Make me a Better Climber in 2014.

detones

This has been covered before on here but just looking for some fresh opinion/advice on this. Been cycling now about a year and a half and am considering racing in our Club League this year ………if it runs (no prizes for guessing the club ;-) ). Anyway my biggest weakness by far would be climbing, I’m ok on the flats and good on descents and have a bit of a Sprint. I have kind of gotten to a stage now where I can get over most Climbs but just slowly. I have improved a lot but still slow compared to most, If I compare my times on Strava to my clubmates on local hills I’m a fair bit off. To give you some guide as to where I am at I managed going up Howth from the Sutton Side in 10.16 the weekend. This was going at around 80-90% effort.

So for those that have been in my position what has worked to Improve your hill climbing? Hill repeats, gym work, turbo interval sessions? Is there any books worth reading, online resources etc Having gone from 90kg to 82kg I’m not looking to loose any more weight ( as a former gym bunny I recently had a work colleague who had not seen me in a while ask was I not well!!! ). I have never really done any structured training; I just kind of go out and try enjoy myself to be honest. Would appreciate if people can be a little more specific than find a big hill and go up it as fast as you can as many times as you can ;-)

07Lapierre

Do you have a compact or standard chainset? Maybe you gearing is too high?

Harrybelafonte

I, too have lost substantial weight and have always struggled on climbs. Went out to do Stocking Lane recently and found it easier, but still not fast. Part of me thinks a large hinerance is psychological. I've tried to stop thinking I'm bad at climbing and never mentioning it anymore. I figure going out and juts doing them over and over may help most.

detones

07Lapierre wrote: »

Do you have a compact or standard chainset? Maybe you gearing is too high?

I will shamefully admit I have a triple ( did not know any better when I started). However I never really use the granny cog, except on the likes of Bellewestown if you know it. I get over the local climbs Nags Head, Snowtown etc no problem on the current set up. My Cadence does drop as I never want to use the granny and just slog over in the middle ring. I'm not really in a position to buy a new bike or groupset for a while either. I will probably have the worst bike out there racing but its what I have to make do with.

Beasty

We need to start those Ardgillan repeats on Tuesday and Thursday evenings I think

(first 3 to get warmed up then the last 2 all-out...)

quozl

I'm pretty poor at all aspects of cycling but I've noticed an improvement in my climbing from recent turbo work.

I've been using these two videos
http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-sufferfests/thehunted/
and
http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-sufferfests/details-angels/

The first is basically a 2x20 minute sub-threshold workout and the second is 3x8 minutes slightly above threshold. They're wrapped up with decent race footage, a blackly humourous storyline and (IMO) decent music. You can do the exact same workout without the videos but I find they make it enjoyable and I don't have to keep track of intervals which I dislike doing.

Stocking lane from Brookwood to Viewing point is a 20 minute ride for me - I told you I was ****e - so these are great practice for it.

Another big advantage of the turbo is that I can really go all out on the intervals as I don't have to worry about the 90 minute cycle home and potentially slowing any riding buddies down by being f*cked.

Zyzz

Get back into the gym and do some leg work! (squats, lunges, hack squats etc etc)

detones

Beasty wrote: »

We need to start those Ardgillan repeats on Tuesday and Thursday evenings I think

(first 3 to get warmed up then the last 2 all-out...)

5 times up Ardgillan may just put me off cycling for good ;-) As Ardgillan is around 5 mins away from me its probably an ideal spot to do repeats. I find the road can be busy enough and a bit dicey with cars though.

detones

quozl wrote: »

Another big advantage of the turbo is that I can really go all out on the intervals as I don't have to worry about the 90 minute cycle home and potentially slowing any riding buddies down by being f*cked.

Thanks for that. Yeah I actually bought a decent Turbo, a tacx flow which gives you power/speed and cadence data. Just don't use it. I just prefer being out. But I do think it could be a useful tool and those suffervest vids look fun.

Raam

detones wrote: »

5 times up Ardgillan may just put me off cycling for good ;-) As Ardgillan is around 5 mins away from me its probably an ideal spot to do repeats. I find the road can be busy enough and a bit dicey with cars though.

Pah, excuses
Find a cyclist who is faster up the hill than you, hold on to their wheel as long as you can. You may just have to learn how to suffer a bit more.

Lusk_Doyle

Raam wrote: »

Pah, excuses
Find a cyclist who is faster up the hill than you, hold on to their wheel as long as you can. You may just have to learn how to suffer a bit more.

That's the way! We should look at starting those repeat sessions soon again as Beasty says.

petethedrummer

Raam wrote: »

Pah, excuses
Find a cyclist who is faster up the hill than you, hold on to their wheel as long as you can. You may just have to learn how to suffer a bit more.

This... but it's probably best to follow someone slightly better at climbing not someone enormously better.

NeedMoreGears

I'd be pretty happy at 10:16 for 80% effort up Howth. The best I've managed last year was 09:44.

I wonder is it a gearing issue?

The middle ring in a triple is probably something around 40 which likely means your cadence is quite low on the hills. You may be better selecting a lower gear (yeah the granny ring) and maintaining a cadence of 70 plus rather than grinding your way up.


I struggled up mount leinster on 34/26 compact a few years back but was able to climb it much faster with 34/30 the year after. I don't think there was much difference in my basic fitness or strength between the two efforts.

After that, it may be time to join Beasty and co. on Ardgillan for some hill repeats.

Harrybelafonte

Zyzz wrote: »

Get back into the gym and do some heavy leg work! (squats, lunges, hack squats etc etc)

Unlikely to work, or else I'd be seeing greater improvements already.

Lusk_Doyle

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

I'd be pretty happy at 10:16 for 80% effort up Howth. The best I've managed last year was 09:44.

I wonder is it a gearing issue?

The middle ring in a triple is probably something around 40 which likely means your cadence is quite low on the hills. You may be better selecting a lower gear (yeah the granny ring) and maintaining a cadence of 70 plus rather than grinding your way up.


I struggled up mount leinster on 34/26 compact a few years back but was able to climb it much faster with 34/30 the year after. I don't think there was much difference in my basic fitness or strength between the two efforts.

After that, it may be time to join Beasty and co. on Ardgillan for some hill repeats.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Ole Rodrigo

I'm not a good climber by any measure, but I found I made improvements riding a fixed gear on hills. Its pretty sore, at times, although that can only be a good thing.

brasshead

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

That's the way! We should look at starting those repeat sessions soon again as Beasty says.

yep, did those repeat sessions for most of last Winter and they helped my climbing a lot.

hoping to start doing them on Thursdays for the next few months.

Beasty

detones wrote: »

5 times up Ardgillan may just put me off cycling for good ;-) As Ardgillan is around 5 mins away from me its probably an ideal spot to do repeats. I find the road can be busy enough and a bit dicey with cars though.

Hardly any traffic after 8.30 at night - we tended to do 2 long loops last winter thereby avoiding the descent, but the winter before 4 or 5 climbs was standard. If I was people were struggling they could either do fewer repeats or turn at the gates

detones

Raam wrote: »

Pah, excuses
Find a cyclist who is faster up the hill than you, hold on to their wheel as long as you can. You may just have to learn how to suffer a bit more.

Agree totally with this, I do need to push myself more and it won't be hard finding somebody stronger at climbing than me

Inquitus

Nags Head is a nice one for repeats and quiet enough!

quozl

detones wrote: »

Thanks for that. Yeah I actually bought a decent Turbo, a tacx flow which gives you power/speed and cadence data. Just don't use it. I just prefer being out. But I do think it could be a useful tool and those suffervest vids look fun.

I think it's a great tool but agreed that it's more fun to be outside. It fits in great with my duties as the parent of two young kids though, and it's hard to get the same sort of consistent effort outside with traffic, traffic lights, downhills etc.

It's helped with another two things that I didn't mention:
1 - how quickly I recover from filling my body with lactic acid. I recover a lot quicker now after hard efforts. I think that's just from getting to do more hard efforts, more often as it's so convenient to do them on a turbo, and training my body to clear it out quicker.

2 - it's really helped me learn how hard I can go for specific lengths of time. I've got a much better understanding of the feeling of my sustainable 20 minute pace, 10 or 5 minute pace as I can go all out on the turbo without concern about the trek home. It's made me less conservative when attacking hills on groups rides as I know what effort levels I can recover from in a given timeframe. I also have a better understanding of what is a painful pace following a hard effort but is actually one that I'm slowly recovering in.

A lot of that may not apply to you as you're more experienced than me but I've found it a great tool for learning about myself as well as the obvious training advantages.

detones

Beasty wrote: »

Hardly any traffic after 8.30 at night - we tended to do 2 long loops last winter thereby avoiding the descent, but the winter before 4 or 5 climbs was standard. If I was people were struggling they could either do fewer repeats or turn at the gates

Would be great if this got up and running again, would hope there is interest in the club. Suffering always works best in company.

Lumen

detones wrote: »

To give you some guide as to where I am at I managed going up Howth from the Sutton Side in 10.16 the weekend. This was going at around 80-90% effort.

Do it again at 100% effort and report back.

Beasty

detones wrote: »

Would be great if this got up and running again, would hope there is interest in the club. Suffering always works best in company.

You already have a few of the "regulars" contributing to this thread;)

(I'm on a strictly flat training regime at present though ....)

Lumen

Also...

detones wrote:

Having gone from 90kg to 82kg I’m not looking to loose any more weight ( as a former gym bunny I recently had a work colleague who had not seen me in a while ask was I not well!!! ).

Unless you're actually anorexic, other people's opinions of your weight are irrelevant. About a quarter of adults in Ireland are obese.

wirelessdude01

Lumen wrote: »

Also...



Unless you're actually anorexic, other people's opinions of your weight are irrelevant. About a quarter of adults in Ireland are obese.

That Doctor Ava one that used to be on Operation Transformation says that approx 60% of adults in Ireland have a BMI of over 25 so technically are obese.

Lusk_Doyle

Lumen wrote: »

Also...



Unless you're actually anorexic, other people's opinions of your weight are irrelevant. About a quarter of adults in Ireland are obese.

43% of people know this.

Lusk_Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

You already have a few of the "regulars" contributing to this thread;)

(I'm on a strictly flat training regime at present though ....)

I'll post something on the facebook page about starting it up again from this Thursday.

Lumen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

That Doctor Ava one that used to be on Operation Transformation says that approx 60% of adults in Ireland have a BMI of over 25 so technically are obese.

"Obese" is over 30 according to the HSE.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/O/Obesity/

Cue all the "muscley" people claiming that BMI is nonsense 'cos international rugby players are all technically obese.

Lusk_Doyle

Lumen wrote: »

"Obese" is over 30 according to the HSE.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/O/Obesity/

Cue all the "muscley" people claiming that BMI is nonsense 'cos international rugby players are all technically obese.

Oh dear, he's believing what the government tells him! 1984 is on its way back!

bcmf

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I'll post something on the facebook page about starting it up again from this Thursday.

God help me but the worlds second worst climber may get involved in this torture.

Lusk_Doyle

bcmf wrote: »

God help me but the worlds second worst climber may get involved in this torture.

Raam I presume you mean? Either him or RobFowl!

quozl

bcmf wrote: »

God help me but the worlds second worst climber may get involved in this torture.

Any chance of a live video stream of the event

I need something to watch from my couch while eating my giant bowls of popcorn!

bcmf

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Raam I presume you mean? Either him or RobFowl!

No myself and Captain Havoc had a competition during the summer and he lost well he won if ya know what I mean.
He is the worst.

Beasty

quozl wrote: »

Any chance of a live video stream of the event

I need something to watch from my couch while eating my giant bowls of popcorn!

I'll try and remember to charge up the dashcam ...

detones

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

I'd be pretty happy at 10:16 for 80% effort up Howth. The best I've managed last year was 09:44.

I wonder is it a gearing issue?

The middle ring in a triple is probably something around 40 which likely means your cadence is quite low on the hills. You may be better selecting a lower gear (yeah the granny ring) and maintaining a cadence of 70 plus rather than grinding your way up.

This could be a factor. Like I said I rarely use the granny for most climbs and just keep it in the Middle resulting in low cadence climbing. A compact or even a standard crank would give me a better range. I generally need the granny only on a 10% or higher incline or so. Unfortunately it would be make more economic sense to get a new bike then change the groupset.

detones

bcmf wrote: »

God help me but the worlds second worst climber may get involved in this torture.

Sure you already started your hill repeat training as demonstrated by you the weekend on Howth

bcmf

detones wrote: »

Sure you already started your hill repeat training as demonstrated by you the weekend on Howth

Yes while you and wilkbmc dissappeared up to the summit for some reason I went and did another lap.

Anyway the solution to your problem is get some proper gears.

smurphy29

Don't be afraid of the smaller ring, people think that if they're using the granny gear on a triple they wil be a laughing stock, but who cares about that? You can always put the chain on the middle of the rear cog and the granny gear on the front to achieve the best gear ratio (probably equivalent to 34x25).

Really and truly though the only way to improve climbing is to keep at it, even (and especially) if it hurts like hell.

quozl

detones wrote: »

This could be a factor. Like I said I rarely use the granny for most climbs and just keep it in the Middle resulting in low cadence climbing. A compact or even a standard crank would give me a better range. I generally need the granny only on a 10% or higher incline or so. Unfortunately it would be make more economic sense to get a new bike then change the groupset.

By 'need' do you mean you're forced into the granny ring?

Because if you're doing low cadence climbing then you might well go faster by choosing to shift into the granny ring before you're forced to.

I find I climb fastest in a gear where I can spin at 80+.

Maybe there's no need to change group-set and you could just try higher cadence climbing? What's your cadence like on the flat - have you tried experimenting with cadence to see if a higher one suits you? It seems unlikely that you don't have suitable gearing available to you with a triple.

07Lapierre

detones wrote: »

I will shamefully admit I have a triple ( did not know any better when I started). However I never really use the granny cog, except on the likes of Bellewestown if you know it. I get over the local climbs Nags Head, Snowtown etc no problem on the current set up. My Cadence does drop as I never want to use the granny and just slog over in the middle ring. I'm not really in a position to buy a new bike or groupset for a while either. I will probably have the worst bike out there racing but its what I have to make do with.

A triple? ... that only leaves loosing weight and Hill repeats..sorry. not what you wanted to hear but...

p.s. I have a triple too

detones

quozl wrote: »

By 'need' do you mean you're forced into the granny ring?

Because if you're doing low cadence climbing then you might well go faster by choosing to shift into the granny ring before you're forced to.

I find I climb fastest in a gear where I can spin at 80+.

Maybe there's no need to change group-set and you could just try higher cadence climbing? What's your cadence like on the flat - have you tried experimenting with cadence to see if a higher one suits you? It seems unlikely that you don't have suitable gearing available to you with a triple.

Yeah by need I am basically forced into using the granny on very steep climbs. Its just a mental thing with me of not giving in and using the lower gear, stupid, I know. I would tend to have a natural high cadence (confirmed by observation by far more experience cyclist than I), I have consciously tried to spin fast from when I started cycling. Not sure exactly what as I have no sensor (hope to rectify this soon too).

Diarmuid

detones wrote: »

Having gone from 90kg to 82kg I’m not looking to loose any more weight ( as a former gym bunny I recently had a work colleague who had not seen me in a while ask was I not well!!! ).

What height are you? At 82ks you have to be about 7 foot 6 inches to hit the magic climber ratio

Lumen

Hill repeats are not necessary to become a more powerful climber. You just need more sustainable power.

Intervals are in some ways easier on the flat. How are you going to do a 20 minute threshold interval going up Howth if the hill finishes after 9 minutes?

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Hill repeats are not necessary to become a more powerful climber. You just need more sustainable power.

Intervals are in some ways easier on the flat. How are you going to do a 20 minute threshold interval going up Howth if the hill finishes after 9 minutes?

Do em on the turbo, then test the results on the hill later to see if it helped you.

detones

Diarmuid wrote: »

What height are you? At 82ks you have to be about 7 foot 6 inches to hit the magic climber ratio

Unfortunately no way near that! I'm around 5ft 10 but have never been lighter in the last 10 years. I've never been that overweight (with out getting into a BMI v bodyfat debate). At 90kg I had a bodyfat of 14%, not sure what it is now but I have lost a lot of muscle mass and am keen not to loose much more weight.

quozl

detones wrote: »

Yeah by need I am basically forced into using the granny on very steep climbs. Its just a mental thing with me of not giving in and using the lower gear, stupid, I know. I would tend to have a natural high cadence (confirmed by observation by far more experience cyclist than I), I have consciously tried to spin fast from when I started cycling. Not sure exactly what as I have no sensor (hope to rectify this soon too).

Well there you go then - an easy way to improve your climbing. Man up and use the granny ring

smurphy29

Climbing ability is governed by power divided by mass. 82kg may be light compared to what you have been, and it may well be muscle and not fat, but in cycling circles it is a fair bit of mass to have to carry up the hills. Chances are the clubmates who are riding away from you on the slopes are considerably lighter than you.

Brian?

Zyzz wrote: »

Get back into the gym and do some heavy leg work! (squats, lunges, hack squats etc etc)

I wouldn't actually. Heavy leg work is training a different energy system than what's needed for climbing, it also grows fast twitch muscle fibers which is the opposite of what you want for climbing.

Look at the bigger pros who got better at climbing like Wiggins, he shed weight in a big way.

Zyzz

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Unlikely to work, or else I'd be seeing greater improvements already.

Whats your routine? How much are you lifting?

Brian? wrote: »

I wouldn't actually. Heavy leg work is training a different energy system than what's needed for climbing, it also grows fast twitch muscle fibers which is the opposite of what you want for climbing.

Look at the bigger pros who got better at climbing like Wiggins, he shed weight in a big way.

Edited my post. Leg work in general, not just heavy.

Harrybelafonte

Gym routines are as secret as sex lives. For some of us anyway