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iBeacon - Bluetooth LE the future of ticketing

  • 03-01-2014 3:11pm
    #1
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    In the past we have talked about how NFC enabled smartphones might be used as tickets on public transport, but now a much more useful and potentially revolutionary technology iBeacon is emerging.

    The problem with NFC enabled smart phones as tickets is:
    - Do you really want to be taking your expensive smart phone out of your pocket in a busy train station/street where it might be stolen?
    - Or how you might drop it and break it while taking it out?
    - Or how you might bash it accidentally against the reader?

    And then you still have the issue of time wasted rooting the phone out of a handbag, etc. No this seems to be far from ideal.

    But it looks like Apple now has a much better solution to this called iBeacon. iBeacon is just Apples brand name for it, it is actually Bluetooth 4.0 LE and it is also available on Android and Windows phones.

    It works by using an always on, but very low energy bluetooth chip in your phone to connect to other devices at distances up to 150 feet.

    The advantage over NFC is distance, generally with NFC you have the hold the phone/card right next to the reader. Also iBeacons can tell when you enter and exit their radius and how far away you are.

    So how does this apply to public transport?

    Well imagine you enter the DART station, your iPhone communicates with the iBeacon in the gate, the gate automatically opens and you are charged, all without taking the phone out of your pocket, you just stroll through :)

    Or on a bus, you simply board, no need to talk to the driver, the phone in your pocket connects to the iBeacon and charges the ticket price. As you get off, it registers this too and tags you off, refunding the difference for the distance travelled, just like leap.

    All with speedy boarding times, no driver interaction and no need to pull your expensive smart phone out of your pocket.

    While it is already available in all iPhones from the 4s up and many Android models, it will probably be a few years before it is widespread. But it looks like it could be the prefect solution to our public transport ticketing needs in lets say about 5 years. In particular on Dublin Bus.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,145 ✭✭✭Daith


    bk wrote: »
    Or on a bus, you simply board, no need to talk to the driver, the phone in your pocket connects to the iBeacon and charges the ticket price. As you get off, it registers this too and tags you off, refunding the difference for the distance travelled, just like leap.

    Wait what? I thought with Leap you still needed to go to the driver and "pay" the fare unless it's the full fare. How could it tell you what distance you travelled?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Daith wrote: »
    Wait what? I thought with Leap you still needed to go to the driver and "pay" the fare unless it's the full fare. How could it tell you what distance you travelled?

    With Leap you unfortunately do have to talk to the driver as there is no tagging-off on Dublin Bus with Leap (though you could, as is done in other countries like Amsterdam).

    iBeacons can do better. IBeacons can tell when you enter/exit their radius, how far you are from them (moving to/away from them) and the direction you are from them.

    So how it would work is:
    1) You enter the bus, the iBeacon in the ticket machine charges the maximum
    fare to your account with no need to talk to the driver.
    2) The ticket machine also records the location where you boarded.
    3) When you come to your destination and get off, the iBeacon recognises you are leaving the bus and based on the GPS location of the bus, works out how far you travelled and refunds the fare difference as you get off.

    Excellent solution to DB's problems. You only pay for the distance you travelled, you never have to interact with the driver and you never have to take your phone or card out of your pocket.

    Much simpler to use then even cash.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    Daith wrote: »
    Wait what? I thought with Leap you still needed to go to the driver and "pay" the fare unless it's the full fare. How could it tell you what distance you travelled?

    The bus would know where it is and could communicate this to the phone as you are leaving the bus?

    Anyway, it's a fine idea, not really much to discuss about it until there is an existing implementation of a public transport ticketing using the technology. Let a startup waste a few years building a prototype system and figure out what the limitations and pitfalls are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,388 ✭✭✭markpb


    How far is the range on Bluetooth LE? If you were standing at a busy bus stop, is there a chance that other buses stopping there could tag on accidentally?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    markpb wrote: »
    How far is the range on Bluetooth LE? If you were standing at a busy bus stop, is there a chance that other buses stopping there could tag on accidentally?

    Up to 50 meters, so obviously it would need to be designed with this issue in mind.

    It isn't major issue, because Bluetooth LE can tell how far you are from the reader and what direction.

    So I'd imagine it would only tag you on, if you came within under a meter of the beacon. Or alternatively it could do more sophisticated check, like first register you when you board, but not tag-you on, but then check 5 minutes later once the bus has started moving and if you are still there, only tag-you on then.
    Anyway, it's a fine idea, not really much to discuss about it until there is an existing implementation of a public transport ticketing using the technology. Let a startup waste a few years building a prototype system and figure out what the limitations and pitfalls are.

    Of course you are right, it is a cutting edge new technology and no one has used it on public transport yet, though Apple has started using it in it's retail stores for retail applications.

    However the cool thing about this new technology is that it is already available in a large range of smart phones (e.g. iphone 4s, 5, 5c, 5s, Samsung Galaxy s3/s4/mini/note/note 2, HTC One, Nexus 4/5, Moto X/G, as just some examples) and pretty much every new smart phone released this year.

    So ironically probably more people who board Dublin Bus every day have a phone enabled for this, then have a Leap card!

    So I think this technology has great potential and could take off very quickly. And thus well worth discussing and watching.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    It's a good idea but has several drawbacks.

    NFC draws it's power from the reader, so the cards don't need to be powered.

    If your phone battery died, your iBeacon dies too (unless it's powered separately)

    There's also a security issue. If your credit card details/personal/payment details are being constantly broadcast over a 50 metre range, there's little stopping someone connecting to your phone and getting these details.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4POOiVrdnX8

    NFC has the benefit of incredibly short range, and only turning on when the phone screen is on, also it's incorporated into cards and other disposables.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    If your phone battery died, your iBeacon dies too (unless it's powered separately)

    True, though in time I believe we will see Bluetooth LE cards that fit in your wallet and BLE enabled watches which might be powered by movement or sun light.

    This technology will advance fast.

    However at the moment, most people carry three things: a mobile phone, leap card and some cash/debit card.

    With this you would eliminate the leap card, but you would probably still carry some cash or a contactless debit card and you could thus still pay with these if your phone battery died, so not such a big issue.
    There's also a security issue. If your credit card details/personal/payment details are being constantly broadcast over a 50 metre range, there's little stopping someone connecting to your phone and getting these details.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4POOiVrdnX8

    NFC has the benefit of incredibly short range, and only turning on when the phone screen is on, also it's incorporated into cards and other disposables.

    Well first of all, these devices would never be transmitting your credit card details, instead it would just be transmitting your unique customer ID of your leap account that you would have pre-registered online.

    It makes no sense to transmit credit card details to a bus terminal every time.

    So at worst, they could steal your account id and potentially get some free travel until it was discovered, but they wouldn't be able to steal your credit card details.

    Secondly of course the information is encrypted during transmission. While that encryption might not be an issue for the NSA, it certainly should be strong enough to prevent attacks from standard criminals.

    Thirdly I wouldn't assume NFC is safer due to it's short range. Cheap devices have already been built with off the shelf components that can read them from three feet away:

    http://hackaday.com/2013/11/03/rfid-reader-snoops-cards-from-3-feet-away/

    Might not sound like a long distance, but the device easily fits in a bag, so easy to walk through a city and scan cards at bus stops, etc.

    For more money, you can buy antennas that increase the distance even further, you could easily scan thousands of cards while driving through the city center.

    So the important thing isn't distance, it is the encryption it uses. As BLE can transmit far more data, this means it can use better encryption methods.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    It's a good idea but has several drawbacks.

    NFC draws it's power from the reader, so the cards don't need to be powered.

    If your phone battery died, your iBeacon dies too (unless it's powered separately)

    There's also a security issue. If your credit card details/personal/payment details are being constantly broadcast over a 50 metre range, there's little stopping someone connecting to your phone and getting these details.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4POOiVrdnX8

    NFC has the benefit of incredibly short range, and only turning on when the phone screen is on, also it's incorporated into cards and other disposables.

    I've worked with NFC and I can assure you that is not how the security works. Data is encrypted on the card for each provider in profiles. VISA is one profile for example. LEAP is another profile. The reader needs the keys for a profile to decrypt the data. The keys are securely burnt onto sim cards. The technology works much like a GSM sim card. Thus you need a VISA authorised reader to get VISA information and a LEAP authorised reader to get LEAP information. There are very controlled secure methods for exchanging the keys between manufacturers and operators.

    iBeacon is not actually being used for payments yet. If and when it is, you would almost certainly have to approve the payment by unlocking your phone and hitting an OK button to authorise it. The retailer would need an Apple Authorised unit (with keys installed). Apple would love this as they could cut off VISA and Mastercard. Can't see it happening with my experience of NFC. VISA and Mastercard exert massive control over the payments space and the margins are tight. Apple like high margins which VISA and Mastercard could easily undercut due to their dominance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    NFC wasn't helped by not invented here at Apple and by wars between the carriers, handset makers and banks over the physical location of NFC itself
    http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/04/29/323774/mastercard-blames-carriers-for-nfc-payments-delays/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 LCMonroe


    Hi BK, I work for a transportation agency and we are interested in incorporating ble technology with our mobile ticketing system. Do you still check this thread bc I would like to discuss off line. Thank you!


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    LCMonroe wrote: »
    Hi BK, I work for a transportation agency and we are interested in incorporating ble technology with our mobile ticketing system. Do you still check this thread bc I would like to discuss off line. Thank you!

    Sure, PM sent, thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    The problem with iBeacon is that Bluetooth kills your battery so people leave it off. It's also not that fast to connect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,499 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    The problem with iBeacon is that Bluetooth kills your battery so people leave it off. It's also not that fast to connect.
    Even Bluetooth LE?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    Alun wrote: »

    Ah, thanks for the link. Can't wait to get bombarded with marketing crap everywhere I go now. :D


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The problem with iBeacon is that Bluetooth kills your battery so people leave it off. It's also not that fast to connect.

    Bluetooth Low Energy doesn't seem to have the same impact, I leave it Bluetooth turned on my iPhone 5s all the time now and it seems to have zero impact on battery.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    bk wrote: »
    Bluetooth Low Energy doesn't seem to have the same impact, I leave it Bluetooth turned on my iPhone 5s all the time now and it seems to have zero impact on battery.

    I have the 5s too and I leave it off because I've noticed a considerable drain.


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