ATH Semi-final 1: thebostoncrab vs Machismo Fan

Bounty Hunter

time for our first Semi final as thebostoncrab takes on the boards.ie MFer aka Machismo Fan...

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

Q: How would you book the next PPV (The Rumble) including results?


after your first post: why would your choice be better than your oponents?

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so have at it and g'luck lads![/QUOTE]

thebostoncrab

Machismo Fan

If Vince was to give me the call tomorrow to book the Rumble, the idea I would present to him would go something like this:

In the build up to the Rumble, there would be a few focus points:

- The rise of Big E.
- AJ Lee becoming the longest reigning Divas champion
- The WWE Undisputed Championship
- The WWE Tag Team Championship
- The Rumble match and setting up 'Mania.

Intercontinental Championship:

Fandango vs. Big E.

This match is already happening, and will serve more or less as both filler for the card, and to showcase the strength of Big E. This will be fairly one sided with Big E coming out on top.

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Divas Championship:

Very simple here, I would allow AJ to progress to the record of longest reigning Divas champion. But the week before the record, she would face Nattie once more, with Nattie just about to get the win before Snuka helps AJ with the cheap victory. She would be furious at her loss, especially with these tactics. AJ would also inform her that Nattie has had enough chances against her, all the roster has. She thinks that she has showcased that she is the greatest diva of all time, and no one can stand in her way. She is so convident of this, that at the Rumble, she will issue an open challenge to any former diva, to come and try stop her. At the Rumble, the challenge will be answered by the returning Mickie James. AJ will beat James but once again thanks to cheap tactics with Snuka. This will be the begining of a programme between the two.

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WWE Tag Team Championship

The Real Americans will challenge the Rhodes Brothers for the belts at the Rumble. It will be a competitive match up, with The Real Americans getting the win due to an injury on Goldust. This will result in the brothers having to wait for their rematch, bumping up the Uso's as number one contenders at Elimination Chamber. The point of this is to build up to a three way lader match at 'Mania between the three teams.

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WWE Championship


Simple booking for this one, Cena wants his rematch against Orton. He is owed it. HHH and co have put a stipulation into the mix, Cena will not be allowed another shot at Orton after this. Cena knows that not only will this be his last shot at the title in a long time, but also cost him appearing in the main event of Wrestlemania. Cena almost has Ortons number, when Batista comes down, after revealing on Raw that he has returned to assist HHH with working along Orton. The point of the match is to keep the belt on Orton and keep Cena away from the title at 'Mania and have a valid reason for him not to be going after it. Why? Because the next night he will talk about what he has to do to show everyone who he is, and that is by taking on The Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

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The Rumble Match

In the weeks building up to the Rumble, a few names will be telling the world why they will be winning the match up:

- Daniel Bryan wants to win because he deserves a shot against Orton at the biggest stage of them all. It's what the fans want and it's what they deserve.
- CM Punk wants to win because the face of the WWE should also be the voice of the WWE. Punk will also highlight that winning the rumble and main eventing 'Mania are the only things left on this checklist, so two birds with one stone.
- Roman Reigns will be entering the Rumble with massive momentum. He will walk over several other wrestlers.
- Batista is going into this for one reason; to keep Bryan away from winning, and to ensure that come 'Mania, Orton is still the face of the WWE. It's why HHH hired him again.


HHH will fix it so Bryan will come into the rumble at number 1, with number 2 being Luke Harper and number 3 being Rowan. Bryan would eliminate both men with ease, with Kane entering at number 4. Bryan would be reluctant to fight Kane due to their past, but would be pushed to the limit by his former tag partner. At this stage the match would fill up with men, including Ambrose, until number 12 beings Reigns. Reigns would clean house of everyone except Bryan (Who is recovering in a slump in the corner) and Ambrose. Dean and Reigns would post together before Ambrose almost eliminates Reigns. Reigns will however hold onto the ropes without Ambrose noticing, causing Reigns to snap and eliminate Ambrose. The match will fill up more with Punk entering at 18 and Batista at 20. There would be the usual nostalgia pops, but before number 26 Batista would become eliminated by Bryan. HHH will come out, livid, and as number 26 makes their way out to the ring (The NXT contest who won a shot), HHH would grab them and hit them with the pedigree, taking their spot in the match. But as he runs in, he is very quickly eliminated by Bryan. The match would carry on and at 30 Brock Lesnar would make his return. The final 4 in the match would be Bryan, Punk, Reigns and Lesnar.

Reigns would be out first at the hands of Lesnar, followed by Punk. Lesnar would go to throw Bryan out, but despite being battered and tired he won't quit and brings the fight to Lesnar, at one stage reversing an F5 attempt into a Yes-Lock. Bryan would fight through and become the winner of the Rumble, setting up his title match against Orton at Wrestlemania.

Machismo Fan

So for me the Rumble should be all about setting things up for WrestleMania. And one of my big problems with 'Mania lately is the over reliance on big name vs. big name matches so my aim would be to use the Rumble to help set up a big dream match as well as a bunch of matches using the bigger names and part timers to help elevate the regular guys.

Opener is Big E running through Ryback to retain the IC title followed by Ambrose beating Ziggler to retain the US title. After Ambrose wins, Big E comes out and each guy holds his belt in the air as we move towards a unification match at WrestleMania.

The Rhodes defend the tag titles against The Usos, The Real Americans and The Shield in a four way. Heavy emphasis on Cesaro in this one having an impressive showing uppercutting, throwing and swinging people all over the place (to build towards his much deserved breakout match vs. Cena at WrestleMania). Cody accidentally hits Goldust with a Disaster Kick and the Usos win the tag titles (who'll face the Wyatts at 'Mania). This builds towards an Cody/Goldust match at 'Mania because Goldust thinks Cody is trying to sabotage him (and the tag division is strong enough without them now).

WWE title match is the already hinted at Orton/Bryan/Cena three way. They have a great match but Bray Wyatt costs Bryan the title leading to a match between them at 'Mania to blow off their feud (where Bray only accepts the match if Bryan agrees to join them if he loses).

Main event is obviously the Rumble. Lesnar is out early and killing a bunch of guys before lights go out and the gong hits and Undertaker comes out to eliminate Lesnar. Batista returns and keeps on slugging it out with Reigns teasing their match at 'Mania. Goldust eliminates Cody. Punk is going well until HHH comes out and screws him. And Sheamus returns as number 30, with a final four of Sheamus, Batista, Reigns and Big E. Reigns and Batista eliminate each other and Big E and Sheamus do a big final two together trying to elevate Big E a little before Sheamus eliminates him to go on to WrestleMania.

I think this would be a pretty good show, teases or sets up a bunch of WrestleMania matches and tries to move some younger guys into spots that could hopefully elevate them. And sets up a WrestleMania card that looks like this:

Orton vs. Sheamus

Punk vs. HHH

'Taker vs. Lesnar

Cesaro vs. Cena

Reigns vs. Batista

Bryan vs. Wyatt

Cody vs. Goldust

Usos vs. Wyatts

Big E vs. Ambrose

thebostoncrab

Machismo Fan

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Opener is Big E running through Ryback to retain the IC title followed by Ambrose beating Ziggler to retain the US title. After Ambrose wins, Big E comes out and each guy holds his belt in the air as we move towards a unification match at WrestleMania.

Only problem here is it is already announced that we are getting Fandango taking on Big E, how is Ryback suddenly in this programme? You talk about elevating young guys, but by leaving Fandango out all of a sudden that really doesn't help elevate him. Instead Ryback, someone that both the fans and the office have lost interest in, is brought into the fold.

Also, while I'm more than sure Ambrose vs Big E would deliver, it just doesn't have the same strong story going in as The Shield cracking apart, as my event has done. Title vs. title is fine, but a personal story is always better and one that we can invest more interest in, rather than just "I'm the best, no I'm the best."

Machismo Fan wrote: »

The Rhodes defend the tag titles against The Usos, The Real Americans and The Shield in a four way. Heavy emphasis on Cesaro in this one having an impressive showing uppercutting, throwing and swinging people all over the place (to build towards his much deserved breakout match vs. Cena at WrestleMania). Cody accidentally hits Goldust with a Disaster Kick and the Usos win the tag titles (who'll face the Wyatts at 'Mania). This builds towards an Cody/Goldust match at 'Mania because Goldust thinks Cody is trying to sabotage him (and the tag division is strong enough without them now).

The Shield breaking up is one thing, as the tag team doesn't have to go away, just one member (Reigns.). Even if the tag team division is strong, it needs The Rhodes Brothers to stay together, because loosing a high quality team like that will hurt the division. Too often we have teams break up just for the sake of story. It's old and it doesn't need to happen (Look at how long the Dudleys, The Hardys and E&C stayed as teams. Breaking them up after less than a year would have done major damage to the division.) And before it's brought up that I am dissolving The Shield; I'm not, I'm removing one member (Reigns) and keeping the tag team itself alive. Heck, I'd even put Ambrose and Rollins into my ladder match just so they can show the world that they don't need Reigns.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

WWE title match is the already hinted at Orton/Bryan/Cena three way. They have a great match but Bray Wyatt costs Bryan the title leading to a match between them at 'Mania to blow off their feud (where Bray only accepts the match if Bryan agrees to join them if he loses).

Bray vs. Bryan at 'Mania? People are already hoping this feud ends now, how do you expect fans to maintain interest until April? It's not the type of feud that can last for such a long period of time.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Main event is obviously the Rumble. Lesnar is out early and killing a bunch of guys before lights go out and the gong hits and Undertaker comes out to eliminate Lesnar. Batista returns and keeps on slugging it out with Reigns teasing their match at 'Mania. Goldust eliminates Cody. Punk is going well until HHH comes out and screws him. And Sheamus returns as number 30, with a final four of Sheamus, Batista, Reigns and Big E. Reigns and Batista eliminate each other and Big E and Sheamus do a big final two together trying to elevate Big E a little before Sheamus eliminates him to go on to WrestleMania.

Sheamus?

You want to put Sheamus into the main event of Wrestlemania, and against Orton? Do you not remember what happened the last time these two faced off against each other in front of a Wrestlemania crowd?

You really want to risk that happening again at the main event of the 30th Wrestlemania? This massive mile stone of an event? The fans will absolutely **** all over it. Yes, he will get a pop when returning at the Rumble, but it won't carry through all the way to April. As much as I like the guy, he just isn't the person who should face Orton at Wrestlemania; not only is it too much of a gamble with the crowd reaction, but it would be a waste of a spot. You have a chance to finish the story that started at Wrestlemania 2 years ago, by having Bryan finally get his clean victory and the WWE Title reign and have that Wrestlemania moment that overshadows his loss to Sheamus that he deserves. Instead, you want to put him into a over long feud match with Bray and deny the audience of this fantastic, feel good Wrestlemania moment.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I think this would be a pretty good show, teases or sets up a bunch of WrestleMania matches and tries to move some younger guys into spots that could hopefully elevate them. And sets up a WrestleMania card that looks like this:

Orton vs. Sheamus

Punk vs. HHH

'Taker vs. Lesnar

Cesaro vs. Cena

Reigns vs. Batista

Bryan vs. Wyatt

Cody vs. Goldust

Usos vs. Wyatts

Big E vs. Ambrose

Wait wait, Cesaro vs Cena? Where did that come from? Do you want to break up another tag team? If you want to highlight the young guys, my tag team title match showcases enough of them in one single match up that will have fans talking.

And I know I keep going back to it, but man this should be the biggest Wrestlemania of all time, and you want to headline it with Orton vs. Sheamus?

My Rumble PPV leads to a card that is more deserving of the size of this years 'Mania, and one that finishes logical storylines, show cases dream match ups and gets the younger guys the needed show time.


WWE Title
Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton (c)

The Streak
John Cena vs. The Undertaker

HHH vs. CM Punk (As a result of Punk standing along side Bryan)

WWE Tag Title Ladder Match
The Usos vs. The Shield vs. The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Real Americans (c)

WWE Divas Title Match
AJ Lee (c) vs. Mickie James

Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns (Due to the rumble match)

And those are just the matchs that would come as a result of my Rumble PPV. We are debating over the better Rumble PPV, and mine not only delivers a great moment at its finish, it sets up for an excellent 'Mania.

Machismo Fan

thebostoncrab wrote: »

Only problem here is it is already announced that we are getting Fandango taking on Big E, how is Ryback suddenly in this programme? You talk about elevating young guys, but by leaving Fandango out all of a sudden that really doesn't help elevate him. Instead Ryback, someone that both the fans and the office have lost interest in, is brought into the fold.

Also, while I'm more than sure Ambrose vs Big E would deliver, it just doesn't have the same strong story going in as The Shield cracking apart, as my event has done. Title vs. title is fine, but a personal story is always better and one that we can invest more interest in, rather than just "I'm the best, no I'm the best."

I was entirely unaware that match was made, it's not on the WWE website. And Ryback is just a guy being fed to Big E (for the reasons you list above), instead of Fandango who does have more long term potential.

thebostoncrab wrote: »

The Shield breaking up is one thing, as the tag team doesn't have to go away, just one member (Reigns.). Even if the tag team division is strong, it needs The Rhodes Brothers to stay together, because loosing a high quality team like that will hurt the division. Too often we have teams break up just for the sake of story. It's old and it doesn't need to happen (Look at how long the Dudleys, The Hardys and E&C stayed as teams. Breaking them up after less than a year would have done major damage to the division.) And before it's brought up that I am dissolving The Shield; I'm not, I'm removing one member (Reigns) and keeping the tag team itself alive. Heck, I'd even put Ambrose and Rollins into my ladder match just so they can show the world that they don't need Reigns.

I think Cody has too much potential to be in a tag team long term (he's been stuck in teams way too much over his WWE career when he has break out singles potential) and what better than a WrestleMania match to move him on. The division will still have the Wyatts, Usos, PTP, Shield and side teams like Matodores and 3MB plus a less regular Real Americans. I think it's a bit of a waste to do the Shield breakup and then move Reigns on to something else so quickly.

thebostoncrab wrote: »

Bray vs. Bryan at 'Mania? People are already hoping this feud ends now, how do you expect fans to maintain interest until April? It's not the type of feud that can last for such a long period of time.

They've put too much time into the Bryan/Wyatts stuff not to have a proper blow off. And I think a match where Bryan could potentially be forced to join them has a lot of intrigue. Plus it's another case of a guy in Bray who needs all the help he can get and a match vs. Bryan at WM will give him that help.

I'm not a big fan of doing Bryan vs. Orton at this stage. They've done the match to death with way too many bad finishes that it's something people have seen too often, too recently and it left too bad a taste in peoples mouth. If they went a different way after SummerSlam last year I'd be on board, but not now. Honestly Sheamus vs. Orton is what I had left over after everybody else had something better to do, 'Taker/Lesnar is always going to be the selling point as well as positioning towards the future. And I sincerely doubt they'd have a match like the one earlier this year, mostly because of the much larger audience (diluting the concentration of smart fans plus it would've be a face vs. face match positioned as nothing but filler after Randy forgot his lines). They've had very good matches in the past and they'd do it again on the big stage.

While it does kind of radically shake things up I want to start elevating Cesaro as quickly as possible and a match against Cena (which would be an absolutely cracking match) would do that, he could still maintain a more lose association with Swagger. A lot of what I'm trying to do is put people with oodles of potential in positions on the Rumble and eventually WrestleMania that could elevate them.

I think the Rumble is nearly always going to deliver great drama at the end. And my final two seeks to raise somebody to a higher level aswell and the show itself will have a Ziggler/Ambose match which would be great as well as an awesome three way and tag title match. And I think it would make more sense to book a Natalya and ??? vs. Tamina and AJ with Mickie being ???. Just so you don't pin Mickiein her first match back.

thebostoncrab

Machismo Fan

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I think Cody has too much potential to be in a tag team long term (he's been stuck in teams way too much over his WWE career when he has break out singles potential) and what better than a WrestleMania match to move him on. The division will still have the Wyatts, Usos, PTP, Shield and side teams like Matodores and 3MB plus a less regular Real Americans. I think it's a bit of a waste to do the Shield breakup and then move Reigns on to something else so quickly.

But what after Goldust? Cody would have a hard time making a real impact at 'Mania season and the weeks after on his own, due to the roster becoming more packed with singles stars. At least if the tag team stays together it keeps Cody firmly in peoples vision, in a postive way and with little risk of getting lost in the shuffle. Just like with E&C, keep the team together until the right time for Cody to go at it alone and make a proper impact. Again loosing a team of this strength would do more damage than good. If other teams such as PTP and 3MB were taken seriously then it could be done, but there isn't a believable team ready to enter the main 4 (Rhodes, Shield, Usos and Real Americans) just yet.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

They've put too much time into the Bryan/Wyatts stuff not to have a proper blow off. And I think a match where Bryan could potentially be forced to join them has a lot of intrigue. Plus it's another case of a guy in Bray who needs all the help he can get and a match vs. Bryan at WM will give him that help.

Have the proper blow off at Elimination Chamber. Bryan joining them makes no sense and there is no way it would last long; it would have the same length of time as Cena in Nexus but this time people would be happy to see it be finished. I agree Bray needs all the help he can get right now, but at the cost of the Daniel Bryan swan song story? Not a chance.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of doing Bryan vs. Orton at this stage. They've done the match to death with way too many bad finishes that it's something people have seen too often, too recently and it left too bad a taste in peoples mouth. If they went a different way after SummerSlam last year I'd be on board, but not now. Honestly Sheamus vs. Orton is what I had left over after everybody else had something better to do, 'Taker/Lesnar is always going to be the selling point as well as positioning towards the future. And I sincerely doubt they'd have a match like the one earlier this year, mostly because of the much larger audience (diluting the concentration of smart fans plus it would've be a face vs. face match positioned as nothing but filler after Randy forgot his lines). They've had very good matches in the past and they'd do it again on the big stage.

The thing is, it has left a bad taste in peoples mouths because they wanted Bryan to win, not because of the quality of the matches. Each time fans have been getting more and more behind the match, hell that crowd on Raw last week was electric! Now imagine that at Wrestlemania, it would go through the roof and deliver the perfect ending to this part of Bryans story. Not only that but the WWE would have full faith that the crowd would love the match, wouldn't **** all over it and it would be a very high quality encounter.

Onto Sheamus....honestly you haven't presented a reason why this should work and why it is better than anything else on paper. I know you want Punk vs. HHH, but I'd scrap that match if meant Punk wins the Rumble instead of Sheamus. Heck Lesnar winning the Rumble, an idea I'm not crazy about, would be a much better result than Sheamus. I mean it's a guy who has been off the shelf for ages, had fans fed up with seeing him when he was sidelinded, and would be a huge risk of having a match that gets crapped on by the fans at Wrestlemania XXX. I mean watch that video again and tell me it's worth taking the risk on that not happerning at 'Mania, because it would leave a massive sour note on everyones tounge.

Machismo Fan wrote: »

While it does kind of radically shake things up I want to start elevating Cesaro as quickly as possible and a match against Cena (which would be an absolutely cracking match) would do that, he could still maintain a more lose association with Swagger. A lot of what I'm trying to do is put people with oodles of potential in positions on the Rumble and eventually WrestleMania that could elevate them.

Cena vs. Cesaro would deliver, but it's not a 'Mania match right now. In a years time with a bigger build of Cesaro yes, but there simply hasn't been enough time yet, and would be a waste of, what could the last chance of seeing 'Taker vs Cena at Wrestlemania, which would be amazing for the atmosphere alone.