Anyway vendor has told me he will discuss my offer further and may accept.
All i wanted was fairness.

murph226

Well done for following it up, let us know how you get on with the Vendor and good luck!

yankinlk

There will never be any transparncy in the irish home buying/selling process untill a seperate agent that can represent both buyer and seller enter this market.

In fact there is now even a worse situation developing as agents are requiring sellers to sign up to a contract PREVENTING them from listing with multiple agents at the same time. It beggars belief that this is allowed happen and has the potential to create an even bigger property bubble than last time.

Its a shame, as the profession is quite respected in other countries where a buying agent to actually helping people own their dream home.

odds_on

yankinlk wrote: »

There will never be any transparncy in the irish home buying/selling process untill a seperate agent that can represent both buyer and seller enter this market.

In fact there is now even a worse situation developing as agents are requiring sellers to sign up to a contract PREVENTING them from listing with multiple agents at the same time. It beggars belief that this is allowed happen and has the potential to create an even bigger property bubble than last time.

Its a shame, as the profession is quite respected in other countries where a buying agent to actually helping people own their dream home.

That, in my opinion, is where part of the problem lies. It prevents competition and the EA can just sit back until a client that he likes comes in looking for that type of property. He knows that eventually he will get the sale, and his commission, while doing the least amount of work.

Talk about having your cake and eating it. Just a different type of gravy train.

borderlinemeath

It baffles me why people are so surprised that EAs are out for every penny. EVERY salesperson, be they cars, houses, consumer goods, whatever they're selling - is out to get the maximum profit they can for themselves/their boss/their client so they can get paid and earn commission. It's their job, and yes they'll be economical with the truth to extort more money. If any poster here was in the same position they would do the same thing. They don't do it for the good of their health.

lucanone

borderlinemeath wrote: »

It baffles me why people are so surprised that EAs are out for every penny. EVERY salesperson, be they cars, houses, consumer goods, whatever they're selling - is out to get the maximum profit they can for themselves/their boss/their client so they can get paid and earn commission. It's their job, and yes they'll be economical with the truth to extort more money. If any poster here was in the same position they would do the same thing. They don't do it for the good of their health.

i have no problem with someone trying to get the best price for something they are selling. i have no problem with sales people doing the best for the clients or employers. however i do take offence and i do have a problem with people who are meant to be professional telling lies and be down right deceitful.

That is my code of ethics isnt acceptable and for people to say leave it, sure it is what it is are the very people who have this country destroyed. you are right, they are not doing it for their health they are doing it for their deep greedy pockets.

the longer people put up with and make excuses the longer this country will continue to suffer.

economical with the truth? extortion? no place for it and i won't accept or deal with that kind of so called professional.

borderlinemeath

lucanone wrote: »

i have no problem with someone trying to get the best price for something they are selling. i have no problem with sales people doing the best for the clients or employers. however i do take offence and i do have a problem with people who are meant to be professional telling lies and be down right deceitful.

That is my code of ethics isnt acceptable and for people to say leave it, sure it is what it is are the very people who have this country destroyed. you are right, they are not doing it for their health they are doing it for their deep greedy pockets.

the longer people put up with and make excuses the longer this country will continue to suffer.

economical with the truth? extortion? no place for it and i won't accept or deal with that kind of so called professional.

I never said leave it?

As a buyer, you always need to be wary. He did pass on the offer, but as you found out it wasn't completely dismissed, the vendor was 'considering it' as he told you. It's not completely contradictory, if the EA had told you that the vendor was 'considering it' you would be brimming with confidence that you would get it at the price offered. He twisted the truth to benefit his client and for you not to get your hopes up. Don't forget, you were the one that contacted the EA as he didn't get back to you in a timely manner, (while the vendor was considering it and hadn't given a final answer) you just wouldn't wait and acted like an eager buyer. I'm not surprised that the EA acted as he did, given you showed how interested you were. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm certainly not surprised, given you put your cards on the table, so to speak.

lucanone

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I never said leave it?

As a buyer, you always need to be wary. He did pass on the offer, but as you found out it wasn't completely dismissed, the vendor was 'considering it' as he told you. It's not completely contradictory, if the EA had told you that the vendor was 'considering it' you would be brimming with confidence that you would get it at the price offered. He twisted the truth to benefit his client and for you not to get your hopes up. Don't forget, you were the one that contacted the EA as he didn't get back to you in a timely manner, (while the vendor was considering it and hadn't given a final answer) you just wouldn't wait and acted like an eager buyer. I'm not surprised that the EA acted as he did, given you showed how interested you were. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm certainly not surprised, given you put your cards on the table, so to speak.

I'll simplify the situation down here. Twisting the truth (telling lies)
Economical with the truth
Extort money from people

Is this acceptable in your book, because you claim that anyone would do the above if they were in the position to do so and opportunity arose.

I wouldn't personally. Do you think that's alright?

As for my own personnel situation. The fact I came on here looking for advice would suggest I am naive in buying property as I stated from the off I am a first time buyer.

Does that make it right to tell lies and act in an unprofessional manner?

borderlinemeath

lucanone wrote: »

I'll simplify the situation down here. Twisting the truth (telling lies)
Economical with the truth
Extort money from people

Is this acceptable in your book, because you claim that anyone would do the above if they were in the position to do so and opportunity arose.

I wouldn't personally. Do you think that's alright?

As for my own personnel situation. The fact I came on here looking for advice would suggest I am naive in buying property as I stated from the off I am a first time buyer.

Does that make it right to tell lies and act in an unprofessional manner?

I never said it was acceptable, but I recognise it goes on in ALL sales professions. It's the same as buying a car, just a house is on a much larger scale. You are always warned to 'bring a mechanic' or 'get an AA report' because it's assumed that there's going to be exaggerations as to the condition of the car.
I'm only using a car as an example as it's a considerable purchase that you don't make on a whim, and on a rare enough occasion, yet everybody is aware of the risks. IMO it's the same with EAs, they're the same suit, just selling different wares, yet you seem shocked that they're doing everything in their power to get the most money for their client -> commission.

Markx

Several estate agents that I have dealt with possess a number of the characteristics commonly associated with sociopaths.

That said I did have a chat with an EA during the week at a viewing who seemed like a very nice chap.

Unfortunately there is no way to prove or disprove anything they tell you. The only way to preserve your own sanity appers to be to decide your limit for an individual property before you start bidding and let them do their worst. When the bidding passes your limit, move on.....

Markx

borderlinemeath wrote: »

It's the same as buying a car, just a house is on a much larger scale.

It is absolutely not the same as buying a car. Any standardised car will have a well-known and determinable value due to a large number of almost identical substitutes widely available on the market.

The price of a 09 Ford Focus will not vary widely within the space of a year due to (perceived) demand, whereas the price of an individual house could. The behavioural patterns of car dealers cannot make the price of cars change significantly. The behaviour of a group of estate agents in a particular area can.

lucanone

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I never said it was acceptable, but I recognise it goes on in ALL sales professions. It's the same as buying a car, just a house is on a much larger scale. You are always warned to 'bring a mechanic' or 'get an AA report' because it's assumed that there's going to be exaggerations as to the condition of the car.
I'm only using a car as an example as it's a considerable purchase that you don't make on a whim, and on a rare enough occasion, yet everybody is aware of the risks. IMO it's the same with EAs, they're the same suit, just selling different wares, yet you seem shocked that they're doing everything in their power to get the most money for their client -> commission.

Well I am glad you agree with me that it's not acceptable.

I think the general consensus is there needs to be more regulation and transparency.

I am aware that people differ and that some dishonest people will try any trick to pull the wool over your eyes.

That said the property bubble was a massive contributor to the economic problems this country suffered and will continue to suffer for some time to come. Therefore it would make sense to put regulations in place to stop cowboys like the individual I mentioned having further input that may cause damage.

I now know what I'm dealing now with so I will be well prepared in future.

borderlinemeath

Markx wrote: »

It is absolutely not the same as buying a car. Any standardised car will have a well-known and determinable value due to a large number of almost identical substitutes widely available on the market.

The price of a 09 Ford Focus will not vary widely within the space of a year due to (perceived) demand, whereas the price of an individual house could. The behavioural patterns of car dealers cannot make the price of cars change significantly. The behaviour of a group of estate agents in a particular area can.

Did you read my post? I even explained why I used the car comparison - it's not about the price, my point in ALL my posts has been to show that ALL salespeople will employ the same tactics to obtain the best price. The car comparison was used because it's a rare enough purchase, it's something that the majority of people don't know a huge amount about and are advised to get a mechanic to check out the car rather than to assume that everything the salesperson says is the truth. The lack of truth from the EA being the problem with the OP from the start.

You're also suggesting that EAs are involved in price fixing the market. At the minute it's purely supply and demand, I doubt very much they're in cahoots, rather fighting tooth and nail to get the few houses that are coming on the market onto their books rather than their competitors.

the_syco

cerastes wrote: »

You're saying the EA claims no bids and sells it to a friend for a low value, right?

Correct. Although there may be a cash buyer, I doubt a cash buyer would've offered less than 10k below asking.

cerastes wrote: »

whats the last sentence mean?

At first I thought you were going to suggest, if the EA was claiming to getting no bids, get a friend of the seller to make an offer and see if they pass it on to the seller, thus knowing if the EA was being upfront.

The last sentence meant that the OP should goto the house they were looking at, and ask one of the next door neighbours how long was the house for sale, and if they (the neighbour) could pass on the OP's bid to the house owner, on the off chance that the neighbour kept in contact with the house owner.

It seems the OP has gotten the home owners number, however.

lucanone wrote: »

Extort money from people

On this, it's the EA's job to extort the maximum amount of money from the buyer. If I'm selling my house, I'd goto to the EA who has a track record of high priced sales; If I wanted honesty, I'd sell it myself.

lucanone

the_syco wrote: »

Correct. Although there may be a cash buyer, I doubt a cash buyer would've offered less than 10k below asking.


The last sentence meant that the OP should goto the house they were looking at, and ask one of the next door neighbours how long was the house for sale, and if they (the neighbour) could pass on the OP's bid to the house owner, on the off chance that the neighbour kept in contact with the house owner.

It seems the OP has gotten the home owners number, however.


On this, it's the EA's job to extort the maximum amount of money from the buyer. If I'm selling my house, I'd goto to the EA who has a track record of high priced sales; If I wanted honesty, I'd sell it myself.

Well we will have to differ on that.

Extort: to obtain (something) by force, threats, or other unfair means.

If I make an offer on a property I'd expect the EA to convey it to vendor. Accept or decline. If it's declined up the offer or walk away. That's fine

I don't expect the EA to lie and be dishonest. The vendor in my circumstance could be equally as annoyed as me. Could be looking to sell now but has lost me, the interested party due to being told lies. He may not sell the property for weeks or months as a result of this.

Just for the record I have spoken to vendor who was surprised that this has happened and not too pleased.

Guess there is honest people out there.

He is currently considering my offer.

iguana

At least you got to see the house. I've been trying to arrange to see a house for weeks and the agent keeps cancelling viewings on the day. This morning he had his secretary call me 20 minutes before the viewing to cancel on me. I was on my way to the house with my 1 year old which isn't the easiest thing to get done to a schedule. To top it off the last time we talked the EA asked me if I was a serious buyer as he deals with a lot of time wasters. All he does is waste my time.

Part of me wants to tell him to f off but the house seems to tick most of my boxes and I'd like to see it.

Marchbride

iguana wrote: »

At least you got to see the house. I've been trying to arrange to see a house for weeks and the agent keeps cancelling viewings on the day. This morning he had his secretary call me 20 minutes before the viewing to cancel on me. I was on my way to the house with my 1 year old which isn't the easiest thing to get done to a schedule. To top it off the last time we talked the EA asked me if I was a serious buyer as he deals with a lot of time wasters. All he does is waste my time.

Part of me wants to tell him to f off but the house seems to tick most of my boxes and I'd like to see it.

Oh that is terrible bad form iguana!!
Would you call to the vendors home yourself?? Let them know you can't get clear communication with EA and that you're interested but he's behaviour is turning you off the house?

caew

We've decided to contact some vendors directly ourselves to see what the story is. A few things EAs have said to us just don't add up.

I don't think we have anything to lose at this stage. We are going to recount our dealings with the EA and ask them if this is still the position.

cerastes

as there is no regulation, is there even a code of conduct.

If a seller found out an EA hadn't passed on offers by being contacted by a buyer, how obligated would they be to honour any contract signed with said EA if the EA had broken the contract (presumably its written into any agreement to pass on all offers without delay and if it isn't included why wouldnt a seller insist on adding that?) by not passing on offers.

The_Morrigan

cerastes wrote: »

as there is no regulation, is there even a code of conduct.

If a seller found out an EA hadn't passed on offers by being contacted by a buyer, how obligated would they be to honour any contract signed with said EA if the EA had broken the contract (presumably its written into any agreement to pass on all offers without delay and if it isn't included why wouldnt a seller insist on adding that?) by not passing on offers.

....there is.

http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/index-en

Report any dealings to the PSR that you believe to be contentious and worthy of a complaint.

cerastes

The_Morrigan wrote: »

....there is.

http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/index-en

Report any dealings to the PSR that you believe to be contentious and worthy of a complaint.

I thought it was self regulated,
news to me,
I still think it could mean an EA could circumvent rules and relies on the buyer or seller finding out about offers not passed on.
offers should be a legal form with receipt, and require to be accepted or declined only by the seller after they see it.