Could you do without the FA Cup?

SlickRic

Paul Lambert held a press conference today in advance of the FA Cup 3rd Round.

Aston Villa manager Paul Lambert believes the majority of top-flight clubs would rather not have the distraction of the FA Cup.


Speaking before Saturday's third-round game with Sheffield United, Lambert was asked whether the FA Cup was something Premier League clubs could do without.


"I think if you asked the majority of them, if they were being honest, they probably would do," he told BBC WM.



"Not just because of the money but survival in the league is vital."


The Scot added: "It is realistic. That is the nature of it. If anyone says any differently then I am not so sure they will be telling the truth because the Premier League is the most vital thing that anyone wants to get into and we are no different."


Lambert's side are six points above the Premier League relegation zone and it is survival - rather than the visit of the League One Blades - that is his priority.


"Cup competitions, if you can get through, then absolutely I want to get through. I don't want to not get through but your main one is the league," he said.


"We don't have a massive squad and points are really important. If you are honest enough people will say the same."



http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25579811

fúck him tbh.

the day we could do without the FA Cup completely is the day the soul of the game officially dies.

Turtyturd

Nope...there is still something magical about it, especially the early rounds on sh*tty pitches in horrible weather.

brevity

To be honest, its sold terribly these days. It's almost an inconvenience.

They need to have the final in Wembly and the semi finals elsewhere. It should also be the only match on the day.

The_Kew_Tour

Get rid of replays and I think you see different mindset.

Daemos

Get rid of the League Cup instead

thebaz

the FA Cup has been in steady decline since the turn of the century - the CL has replaced interest in this old competition - i used to love it , but the reality is that it is on par now with the league cup , one cup competition should suffice , so sadly, I agree with Lambert.

ctrl-alt-delete

brevity wrote: »

To be honest, its sold terribly these days. It's almost an inconvenience.

They need to have the final in Wembley and the semi finals elsewhere. It should also be the only match on the day.

100% agree,


It is good to see that this year the Final will be the last game of the season, 6 days after the Premier League finishes up.

The magic is still alive, it shows itself every year.

FatherTed

Keep the FA Cup but we could do without the League-CapitalOne-Carling-Worthington-CocaCola-Rumbelows-Littlewoods-Milk Cup or whatever it's called now.

Dozen Wicked Words

It's alright, but it's no Johnstone's Paint Trophy.

Skid X

It died a bit the year Man United skipped it for the World Club Championships. And I can see why Managers would rather concentrate on the league

It still produces great moments, but not as many as it used to. Hopefully it will be around for a long time yet.

lertsnim

Get rid of replays and make the final the last game of the season again. Also they should go back to the semi finals not being at Wembley.

Neil3030

Are there any wigan fans who can offer their insight here?

Would they rather still be in the Premiership or have won last year's cup?

There's no doubt the owners and admins would almost unanimously opt for option A but the fans could differ on that point imo.

IvySlayer

Don't have the semi finals at Wembley for a start

COYVB

The full interview with Lambert is here http://www.freeradio.co.uk/shows/tom-ross/

It's not quite that he came out and said feck the FA cup or anything

LiamoSail

SlickRic wrote: »

fúck him tbh.

A bit harsh?

He's bucking the trend there giving an honest answer to a question he was asked, and in the position he's in, you can't fault his logic

Its a great competition to win, but the priority for premier league clubs will always lye elsewhere, be that in enduring safety, Europe, the title or chasing fourth. The media can bang on and on about 'the magic of the cup' or 'the greatest cup competition in the world' but the reality is that in this day and age, finances dictate that the priorities for top clubs will lye elsewhere

Refreshing to hear a manager ignore the hype and speak honestly

LiamoSail

Neil3030 wrote: »

Are there any wigan fans who can offer their insight here?

Would they rather still be in the Premiership or have won last year's cup?

There's no doubt the owners and admins would almost unanimously opt for option A but the fans could differ on that point imo.

I think the fans would see it as a worthwhile trade off, but it's not the fans that employ the manager, and for any manager, the perspective of the owner is what's relevant

SlickRic

i appreciate his honesty, but the glory of winning something should be far higher on the priority list of a football club.

it's sad to think the FA Cup wouldn't excite a lot of clubs or managers.

as much as Dave Whelan annoys me, his delight at Wigan's win last season was brilliant. would he swap the FA Cup win to have stayed in the Premier League?

i doubt it.

but unfortunately, there are fewer and fewer people in football with that attitude.

UpTheSlashers

The "league Cup" as we now know it, was originally established following the proliferation of floodlights in the 1950s/1960s to allow clubs to play midweek matches and generate a bit of extra revenue. With the development of European football and increased importance of avoiding relegation, the secondary cup competition has become little more than a nuisance for top-tier clubs.

A merger or reorganisation of the cup competitions is definitely necessary. Maybe premier league clubs could be given an option to opt-out of the league cup.

COYVB

SlickRic wrote: »

i appreciate his honesty, but the glory of winning something should be far higher on the priority list of a football club.

If you told him right now that he'd win it, I doubt he'd have any issues with it. His concern is that he doesn't want key players getting injured and missing league games because of the cup. If Villa make it to the quarters/semis and are looking okay in the league, you can bet your left nut he'll have a full strength side out.

At the moment that's a million miles off though, and he doesn't want to lose any more players to injury, so he's talking the cup down in case the kids get a doing

MaroonAndGreen

I love the FA Cup. But maybe im biased as Chelsea have won it 4 out of the last 7 seasons

But anyway its a great competition and tbh I like that there are replays, its alot fairer than giving a home team an extra 30mins.

iDave

Personally I love the FA Cup. I like the break it gives us from the league. Proper knock out football with no second leg business.
Do we really have to trample over every non EPL/CL tradition?

pickarooney

who needs the distraction of the cup when you have the perennial race for seventeenth to keep you engaged.

LiamoSail

SlickRic wrote: »

i appreciate his honesty, but the glory of winning something should be far higher on the priority list of a football club.

it's sad to think the FA Cup wouldn't excite a lot of clubs or managers.

as much as Dave Whelan annoys me, his delight at Wigan's win last season was brilliant. would he swap the FA Cup win to have stayed in the Premier League?

i doubt it.

but unfortunately, there are fewer and fewer people in football with that attitude.

I think Whelan is the exception, I'd struggle to think of another owner on the league who would adopt a similar attitude. Whelans a fan first and foremost

Prioritising the FA cup over survival or a top 4 finish, while admirable, isn't realistic. The rewards of survival or champions league football, coupled with the consequences of relegation ensure this. For fans,the trade off May seem worthwhile, but for owners and hence the managers they employ, it's not going to be any other way

mike65

Its a bauble at best for the bigger clubs, winning it and not finishing in the CL places is probably the worst combination of results possible for the next seasons league prospects.

KevIRL

Keep it but change it imo

Complete the League Cup before Christmas, do away with the stupid 2 legged semi finals to help this.

Then run the FA Cup as the midweek cup competition after Christmas, do away with replay's, games go to extra time and pens if needed. Make the semi finals go back to nuetral (not Wembley) venues and only the final at Wembley. Keep the final as a Saturday fixture.

SlickRic

if football clubs are purely a business, then of course the "rewards" aren't worth it if winning it means relegation.

but if, just for a moment, clubs are concerned with football rather than just money, then winning the FA Cup surely brings the reward of glory, no?

Wigan fans would not swap that FA Cup win for survival. I guarantee it.

GLaDOS

Put a proper financial incentive (CL place) on it and watch everyone's tune change.

Sadly the $$$ is all that matters for the most part. Not criticising it, but it's sad to see.

The FAI cup gets a bit more (relatively, obviously) enthusiasm back home because it really is the 2nd biggest prize in the season. 5th and the cup is far better than 2nd and runners up.

LiamoSail

SlickRic wrote: »

if football clubs are purely a business, then of course the "rewards" aren't worth it if winning it means relegation.

but if, just for a moment, clubs are concerned with football rather than just money, then winning the FA Cup surely brings the reward of glory, no?

Wigan fans would not swap that FA Cup win for survival. I guarantee it.

I don't think anyone would disagree, but you sound like you're writing the next verse to "imagine" there rather then dealing with reality.

Football, since it became a professional sport, has been moving in this direction. Away from pride, glory, winning etc, and on to money & business. I completely agree with you, in that its a shame that that is the way it is, but that's the reality. Of course the Wigan fans wouldn't swap the FA cup for survival, but their stake is primarily an emotional one, not a financial one. Anyone who's stake in a club is financial first and foremost, will favour survival over a cup, and the vast, vast majority of those calling yen shots in the top flight have a financial rather then an emotional stake in the club they control

pickarooney

how can you you seriously call the likes of Chelsea a business? it's run in such a way that even in its most successful seasons the club losses tens of millions of pounds! then you have the likes of Bolton who've run up 150 million in debts by simply pissing it away with no plan whatsoever to earn any money back. this is not business in any traditional sense of the word.

LiamoSail

pickarooney wrote: »

how can you you seriously call the likes of Chelsea a business? it's run in such a way that even in its most successful seasons the club losses tens of millions of pounds! then you have the likes of Bolton who've run up 150 million in debts by simply pissing it away with no plan whatsoever to earn any money back. this is not business in any traditional sense of the word.

Chelsea are hardly an example of the typical premier league club given their financing & the questionable motives of their owner.

Bolton are a good example of the consequences of relegation. How many owners do you think would be happy to suffer the faith of Bolton while winning an FA cup, rather then staying in the league and remaining financially stable

Francie Barrett

Can't say I'd shed a tear if it got done away with.

Fr Tod Umptious

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

The "league Cup" as we now know it, was originally established following the proliferation of floodlights in the 1950s/1960s to allow clubs to play midweek matches and generate a bit of extra revenue. With the development of European football and increased importance of avoiding relegation, the secondary cup competition has become little more than a nuisance for top-tier clubs.

A merger or reorganisation of the cup competitions is definitely necessary. Maybe premier league clubs could be given an option to opt-out of the league cup.

Am I right in saying the League Cup is a competition run by the Football League ?

If that is the case then should the Premiership not have been excluded from it back in 92 when they left the Football League ?

As for the FA Cup, well as others have said the rewards of premiership survival, getting to the premiership, or getting to Europe are the priority now, not the FA Cup

MaroonAndGreen

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Am I right in saying the League Cup is a competition run by the Football League ?

If that is the case then should the Premiership not have been excluded from it back in 92 when they left the Football League ?

As for the FA Cup, well as others have said the rewards of premiership survival, getting to the premiership, or getting to Europe are the priority now, not the FA Cup

Big clubs like United, Arsenal, Liverpool are going to be judged on the amount of trophies they have won though.

At the end of the day, in 20 years time nobody will look back at Chelsea's 2011/12 season and say "thats when Chelsea finished 6th, it'll be "Chelsea won the FA Cup and European Cup that season".

UpTheSlashers

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Am I right in saying the League Cup is a competition run by the Football League ?

If that is the case then should the Premiership not have been excluded from it back in 92 when they left the Football League ?

As for the FA Cup, well as others have said the rewards of premiership survival, getting to the premiership, or getting to Europe are the priority now, not the FA Cup

I presume the Premiership clubs were included or asked to participate on the basis of getting bigger attendances and attracting sponsorship.

MaroonAndGreen

Also to add to it, nobody will be saying "Arsenal qualified for the Champions League for 8 succesive seasons", it'll be "Arsenal didnt win a trophy for 8 seasons."

mikeym

Portsmouth won the Fa Cup a few years back and look were they are now.

If you ask a Portsmouth fan now would they prefer an fa cup or financial stability they wouldnt care for the fa cup.

mosstin

I find it interesting how football fans of various clubs have accepted without question the notion that finance is more important than glory. For the club, sure, that's the bottom line but as a supporter, I simply don't get how anyone would want to do away with the FA Cup.

SantryRed

You don't earn enough money by getting through rounds, such a disparity between it and staying in the PL/getting CL football. That's its main problem.

Also, get the semis back to Villa Park and the likes, and actually show it a bit of respect.

GavRedKing

Straight k/o and no semi final in Wembley and it would be a better competition.

Winston Payne

The semi-finals will likely be at Wembley until about 2020 and maybe a bit longer. The FA are gasping for paydays there with the way it ran overbudget.

Too Tough To Die

You're kidding yourself if you think Dave Whelan wouldn't swap the FA Cup for survival.

mosstin

SantryRed wrote: »

You don't earn enough money by getting through rounds, such a disparity between it and staying in the PL/getting CL football. That's its main problem.

Also, get the semis back to Villa Park and the likes, and actually show it a bit of respect.

It's the FA Cup and you're a football fan. Why do you honestly give a **** about the money?

SantryRed

GavRedKing wrote: »

Straight k/o and no semi final in Wembley and it would be a better competition.

No way, the replays make it. Also, replays mean more money for small clubs if they get them. Removing replays would kill it further.

5starpool

I like the FA Cup until the second Liverpool go out of it. I want Liverpool to be in every competition and to try to win it. I agree that the reality of the situation is that due to the money in the PL and the CL it it less important than it was, but I don't want it got rid of at all and still enjoy seeing my team do well in it.

Not everything in football should be about money, so keep whatever magic of the cup is still left, alive.

Arrow.

Think it's a bit naive to question Lambert on this; he's in a position now with Villa whereby they're not playing well at all and league position/survival is paramount.

Don't do well in the league - loss of money, possibly relegation (a bigger financial disaster), inability to attract players that will help move the club forward on the pitch.

Depending on how bad it gets for Villa this season, it could damage the clubs progress for years.

I'd feel the same Lambert's position. Don't see what the issue is. His primary job is to improve Villa as a whole, not do OK and win a cup. It's all about the long game. Great if you can do both, but they're not in that position right now.

There was a time when I had a lot of interest in the FA Cup, but that hasn't been the case in years. I watched the second half of the 2012 final (I more or less stumbled across it that day). That was the first time since the late 1990s that I'd watched the final, and I'd be very hard pushed to tell you which teams have won it in recent years.

Whatever sense of magic it once had for me is long gone.

nbar12

no way should they get rid of it! What about the teams in league 2, conference, non league? They play for those luxurious cup ties against the big teams which allows them gain some much needed revenue, especially in these hard times!

Give the winners an enhanced incentive.

Give a champions league play off place to the winners v the 4th place* (or something along those lines) and suddenly it becomes a viable competition.



* This would be harsh on the 4th place team however as a 38 game slog to nab 4th place is a tough thing to do. Maybe give the 4th place team the home tie or something?


Forward thinking is needed though and the FA being the FA that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

CSF

When you look at that interview and see they've quoted an answer without a question, he has very likely been taken out of context. Was probably just asked like a number of people in this thread have, if he would trade Premiership survival for FA Cup glory.

ArmaniJeanss

rarnes1 wrote: »

Give the winners an enhanced incentive.

Give a champions league play off place to the winners v the 4th place* (or something along those lines) and suddenly it becomes a viable competition.



* This would be harsh on the 4th place team however as a 38 game slog to nab 4th place is a tough thing to do. Maybe give the 4th place team the home tie or something?


Forward thinking is needed though and the FA being the FA that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Forward thinking or not has little to do with it - the FA wouldn't be allowed make such a change anyway. And theres no compelling reason why UEFA would change the qualification rules from being league position based just to satisfy some perceived problem with one countries domestic cup.

And in general it wouldn't be a sensible change at all it would likely do is lead to England only having 3 places in a decades time - because sending mid ranking EPL teams (or a Wigan) into a playoff with Napoli or Fenerbache or Schalke is a recipe for murdering your coefficient.

Maybe a year supply of free coke and blow jobs for the winners