3 hour marathon

Huell

Right lads, my plan for this year is to break 3 hours for the dublin marathon. I have ran a marathon before but its terrain was fairly rough and got 4 hours. Im planning to build up leg strength and conditioning until mid june then start training then so what do you lads think?

vigos

Fair play for having the goal, but it's a massive jump from a 4 hour marathon to a sub 3 hour marathon.

Are you doing much running at the moment? Any recent 10k, half marathons that would give people on here an idea of your current level?

It also takes time to ramp up the mileage needed to do this sort of time and to that in a short time period will more than likely lead to injury.

There's also a sub 3 hr thread on here which should give you an idea of what's needed .

metamorphosis

Have you just ran the one? How long ago? What has your training been like since? Have you ran shorter distance races/ Whats your most recent race time? What cross training have you been doing?

The above will be an indicator tbh. Not that it is impossible but perhaps a more linear progression might make sense??? Maybe readjust your and work towards it instead of going from A-D instead of A-B-C-D. Not saying that you are not prepared. I just get the sense from your post that perhaps, just perhaps, you are not as prepared for it as you think. What marathon did you do that got you the 4 hours?

How much time can you dedicate to training? Have you looked at plans?

Its my goal but by god, its been hard - 3:34 - 3:13 and then this year the closest I got was a 30K race in 2:05:xx which would place me for a sub 3 but I couldn't have maintained that pace for another 12k or so.

dekbhoy

metamorphosis wrote: »

Have you just ran the one? How long ago? What has your training been like since? Have you ran shorter distance races/ Whats your most recent race time? What cross training have you been doing?

The above will be an indicator tbh. Not that it is impossible but perhaps a more linear progression might make sense??? Maybe readjust your and work towards it instead of going from A-D instead of A-B-C-D. Not saying that you are not prepared. I just get the sense from your post that perhaps, just perhaps, you are not as prepared for it as you think. What marathon did you do that got you the 4 hours?

How much time can you dedicate to training? Have you looked at plans?

Its my goal but by god, its been hard - 3:34 - 3:13 and then this year the closest I got was a 30K race in 2:05:xx which would place me for a sub 3 but I couldn't have maintained that pace for another 12k or so.

you sound like you know what your talking about and 30 k in 2 hrs 5 min is really good and your certainly knocking on the door for a sub three 3 which incidentally is my ambition too. sounds to me like you just need to increase mileage just like myself.......good luck in new year

drquirky

Huell wrote: »

Right lads, my plan for this year is to break 3 hours for the dublin marathon. I have ran a marathon before but its terrain was fairly rough and got 4 hours. Im planning to build up leg strength and conditioning until mid june then start training then so what do you lads think?

Start running now and see where you get to by April and then reassess? Tough to give you any advise without knowing any of your shorter times etc… A sub 3 should be achievable eventually for most people w/ consistent commitment but can take a while and requires a good work ethic in regards to training.

A 1 hour drop of your marathon time is a pretty huge amount. I'd be pretty surprised if you managed to pull that off in your next mara. TBH unless you are running something like sub 41/42 10k or sub 19 5k right now I'd be shocked if you go sub 3 in 2014. Running gains don't happen overnight but put the head down, forget about "conditioning" and just run and start building up to 40- 50 mile weeks and you may have a shot.

rom

Having gone from 4:30 (though probably should have ran around 4hrs) to 3:18 in one year with a lot of hard work I think it would be possible to go from 3:18 to 2:55 if I put the work in but I didn't. Going from 4 to sub 3 in a year of course is possible but for someone with a job/family etc then I don't think it would be possible. Its more about time to recovery than training.

menoscemo

Huell wrote: »

Right lads, my plan for this year is to break 3 hours for the dublin marathon. I have ran a marathon before but its terrain was fairly rough and got 4 hours. Im planning to build up leg strength and conditioning until mid june then start training then so what do you lads think?

If 'Building up leg strength and conditioning' means lot's of running then you are on the right track.
If it means something else then you are wasting your time (with regards running a sub 3 marathon).

viperlogic

A good guide for sub 3hr (2:59) marathon is the following according to Jack Daniels (not the drink!)...
5K - 18:49
5M - 30:53
10K - 38:42
10M - 1:04:17
1/2 marathon - 1:25:51

I'm also training for a sub 3hr marathon (Great Limerick Run). Good luck

dublin runner

Very doable but a lot of work. I would say focus on the shorter distances (5k,10k) for the next few weeks and months. It's a great target to have but realistically you won't know until later in the year (Aug, Sept) if you are on course. Get the leg speed first and then work on your endurance.

TFBubendorfer

viperlogic wrote: »

A good guide for sub 3hr (2:59) marathon is the following according to Jack Daniels (not the drink!)...
5K - 18:49
5M - 30:53
10K - 38:42
10M - 1:04:17
1/2 marathon - 1:25:51

That's a rather rough guide. My own 5k to half marathon times had to be a good bit faster than that for me to finally crack the sub-3 marathon.

What I do think, however, is that if your times are slower than these then you have very little hope of making it.

viperlogic

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That's a rather rough guide. My own 5k to half marathon times had to be a good bit faster than that for me to finally crack the sub-3 marathon.

What I do think, however, is that if your times are slower than these then you have very little hope of making it.

Each trainer is different and everyone is different also. Above is Jack Daniels, whereas FIRST says 5K in 18:25 as a guide. For me personally I'm faster over longer distances than shorter ones but started putting more work in my speedwork sessions to get my 5K times down. Currently at 18:55

Krusty_Clown

viperlogic wrote: »

Each trainer is different and everyone is different also. Above is Jack Daniels, whereas FIRST says 5K in 18:25 as a guide. For me personally I'm faster over longer distances than shorter ones but started putting more work in my speedwork sessions to get my 5K times down. Currently at 18:55

I'm guessing that you are looking at vdot equivalent times? Worth remembering that this isn't a guarantee system (i.e. if you can run 18:49 for 5k, you can run 2:59 for the marathon). The purpose of the vdot system is to provide optimal training paces for specific goals, rather than telling you what you can run across other distances. I have different vdot vales based on the distance I run. 1 mile vdot is 60, whereas my marathon vdot is 62 (tend to be stronger at longer distances).

viperlogic

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm guessing that you are looking at vdot equivalent times? Worth remembering that this isn't a guarantee system (i.e. if you can run 18:49 for 5k, you can run 2:59 for the marathon). The purpose of the vdot system is to provide optimal training paces for specific goals, rather than telling you what you can run across other distances. I have different vdot vales based on the distance I run. 1 mile vdot is 60, whereas my marathon vdot is 62 (tend to be stronger at longer distances).

Correct, vdot system, and yes, fully agree in that if you can run a sub 19min 5K doesn't mean you can run a sub 3hr marathon. 5K and marathon are two totally different animals.

Gambas

Sorry for jumping in here, but I'm sort of in the same boat as the op. AIM for the year is the DCM, and like the OP I'm trying to figure out how best to structure the year. 18 weeks back from the marathon is mid June, so what to do in the 22 weeks until then? One big base phase?

My experience from base training last year is not knowing what level I was at going into it, having taken a break, and being none the wiser coming out of it, and running a disappointing half marathon in April which was the main focus. However, once that was over and I started speed training I had a great summer over 5k-10k that I'm pretty sure was off the back of the base and half marathon training in winter/spring.

Is it just a case of mileage, and more mileage with a few races thrown in just for sanity? Or is there more merit in working towards a shorter goal race (10k/half) in April/May and then focusing on the marathon?

RayCun

I'm doing Kildare marathon as an intermediate goal. End of April, couple of weeks recovery, 6 weeks base building, 18 weeks to DCM

BeepBeep67

Gambas wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in here, but I'm sort of in the same boat as the op. AIM for the year is the DCM, and like the OP I'm trying to figure out how best to structure the year. 18 weeks back from the marathon is mid June, so what to do in the 22 weeks until then? One big base phase?

My experience from base training last year is not knowing what level I was at going into it, having taken a break, and being none the wiser coming out of it, and running a disappointing half marathon in April which was the main focus. However, once that was over and I started speed training I had a great summer over 5k-10k that I'm pretty sure was off the back of the base and half marathon training in winter/spring.

Is it just a case of mileage, and more mileage with a few races thrown in just for sanity? Or is there more merit in working towards a shorter goal race (10k/half) in April/May and then focusing on the marathon?

If you can improve your 5k/10k times when it comes to hitting your marathon training your marathon specific training paces should in theory feel easier.

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

I'm doing Kildare marathon as an intermediate goal. End of April, couple of weeks recovery, 6 weeks base building, 18 weeks to DCM

Hopefully I'll still get that sub 3 just before you and claim victory :cool:

RayCun

menoscemo wrote: »

Hopefully I'll still get that sub 3 just before you and claim victory :cool:

Are you running under your own name? You know it doesn't count otherwise

Clearlier

Gambas wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in here, but I'm sort of in the same boat as the op. AIM for the year is the DCM, and like the OP I'm trying to figure out how best to structure the year. 18 weeks back from the marathon is mid June, so what to do in the 22 weeks until then? One big base phase?

My experience from base training last year is not knowing what level I was at going into it, having taken a break, and being none the wiser coming out of it, and running a disappointing half marathon in April which was the main focus. However, once that was over and I started speed training I had a great summer over 5k-10k that I'm pretty sure was off the back of the base and half marathon training in winter/spring.

Is it just a case of mileage, and more mileage with a few races thrown in just for sanity? Or is there more merit in working towards a shorter goal race (10k/half) in April/May and then focusing on the marathon?

What kind of weekly mileage did you get up to and sustain last year? How do your times over shorter and longer distances compare? What have you done over the last 3 months?

If you never got over 40mpw then there's likely to be a lot more bang for your buck in focusing on slowly increasing your volume. OTOH if you got up to 80mpw and all of it was slow then you could focus on getting back up to 80mpw but with some more intense sessions included.

Then you have to factor in the amount of time you have available. I also think you should be thinking about injury avoidance particularly if you're in a sitting position for most of your working day.

You also want to consider the overall balance of your training. Ideally you want to be doing a little bit of everything but not necessarily at the same time. If your recent focus has been speed then some time developing endurance is probably a good idea and vice versa.

If you've done nothing for the past couple of months then at least 4 - 6 weeks of easy running should be completed before you do anything else.

If you want to add in more information I'll try and get a bit more specific.

Clearlier

menoscemo wrote: »

If 'Building up leg strength and conditioning' means lot's of running then you are on the right track.
If it means something else then you are wasting your time (with regards running a sub 3 marathon).

Meno has nailed it. I do think that there is a place for general conditioning as an injury avoidance measure but in order to improve as a runner you must definitely run.

Gambas

Clearlier wrote: »

What kind of weekly mileage did you get up to and sustain last year? How do your times over shorter and longer distances compare? What have you done over the last 3 months?

If you never got over 40mpw then there's likely to be a lot more bang for your buck in focusing on slowly increasing your volume. OTOH if you got up to 80mpw and all of it was slow then you could focus on getting back up to 80mpw but with some more intense sessions included.

Then you have to factor in the amount of time you have available. I also think you should be thinking about injury avoidance particularly if you're in a sitting position for most of your working day.

You also want to consider the overall balance of your training. Ideally you want to be doing a little bit of everything but not necessarily at the same time. If your recent focus has been speed then some time developing endurance is probably a good idea and vice versa.

If you've done nothing for the past couple of months then at least 4 - 6 weeks of easy running should be completed before you do anything else.

If you want to add in more information I'll try and get a bit more specific.

Very little done over the past 3 months. Early last year I'd have been on about 40mpw, but when racing began it would have dropped from that quite often.

Plenty food for thought there- thanks.

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

Are you running under your own name? You know it doesn't count otherwise

Yes, in my own name this year. I have my ways