Calves to Replacements?

Rabbit1989

Well folks,

The time has come to commence farming myself and get my own herd number separate from dads.

I am strongly considering buying 10 AA x Brit Freisin heifer calves as they will be polled, hardy and have milk. Does anyone know a dairy farmer who will have them for me?

I then want to breed these with an AI shorthorn bull at 15+ months (Teagasc approved) either to SBU or Chapelton Wildfire as he is Polled.

I wish to keep every heifer calf born which will be a "Blue Grey" and use these as the base of my herd going forward. Great animals in my opinion, especially in the hills of Wicklow!

Has anyone any advice for me?

Regards,

Mic

bbam

Well I've said this before.
Your starting off with a serious compromise using AAx cows.

Small framed AA cows will in most cases yield small poorly coloured calves which will attain no where near top prices in the mart.

If I were starting into suckling I'd be thinking less cows but decent frames.

Maybe buying semintal ch cross heifers would be a better option.

hugo29

i am with BBAM on this one

SIMX cross heifers or even a HERX (red only) with a view to eventually crossing back to a Terminal CH bull

Rabbit1989

Lads thanks for the replies and I appreciate your inputs.

I have one Blue Grey Cow at home, must be nearly 700kgs and produced a €950 LM red weanling at 8 months of age, he was a beaut.

You see I only want a cheap entry with €200 heifer calves and then hit them with real good SH AI genetics, I reckon those calves will be phenomenal or am I wrong?

Reggie.

Rabbit1989 wrote: »

Lads thanks for the replies and I appreciate your inputs.

I have one Blue Grey Cow at home, must be nearly 700kgs and produced a €950 LM red weanling at 8 months of age, he was a beaut.

You see I only want a cheap entry with €200 heifer calves and then hit them with real good SH AI genetics, I reckon those calves will be phenomenal or am I wrong?

You might want to budget a bit more for the AA as the cost of them are up at the minute at around 250 or even 300 or more depending where you buy them. The price may drop in a few weeks tho when calving gets into full swing

Rabbit1989

Sound Reggie, As it happens I have a price locked in with a lad I went to school with, Brit Freis dairy herd etc!

bbam

Others here know much more than I about genetics and outcomes.

But no matter what AI you hit an AAx cow with she is still just that. Second generation is a different story, but it's a long wait for profit.

I'd be very reluctant to have a herd of AAx cows just because they are cheap to get into. You'd want to be very sure what AA straws your friend is using as recently there have been increasing numbers of runts of AAx stock produced, very hard to get into any size at all.

Rabbit1989

http://www.munsterai.ie/siredata.php?id=AYR&type=beef

This is the bull selected, I am very happy with the look of him and his results on ICBF.

What do you think?

towzer2010

bbam wrote: »

Others here know much more than I about genetics and outcomes.

But no matter what AI you hit an AAx cow with she is still just that. Second generation is a different story, but it's a long wait for profit.

I'd be very reluctant to have a herd of AAx cows just because they are cheap to get into. You'd want to be very sure what AA straws your friend is using as recently there have been increasing numbers of runts of AAx stock produced, very hard to get into any size at all.

bbam I don't agree with you about AA. There are some very good AA bulls available at the moment with super growth rates. I have a mix of cows but the few AA cows I have produce a good calf every year without fail and are easy kept. And I have shorthorn cows which I put in calf to maternal bulls (usually lm) to try to breed replacements.

OP I think if you can get good AA calves as foundation stock it could be a runner. AYR looks like a good bull imo.

Or you could go to the special in calf heifer sales and buy sim x bb in calfs for €2000 each.....

bbam

towzer2010 wrote: »

bbam I don't agree with you about AA. There are some very good AA bulls available at the moment with super growth rates. I have a mix of cows but the few AA cows I have produce a good calf every year without fail and are easy kept. And I have shorthorn cows which I put in calf to maternal bulls (usually lm) to try to breed replacements.

OP I think if you can get good AA calves as foundation stock it could be a runner. AYR looks like a good bull imo.

Or you could go to the special in calf heifer sales and buy sim x bb in calfs for €2000 each.....

In fairness that's what I said.
There are SOME good AA bulls being used.
But increasingly there seems to be more and more or the less desirable straws being used.
OP seems well versed on his plan and fair play, I was just suggesting to be careful about the initial breeding or the €200 would be less of a bargain that he thinks.

hugo29

my only concern with AAXFR is the colour that they bring, but i suppose it all depends on the future terminal sire and also OP is talking about breeding SH again to get future heifers so how much of the AA will be left at that stage

Bizzum

We have had a few cows with AA in them. It's a grand bonus to find a calf with no horns when you're goin dehorning, and the hardiness is nice as is the easy fleshing. There it ends for me. I think it can be a comprimise on calf quality. I like the cow to carry a bit of muscle in her genes.
If OP was going breeding up from this base I'd suspect he could breed a good cow maybe bringing Lim into the mix, but it's a long road. Best of luck no matter what route you choose!

freedominacup

I know nothing about sucklers but why is no one recommending pedigree heifers?

Zr105

freedominacup wrote: »

I know nothing about sucklers but why is no one recommending pedigree heifers?

Cost... Plain and simple,

And there's no real benefit unless your going to stay straight pedigree and try sell as ped heifers or bulls... Also with certain breeds it can be hard to find ped's that still have milk in them

moy83

Rabbit1989 wrote: »

Well folks,

The time has come to commence farming myself and get my own herd number separate from dads.

I am strongly considering buying 10 AA x Brit Freisin heifer calves as they will be polled, hardy and have milk. Does anyone know a dairy farmer who will have them for me?

I then want to breed these with an AI shorthorn bull at 15+ months (Teagasc approved) either to SBU or Chapelton Wildfire as he is Polled.

I wish to keep every heifer calf born which will be a "Blue Grey" and use these as the base of my herd going forward. Great animals in my opinion, especially in the hills of Wicklow!

Has anyone any advice for me?

Regards,

Mic

I like your plan , those blue grey cows should be nice and hardy for the hill .
No doubt about it but you wont be getting €1000 for you weanlins , but maybe they wont cost as much to get there either . I see some fine suckler cows around me that have a bit of size and muscle to them but they are hoovering grass , silage , nuts , minerals and constantly need dosing if they are in wet or mountainy land . They wont rear much of a calf on the hill either without a "maameen " of dairy nuts .
Now the hardier cow will need dosing aswell but Id love to see a trial to see do the native breeds have a better resistance to fluke and the like .

With the talk of factories looking for smaller cuts of beef and exporting the E and U grade weanlins looking a bit too dear from ireland at the minute I would be wondering is there much point in everyone trying to produce the big mucsely calf ?

One thing I would look at if I was you would be aa or sh heifer weanlins as opposed to calves . They might work out cheaper than calves and you would be better able to see how good and strong they are turning out . AA calves from the dairy herd can be hit and miss as lads have said already .

Good luck starting out anyhow

Bodacious

Rabbit1989 wrote: »

Lads thanks for the replies and I appreciate your inputs.

I have one Blue Grey Cow at home, must be nearly 700kgs and produced a €950 LM red weanling at 8 months of age, he was a beaut.

You see I only want a cheap entry with €200 heifer calves and then hit them with real good SH AI genetics, I reckon those calves will be phenomenal or am I wrong?

hi rabbit,


best of luck with your plan, as lads have said the colour is against the AA X FR when crossed with terminal Char, you need the AA x LM carrying the recessive red gene to throw yellows


ive 2 blue greys as you hoping to get from 2nd generation cross.. great cows but again you will get that off colour with the Char so it'll be a lim all the way for them.. it all depends on if you plan to ai or use stockbull,,, ie char win all day long with most cows but your blue greys then need to be separated and given the best lim in the ai book.


get your AA X FR and introduce the biggest,best possible maternal lim bull the likes of OZS and id back those black lim x dams to have the whole package milk, size, hardiness and above all ability to throw yellows to charolais and also a good cross to a BB

Rabbit1989

Thanks a million,great advice!

I am going to do all AI as it will be little acreage and I want the best progeny.

I wish to keep my replacements polled, so would an AAxBF crossed with an AI LM still be polled or is the Angus too little in it?

Bizzum

Rabbit1989 wrote: »

I wish to keep my replacements polled, so would an AAxBF crossed with an AI LM still be polled or is the Angus too little in it?

I'd be confident you'd get polled calves. I've seen polled heifer calves with less AA in them.

towzer2010

Rabbit1989 wrote: »

Thanks a million,great advice!

I am going to do all AI as it will be little acreage and I want the best progeny.

I wish to keep my replacements polled, so would an AAxBF crossed with an AI LM still be polled or is the Angus too little in it?

Bizzum wrote: »

I'd be confident you'd get polled calves. I've seen polled heifer calves with less AA in them.

Agree with Bizzum but you'll probably have one or two with horns as well.

I'm surprised that more pedigree breeders aren't trying to breed polled bulls. I read an article about a French pedigree lim breeder that is breeding and selling all polled bulls. He said there was great demand for them.

Does anyone think there is a market in Ireland for polled bulls?

Rabbit1989

Surely there has to be a market for them.

I see Udel Herefords in Wexford I think have been polled since the early 80's.

I am starting to see Polled Bulls in AI brochures across all breeds, a few nice LM ones are Polled, saw a Charolais also etc

It makes perfect sense to me that it will catch on massively by 2020, it will be part time farmers using AI that will be the driving force.

Tag the calf and the forget about handling him, ideal situation!