Commercial Rates in City to drop by 20%

Smiley Burnett

some good news for businesses in the city...I wonder how the doom-mongers will deal with this??

geeksauce

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

some good news for businesses in the city...I wonder how the doom-mongers will deal with this??

Do you have a source for this info

7upfree

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

some good news for businesses in the city...I wonder how the doom-mongers will deal with this??

The doom-mongers who you hate for pointing out the FG discrimination against Waterford City? Funny - I remember a certain B. Ahearne uttering those very same words.

Yes it's welcome but we have an awful long way to go to be treated equally with our peer cities outside Dublin.

Smiley Burnett

7upfree wrote: »

The doom-mongers who you hate for pointing out the FG discrimination against Waterford City? Funny - I remember a certain B. Ahearne uttering those very same words.

Yes it's welcome but we have an awful long way to go to be treated equally with our peer cities outside Dublin.

when did Bertie Ahern reduce the rates in Waterford city by 20%?? That's a new one to me!!

geeksauce

geeksauce wrote: »

Do you have a source for this info

So no source then

space2ground1

This whole forum is so pickled with pro FG / Disagree and you're a doom monger that it's hard to distinguish good news from propaganda.

This is good news though. Would like to see a link. Not nearly as good as the news the other cities get on a daily basis though. We're so far behind its a joke.

7upfree

space2ground1 wrote: »

Not nearly as good as the news the other cities get on a daily basis though. We're so far behind its a joke.

The main problem. And some refuse to accept it or admit it exists.

Smiley - a quick question. Is that a 20% reduction on the old prices - or the hare-brained ones they're introducing? If it's the latter then it's a non-event really.

Some small city centre businesses have seen increased demands of 50% or more, while MNCs on the estate have seen a reduction.

7upfree

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

when did Bertie Ahern reduce the rates in Waterford city by 20%?? That's a new one to me!!

Ah, Smiley. Nice try. You know exactly what I'm getting at. Those who warned of the crash were ridiculed. Those who point out the FG demolition job of Waterford City are suffering the same fate. But at least we spoke out. Unlike the sheep.

Smiley Burnett

Approx 70% of businesses in Waterford saw a reduction in their rates following revaluation process...(of those that were facing a proposed increase, a large percentage appealed successfully to have them reduced)...this 20% reduction is A FURTHER REDUCTION and will see many businesses in Waterford see a large reduction in their rates bill...In fact this reduction is the largest ever seen in Waterford City...this was made possible due to the extra €5.4 million allocated by Phil Hogan this year to the newly-merged local authority....total amount allocated by the Minister is 30 odd million...

Sully

Fairly sure we have a thread about this already, OP. Was discussed before when Phil announced it IIRC.

O Riain

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

Approx 70% of businesses in Waterford saw a reduction in their rates following revaluation process...(of those that were facing a proposed increase, a large percentage appealed successfully to have them reduced)...this 20% reduction is A FURTHER REDUCTION and will see many businesses in Waterford see a large reduction in their rates bill...In fact this reduction is the largest ever seen in Waterford City...this was made possible due to the extra €5.4 million allocated by Phil Hogan this year to the newly-merged local authority....total amount allocated by the Minister is 30 odd million...

When limerick announced their reduction it was mentioned that they were the cheapest city to do business is after the reduction. Does this now mean that we are?

7upfree

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

Approx 70% of businesses in Waterford saw a reduction in their rates following revaluation process...(of those that were facing a proposed increase, a large percentage appealed successfully to have them reduced)...this 20% reduction is A FURTHER REDUCTION and will see many businesses in Waterford see a large reduction in their rates bill

Ah grand. So it IS a reduction on the ridiculously high rates which had been proposed. So a non-event in any instance. Amazing how these things are spun really.

Smiley Burnett

its a reduction on a reduction for 70% of the businesses in Waterford city...for the remaining 30% it means that the proposed increase is not going to be as severe

Adyx

Of the original list I saw (approx. 15 - 20 businesses) maybe 1 or 2 were seeing a reduction. The rest were all increases including 1 or 2 of over 100% in some cases. I'm sure those people will be delighted their only paying 80% extra instead of 100%.

Some_Person

There's going to be an INCREASE on struggling businesses during a recession?
Who's idea is this madness?

Smiley Burnett

Some_Person wrote: »

There's going to be an INCREASE on struggling businesses during a recession?
Who's idea is this madness?

a rates revaluation took place in Waterford city and county....some sectors saw a proposed increase in their rates, with the vast majority actually seeing a decrease

of those that saw a proposed increase, many were successful in their appeal.

If a business is struggling (and many undoubtedly are), once they show their turnover etc is down, then the proposed increase doesn't go ahead.

Sully

Adyx wrote: »

Of the original list I saw (approx. 15 - 20 businesses) maybe 1 or 2 were seeing a reduction. The rest were all increases including 1 or 2 of over 100% in some cases. I'm sure those people will be delighted their only paying 80% extra instead of 100%.

There are more than 15-20 businesses in Waterford. That's a tiny sample to suggest shows that a lot of businesses have seen a large increase in their rates. You would need to see the full list or at the very least a larger sample to be able to show whether the majority had an increase, a decrease and by what level.

Adyx

Sully wrote: »

There are more than 15-20 businesses in Waterford. That's a tiny sample to suggest shows that a lot of businesses have seen a large increase in their rates. You would need to see the full list or at the very least a larger sample to be able to show whether the majority had an increase, a decrease and by what level.

I never suggested it was a representative sample. I was simply posting what I had read.

Sully

Adyx wrote: »

I never suggested it was a representative sample. I was simply posting what I had read.

I assumed that was the case, but I wasn't 100% sure and neither was another poster who pointed same out (but the site crash saw them deleted!). Good to see

jennygirl

Adyx wrote: »

I never suggested it was a representative sample. I was simply posting what I had read.

heres a link to the current values of all waterford properties
http://www.valoff.ie/reval_cycle/revaluation_cycle_search.asp

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

There are more than 15-20 businesses in Waterford. That's a tiny sample to suggest shows that a lot of businesses have seen a large increase in their rates. You would need to see the full list or at the very least a larger sample to be able to show whether the majority had an increase, a decrease and by what level.

Let's see it then!!

Smiley Burnett

the figures are 70/30. 70% percent saw a DECREASE. 30% had a proposed increase. Many in the 30% category successfully appealed the proposed increase.

Sully

jennygirl wrote: »

heres a link to the current values of all waterford properties
http://www.valoff.ie/reval_cycle/revaluation_cycle_search.asp

You're clearly in the know and have close ties to local businesses. What's your view? Is the majority seeing a decrease or increase? Significant or otherwise?

7upfree wrote: »

Let's see it then!!

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

the figures are 70/30. 70% percent saw a DECREASE. 30% had a proposed increase. Many in the 30% category successfully appealed the proposed increase.

As 7up said, with all due respect, people want to see cold hard facts. I'm sure you're figures are right or close on being right, but people these days want some form of proof. Which would be great if it was available.

wellboytoo

Mine dropped 33% in the city area, was advised that if I appealed would not get a further discount.
that should read WILL drop as it doesnt kick in yet

Smiley Burnett

wellboytoo wrote: »

Mine dropped 33% in the city area, was advised that if I appealed would not get a further discount.
that should read WILL drop as it doesnt kick in yet

and following this week's city council meeting, you will see a FURTHER reduction of 20%!!!

jennygirl

Sully wrote: »

You're clearly in the know and have close ties to local businesses. What's your view? Is the majority seeing a decrease or increase? Significant or otherwise?.

most retail saw rises in rates, but we have lobbied local & national politicians and we are looking at a 20% decrease in commercial rates this year. Coupled with the revaluation of Waterford - a lot of business will come in on par with last year or a little below. Industrial estate will see up to a 40% decrease.
The City Center Businesses who have not been revalued in over 10 years will see an increase

7upfree

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

and following this week's city council meeting, you will see a FURTHER reduction of 20%!!!

So, if a person had received a 100% increase in his rates, let's say he gets a 53% reduction. It is still a 47% increase - at a time when businesses are on their knees.

Black Suir

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

some good news for businesses in the city...I wonder how the doom-mongers will deal with this??

T'was either cut Waterford city or raise Dungarvan's. I don't think any Fine Gael or Labour TD right now would have the balls to suggest the latter. And you could not blame them either for not suggesting it. We are one after the local elections, no more them and us when it comes to councils, and rightly so.

Black Suir

space2ground1 wrote: »

This whole forum is so pickled with pro FG / Disagree and you're a doom monger that it's hard to distinguish good news from propaganda.

This is good news though. Would like to see a link. Not nearly as good as the news the other cities get on a daily basis though. We're so far behind its a joke.

We only have ourselves to blame for that. If Big Phil did anything since coming into power was to abolish the councils and create just one. For too long there is a them and us mentality in Waterford.

jennygirl

Black Suir wrote: »

We only have ourselves to blame for that. If Big Phil did anything since coming into power was to abolish the councils and create just one. For too long there is a them and us mentality in Waterford.

all we can do is continue to lobby local and national politicians and show them we mean business. This means doing our homework on what is available from the government & EU - and looking for a slice of the action. For too long politicians and members of council are sitting on their laurels, paying lip service to the public and not doing a REAL job. When Big Phil and the big boys come to the City, a small minority throw eggs and shout abuse. We need to show them how "grown up" we are and talk to them in their own (political) language, about what we want and what we deserve to get our fair slice of the cake

Hoffmans

GRAND OLD HEADLINE claptrap :pac: with the local elections coming up and all that in may.
now lets read the fineprint how is all this good news being paid for wel the main contributer will be you through new water charges on private dwellings and no doubt a modest increase on the Lpt...

7upfree

Black Suir wrote: »

T'was either cut Waterford city or raise Dungarvan's. I don't think any Fine Gael or Labour TD right now would have the balls to suggest the latter. And you could not blame them either for not suggesting it. We are one after the local elections, no more them and us when it comes to councils, and rightly so.

Like in Cork and Galway? There will always be a "them" and "us" divided along GAA lines.

7upfree

Hoffmans wrote: »

GRAND OLD HEADLINE claptrap :pac: with the local elections coming up and all that in may.
now lets read the fineprint how is all this good news being paid for wel the main contributer will be you through new water charges on private dwellings and no doubt a modest increase on the Lpt...

Very true. In a week where we started to celebrate Waterford 1100, with a magnificent show on the Quay, what occupies the front page of Waterford Today? FG Press releases, with the Quay show relegated to the inner pages.

Unbelievable.

AdMMM

Just really reading through this for the first time. Talk about political spin, Fine Gael should be ashamed of themselves for trying to mislead everyone. The wool was definitely pulled over the eyes of those in charge of the Waterford Today however, or maybe they're thinking towards potential advertising revenue for the local elections?

In reality the headline should be "Slightly less than expected increase for local businesses" which isn't really anything to get excited about is it? In particular when you consider the art that Fine Gael have mastered that is telling people that things are going to be really, really, really, really, really ****, but in the end they're only really, really, really, really **** which is something we should be apparently delighted with.

Sully

AdMMM wrote: »

Just really reading through this for the first time. Talk about political spin, Fine Gael should be ashamed of themselves for trying to mislead everyone. The wool was definitely pulled over the eyes of those in charge of the Waterford Today however, or maybe they're thinking towards potential advertising revenue for the local elections?

In reality the headline should be "Slightly less than expected increase for local businesses" which isn't really anything to get excited about is it? In particular when you consider the art that Fine Gael have mastered that is telling people that things are going to be really, really, really, really, really ****, but in the end they're only really, really, really, really **** which is something we should be apparently delighted with.

We could say the same about you spinning here, Adam! It's not just Fine Gael supporters on here (though thin on the ground, I think I am the main supporter on here) commenting on political news and pushing their own agenda out front.

It's not spin - there is a 20% reduction. That's the figure. There was a cash injection, that's not spin either. Rates are being reduced as a result, that's not spin. No wool over anybody's eyes. Rates were increased for a small portion of businesses as part of the revaluation and now they (amongst those who saw a decrease originally) will see a drop in rates by a small but welcome percentage. That's the facts on the table and that's what the media are discussing.

Now if there was a 20% increase in rates, and that was the headline, I can't see you coming on here giving out that the media didn't run with a "Slightly higher than expected increase for local businesses".

Yes Boss

Black Suir wrote: »

T'was either cut Waterford city or raise Dungarvan's. I don't think any Fine Gael or Labour TD right now would have the balls to suggest the latter. And you could not blame them either for not suggesting it. We are one after the local elections, no more them and us when it comes to councils, and rightly so.

So a decision was made to drop the City rates in line with the County ones, to save face. Will this supplement be annual or will the new combined Local Authority have to find the deficit elsewhere moving forward. If it is an Annual contribution by Central Government - does that mean the Merger is actually costing money rather than the crystal ball savings that was mooted by FG?

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

We could say the same about you spinning here, Adam! It's not just Fine Gael supporters on here (though thin on the ground, I think I am the main supporter on here) commenting on political news and pushing their own agenda out front.

And there are others like me who have no political affiliation and who's only agenda is Waterford City. Glass houses and stones come to mind.

Sully wrote: »

It's not spin - there is a 20% reduction. That's the figure.

On a 100% increase in some cases. That is spin for those misfortunates.

O Riain

7upfree wrote: »

Very true. In a week where we started to celebrate Waterford 1100, with a magnificent show on the Quay, what occupies the front page of Waterford Today? FG Press releases, with the Quay show relegated to the inner pages.

Unbelievable.

Actually have to agree with you. The dominance of Fine Gael on the front page was sickining. Was like a propaganda machine in Nazi Germany in full swing!

7upfree

O Riain wrote: »

Actually have to agree with you. The dominance of Fine Gael on the front page was sickining. Was like a propaganda machine in Nazi Germany in full swing!

As we say in Waterford "There'll be a new moon tonight" (we're agreeing with one another!).;)

Smiley Burnett

geeksauce wrote: »

So no source then

:rolleyes:

Smiley Burnett

O Riain wrote: »

Actually have to agree with you. The dominance of Fine Gael on the front page was sickining. Was like a propaganda machine in Nazi Germany in full swing!

admit it---what really sickened you is the fact that the reduction in commercial rates of 20% doesn't really tie in to your narrative that theis Government is doing down the city!!

7upfree

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

admit it---what really sickened you is the fact that the reduction in commercial rates of 20% doesn't really tie in to your narrative that theis Government is doing down the city!!

WTF? Seriously. That's been flogged to death at this stage. Some businesses received a 100% increase in their rates bill. So it's 20% off THAT. Nothing to see here as they say. And the City IS being "done down" as you so eloquently put it......

I asked you earlier Smiley - are you a sitting City/CountyFG representative? No need to be shy now.......:P

AdMMM

It's Damien Geoghegan or someone very, very close to him.

7upfree

AdMMM wrote: »

It's Damien Geoghegan or someone very, very close to him.

Smiley?

AdMMM

Yup

wellboytoo

AdMMM wrote: »

It's Damien Geoghegan or someone very, very close to him.

Like in the biblical know him sense ?????

jennygirl

7upfree wrote: »

WTF? Seriously. That's been flogged to death at this stage. Some businesses received a 100% increase in their rates bill. So it's 20% off THAT. Nothing to see here as they say. And the City IS being "done down" as you so eloquently put it......

very few is any local businesses got a 100 % rates increase. i know of 2 who got "significant" ones - but they were no valued since 1985/6

im not sure if the new system is equitable, but most seem reasonably happy with it, and very happy with the 20% increase! A first for Waterford.

also - i believe there was money from government for non viking triangle capital projects too

jennygirl

and btw - This City of ours is what we make it
if your not happy - petition a local councillor - thats what they are paid for
Make an appointment to see the City Manager - he's well paid for that.
dont wait for other people to do it, stand up, be positive about our city,make a difference, and support all our retailers, festivals, events by going to them, not slandering them. the far away hills may be greener, but our city is loved by a few of us and thousands of tourists!

O Riain

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

admit it---what really sickened you is the fact that the reduction in commercial rates of 20% doesn't really tie in to your narrative that theis Government is doing down the city!!

My attitude is starting to change with regards to Fine Gaels downgrading of our city BUT there's still a lot more for them to do and it doesnt excuse the political bombarding they did on the front page of the paper.

ALSO!!

A month ago it was reported that the IDA were applying for planning permission for 25,000 square foot advanced technology buildings for Limerick and Waterford. What do I read recently in the paper? Only that Cork and Galway are getting them too.

It seems like 1 step forward 20 steps back all the time.

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

WTF? Seriously. That's been flogged to death at this stage. Some businesses received a 100% increase in their rates bill. So it's 20% off THAT. Nothing to see here as they say. And the City IS being "done down" as you so eloquently put it......

I asked you earlier Smiley - are you a sitting City/CountyFG representative? No need to be shy now.......:P

AdMMM wrote: »

It's Damien Geoghegan or someone very, very close to him.

In all fairness folks, if someone doesn't want to reveal their identity they should be allowed post away as such. Nobody is asked to declare their political connections / interests or details. I know both of ye and I don't think it's fair to disclose identities or push ye to do so.

(And this is from experience of doing so and the backlash that resulted)

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

In all fairness folks, if someone doesn't want to reveal their identity they should be allowed post away as such. Nobody is asked to declare their political connections / interests or details. I know both of ye and I don't think it's fair to disclose identities or push ye to do so.

(And this is from experience of doing so and the backlash that resulted)

It's one thing a private citizen posting anonymously (and in fairness Sully you've been dropping enough hints regarding my gender and job yourself here - breaking, no doubt, several boards rules in the process) but a publicly elected representative (if it is true) posting under a nom de plume???

Not acceptable really.