Dog is very aggressive

ViveLaVie · 07-01-2014 4:15pm #1

My dog at home is very aggressive, to the point that he's tried to bite me and my sister before. He has also snarled and growled at us on occasion. He's fine the rest of the time but he seems to turn all of a sudden for no discernible reason. I wouldn't be home often so I realise he may not feel he knows me well enough.

However, he's growled at my Dad too once before even though Dad feeds him and walks him everyday. He's kept outside at all times and has a garden to run around in and plenty of food and water. He's well looked after. He kills rats and cats quite regularly too. He's mixed breed (not sure which ones, but definitely a Jack Russell in there somewhere). He's very small. He's aggressive with other dogs too.

I decided I'd go out to play with him a bit more to build the relationship and hopefully calm him down but then he growled at me the other day just after I rubbed him! It's getting to the point I don't want to go out and see him anymore. I was in shock and tbh a bit frightened when he snapped at me before. I suppose I wouldn't be that confident around animals.

He's about 8 years old. Any advice?

Tranceypoo · 07-01-2014 4:24pm

Has be been to the vets lately to rule out any underlying pain or injury?

ViveLaVie · 07-01-2014 4:25pm

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Has be been to the vets lately to rule out any underlying pain or injury?

No, but he's always been like this really. Even as a puppy he was constantly trying to bite and snap but we thought he'd grow out of it.

SingItOut · 07-01-2014 4:36pm

Does he seem nervous at all when he behaves like that? What methods of correction do you use when he behaves like that? Do you just walk away or correct him?

ViveLaVie · 07-01-2014 4:43pm

No not nervous, he seems angry. I suppose I don't correct him, I just walk away. My Dad would correct him with a tap on the nose, or maybe a stern voice. The time he tried to bite me I was telling him to get down as he was jumping all over a neighbour and he turned on me then.

SingItOut · 07-01-2014 5:26pm

He has probably learned that you'll just walk away every time he growls or snaps. I wouldn't do what your dad is doing as that could escalate the problem. Next time he growls don't walk away and say no in a stern (not shouting) voice and, assuming he's an indoor dog, if you can remove him from the room to another by himself for a few minutes. If he jumps on the furniture without permission put him down on the ground, you can loop a leash around his neck to gently coax him down. Give him a treat every time he does as he is told. As he is 8 years old it is going to be a long process to turn him around but it can be done, you may need to enlist the help of a behaviorist.

ViveLaVie · 07-01-2014 5:34pm

SingItOut wrote: »

He has probably learned that you'll just walk away every time he growls or snaps. I wouldn't do what your dad is doing as that could escalate the problem. Next time he growls don't walk away and say no in a stern (not shouting) voice and, assuming he's an indoor dog, if you can remove him from the room to another by himself for a few minutes. If he jumps on the furniture without permission put him down on the ground, you can loop a leash around his neck to gently coax him down. Give him a treat every time he does as he is told. As he is 8 years old it is going to be a long process to turn him around but it can be done, you may need to enlist the help of a behaviorist.

He's an outdoor dog unfortunately. Yeah I don't get aggressive with him back because I'm concerned he could get worse. It's going to be hard to physically touch him when he's like this - he could actually bite me like.

DBB · 07-01-2014 5:35pm

SingItOut wrote: »

assuming he's an indoor dog, if you can remove him from the room to another by himself for a few minutes.

It's not really appropriate to do this when the dog is being as aggressive as this dog is, certainly not as on its own. In any case, this dog lives outside.
OP, this is not really one that can be dealt with here. If you, or really your dad, want to deal with this, then you would be best advised to get a qualified behaviourist to help, but do bear in mind that everyone needs to be on board with this: if your dad is happy enough with the status quo, and let's face it, if the dog is living outside it's unlikely your dad has to deal with this problem head on too often. Maybe it works for your dad as it is, and he's not going to be inclined to change things after all this time?
Aggression is not one to be dealt with on a chat forum, in any case. There are way too many factors to consider, so be careful about the advice you take by any medium unless it's from a specialist who's qualified to give out appropriate advice on aggression.

SingItOut · 07-01-2014 6:38pm

I suggested The loop leash as a safer method than using ones hands, didn't know until the OP said the dog was outdoors. I studied and have qualifications in dog behaviour and going from experience with aggressive dogs, and as DBB said, this is something that needs a professional specialist brought in so they can see first hand the problems that are not all visible on a forum. It will most definetly take a few visits to establish a solution or aid. And as others will tell you, a behaviourist who uses positive re-enforcement is generally more effective. Good luck with him as it's going to take the whole family to turn him around

ViveLaVie · 07-01-2014 6:42pm

SingItOut wrote: »

I studied and have qualifications in dog behaviour and going from experience with aggressive dogs, and as DBB said, this is something that needs a professional specialist brought in so they can see first hand the problems that are not all visible on a forum. And as others will tell you, a behaviourist who uses positive re-enforcement is your best bet. Good luck with him!

I don't think my Dad will agree to having a behaviourist brought in.

Could you shed some light as to some of the reasons why dogs sometimes behave this way?

SingItOut · 07-01-2014 6:52pm

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I don't think my Dad will agree to having a behaviourist brought in. Could you shed some light as to some of the reasons why dogs sometimes behave this way?

I wouldn't recommend training classes as you said he is dog aggressive and he wouldn't settle In a class. The reasons are endless it can be put down to the dogs experiences as a puppy, how much social interaction they were given, how much they were let away with eg nipping, growling to get their own way, it can also be down to genetics. Terriers by nature are feisty little things (I have one myself) but that's not to say they all are, as I said above it can be due to its heritage and how the breeders treated it before rehoming if that makes sense. As someone said above it could be due to a medical condition but as he is 8 years old this is unlikely, I'd still get him checked over by the vets if possible as he's into his senior years now.

maggiepip · 07-01-2014 7:05pm

He could have some type of pain issue that would be a reason for aggression so a vet trip should be organised. If the dog spends all his time outdoors hes probably not getting much social interaction - isolation leads to boredom, loneliness and frustration all huge causes of behavioural problems.

fatmammycat · 07-01-2014 8:01pm

There's a couple of things that jump out though, how much interaction does this dog get with people if he's an outside dog? Jumping up on the neighbour sounds like excitement, how did you tell him to get down? Did you grab him? pull at his collar? Could be redirected energy/frustration. Your dad shouldn't really be tapping him on the nose, that's sure fired way to get bitten in my house. What commands does the dog know? What was the dog doing when you were stroking him? How was his body language? Was his growl playful or warning you to leave him alone? You should never get aggressive back with an aggessive dog, especially if you've no idea what the cause is, you're right, you could make the situation worse and get bitten. Rather try find the underlyng cause, what sparks the behaviour. I guarantee there are signs.
( growling, by the way is a good sign in a way, it's a language, he's telling you he is unhappy- truly aggressive dogs often just bite without warning).

borderlinemeath · 07-01-2014 8:08pm

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I don't think my Dad will agree to having a behaviourist brought in. Could you shed some light as to some of the reasons why dogs sometimes behave this way?

There's no way to answer the question without seeing the dog in situ, in his own home environment and to see first hand what is triggering the dogs aggression. It could be fear, it could be resource guarding (territory, food, people), it could have been some small unintentional trigger that has now become habitual. (ie the dog could have hurt his back and every move by a human towards his back might trigger the growl)

Until the source of aggression has been established then the remedy to recondition the behaviour cannot be identified. That is why the only way to get to the bottom of the problem is to get a qualified behaviourist to visit the home.

Karlitto · 08-01-2014 8:18am

Sorry to be "that guy",

Dogs are social animals, I do not understand why people get dogs and leave them outside all of the time, fine, leave them outside if they have another dog or several other dogs to go outside with.

You/ your father or whoever decided to get the dog should have done your research on getting a dog, clearly this research was not done, this is evident for a number of reasons,

a) Your Dad hits the dog, this is not advisable whatsoever, this can lead to aggression
b) You do not even know what breed the dog is
c) Your dog is left outside alone

Anyway, what you are looking for here is a definitive "this is the cause" answer to your question, but realistically, as it has been said already by several people, you need to speak to a behaviorist. Why is it that your Dad would not agree to seek professional help for the dog?

The aggression could have come from many areas such as:

a) Being hit
b) Being left alone in the yard all day
c) Not having much social interaction with both people and other dogs as a pup
d) Being "mollycoddled"
e) The dog could be in pain or sick
f) The dog could be afraid
g) The dog may see the back yard as his own territory since he is out there most of the time

And so on so on,

The bottom line is, you should seek professional advice from a dog behaviorist, if you are local to swords, go to the national dog training centre there and talk to one of the trainers (also, this will allow your dog to interact with many dogs while you are there)

And as a general note, Dogs are not just pets, they are companions, they are not fashion accessories and should be cared for in a loving manner, if your child is sick, what do you do? You go to the doctor, same goes for your dog.

falabo · 08-01-2014 9:33am

ViveLaVie wrote: »

He's kept outside at all times QUOTE]

HERE YOU GO

ViveLaVie · 08-01-2014 11:16am

Well unfortunately it's not up to me whether he's allowed in the house or not. My brother happens to have a serious medical condition and my Dad tries to keep the house as sterile as possible for him. Also I have friends who keep dogs outside all the time and don't have this issue. We can't introduce another dog now as he's too territorial.

Also my Dad spends most of the day every day in the garden with the dog, so no he is not alone all the time. Fair enough he shouldn't tap him on the nose but tbh I've heard varying reports of this off other people who have advised to do that for discipline. It's hard to know what to believe particularly considering the only person he behaves for is my Dad.

It's not possible to know his breed because the people we got him off didn't even know; they had no idea who the mother mated with.

I don't appreciate you accusing me of treating him like a fashion accessory either. I never have done.

Simply put, we don't have the money at the moment for a behaviourist.

ViveLaVie · 08-01-2014 11:17am

falabo wrote: »

ViveLaVie wrote: »

He's kept outside at all times QUOTE]

HERE YOU GO

He was kept inside as a puppy and was just the same behaviourally.

Nody · 08-01-2014 11:47am

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Well unfortunately it's not up to me whether he's allowed in the house or not. My brother happens to have a serious medical condition and my Dad tries to keep the house as sterile as possible for him. Also I have friends who keep dogs outside all the time and don't have this issue. We can't introduce another dog now as he's too territorial.

So why did your father get a dog in the first place then?

Also my Dad spends most of the day every day in the garden with the dog, so no he is not alone all the time. Fair enough he shouldn't tap him on the nose but tbh I've heard varying reports of this off other people who have advised to do that for discipline. It's hard to know what to believe particularly considering the only person he behaves for is my Dad.

Being around the dog does not equal quality time for the dog. Secondly your "other reports" are coming from uneducated fools (and that's being nice) who have no idea on actual scientific studies which has disproven that and other pain related methods for over 20 years along with alpha dog behaviour etc. It's about as up to date as claiming that women should not vote because they are not intelligent enough...

Simply put, we don't have the money at the moment for a behaviourist.

How would you handle a serious medical condition then? A vet bill can easily drop in over 500 EUR (and behavourists come in a lot cheaper then that) and of course if he ever bit someone and it lead to court case or need to pay someone's doctors bills...

I'm honestly baffled at the idea that you already rule out a behavourist with out even knowing how much one would cost (as you previously stated that your father would never allow one in the first place). If I was you I'd PM DBB (I know there are a few other here as well but I'm sorry to say I don't remember your board names of the top of my head

)with were you live (rather then posting it for all to see) and ask him for a recommendation in the area (they should come to your house because that's were things need to change and that way you avoid cowboys of the "oh dogs need to see you as alpha leader BS") and ask how much an initial consulting visit would be. I think you'd not only be surprised on the price but also how much suggestions of your behaviour that needs to change (and yes chances are 75%+ of the change is on you and your family, not the dog due to not reading the dog properly) from that single visit and how much of an impact it will have on your quality of life with the dog. Don't see it as yet another cost but rather as an investment of making your (and your family's) life better for years to come because that's what it is at the end of the day.

Karlitto · 08-01-2014 11:50am

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Well unfortunately it's not up to me whether he's allowed in the house or not. My brother happens to have a serious medical condition and my Dad tries to keep the house as sterile as possible for him. Also I have friends who keep dogs outside all the time and don't have this issue. We can't introduce another dog now as he's too territorial.

It is unfortunate alright that your brother has a medical condition, but the dog should not be a permanent resident of the back garden, is this medical condition new or did he have it before the dog came along?

Indeed, I am sure other people you know do leave their dogs in the back yard, but as I said, dogs are social, pack animals, not garden ornaments.

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Also my Dad spends most of the day every day in the garden with the dog, so no he is not alone all the time. Fair enough he shouldn't tap him on the nose but tbh I've heard varying reports of this off other people who have advised to do that for discipline. It's hard to know what to believe particularly considering the only person he behaves for is my Dad.

The fact that your Dad spends "most of the day, every day in the garden with the dog".... has nothing to do with it, he needs interaction with different people, not just one person. Infact, he should have had this
interaction and social exposure thoughout his whole life.

Of course there are varying reports on disciplining a dog, but any professional or person with decent knowledge of raising and training a dog will tell you that hitting it is a bad idea. It is not hard to know what to believe, get a professional behaviorist/trainer to come visit him, or you bring him to the behaviorist.

And of course he behaves for your Dad, he hits him! And he is the one who "spends all day in the garden" with him, he could be afraid of other people hitting him, hence why he is aggressive.

ViveLaVie wrote: »

It's not possible to know his breed because the people we got him off didn't even know; they had no idea who the mother mated with.

So, would I be right in saying you got him from a friend who's dog got humped in a park whilst in heat?

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I don't appreciate you accusing me of treating him like a fashion accessory either. I never have done.

I am sorry that you don't appreciate it, but several people have given you good advice here (mainly get a behaviorist, but no, you want a quick solution as if it were a quick DIY job like fixing a squeaky hinge on a door) Interpret it any way you want, fashion accessory or garden ornament, the truth is, you got a dog without doing any research on owning one, it is in the back yard all day long with no interaction with other dogs at all(which by the way, is more important than interaction with humans) and some interaction from your Dad. All of this spells out to me that you and your Dad are just irresponsible dog owners.

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Simply put, we don't have the money at the moment for a behaviorist.

You see, this is what I am talking about! You have no idea how much it would cost, nor have you explored any options. Like I said, the place in swords, it costs 5 euro to go in and let your dog interact with other dogs for the hour, it costs nothing to pick up a telephone and ask a behaviorist simple advice, infact, you would probably catch one of the guys in swords while your dog was there and ask him what he thinks, it would take two minutes and I guarantee he would not charge you for that. It is the ongoing training that would cost.

Karlitto · 08-01-2014 12:04pm

@Nody

I agree

borderlinemeath · 08-01-2014 12:11pm

Karlitto wrote: »

It is unfortunate alright that your brother has a medical condition, but the dog should not be a permanent resident of the back garden, is this medical condition new or did he have it before the dog came along?

Indeed, I am sure other people you know do leave their dogs in the back yard, but as I said, dogs are social, pack animals, not garden ornaments.

The fact that your Dad spends "most of the day, every day in the garden with the dog".... has nothing to do with it, he needs interaction with different people, not just one person. Infact, he should have had this
interaction and social exposure thoughout his whole life.

Of course there are varying reports on disciplining a dog, but any professional or person with decent knowledge of raising and training a dog will tell you that hitting it is a bad idea. It is not hard to know what to believe, get a professional behaviorist/trainer to come visit him, or you bring him to the behaviorist.

And of course he behaves for your Dad, he hits him! And he is the one who "spends all day in the garden" with him, he could be afraid of other people hitting him, hence why he is aggressive.

So, would I be right in saying you got him from a friend who's dog got humped in a park whilst in heat?

I am sorry that you don't appreciate it, but several people have given you good advice here (mainly get a behaviorist, but no, you want a quick solution as if it were a quick DIY job like fixing a squeaky hinge on a door) Interpret it any way you want, fashion accessory or garden ornament, the truth is, you got a dog without doing any research on owning one, it is in the back yard all day long with no interaction with other dogs at all(which by the way, is more important than interaction with humans) and some interaction from your Dad. All of this spells out to me that you and your Dad are just irresponsible dog owners.

While I agree somewhat with the sentiment that your trying to tell the OP, do you (and other posters) not think you're being a bit harsh here?
Yes the poster asked for advice and now they're being accused of irresponsible dog ownership? OK, the dog may lead a life in the confines of the garden but as the OP says, the father spends a considerable amount of time there? And the house is off limits due to a medical condition. I don't know about you but irresponsible ownership is dogs allowed out to roam, to walk themselves, let foul pavements etc. The OP is asking for advice, not a lecture.

You see, this is what I am talking about! You have no idea how much it would cost, nor have you explored any options. Like I said, the place in swords, it costs 5 euro to go in and let your dog interact with other dogs for the hour, it costs nothing to pick up a telephone and ask a behaviorist simple advice, infact, you would probably catch one of the guys in swords while your dog was there and ask him what he thinks, it would take two minutes and I guarantee he would not charge you for that. It is the ongoing training that would cost.

Did you read the OP? The dog is also dog aggressive, do you really think going to one of the classes in Cloghran where there are all kinds of dogs, all hyped up on the atmosphere is really the place to go?? Besides, the trainers there are not behaviourists.

OP, please don't go to Cloghran with a dog aggressive dog, you won't be welcomed in as there's various classes and it can be very disruptive and dangerous if there is a dog that acts aggressively. Besides, it could possibly be the worst atmosphere for your dog, given that he is prone to aggressiveness with you and other dogs he meets (on walks presumably). Again, my advice still stands, you need a behaviourist to visit the home to get to the root of the problem.

ViveLaVie · 08-01-2014 12:17pm

Karlitto wrote: »

It is unfortunate alright that your brother has a medical condition, but the dog should not be a permanent resident of the back garden, is this medical condition new or did he have it before the dog came along?

Indeed, I am sure other people you know do leave their dogs in the back yard, but as I said, dogs are social, pack animals, not garden ornaments.

The fact that your Dad spends "most of the day, every day in the garden with the dog".... has nothing to do with it, he needs interaction with different people, not just one person. Infact, he should have had this
interaction and social exposure thoughout his whole life.

Of course there are varying reports on disciplining a dog, but any professional or person with decent knowledge of raising and training a dog will tell you that hitting it is a bad idea. It is not hard to know what to believe, get a professional behaviorist/trainer to come visit him, or you bring him to the behaviorist.

And of course he behaves for your Dad, he hits him! And he is the one who "spends all day in the garden" with him, he could be afraid of other people hitting him, hence why he is aggressive.

So, would I be right in saying you got him from a friend who's dog got humped in a park whilst in heat?

I am sorry that you don't appreciate it, but several people have given you good advice here (mainly get a behaviorist, but no, you want a quick solution as if it were a quick DIY job like fixing a squeaky hinge on a door) Interpret it any way you want, fashion accessory or garden ornament, the truth is, you got a dog without doing any research on owning one, it is in the back yard all day long with no interaction with other dogs at all(which by the way, is more important than interaction with humans) and some interaction from your Dad. All of this spells out to me that you and your Dad are just irresponsible dog owners.

You see, this is what I am talking about! You have no idea how much it would cost, nor have you explored any options. Like I said, the place in swords, it costs 5 euro to go in and let your dog interact with other dogs for the hour, it costs nothing to pick up a telephone and ask a behaviorist simple advice, infact, you would probably catch one of the guys in swords while your dog was there and ask him what he thinks, it would take two minutes and I guarantee he would not charge you for that. It is the ongoing training that would cost.

It's newish in that he developed it after we got a dog. We kept the dog inside initially but had to move him out after.

Ok... does that mean so that single people can't get dogs? Because first you say it's because the dog has no interaction with anyone and then you say he needs a variety of people and other dogs.

That's fair enough about hitting him. I accept that is wrong and tbh I never agreed with my Dad doing it. I certainly don't do it to him and never would. Regardless, he gets aggressive with me when I rub him sometimes and never with my father. At this stage I'm really not going to be able to change the way my Dad treats him. My Dad doesn't see a problem and doesn't even really believe me when I say that he growls or snaps at me.

I did get him off a friend but no her dog wasn't humped in the park. I don't know why you're being crass about it, I didn't ask for a background check on the puppy because I couldn't avail of one.

I never asked for a quick solution either. I requested advice and some possible reasons as to why he could be like this. I don't live anywhere near Swords either btw - not everyone lives in Dublin!

I'm a student heavily indebted in fees etc at the moment and can't afford a behaviourist myself. My father doesn't feel one is necessary. Of course if he was sick we would pay for his treatment, but that would be necessary whereas my Dad doesn't see this as so. Friends and family also don't think there's a major problem with the dog. In fact, it's usually just me the dog has a problem with!

Karlitto · 08-01-2014 12:21pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

While I agree somewhat with the sentiment that your trying to tell the OP, do you (and other posters) not think you're being a bit harsh here?
Yes the poster asked for advice and now they're being accused of irresponsible dog ownership? OK, the dog may lead a life in the confines of the garden but as the OP says, the father spends a considerable amount of time there? And the house is off limits due to a medical condition. I don't know about you but irresponsible ownership is dogs allowed out to roam, to walk themselves, let foul pavements etc. The OP is asking for advice, not a lecture.

Did you read the OP? The dog is also dog aggressive, do you really think going to one of the classes in Cloghran where there are all kinds of dogs, all hyped up on the atmosphere is really the place to go?? Besides, the trainers there are not behaviourists.

OP, please don't go to Cloghran with a dog aggressive dog, you won't be welcomed in as there's various classes and it can be very disruptive and dangerous if there is a dog that acts aggressively. Besides, it could possibly be the worst atmosphere for your dog, given that he is prone to aggressiveness with you and other dogs he meets (on walks presumably). Again, my advice still stands, you need a behaviourist to visit the home to get to the root of the problem.

Yes, I did read it, and yes, it is a good environment to go, the trainers there were more than happy to assist when I brought my previous dog there (which was extremely dog aggressive as he was a rescue with a background that the pound believed to be a bait dog)

Irresponsible dog owners come in many many forms. If you know as much as you appear to, then you know regular interaction with a single person is simple not enough for a dog.

Yes, I do think I am being harsh, but to me, dogs are not toys, nor should they be thrown in the back garden and left there until you want to play with them.

ViveLaVie · 08-01-2014 12:25pm

Nody wrote: »

So why did your father get a dog in the first place then?

Being around the dog does not equal quality time for the dog. Secondly your "other reports" are coming from uneducated fools (and that's being nice) who have no idea on actual scientific studies which has disproven that and other pain related methods for over 20 years along with alpha dog behaviour etc. It's about as up to date as claiming that women should not vote because they are not intelligent enough...

How would you handle a serious medical condition then? A vet bill can easily drop in over 500 EUR (and behavourists come in a lot cheaper then that) and of course if he ever bit someone and it lead to court case or need to pay someone's doctors bills...

I'm honestly baffled at the idea that you already rule out a behavourist with out even knowing how much one would cost (as you previously stated that your father would never allow one in the first place). If I was you I'd PM DBB (I know there are a few other here as well but I'm sorry to say I don't remember your board names of the top of my head )with were you live (rather then posting it for all to see) and ask him for a recommendation in the area (they should come to your house because that's were things need to change and that way you avoid cowboys of the "oh dogs need to see you as alpha leader BS") and ask how much an initial consulting visit would be. I think you'd not only be surprised on the price but also how much suggestions of your behaviour that needs to change (and yes chances are 75%+ of the change is on you and your family, not the dog due to not reading the dog properly) from that single visit and how much of an impact it will have on your quality of life with the dog. Don't see it as yet another cost but rather as an investment of making your (and your family's) life better for years to come because that's what it is at the end of the day.

We got a dog before my brother got sick and tbh I don't see why I have to give out a medical history on my brother here to appease you.

Well what does constitute the correct and proper amount of social interaction so?

Again, I have never hit the dog and never would. I can't control my father. He doesn't do it often, only when Bailey is being aggressive.

As I've said earlier, we would gladly pay for any medical treatment necessary but my Dad doesn't see Bailey's behaviour as problematic so he thinks a behaviourist would be wasteful. I'd pay for it myself but I am stone broke.

I will send that PM nevertheless and do my best to convince my family but tbh I'm the only one who sees an issue. I was looking for some advice as to what methods I could use personally to develop a more calm relationship with him.

Nody · 08-01-2014 12:27pm

ViveLaVie wrote: »

It's newish in that he developed it after we got a dog. We kept the dog inside initially but had to move him out after.

This makes more sense now.

Ok... does that mean so that single people can't get dogs? Because first you say it's because the dog has no interaction with anyone and then you say he needs a variety of people and other dogs.

You're mixing up two things here. First of all a single person should not leave their dog at home for 10h+ every day but try to stimulate with dog care / dog walker / visit during lunch. This is to ensure the dog gets appropiate stimuli through out the day and not end up being a energized fur ball of destruction. Being single has nothing to do with it as it's the interaction for the dog that matters (see Dev's thread on how he handles his dog as single but working from home for example) and a full family or single makes no difference if the dog don't get the interaction it needs.

Secondly is about socialisation of a new pup which has to be done to make sure the pup meets as many types of dogs, people (with various dress code) at the crucial weeks of puppy hood to avoid those things being seen as scary (i.e. unknown) later on in their life. Failure to do this introduction will have significant negative and life lasting consequences for the dog. They can be reduced but never removed basically.

That's fair enough about hitting him. I accept that is wrong and tbh I never agreed with my Dad doing it. I certainly don't do it to him and never would. Regardless, he gets aggressive with me when I rub him sometimes and never with my father. At this stage I'm really not going to be able to change the way my Dad treats him. My Dad doesn't see a problem and doesn't even really believe me when I say that he growls or snaps at me.

Could you perhaps film it to prove it to your father?

I'm a student heavily indebted in fees etc at the moment and can't afford a behaviourist myself. My father doesn't feel one is necessary. Of course if he was sick we would pay for his treatment, but that would be necessary whereas my Dad doesn't see this as so. Friends and family also don't think there's a major problem with the dog. In fact, it's usually just me the dog has a problem with!

Now the last sentance "usually"; are you saying that the dog never snaps at anyone else or that you're the only one that the dog snaps at all the time? Either way I'd go with filming and behavourist route but it will help to limit down the interactions in question (if it is only you then the question would be how you approach the dog were as if it happens to everyone eventually then it's a more general problem).

ViveLaVie · 08-01-2014 12:27pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

While I agree somewhat with the sentiment that your trying to tell the OP, do you (and other posters) not think you're being a bit harsh here?
Yes the poster asked for advice and now they're being accused of irresponsible dog ownership? OK, the dog may lead a life in the confines of the garden but as the OP says, the father spends a considerable amount of time there? And the house is off limits due to a medical condition. I don't know about you but irresponsible ownership is dogs allowed out to roam, to walk themselves, let foul pavements etc. The OP is asking for advice, not a lecture.

Did you read the OP? The dog is also dog aggressive, do you really think going to one of the classes in Cloghran where there are all kinds of dogs, all hyped up on the atmosphere is really the place to go?? Besides, the trainers there are not behaviourists.

OP, please don't go to Cloghran with a dog aggressive dog, you won't be welcomed in as there's various classes and it can be very disruptive and dangerous if there is a dog that acts aggressively. Besides, it could possibly be the worst atmosphere for your dog, given that he is prone to aggressiveness with you and other dogs he meets (on walks presumably). Again, my advice still stands, you need a behaviourist to visit the home to get to the root of the problem.

I wouldn't be able to handle Bailey in an environment with so many other hyper dogs so I won't go there. Thanks for your advice.

tk123 · 08-01-2014 12:28pm

A behaviourist will cost less than a trip to a&e and god forbid legal fees if he was to bite somebody else. I had one come to the house last year for my dog (he has separation issues) and it was honestly worth every penny. They'll come to your house see what's happening and offer guidance. It's not a blame game or somebody coming to tell you off and that you're doing thing's wrong - they'll offer guidance and give you a plan on things to work on.

ViveLaVie · 08-01-2014 12:29pm

Karlitto wrote: »

Yes, I did read it, and yes, it is a good environment to go, the trainers there were more than happy to assist when I brought my previous dog there (which was extremely dog aggressive as he was a rescue with a background that the pound believed to be a bait dog)

Irresponsible dog owners come in many many forms. If you know as much as you appear to, then you know regular interaction with a single person is simple not enough for a dog.

Yes, I do think I am being harsh, but to me, dogs are not toys, nor should they be thrown in the back garden and left there until you want to play with them.

He is not a toy or ornament to me either. I can't go to Swords I live too far away and I think it would be a bad idea anyway. Bailey will go nuts around other dogs.

anniehoo · 08-01-2014 12:30pm

Can we watch the "lecturing" tone that's going on please. People post here for advice, not to be chastised and belittled. It is a tone that makes people very hesitant in a)starting a thread in our forum at all and b)continuing to post in the future.

There are ways of getting your point across without being "harsh" as you've admitted to Karlitto.

ViveLaVie · 08-01-2014 12:40pm

Nody wrote: »

This makes more sense now.

You're mixing up two things here. First of all a single person should not leave their dog at home for 10h+ every day but try to stimulate with dog care / dog walker / visit during lunch. This is to ensure the dog gets appropiate stimuli through out the day and not end up being a energized fur ball of destruction. Being single has nothing to do with it as it's the interaction for the dog that matters (see Dev's thread on how he handles his dog as single but working from home for example) and a full family or single makes no difference if the dog don't get the interaction it needs.

Secondly is about socialisation of a new pup which has to be done to make sure the pup meets as many types of dogs, people (with various dress code) at the crucial weeks of puppy hood to avoid those things being seen as scary (i.e. unknown) later on in their life. Failure to do this introduction will have significant negative and life lasting consequences for the dog. They can be reduced but never removed basically.

Could you perhaps film it to prove it to your father?

Now the last sentance "usually"; are you saying that the dog never snaps at anyone else or that you're the only one that the dog snaps at all the time? Either way I'd go with filming and behavourist route but it will help to limit down the interactions in question (if it is only you then the question would be how you approach the dog were as if it happens to everyone eventually then it's a more general problem).

Oh well Dad walks him everyday, sometimes twice a day. These are good, long, robust walks. I definitely notice he's more likely to be aggressive if he misses a walk.

Aside from that, he's kept in the garden but my Dad would be in there a lot and there are loads of cats, birds and mice around for Bailey to hunt, which he does do.

I think we may have failed with his socialisation as a puppy. He wouldn't have had much interaction with anyone but us and no other dogs really.

I'm saying that Bailey has snapped and growled
at me on more than one occasion. He tried to attack me one day, went to bite my arm and got my sleeve. He snapped at my sister once ever and never at anyone else really. The first time it happened we'd had him for years and when I told my father he point blank didn't believe me.

It happened again the other day; I brought my boyfriend out to meet him, he was jumping up on him wagging his tail, I rubbed him, he growled, boyfriend told him to stop, back to wagging tail and playing. But it is a frightening experience for me when it happens. It is not often and most of the time he's lovely with me but he turns then on occasion.

I don't know what my approach to him is like?

ViveLaVie · 08-01-2014 12:41pm

tk123 wrote: »

A behaviourist will cost less than a trip to a&e and god forbid legal fees if he was to bite somebody else. I had one come to the house last year for my dog (he has separation issues) and it was honestly worth every penny. They'll come to your house see what's happening and offer guidance. It's not a blame game or somebody coming to tell you off and that you're doing thing's wrong - they'll offer guidance and give you a plan on things to work on.

Thank you. I will look into it.

Nody · 08-01-2014 12:47pm

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Oh well Dad walks him everyday, sometimes twice a day. These are good, long, robust walks. I definitely notice he's more likely to be aggressive if he misses a walk.

It should really be twice a day if possible if not more; from the sound of it the dog is simply high energy and not given enough stimuli to get it out of the system so to speak.

I'm saying that Bailey has snapped and growled
at me on more than one occasion. He tried to attack me one day, went to bite my arm and got my sleeve. He snapped at my sister once ever and never at anyone else really. The first time it happened we'd had him for years and when I told my father he point blank didn't believe me.

It's unusual for a dog to go directly to biting from nothing; are you aware of the signs of a dog being stressed? Because my guess here (and once again this is why you'd want a professional over) is that you (and possibly your family) are missing what Bailey is telling you and picking up on the body language he's giving that he's uncomfortable in a given situation. This in turn leads to the growling/snapping (i.e. escalating the warning from I'm stressed -> growling/snapping air -> biting someone) as he feels cornered and don't see how to get out from the situation. Combine that with poor socialisation as younger and you have a dog that's scared of a lot of things and don't know how to handle it so they growl, snap the air and are simply afraid. This is also where the behavourist comes into play to help the dog feel more safe and read it's body language (and by extension you feel safe around the dog because you know what it does and why).

*edit*Only to add I'm very happy you'l consider a behavourist; it is really the best possible route on advice no matter what us keyboard warriors can tell you.*edit*

borderlinemeath · 08-01-2014 1:17pm

Karlitto wrote: »

Yes, I did read it, and yes, it is a good environment to go, the trainers there were more than happy to assist when I brought my previous dog there (which was extremely dog aggressive as he was a rescue with a background that the pound believed to be a bait dog)

Irresponsible dog owners come in many many forms. If you know as much as you appear to, then you know regular interaction with a single person is simple not enough for a dog.

Yes, I do think I am being harsh, but to me, dogs are not toys, nor should they be thrown in the back garden and left there until you want to play with them.

The training classes in Cloghran may have worked for you but to force a dog aggressive/fearful dog into a situation with lots of other dogs is known as 'flooding', a potentially damaging method of behaviour modification that can be extremely stressful for the dog. Put it this way, flooding is one of Cesar Milans favourite techniques, so I would steer well clear of it.

Dog is very aggressive

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