price for cooker electric switch in kitchen

cranefly

Could someone please give me a ballpark figure to fit and electrical outlet in the kitchen for a dual fuel range cooker, our all gas cooker has seen better days, we are on bottled gas, so was looking around for an all gas range type cooker but they seem to have been eclipsed by dual fuel types, gas hobs and electric ovens, all gas are very scarce and if you do find one they are alot more expensive, i wish we had got the kitchen wired for an electric cooker at the time of building but we always thought gas was the way for us.
The fuse box is on the next wall to where we will have the cooker so it is not too far away and the meter box is on the same wall outside if that is any help.

Sir Arthur Daley

It could be in the region €100-€200, depends if you get an electrician or diyer really.

tomdempsey200

illegal now to get a diyer

2011

cranefly wrote: »

Could someone please give me a ballpark figure to fit and electrical outlet in the kitchen for a dual fuel range cooker, our all gas cooker has seen better days, we are on bottled gas, so was looking around for an all gas range type cooker but they seem to have been eclipsed by dual fuel types, gas hobs and electric ovens, all gas are very scarce and if you do find one they are alot more expensive, i wish we had got the kitchen wired for an electric cooker at the time of building but we always thought gas was the way for us.
The fuse box is on the next wall to where we will have the cooker so it is not too far away and the meter box is on the same wall outside if that is any help.

From your description it sounds like the existing power supply is for the gas igniter and therefore the cable for this circuit would be sized accordingly.

As you appear to understand a more substantial supply and therefore a new circuit with a heavier cable would be required for the new cooker.

As with all work carried out on a distribution board it is not work suited to a DIYer.

I think that anyone employing the services of a DIYer for this sort of work is foolish and are leaving themselves very exposed. [/COLOR]
As tomdempsey200 states this is now ilegal.

In terms of a price, it would be hard to estimate without seeing it. Perhaps you can post pictures and provide more details such as:
1) Length of run for the cable
2) Wall type (plasterboard partition wall or block)
3) Is the house a bungalow?
4) Can floorboards be lifted upstairs?
5) Where is the board in relation to the cooker?
6) Is there spare capacity in the board?
7) When was the house wired? What condition is the wiring in?

Sir Arthur Daley

The OP could employ the diyer to take up floor boards - drill joices - do chasing for new service/install cable trunking and isolation box and even run cable and get an electrician to second fix the installation, it would be alot cheaper as a diyer would work on average for around €8 an hour versus €40 an hour average for an electrician.

tomdempsey200

i suppose in theory

i doubt a diyer is competent to fit cable and box tbh or do any electrical job properly

there's a knack to every little electrical job


even the smallest thing such as fitting the conduit properly into the box

Sir Arthur Daley

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

i suppose in theory

i doubt a diyer is competent to fit cable and box tbh or do any electrical job properly

there's a knack to every little electrical job


even the smallest thing such as fitting the conduit properly into the box

All these jobs are not rocket science to be fair about it.

cranefly

Thanks for the quick response guys, house is a dormer bungalow, solid block wall, cooker is two thirds along a wall approx 16ft long, kitchen at gable end of the house, gable wall 5ft or so from cooker, fuse box is on said gable wall up near the ceiling so 5ft away again, and the main meter box is on outside said gable wall. so nearer still, all fairly close together, with i dont think any need to lift floorboards upstairs.
Thanks for that advice wikihow, if their was alot of work needed, a diyer would be the way to go, and then get the electrician to finish it off. forgot to say their is space left on the fuse box as well as the last switch is pointed down.
2011 good sound decent advice their, thanks for that, house was built in 90 finished off in 95 as funds allowed, so the wiring should be ok. Attic converted in 06.

I rang an electrician in mallow today who did the wiring for the attic conversion, he will give a call on friday to have a look see, he got us out of a bind with the conversion 6 years ago as the leky we got to do the job got a bit confused with wiring the fuse box, 2 days he was stood on the countertop fiddling with the wires looking fairly perplexed, a nice guy but had to tell him on yer bike. owen the electrician from mallow came and re did all the first fellas wiring in the attic conversion and had it wired to the fuse box in no time. so with any luck we might be able to get it done for around the hundred mark maybe a bit more, thanks for all the advice guys

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

The OP could employ the diyer to take up floor boards - drill joices - do chasing for new service/install cable trunking and isolation box and even run cable and get an electrician to second fix the installation, it would be alot cheaper as a diyer would work on average for around €8 an hour versus €40 an hour average for an electrician.

No, I think that would be a bad idea.

I have seen this type of "help" in action before.
Rest assured a DIYer that works for less than minimum wage will not deliver.
Due to a lack of experience the chase will not be not wide enough and will be in the wrong place, the box will be crooked, the holes through the joists will not be large enough, the cable will get damaged and will damage other cables, the trunking will be the wrong size and it will not properly fixed.
Generally electricians would rather pay employ an apprentice and to use professional tools, than stand over a DIYer that is using a Black & Decker.

Any electrician worth his salt will not complete someone else's work (except under exceptional circumstances).

tomdempsey200

the only person who can do basic electrical work properly is an apprentice or a trained electrician ime


there's likely to be a whole load of issues after diy first fix


i lost count of the number of times someone said 'i ran a cable out for that'

invariably it's done wrong unfortunately

Irish Steve

2011 wrote: »

No, I think that would be a bad idea.

I have seen this type of "help" in action before.
Rest assured a DIYer that works for less than minimum wage will not deliver.
Due to a lack of experience the chase will not be not wide enough and will be in the wrong place, the box will be crooked, the holes through the joists will not be large enough, the cable will get damaged and will damage other cables, the trunking will be the wrong size and it will not properly fixed.
Generally electricians would rather pay employ an apprentice and to use professional tools, than stand over a DIYer that is using a Black & Decker.

Any electrician worth his salt will not complete someone else's work (except under exceptional circumstances).

I'm not even sure it's worth saying, but I am going to, simply because I am sick to the back teeth of being told that I am incompetent etc.

Yes, an electrician worth his salt will do a good job, but there are a lot out there that are most definitely NOT worth their salt, and just because they are a member of the exclusive clubs that allows them to do electrical work does NOT mean that they will do a good job, and the clubs have not exactly been active in rooting out the rotten apples from their barrels.

I've managed to work with electricity, and gas, for over 40 years without killing myself or even coming close, and done plenty of work on both, including some that I know from experience a good few electricians would not have done because they wouldn't have understood it, but now, because I am not a signed up member of the right club, and can't afford the crazy money that it would cost to join, I am now regarded as incompetent, and possibly a criminal for doing things that I was trained to do over 40 years ago.

Trouble is, that was back in the days when if you couldn't do the job you got fired, and there wasn't a system that threw loads of paper certificates at you for doing the job.

Now, if you don't have certificates a mile long, you're not qualified, and to be blunt, some of those so called certificates are not worth the paper they are printed on.

If I can design, install and commission a complete 3 phase system which includes a fully automatic autostart diesel standby generator, with a 16 Kva standby battery backed UPS for computer use, and get it passed by ESB first time, I reckon that changing a circuit breaker in a panel is not beyond me, but the system says I can't do it any more, and the same is true for a CCTV or alarm system, (effectively a very simple but specialised computer system) unless I pay a huge annual sum to another club in order to be a member, if I even change a battery in a sensor, I could be liable to all manner of sanction, as could the person I do it for. That's not even health and safety, that's restrictive practise gone stark staring crazy for all the wrong reasons.

In some respects, I am glad I am close to retiring age, though I fear for the future sanity of my children, trying to get even simple jobs done for an acceptable price and at an appropriate time is going to become increasingly difficult, and it's not going to get any better.

There are huge numbers of skilled people out there that are being forced out of business by the increasing levels of totally inappropriate regulation and bureaucracy, and we all know how well regulation worked with the banks.

Now, alarms, CCTV, electric and gas repairs, and probably before too long oil heating, solar power and the like will all come under the "specialist" umbrella, and the only winners will be the people that run the regulatory clubs that register these trades.

The tradesmen will lose a massive sum each year to be registered, and the end result will be a massive increase in the cost of getting any sort of repair done in the home, with no guarantee of any improvement in the quality of that work.

I've had to pick up the pieces of a number of Celtic cowboy jobs over the last while, and I've seen nothing to give me any encouragement that things are going to get any better any time soon.

Yes, this could be taken as a serious rant, simply because I despise the generalisations that are being thrown at DIYers by people who in some cases are very much living in glass houses.

Sir Arthur Daley

Alot of diyers i know are very skilled people and its irrelevant if they use black and decker tools or bosch blue professional tools to do their jobs.

2011

Irish Steve, I agree with much if your post. I have seen some DIYers produce a high standard of electrical work. I have also seen some registered electrical contractors produce some appalling work (as per my posts on this forum).

However, as you can see my post above is directed at a DIYer that works for "less than minimum wage".

I believe that a DIYer that can only charge €8 an hour for this type of work (the figure that WikiHow suggests) will not deliver a reasonable standard of work.

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

Alot of diyers i know are very skilled people and its irrelevant if they use black and decker tools or bosch blue professional tools to do their jobs.

I know many skilled DIYers too. They all charge more than minimum wage. If they use poor quality nonprofessional tools it takes far longer to do the work regardless of their ability. If they charge by hour (as per your post above) the "cost advantage" over an insured registered electrical contractor reduces.

Note: I am not a registered electrical contractor.

chrismon

If it was a sperate oven that comes with a 3 pin plug as standard, is it ok to simply plug it into a 13 amp socket?

Irish Steve

chrismon wrote: »

If it was a sperate oven that comes with a 3 pin plug as standard, is it ok to simply plug it into a 13 amp socket?

I would be surprised to see an oven with a 13A plug, but in that case, yes a socket would be fine.

chrismon

Irish Steve wrote: »

I would be surprised to see an oven with a 13A plug, but in that case, yes a socket would be fine.

Iv seen a good few of them, wasn't 100% on the regulation.
Thanks.

2011

One of the problems with this is that if the oven was connected to a socket circuit it would be easy to overload the circuit causing the MCB to trip.

cranefly

The oven we have at the minute a new world range does have an electric ignition for the gas rings to light, so this is a normal plug just plugged into a normal socket, but as i said before it is so hard to find an all gas range unless you pay a good 2 to 3 hundred more than a dual fuel cooker, and another expense i was not expecting was to convert the new dual fuel cooker from nat gas to bottled gas by an rgi installer, i had to write on the electrical forum to try and find what that cost willl be.

cranefly

should have said the plumbing and heating forum, sorry

2011

I would guess that you will pay in the region of €250 for cooker circuit wired on a 6sq. That would include certification if same.

To be sure you will need to get someone to look at it.

tomdempsey200

2011 wrote: »

I would guess that you will pay in the region of €250 for cooker circuit wired on a 6sq. That would include certification if same.

To be sure you will need to get someone to look at it.

didn't he say the fusebox was close by lol:D shouldn't be anything like that dear

Bruthal

WikiHow wrote: »

All these jobs are not rocket science to be fair about it.

No but the average diyer makes it look as if it is.

Bruthal

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

shouldn't be anything like that dear

I didnt realise you`s were that close

tomdempsey200

Bruthal wrote: »

I didnt realise you`s were that close

Sir Arthur Daley

Bruthal wrote: »

No but the average diyer makes it look as if it is.

There are plenty electricians who would make a big deal out of it too.

Bruthal

WikiHow wrote: »

There are plenty electricians who would make a big deal out of it too.

They are only diyers

deandean

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

the only person who can do basic electrical work properly is an apprentice or a trained electrician ime

Aah now Tom...that may be your experience but it isn't mine. Many, many competent DIY-ers are IME well capable of doing basic electrical work, and more besides. And this is acknowledged even in the latest nanny-state regulations which permits limited works by a DIY-er on his domestic installation.

e.g. the last qualified electrician in my house 4 years ago engaged by the builder during an attic conversion, I free-issued him with ceiling roses and he didn't know loop wiring. I found three uninsulated sets of wiring connectors in the attic above, after he'd gone. I had discussions with him, he told me "It's right because I SAY IT'S RIGHT". I finished the job properly myself so that there were zero connections up in the attic.

One difference is that a DIY-er isn't under the time pressure of an electrician. I can spend a day doing a job properly that a paid electrician might have to rush in two hours if he's to make a profit.

But like everything in life, a DIY-er has to know his limits both in terms of his abilities and in terms of legislation.

Re: the OP, he's prob looking at a new MCB in his consumer board and a switched cooker outlet. Maybe he can do some re-tiling afterwards but the electrical side is for a REC. IMO.

2011

deandean wrote: »

Many, many competent DIY-ers are IME well capable of doing basic electrical work, and more besides.

+1

But like everything in life, a DIY-er has to know his limits both in terms of his abilities and in terms of legislation.

Well said, agree totally

cranefly

thanks again guys, just had a rant over on the plumbing forum about having to pay more people to do things i would have thought i could do myself, i would never try to do anything with electricity as i can only just about change a plug, changing the nat gas jets to lpg jets is another expense i did not count on, but i can see the point of getting a professional to do it thats fair enough.
But even if the cooker came with lpg jets i just found out i have to get a rgi gas installer to unconnect the gas hose from the old cooker and attatch to the new one, now i am not the handiest person in the world, but i think i could just about manage to do that little job. only for the fact i saved a few euro on the cooker itself with the calor shop, this little episode could cost me dear.

Irish Steve

e.g. the last qualified electrician in my house 4 years ago engaged by the builder during an attic conversion, I free-issued him with ceiling roses and he didn't know loop wiring. I found three uninsulated sets of wiring connectors in the attic above, after he'd gone. I had discussions with him, he told me "It's right because I SAY IT'S RIGHT". I finished the job properly myself so that there were zero connections up in the attic.

Similar experience here with my own house, was checking in the roof some time after we moved in, and found a 3 way strip loosely wrapped in tape, the earth wires were not even connected, just wound together, so that had to be sorted, and it meant I then went looking VERY closely at every other piece of wire in the house. This was pre Celtic Tiger, we moved in to the house in 1990.

Pretty sure that most of the cowboys that worked here went on to train the bigger cowboys that were responsible for the Celtic tiger mess.

I found more than a few things here that needed sorting, like unsleeved earth wires all over the place, light services with no earth at all, loose screws on sockets and switches, incorrect colour coding on cables, it took me a while to sort it all out, like a couple of days to get the heating working, I had to strip out the control centre and start again, 1.5 double insulated solid in a control box that's fused 3 amp and designed for .5 panel wiring flex made for problems, as it didn't fit the terminals if more than one wire was needed. Once that was done, I then had to sort out all the zone valves and time switches, and the boiler and pumps, despite having given the (not very bright) spark that was doing the job all the information he needed to do it, including complete wiring diagrams, he clearly couldn't understand them.

That's why I now don't trust Registered electricians any further than I can throw them, I've spent a lot of time sorting out things that should never have been passed, but there was no inspection.

There were 20 houses in that phase of the estate, Ours was the only one that ended up with a reliable and working heating system, and I would guess that some of the other houses have had some interesting issues with electrics too, if my experience was anything to go by.

And yes, the OP is probably going to have to use a REC, as far as I'm concerned, that's the law. Totally inappropriate, but the trade bodies have been able to get away with it.

Crazy, in that you have to have a REC to do most domestic work, but an unregistered spark can carry out work in a location such as a commercial kitchen, or a hotel, and in some cases an explosive environment, and there's no requirement for registration.

That tells me that there has been some very strong lobbying by vested interests, and they have succeeded in bringing in totally inappropriate levels of restriction, probably because the publicity surrounding the "consultation" was buried so deep the vast majority of sensible thinking people knew nothing about it until it was too late to do anything about it.

Aviation is one of the most regulated industries, for good reasons. On the maintenance side, a significant number of engineers will work under the supervision of a licensed engineer, and the licensed engineer will sign for, AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR, all the work carried out, and if anything goes wrong, he is the one that is in the direct line of fire. If the concept of certifying the work of others, having carried out necessary inspections, is appropriate for the aviation industry, why have we got more restrictive systems on electricity, gas and things like alarms and CCTV.

Perhaps we (the consumers) should be pushing for freedom of information reports on how many inspections are carried out by RECI and ECSSA, how many of those inspections fail work carried out, and how many complaints are made by customers over a year, just to make sure that the regulators are actually doing the job they are being paid very well for. A slight red herring, but indicative maybe, I was looking at the RECI and ECSSA web sites earlier, and it's worrying how out of date they are, and how many links to areas that are supposed to provide information are broken. details of training courses that finished 6 months ago doesn't give me the impression of an organisation that's doing the job professionally and competently

If it's appropriate for reports to be issued about people like nurses and doctors that are brought before their regulators, maybe RECI and ECSSA should be made to publicly report on how they deal with their bad apples. We all know where the banking regulators ended up letting things go, I have the same concerns about the regulators in some of these other industries, they are conspicuous by their silence, and low profile, probably because they don't want to lose members either from expulsion, or from resignations because they are seen to be over regulating.

2011

Great post Steve.
I think this discussion should be continued, but this is not the place (we are way off topic).

Please use this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057120741