NPPR charges

hnaman

Hi there,

My father inherited a bungalow in the country of Longford a good couple of years ago and we have only just heared about NPPR now and we live in England. This random tax that doesn't give you any correspondence and has a huge interest rate.

Assuming we can't feign ignorance, what is the thing that people like those in my situation can do?

It would be greatly appreciated if I can get any replies.

James.

snubbleste

You just have to pay.
Also property tax from July 2013.

hnaman

So you can't give me any more information than that?

snubbleste

All the information is freely available online
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87611230
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79429880

Your best bet is to contact Longford CoCo and enquire about installments

murphaph

Sad but true-no way out. The NPPR has interest rates that would make a loan shark blush. They are far far higher than the standard penalty rates applied by Revenue to say, income tax evaders, which to me is grossly unfair (no, I've never been caught by the NPPR nor do I know anyone who has, I can just see a draconian penalty for what it is).

hnaman

I suspect some way down the line there may be a case to reward for excessive charges like the banks in the UK had to then pay back. Though I am not a lawyer nor have any lawyers in the family, I will just need to do more research I guess

The_Conductor

You will have to register with the relevant council and organise to pay the NPPR and its arrears and penalties.
You will also have to register with the Irish Revenue Commissioners, and organise to pay the annual property tax.
You have no missed the deadline for the online payment of 2014 property tax- there aren't penaties akin to with the NPPR associated with the LPT- but you will have to pay it nonetheless.

It was widely discussed in the media, in national papers, online and elsewhere- feigning ignorance, even if you are abroad, is a bit of a stretch. Unfortunately there is going to be a little bit of leg work involved for you to right the little mess.

hnaman

I have found out that my Grandmother was in a care home until November 2009 and as such was exempt from that year of NPPR which drops it to e2800 instead of e4000. I will still make attempts to get some of the extortionate money back at some stage. Class action lawsuit comes to mind.

ted1

hnaman wrote: »

I have found out that my Grandmother was in a care home until November 2009 and as such was exempt from that year of NPPR which drops it to e2800 instead of e4000. I will still make attempts to get some of the extortionate money back at some stage. Class action lawsuit comes to mind.

You can't take class action lawsuits in Ireland

hnaman

ted1 wrote: »

You can't take class action lawsuits in Ireland

I will think of something, even if I have to train as a lawyer purely to sue the country.

L1011

hnaman wrote: »

I suspect some way down the line there may be a case to reward for excessive charges like the banks in the UK had to then pay back. Though I am not a lawyer nor have any lawyers in the family, I will just need to do more research I guess

There won't be - penalties for not paying a tax are not comparable with transaction charges.

All you would get by "suing the country" would be your €1,200 back.

hnaman

I would consider that a fair deal then. If it was e100 late fee each year then I think that would be fair, its the compounding interest which makes me sick. Anyway, I know Ireland is struggling but neither is Britain either, we are just trying the best we can.

Oral Surgeon

hnaman wrote: »

I will think of something, even if I have to train as a lawyer purely to sue the country.

Flip the house, pay your back tax and enjoy the surplus. I'm guessing that you never use it as everyone in Ireland know about property taxes and nppr charges... even guys living in the tora bora caves know about our new charges and taxes...

Training as a lawyer will cost more than €2800...

hnaman

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Flip the house, pay your back tax and enjoy the surplus. I'm guessing that you never use it as everyone in Ireland know about property taxes and nppr charges... even guys living in the tora bora caves know about our new charges and taxes...

Training as a lawyer will cost more than €2800...

Nope, everybody doesn't and my family is pure irish yet they didn't know about it either. So a fail in the lines somewhere, obviously BBC news doesn't talk about Ireland financial matters when we have our own to worry about.

Plus, the main thing which has annoyed me the most is that because Mum was saving up for windows + doors, the money would have gone into the irish economy anyway. I think i'd rather burn it than give it now but it's not my call to make.

The_Morrigan

When your Dad inherited the house did he not have the foresight to ask the solr dealing with the estate if he had any obligations to meet in relation to the inheritance?

Ignorance of the law is no excuse your Dad should have researched this at the time, as he didn't he must pay the arrears.
I don't agree with the high penalties imposed on this tax but I also don't agree with people thinking they shouldn't pay up because nobody held their hand through the tax obligations in Ireland.

Oral Surgeon

hnaman wrote: »

Nope, everybody doesn't and my family is pure irish yet they didn't know about it either. So a fail in the lines somewhere, obviously BBC news doesn't talk about Ireland financial matters when we have our own to worry about.

Plus, the main thing which has annoyed me the most is that because Mum was saving up for windows + doors, the money would have gone into the irish economy anyway. I think i'd rather burn it than give it now but it's not my call to make.

Sorry but it's up to you to know about your property. If I had a house in Alaska, I would try to keep up to date on changes in policy in Alaska....

Your mum buying windows from an Irish business is not the same as paying tax. I'd love to pay 50grand less tax and build an extension, sure it's going into the local economy- it's all the same....

hnaman

The_Morrigan wrote: »

When your Dad inherited the house did he not have the foresight to ask the solr dealing with the estate if he had any obligations to meet in relation to the inheritance?

Ignorance of the law is no excuse your Dad should have researched this at the time, as he didn't he must pay the arrears.
I don't agree with the high penalties imposed on this tax but I also don't agree with people thinking they shouldn't pay up because nobody held their hand through the tax obligations in Ireland.

At no point did I say he shouldn't pay up, the main thing is the compound interest. Just the obviousness of trying to catch people off caught is what annoys me the most about this whole ordeal.

The_Morrigan

hnaman wrote: »

At no point did I say he shouldn't pay up, the main thing is the compound interest. Just the obviousness of trying to catch people off caught is what annoys me the most about this whole ordeal.

Trying to catch them out?

He didn't pay the tax and is now liable for penalty charges...I'm not seeing what's wrong with this, it's the same penalty system in place for most services if you don't pay the bill.

hnaman

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Trying to catch them out?

He didn't pay the tax and is now liable for penalty charges...I'm not seeing what's wrong with this, it's the same penalty system in place for most services if you don't pay the bill.

You are kidding me? I know you guys are in the dirt but trying to say that compound interest is fair is beyond ridiculous statement.

So they don't send letters because they haven't got a computer system with addresses on it? How is that anyone elses fault other than the local governments. Right I am going to stop talking in this thread because obviously the Irish people are more about themselves than I thought.

Goodbye and thanks to anyone who was kind enough to be helpful.

The_Morrigan

I think you need to stop with internet warrior routine now.
Your Dad didn't investigate his obligations and now has to pay the penalties and arrears associated with it. This has nothing to do with the general Irish public, it is between your Dad and the revenue. Taxes aren't fair, never have been, never will, and I didn't once mention in my posts that they were.

The_Conductor

Just to clarify- your father needs to contact:

1) The local council to organise to pay the NPPR, its arrears and its penalties.

and separately

2) The Irish Revenue Commissioners to pay the 2013 and 2014 Property tax

The Revenue Commissioners do not collect the NPPR- that is between your father and the council. They do however collect the property tax. You owe a half year's property tax for 2013- and a full years tax for 2014. You're late with this- and there will be penalties- but they're not severe.

For 2013- you owe a full years NPPR alongside 6 months of Property tax. The NPPR was abolished though- so going forward its only the Property tax.

Its nothing personal- we all have to (and hate) paying these taxes. I pay council tax in London and property tax in another country too- its just part of life.

Please don't take the comments in this thread personally- people are a little increduluous that anyone could possibly not be aware of these taxes- the same concept applies in most countries- if anything the Irish rates, and indeed the penalties for late compliance, are vastly less than in some other EU countries.

You could have all of this cleared up in a couple of hours with your credit card and a few phone calls.

There is no point in blustering on about Class-Action lawsuits etc- aside from the fact that they're not recognised in Irish law, these are taxes that everyone who owns property in Ireland has to pay, its a fact of life- we all hate them, you can go on about them to your hearts content- you're preaching to the converted, no-one likes paying taxes.

The guys in this forum are knowledgeable- and if you ask the right questions, and don't offend people with your attitude- you will get a lot of useful information.

Regards,

The_Conductor

hnaman

Hi The_Conductor, a very helpful post.

The reason I didn't ring up was that it was already late when I found out about it, plus they would likely not talk to me because I definitely don't sound 60+ and my Dad is absolutely useless at talking on the phone.

We will pay via the website with the outlook of looking to see whether we can claim back at a future time. I think i'll give it to a charity if it is passed to me, as I have said to myself I will never enter the country again. Cheers The_Conductor, snubbleste and murphaph. I wish you all the best of luck.

My final farewell.

layadvice

I don't believe you have to pay nppr as long as you can prove house was unhabitable ie that you didn't have electricity connected to it

The_Conductor

layadvice wrote: »

I don't believe you have to pay nppr as long as you can prove house was unhabitable ie that you didn't have electricity connected to it

The OP at no point indicated the property was not connected to the grid or water supplies. The onus would be on the owner to prove this. If the property was ever connected- it is counted.

carpejugulum

Why not just sell the house, pay the arrears and take the rest?

hilarious thread

iguana

hnaman wrote: »

You are kidding me? I know you guys are in the dirt but trying to say that compound interest is fair is beyond ridiculous statement.

Oh come off it. I lived in the London Borough of Merton for just 2 years and paid quite a chunk more in council tax in that time than your dad owes. That's with every payment made on time and no penalties or interest charges. Nobody is saying that the interest charge is fair but it's not illegal and your snarkiness and 'oh your country is broke so you're gouging me' routine is misplaced. Lots of different areas and countries have all sorts of taxes and charges that can be excessive.

Questland

For anybody thinking of challenging the excessive nature of the penalties for the NPPR google the UK case of Trinity Mirror v HMRC (sorry it wont let me post a link!) which might be of interest as in that case the UK Revenue were required to back down on the imposition of a penalty which was regarded as disproportionate. It is a principle of EU Law that penalties must be proportionate. Question is whether €20 a month would be regarded as disproportionate.

Sun in Capri

OP you may be able to come to an arrangement to pay the money owed over a period of time rather than in one go.

My own house came under this tax in 2013. Like you, and I live in Ireland, I did not know about this tax until the radio ads when at that stage I already had interest to pay, the amount of which is an outrage. I paid the property tax last year so did not imagine for one minute that I would have to pay this tax too. The way the NPRT was handled is a sign of the times where the rein of terror is used. A lovely little country this.

I don't own a second property, am paying all the taxes on the one I do own and yet I am apparently not entitled to claim tax relief on rent I am paying elsewhere.

The_Morrigan

Sun in Capri wrote: »

OP you may be able to come to an arrangement to pay the money owed over a period of time rather than in one go.

My own house came under this tax in 2013. Like you, and I live in Ireland, I did not know about this tax until the radio ads when at that stage I already had interest to pay, the amount of which is an outrage. I paid the property tax last year so did not imagine for one minute that I would have to pay this tax too. The way the NPRT was handled is a sign of the times where the rein of terror is used. A lovely little country this.

I don't own a second property, am paying all the taxes on the one I do own and yet I am apparently not entitled to claim tax relief on rent I am paying elsewhere.

No one is allowed claim tax relief on rent anymore. It was killed off in a budget a few years ago.

D3PO

Sun in Capri wrote: »

My own house came under this tax in 2013. Like you, and I live in Ireland, I did not know about this tax until the radio ads when at that stage I already had interest to pay, the amount of which is an outrage.

THe outrage is actually that you didnt take the time to understand your legal obligations. Ignorance is not an excuse.