Family's view of your life abroad

iusedtoknow

So i've been gone from Ireland 8 years, 6.5 of them spent in Spain, the rest here in the US. I have no bitterness about Ireland, I left just before the big crash but I do feel pretty alienated from it whenever I go back - my home town has changed a lot, and so many of my friends have gone, it's nice to head back every so often, but it feels less and less like "home".

I've been getting some attitude from family and friends that is really starting to get to me. It's as if they think I'm playing around and not partaking in "real life", whatever that may be

I moved to Barcelona for a girl, I had an OK job, but was definitely a "real" office job. We got married. I would have been happy to stay in Barcelona long term, but was made redundant in the spanish crash so we moved to Madrid for a better job, which eventually got me to where I am today in San Francisco.

However, my sister outright said that I've been "moving around looking for the next best thing" and that "it's all well and good travelling around, but when are you going to get in with real life?". She has a pretty good job in Dublin, nice house with the 2 kids yada yada.

I've been making some pretty pragmatic decisions for my career as well as ensuring that my wife's one is taken care of as well (she's a doctor) and am at a point in my career where my company is sponsoring visas/greencards and paying moving expenses, not just "playing around" with life abroad, but starting to settle into life here.

Has anyone else come across this attitude from friends/family? As if we're playing around abroad.

murphaph

Sounds like jealousy to me. Haven't had any of that from my family but know what you mean about home feeling less like home each time.

okiss

I think the reason you are getting the comment from family and friends in Ireland are due to the following.

Your sister could see you living abroad long term so you won't be around as you parents get older and may need more help. I know in some families brothers/sisters expect one person to mind there elderly parents and don't like when this does not happen. Perhaps your sister/family don't want this to impact on there lives.
Your friends might think you have a wonderful life abroad when they lack job security/lack money ect. The reality is just because your living abroad you still have to work to pay the bills.

You may have left Ireland due to your wife, your long term prospects and for work reasons. Since then you have made the best of each situation that you found yourself in. At the moment you are doing your best to sort things out long term for both yourself and your wife. You are working on getting visa ect but you may not want to tell family/friends to much until you know long term were you stand.
I would remember that long term you have to live your own life and not a life to suit your family and friends. Perhaps in the next few years your family/friends could visit you in the Us.

seachto7

What does your sister define as "real life" or the "real world". You're in San Francisco! One of the top cities in the US to live in, what could be wrong with that?

You sound like you got really lucky too. Moved before the crash to Spain for a girl, got married, moved to California.

Maybe people are jealous that things have worked out for you?

You live your life for you, not for anyone else in your family.

I mean, it's not like you're arsing around San Fran....

iusedtoknow

In fairness, i do a lot of arsing around- there is a lot of good food here and things to do

I think because all she sees of my life is stuff I put on Facebook, photos of our road trips/day trips etc. However whenever I try to FaceTime etc, she's always too busy with the kids or too tired to chat. So I've given up

I think her idea of "real life" is a mortgage you can barely afford, a job that runs you ragged and no time to enjoy things

Maybe you're right..it could be a case of misery loving company.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Most of my family are supportive. I'm happier here than I was at home and I have a job and can support myself. (I am still single though, but no guarantee I wouldn;t be single in Ireland).

I get the occasional question like "is that your home now?" or "when are you planning to come home?" to which I usually respond with questions, "well, what would I come back to Ireland to?" Why leave a job and a city you're happy in simple to move back to the place of your birth with no guarantee of anything?

munchkin_utd

to the OP, I think your summary there is pretty spot on.
If you looked at my facebook you would think that I was permanently on the beer/ travelling about (and thats despite having 2 kids) but the thing is that abroad theres more of an outdoor life and more exotic looking places (and healthier attitude to alcohol) than in Ireland so it can leave the impression that you are permanently having the craic, when its often really only taking advantage in the evenings or weekends of the nice weather or whatnot.

It's mostly due to ignorance tinged with jealousy, IMO. Some people just have it in their heads that 'real life' means a semi-detached house with huge mortgage, long hellish commute to a job you hate in a soulless office and endless trips to DIY shops on Saturdays to buy more crap for your semi-detached house. They can't comprehend that other people might have a different lifestyle and that it doesn't make them lazy wasters.

I spent some time living in Spain where I taught kids for a few hours every day and did freelance translation the rest of the time, which meant loads of time off during the day to go to the beach or the park, a lie-in every single morning and leisurely walks down to the market for fresh fruit/veg/bread for lunch. Most nights after work I'd head to one of the gorgeous plazas to meet friends for a drink and some tapas. I had endless 'life of Riley' comments from people who came to visit, as if I was on a permanent holiday. Why couldn't that be 'real life'? Yes, it was mostly fantastic but far from life of Riley. The kids I taught could be totally uncontrollable (nerves would be frazzled after 2-3 hours), my translation work was sporadic so I either had loads of work or none, I often had to stay up all night working when things were busy and of course everything I did had to be through Spanish, from sorting out problems with the flat to talking to students' parents. All in all I found it way better than being in the UK or Ireland but most of the people saying I was on a permanent holiday wouldn't have lasted a bloody week.

Just ignore it is the advice I have. If people want to believe that living abroad equals messing around and not living 'real life', let them.

keithclancy

iusedtoknow wrote: »

I've been making some pretty pragmatic decisions for my career as well as ensuring that my wife's one is taken care of as well (she's a doctor) and am at a point in my career where my company is sponsoring visas/greencards and paying moving expenses, not just "playing around" with life abroad, but starting to settle into life here.

Has anyone else come across this attitude from friends/family? As if we're playing around abroad.

Everyone has their own perception of what 'normal' is.
Hers is whatever situation she has created for herself, yours is the situation you have created for yourself.

What exactly makes one more correct than the other ?

If you lived your life based on what other people thought you should do, you'd still be at home with mammy :P (which happens to some people)

silja

It can also have to do with what age you were when you left... family forget you "grow up", that you are not the young, just-out-of-college kid anymore they saw of at the airport that first time, that you are not "chasing after some girl" anymore. They forget you are a sought after professional with a wife in a god profession.

jester77

I'm gone 13 or 14 years, don't think my family think much about it. A lot of my uncles and aunts emigrated to the UK and US during the 70's/80's and are still there. My mum lived in the US for a number of years before moving back. It's just a normal part of family life for the typical Irish family.

murphaph

jester77 wrote: »

I'm gone 13 or 14 years, don't think my family think much about it. A lot of my uncles and aunts emigrated to the UK and US during the 70's/80's and are still there. My mum lived in the US for a number of years before moving back. It's just a normal part of family life for the typical Irish family.

Have you been in Germany the whole time Jester? (just curious)

iusedtoknow

silja wrote: »

It can also have to do with what age you were when you left... family forget you "grow up", that you are not the young, just-out-of-college kid anymore they saw of at the airport that first time, that you are not "chasing after some girl" anymore. They forget you are a sought after professional with a wife in a god profession.

That is actually a really good point that I didn't think about. I finished college and was gone the next January. Perhaps to them I'm always the 23 year old that was forever broke and slightly tipsy.

As for a god profession, not quite

BradClark

Imo family should mind their own business. They are living their own lives and you have a right to live yours as well.

December2012

It's probably the fact she has kids and you don't.

Some people cannot comprehend how somebody could consider themselves a grown up without having kids.

If you FaceTime her, it seems like the main issue to overcome would be time difference - the time I presume she's free (early morning) is middle of the night for you.

jester77

murphaph wrote: »

Have you been in Germany the whole time Jester? (just curious)

Was over and back alot since the late 90's for a few months here and there, full time here just before the world cup in Japan.

wuffly

When you live away people tend to think its a permanent holiday. When we immigrated we didn't go on hols for three years, spending what we had getting set up and going home on our time off. Cutting way back on this from now on, went back for three weddings last year. No regrets but we got to speak to the couple for 20mins max, as much as we want to be there we can't keep justifying the cost. I suppose we left with a 3 year plan, travel for a year work for two and come home,we are into year three of the work now and not likely to move home any time soon. I just cant get my kind of job or this kind of salary so what to do? My hubby's old boss calls him twice a year to ask if he is finished with the 'safari' yet. My parents are getting old and i have one brother living at home and he has said he doesnt know what he will do if/when they start to need more care. He's farming so he can't really change much about his work. Hope to be back home to help before this is an issue. I miss him and vice versa he's one of my best friends but he is happy out at home and he is happy that I am doing what his best for me. Anyone that isnt happy for you is probably reflecting their own issues on you. Plus this irish thing about not being a grown up until you are on the property ladder(not sure if the OP is). As long as your not living paycheck to paycheck, thats as grown up as you need to be really?! Life is what you make it. Maybe your sis is under a lot of pressure with the mortgage etc... its hard on her but not your fault.

iusedtoknow

wuffly wrote: »

When you live away people tend to think its a permanent holiday.

This one sentence sums the whole thing up. I lived in Barcelona for years (near the sagrada familia) where my wife is from, that is her "home town", the butchers and the fishmongers all still know her.

However, the first time my parents came over to visit after we had got settled, my mum remarked "i didn't realize people worked this hard in Spain". This was me leaving home at 7am to the office and my wife(the GF) being at college lectures/studying across town till 9pm

Anyway - as for your situation, i think it is pretty similar to my own. At the moment, there is no real need for me to move back, my parents are pretty hale and hearty, and since retiring, my dad seems to have a bit of a new lease on life. But I know it will come up eventually, but until then, we're just going to have to live our own lives.

InTheTrees

I've noticed that when the weather is nicer at home then it is where I am they're all like "pfft, why'd you bother leaving now then huh?".

denhaagenite

I don't think they like the fact that the ball and chain's pay packet comes from Germany .

I'll second the "permanent holiday" vibe, they can't believe when we go to visit other countries, sure why would we bother when we've beautiful Ireland to go back to? I do like visiting, but it is exhausting having to travel from Dublin to Tipp to Cork to wherever else constantly sleeping on air mattresses and couches so we're always glad to get home to NL. And don't talk to me about the weddings!! If we get a couple of hours to enjoy the things I do miss, like certain restaurants or just being out in the fresh air we're very lucky. I do love and miss my family and friends but there are very few who would put themselves out too much for us when we're back. There's always the air of begrudgery (which I have to admit I have been guilty of at times) that can get a bit irritating, I swear it's part of the Irish condition.

I think people just don't understand how hard it is to live abroad. Some of us have chosen it but some of us just end up away by accident. There's a new culture and language to navigate, everything is 10 times harder. The trade off is so worth it, but all people see is the nice pictures on Facebook- you're hardly going to post about the backdated UPC bill that you got because you didn't study the contract hard enough or the helplessness you feel when a family member is ill. I love living here, I feel safe out any time of the day or night and I know that when I have children they'll grow up in a far more equal society than Ireland but it's really hitting me since the nieces and nephews started coming along.

wuffly

I know exactly what you mean going from pillar to post to see people and coming back wrecked. I love going home but its not a holiday.

Different work ethic here, our guests are usually surprised(different from where i had worked previously anyway....) Working 8-6 plus, plus and always on the blackberry, i was asked to make sure i checked it on my wedding day, 'but it was ok if didn't want to bring my laptop.....' Yep its permanent holiday...not so much.

denhaagenite

wuffly wrote: »

Working 8-6 plus, plus and always on the blackberry, i was asked to make sure i checked it on my wedding day, 'but it was ok if didn't want to bring my laptop.....' Yep its permanent holiday...not so much.

Eek!! Where are you?? I think you're doing it wrong

iusedtoknow

denhaagenite wrote: »

Eek!! Where are you?? I think you're doing it wrong

agreed…I work in IT in the US, and downtime is downtime

can't imagine that is legal in Europe

wuffly

Live in Dubai, tax free isn't all its cracked up to be! I don't know many people here that don't work those kind of hours. So looking forward to my 45 calender days of maternity leave whenever i get myself knocked up!

denhaagenite

wuffly wrote: »

Live in Dubai, tax free isn't all its cracked up to be! I don't know many people here that don't work those kind of hours. So looking forward to my 45 calender days of maternity leave whenever i get myself knocked up!

You poor thing . Might be worth looking into whether public holidays get cancelled if you take your maternity leave when they occur, if they're not try timing things to happen when the most public holidays are... Can't think of anything else. That's horrific.

wuffly

Public hols during any leave are lost, although some companies don't stick to this. The majority of public hols are based on moon sightings by the official moon sighting committee so you can only roughly guess when they will be. I am serious! Had a fair idea what we were signing up for so will stay as long as it works for us, can't see myself going back to work 45 days after having a kid.

munchkin_utd

wuffly wrote: »

Live in Dubai, tax free isn't all its cracked up to be! I don't know many people here that don't work those kind of hours. So looking forward to my 45 calender days of maternity leave whenever i get myself knocked up!

Well with 2 kids, 2 childcare bills and a couple of euro shy of half my wage going to the german government/ medical system/ pensioners, i'd gladly take tax free.

which actually is another twisted irish view of abroad (compared to home)

They think that the good roads, medical, public transport etc gets funded abroad by magic and that they should have similar for their "high taxes" in Ireland!!!

They think that they are paying high taxes in Ireland, which is laughable. On the average industrial wage of 32k a year you have 500 a month more in your pocket in Ireland than Germany just as an example after all statatuory taxes and deductions!!!!
And they want to pay less tax and have the same services as a country which taxes you to the hilt, which is laughable.
And they think that free healthcare is a right, as is free medicine, and the system should be as good as in other countries where you pay (as a couple on a middling wage) over a grand a month in medical insurance, which is hilarous.

The grass is always greener on the other side, but till you move abroad you dont realise how bloody green the grass is in Ireland.
In many ways Ireland is a paradise. Maybe a fools paradise but the combination of low taxes and high services is like a miracle.
(of course its funded by debt that future generations will have to deal with, but thats what Irish politicans do!)

jester77

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Well with 2 kids, 2 childcare bills and a couple of euro shy of half my wage going to the german government/ medical system/ pensioners, i'd gladly take tax free.

which actually is another twisted irish view of abroad (compared to home)

They think that the good roads, medical, public transport etc gets funded abroad by magic and that they should have similar for their "high taxes" in Ireland!!!

They think that they are paying high taxes in Ireland, which is laughable. On the average industrial wage of 32k a year you have 500 a month more in your pocket in Ireland than Germany just as an example after all statatuory taxes and deductions!!!!
And they want to pay less tax and have the same services as a country which taxes you to the hilt, which is laughable.
And they think that free healthcare is a right, as is free medicine, and the system should be as good as in other countries where you pay (as a couple on a middling wage) over a grand a month in medical insurance, which is hilarous.

The grass is always greener on the other side, but till you move abroad you dont realise how bloody green the grass is in Ireland.
In many ways Ireland is a paradise. Maybe a fools paradise but the combination of low taxes and high services is like a miracle.
(of course its funded by debt that future generations will have to deal with, but thats what Irish politicans do!)

So true, everyone that comes and visits me, returns home and exclaims how cheap it is in Germany. Yeah, beer and a meal out might be cheaper which is all that they experience but that is where it ends. House prices and rent are higher (try finding a suitable family house here for under 450k or a place to rent for under 1300 a month), electricity costs 28-30c kWh compare to 14-15c in Ireland, petrol costs more, water costs more, heating costs more, property tax, phone charges and so on. The only thing that is cheaper is groceries and not by much.

wuffly

Not complaining but its not all sunshine and roses. You get what you pay for and if you pay nothing you get nothing.

denhaagenite

Ain't that the truth. Was recently in the Marks and Spencers in Amsterdam and was shocked to realise that the prices there are no different to the "cheapo" grocery shop that I normally go to- imagine M&S prices being normal!!

But sure don't they have the Universal Social Charge blablablablarecessionblablagermanystakingallourmoneyblablabla :pac:

murphaph

jester77 wrote: »

So true, everyone that comes and visits me, returns home and exclaims how cheap it is in Germany. Yeah, beer and a meal out might be cheaper which is all that they experience but that is where it ends. House prices and rent are higher (try finding a suitable family house here for under 450k or a place to rent for under 1300 a month), electricity costs 28-30c kWh compare to 14-15c in Ireland, petrol costs more, water costs more, heating costs more, property tax, phone charges and so on. The only thing that is cheaper is groceries and not by much.

Childcare is significantly cheaper in Berlin than Ireland (though the rules differ by Bundesland). We pay €346 a month for 7-9 hours care per day for our son, which drops each year by a few Euro (the theory being that babies are more labour intensive for the Kindergarten) until he turns 3, at which point we will pay a whopping €38 a month until he enters school. After school care is also very cheap here.

Insurance of all kinds is also cheaper in Germany, presumably because so many Germans insure themselves for all sorts of things that almost never happen.

House prices are higher but interest rates are much lower and can be fixed for very long periods. Irish people would not believe you can fix at ~3% for 20 years!

On the whole I feel better about life in Germany. The health insurance is expensive but the level or care is in a different league to Ireland. Plenty of specialists in the neighbourhood (in a German city if you have a skin complaint you go straight to a dermatologist, not to a GP who refers you to a specialist in a hospital. Waiting lists are basically unheard of here-if you need a hip replacement you get one, not 2 years later). In Ireland to achieve that level of care you must have VHI or similar and not just Plan A.

The first time I went to my GP in Germany (for a sore back) I was amazed. They took blood and urine and tested on the spot. The blood showed some signs for concern so more detailed tests were ordered at the lab. They did a 12 lead ECG to check for heart irregularities and a load of other tests, just to get a baseline on your general health.

Public transport is also significantly cheaper in any German city than in say Dublin, and significantly better at the same time. A monthly pass for use 24 hours a day in Berlin (whole Bundesland) costs me €60.17 a month.