Summons to Court because boss didn't pay fine

Buzz84

Really need some advice here.

I was working as a delivery driver in my old job. I was caught speeding by a speedvan and my boss got the fixed penalty notice in the post.

I was having a lot of problems with him already such as not getting paid and then not being paid what I should of been. I had met him and told him I wanted to leave, he wanted me to stay until after xmas which I agreed and he said he'd pay the speeding fine. This was the first time I knew about it.

I signed the notice and put my driver's license number on it and gave it back to him. Anyway around September I got a phone call of him saying that he ''forgot'' to pay the fine and was after being in court. He told me it had been adjourned because he wanted me to go up and say I had been driving. I asked him why would they need me since I had signed the document and had no problem taking the points. I said I would go to the Garda station and I'd sign a statement but he said this wasn't good enough for the judge, that he wanted me there.

I phoned a friend of mine who is a Guard and explained the situation, that I didn't want to go to court as I didn't trust my ex-boss and didn't know what he had said to the judge previously. I had suspected that he was putting the blame on me for not paying the fixed notice. He advised me since there was no summons that I would be stupid to go so I didn't.

Anyway I now have a summons for the traffic court up in town next week and not sure what to do or what to suspect. I have no problems taking the points or even having to pay the fine but the thoughts of that prick having ****ed me over again makes me sick. This guy already owes me thousands in unpaid wages.

Bepolite

Solicitor required for more than one issue here.

Why didn't you pay it and insist on the money up front... never mind, hindsight 20/20 and all that.

Buzz84

Bepolite wrote: »

Solicitor required for more than one issue here.

Why didn't you pay it and insist on the money up front... never mind, hindsight 20/20 and all that.

Why didn't I pay it? Because he said he would pay it. I was never in possession of it apart from when I signed it and handed it straight back over.

We had met up where I told him, I was sick of it and wanted to leave. He asked me to stay on for least xmas, I agreed he then said he would pay the fine. Considering he already owed me a couple of grand already it was the least he could do.

Bepolite

Buzz84 wrote: »

Why didn't I pay it? Because he said he would pay it. I was never in possession of it apart from when I signed it and handed it straight back over.

We had met up where I told him, I was sick of it and wanted to leave. He asked me to stay on for least xmas, I agreed he then said he would pay the fine. Considering he already owed me a couple of grand already it was the least he could do.

Sorry but was it not pretty obvious that the guy was unreliable? Why didn't you take the fine and the money to pay it out of his hand and pay it yourself? If the answer is because he said he would, I refer you to the below.

Buzz84

Bepolite wrote: »

Sorry but was it not pretty obvious that the guy was unreliable? Why didn't you take the fine and the money to pay it out of his hand and pay it yourself? If the answer is because he said he would, I refer you to the below.

One he didn't have any money in his hand to take? Why wouldn't I think he was going to pay it. I was going to pay it but he said he would pay.{kind of peace offering}

Thanks for your help and advice :rolleyes:

Bepolite

My advice, which I did give, is to speak to a solicitor as soon as possible, which is the only sensible course of action at this point, in relation to both the fine and the money owed.

Buzz84

Bepolite wrote: »

My advice, which I did give, is to speak to a solicitor as soon as possible, which is the only sensible course of action at this point, in relation to both the fine and the money owed.

I dont care about the money owed, I'll never get it. I'm more worried about what he said in court previous like blaming me for not paying it etc.

brian_t

Buzz84 wrote: »

Why didn't I pay it? Because he said he would pay it. I was never in possession of it apart from when I signed it and handed it straight back over.

We had met up where I told him, I was sick of it and wanted to leave. He asked me to stay on for least xmas, I agreed he then said he would pay the fine. Considering he already owed me a couple of grand already it was the least he could do.

As far as I know you were not responsible to pay until your boss returned the fine (with you named as the driver on it) and the Garda reissued it in your name.

brian_t

Buzz84 wrote: »

Anyway I now have a summons for the traffic court up in town next week and not sure what to do or what to suspect.

You have no option but to turn up. Take the oath and tell the Judge your side of the story.

Your boss has obviously blamed you for his problems and the judge has had to give him the benefit of the doubt at that first hearing and wants to know what you have to say.

However I doubt that the judge will have any preconceived opinions about you or your character based on anything your boss said to him last September.

Pro Hoc Vice

brian_t wrote: »

You have no option but to turn up. Take the oath and tell the Judge your side of the story.

Your boss has obviously blamed you for his problems and the judge has had to give him the benefit of the doubt at that first hearing and wants to know what you have to say.

However I doubt that the judge will have any preconceived opinions about you or your character based on anything your boss said to him last September.

Why has he no option?

cerastes

Im not sure why the boss would be liable?
hypothetically, If the Op knocked someone down, would the boss be liable?
Id have considered the OP is liable all along for being the person speeding. I wouldnt be inclined to pay for someone elses error.
No offence OP, just cant see why the Boss would pay?
Them owing you money is a different situation and maybe the person strung you along with the intention of dropping you in it? I cant see how signing your name and driver number has helped??

was it your vehicle or the bosses, if so, then if you felt they should pay? why provide your details?

Buzz84

cerastes wrote: »

Im not sure why the boss would be liable?
hypothetically, If the Op knocked someone down, would the boss be liable?
Id have considered the OP is liable all along for being the person speeding. I wouldnt be inclined to pay for someone elses error.
No offence OP, just cant see why the Boss would pay?
Them owing you money is a different situation and maybe the person strung you along with the intention of dropping you in it? I cant see how signing your name and driver number has helped??

was it your vehicle or the bosses, if so, then if you felt they should pay? why provide your details?

I know I was liable but what your missing is that I had no problem with paying the fine I never asked him to pay it. The first I learned of it the fine was when I had a meeting with him to tell him I wanted to leave due to the dispute about money.

I agreed that I would at least work up to the new year, that also suited me as I couldn't just walk out on a job when I have a young family to support. He knew he had me by the balls. It would mean I would hopefully have some money over christmas and it would give me time to look for a new job. Then he said just sign it and i'll look after it.

I know I was ultimately responsible for it, I had no problem taking the points or paying the fine but I am now up in court possibly looking at a big fine that I seriously can't afford and at least 4 penalty points, im just hoping that the just might be lenient considering the circumstances.

Pro Hoc Vice

Buzz84 wrote: »

I know I was liable but what your missing is that I had no problem with paying the fine I never asked him to pay it. The first I learned of it the fine was when I had a meeting with him to tell him I wanted to leave due to the dispute about money.

I agreed that I would at least work up to the new year, that also suited me as I couldn't just walk out on a job when I have a young family to support. He knew he had me by the balls. It would mean I would hopefully have some money over christmas and it would give me time to look for a new job. Then he said just sign it and i'll look after it.

I know I was ultimately responsible for it, I had no problem taking the points or paying the fine but I am now up in court possibly looking at a big fine that I seriously can't afford and at least 4 penalty points, im just hoping that the just might be lenient considering the circumstances.

Everyone including you are missing a huge point, you have said no where that you are summonsed to court. You have said the boss told me to come to court, but I have not heard you say you received a summons.

How long ago was the offence committed?

Pro Hoc Vice

cerastes wrote: »

Im not sure why the boss would be liable?
hypothetically, If the Op knocked someone down, would the boss be liable?
Id have considered the OP is liable all along for being the person speeding. I wouldnt be inclined to pay for someone elses error.
No offence OP, just cant see why the Boss would pay?
Them owing you money is a different situation and maybe the person strung you along with the intention of dropping you in it? I cant see how signing your name and driver number has helped??

was it your vehicle or the bosses, if so, then if you felt they should pay? why provide your details?

In answer to your hypothetical question, in fact the boss would be liable, look up vicarious liability http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Vicarious+Liability

But in relation to the speeding yes the OP would be liable, but can the OP now be held liable, as he was not summonsed to court. There are rules as to how long AGS have to request a summons.

petes

infosys wrote: »

Everyone including you are missing a huge point, you have said no where that you are summonsed to court. You have said the boss told me to come to court, but I have not heard you say you received a summons.

How long ago was the offence committed?

It's in the last line of the OP.

Buzz84

infosys wrote: »

Everyone including you are missing a huge point, you have said no where that you are summonsed to court. You have said the boss told me to come to court, but I have not heard you say you received a summons.

How long ago was the offence committed?

He was originally summonsed to court in September I didn't know anything about this, his case got adjourned until October and he phoned me to ask me me to go because the judge wanted me there to say I was driving.This was according to him so like I said the guy is a chancer.

I said, I didn't see the point because I already signed the notice to say it was me who was driving, I also offered to get a statement signed in a Garda Station to say I was driving but somehow that wasn't good enough and the judge wanted me there even though there was no summons for me to attend.

I didn't know what this guy had said at his previous hearing and giving his track record I assumed that he was going to try land it on me , so I didn't go.

A week after the re adjourned court date I received a summons in the post to attend next week.

Pro Hoc Vice

Buzz84 wrote: »

He was originally summonsed to court in September I didn't know anything about this, his case got adjourned until October and he phoned me to ask me me to go because the judge wanted me there to say I was driving.This was according to him so like I said the guy is a chancer.

I said, I didn't see the point because I already signed the notice to say it was me who was driving, I also offered to get a statement signed in a Garda Station to say I was driving but somehow that wasn't good enough and the judge wanted me there even though there was no summons for me to attend.

I didn't know what this guy had said at his previous hearing and giving his track record I assumed that he was going to try land it on me , so I didn't go.

A week after the re adjourned court date I received a summons in the post to attend next week.

Is it a witness summons or a summons to answer a charge?

Buzz84

infosys wrote: »

Is it a witness summons or a summons to answer a charge?

I couldn't tell you to be honest but fairly sure it's to answer a charge.

schemingbohemia

Buzz84 wrote: »

I couldn't tell you to be honest but fairly sure it's to answer a charge.

Read the summons again.

Buzz84

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Read the summons again.

I'll give it a read when I get home from work

Buzz84

infosys wrote: »

Is it a witness summons or a summons to answer a charge?

This is what is says

Fixed Penalty Notice #########

With Reference to the above case, which was listed for hearing at Dublin District Court on the ## October 2013

I wish to advise that the same has been adjourned to Court ## Chancery Street, for hearing on the ## January at 12.30

Signed

Pro Hoc Vice

Buzz84 wrote: »

This is what is says

Fixed Penalty Notice #########

With Reference to the above case, which was listed for hearing at Dublin District Court on the ## October 2013

I wish to advise that the same has been adjourned to Court ## Chancery Street, for hearing on the ## January at 12.30

Signed

Without seeing the original that does not look like a summons. You need to get correct legal advice from a solicitor who can advice do you need to turn up on the day.

Buzz84

infosys wrote: »

Without seeing the original that does not look like a summons. You need to get correct legal advice from a solicitor who can advice do you need to turn up on the day.

Cheers for that